Shape Soulmeld and saves

[Heliomance]

So I posted this question in the Simple RAW thread, but the lack of an answer makes me suspect RAW doesn't actually cover it. So I'll throw the question open to general discussion:

If you obtain a soulmeld using the Shape Soulmeld feat, and that soulmeld has an effect with a save, which stat do you use to calculate the save DC?

Does the answer change depending on whether or not you have meldshaper levels?

[danzibr]

Not that I'm supporting this by RAW, but I'd think if you pick a Totemist soulmeld, use Con. If you pick an Incarnate soulmeld, use Wis. If you pick a Soulborn soulmeld, use Con. If you pick one which is either Incarnate or Soulborn... use whichever is higher?

EDIT: Unless you have meldshaper level(s), then I imagine, for example, a Totemist who picks up an Incarnate soulmeld would still use Con. This I still can't justify by RAW: it doesn't say you add you add that soulemeld to your list, it just says you can shape it "using the normal meldshaping rules." Is the stat attached to the soulmeld or class? Then again, I'm rusty on all this MoI stuff.

[Pilo]

The RAW says p53 :
"Saving throw : Only a few soulmelds allow saving throws. The saving throw DC for a soulmeld equals 10 + the essentia invested into the soulmeld + the meldshaper’s relevant ability score modifier (Wisdom for incarnates or Constitution for soulborns and totemists)."

The feat give you a meldshaper level of half your character level but no relevant ability score. So by RAW, the DC of your souldmelds should be 10 + the essentia invested into the soulmeld.

[Psyren]

I would argue that "the meldshaper" in that calculation refers to the list you got the meld from. So Incarnate melds would let you use Wis and the other two would let you use Con.

[Kesnit]

The RAW says p53 :
"Saving throw : Only a few soulmelds allow saving throws. The saving throw DC for a soulmeld equals 10 + the essentia invested into the soulmeld + the meldshaper’s relevant ability score modifier (Wisdom for incarnates or Constitution for soulborns and totemists)."

The feat give you a meldshaper level of half your character level but no relevant ability score. So by RAW, the DC of your souldmelds should be 10 + the essentia invested into the soulmeld.

Unless the shaper is undead, they have both a CON and a WIS..?

[Divide by Zero]

Unless the shaper is undead, they have both a CON and a WIS..?

The problem is that it doesn't tell you which of the two to use.

I would say that it should go by whichever class the soulmeld is for, and if multiple classes can use it, you choose one of them at the time you take the feat.

[Heliomance]

On a related note, what happens if you use Shape Soulmeld to pick up one of the Incarnate alignment-dependent melds, and you have one of the corner alignments?

[KillianHawkeye]

On a related note, what happens if you use Shape Soulmeld to pick up one of the Incarnate alignment-dependent melds, and you have one of the corner alignments?

At a guess, you'd probably have to choose which of the two possible effects you want to use, either making the choice each time you shape the soulmeld or as a permanent choice when you take the feat (I'd suggest the more flexible option). You definitely shouldn't get to combine the effects of both alignments.

[Heliomance]

For posterity's sake, I worked out the answer to the saves thing.


When this feat is selected, choose a soulmeld from any class’s soulmeld list. You can shape that soulmeld using the normal meldshaping rules (see page 49).
(Emphasis mine)

I think what that almost certainly means, is that when you take the feat, you choose what class you want to shape it as, your choices being restricted to those with it on their list, and then you shape it exactly as they would - so, if you pick up an Incarnate only soulmeld, or you choose to take it from the Incarnate list, you use Wis to set the DC; otherwise, you use Con.