Seriously...we need to talk about this...forum big time

[CyberThread]

The DMG is going to have these things in it


Fire arms, explosives, and alien technology


These three things , are pretty varied and huge in their own right.


We could have laser pistols and firearms though in main D&D without digging up d20 modern or sci fi :D

[Ursus the Grim]

The DMG is going to have these things in it


Fire arms, explosives, and alien technology


These three things , are pretty varied and huge in their own right.


We could have laser pistols and firearms though in main D&D without digging up d20 modern or sci fi :D

Uh, DMG 3.5 also had these things in it.

Edit: Ah, my tone was off. I thought you were complaining about it, lol.

[Rfkannen]

I know! fire arms! this is going to be awesome!!!! I realy hope they reach the goal on extra life to release it early.

[mephnick]

I wonder what the firearm rules will be like.

Usually they're horribly broken (either meaning of the word).

Hopefully they're just treated as another ranged weapon and don't go into crazy stupid rules.

[Slipperychicken]

I really hope it isn't an awkward attempt to bring back Touch AC.

Also, I look forward to adding to the list of abuses for Minor Conjuration. Unlimited explosives could have a lot of applications.

[Fwiffo86]

The DMG is going to have these things in it


Fire arms, explosives, and alien technology


These three things , are pretty varied and huge in their own right.


We could have laser pistols and firearms though in main D&D without digging up d20 modern or sci fi :D

Sounds more like they are returning to Blackmoor.

[rlc]

me gusta mucho

[Scirocco]

Firearms = Xbows + dam. vulnerability vs. non-magic armor, bam.

[MaxWilson]

Tool proficiency (chemistry) + a tree + Fabricate = 10 tons of ammonium nitrate[1] = fertilizer bomb.

I know, I know, this isn't Shadowrun. It will still be interesting to see how this works.

[1] Yes, I know. D&D physics may or may not have atoms and elements like the real-world universe does, let alone ammonium nitrate with explosive properties.

[Slipperychicken]

Tool proficiency (chemistry) + a tree + Fabricate materials costing 1000gp or more = fertilizer bomb Alchemical Explosive.


Fixed that for 'ya.

[MaxWilson]

Fixed that for 'ya.

Are the firearm/explosive rules out now, or are you just guessing?

[Rfkannen]

I need to play a ranger with a shotgun. I have no idea who that I know would let me do that, but I have to.

[Slipperychicken]

Are the firearm/explosive rules out now, or are you just guessing?

It's just how things worked back in 3.5. They wouldn't let us craft things like bombs without tacking on a hefty price-tag. That's generally how they balance things; either make it cost a lot, or give it limited uses per day.

[CyberThread]

It's just how things worked back in 3.5. They wouldn't let us craft things like bombs without tacking on a hefty price-tag. That's generally how they balance things; either make it cost a lot, or give it limited uses per day.



With all that gold I have nothing to spend on..boom booms it is

[JoeJ]

Firearms will be fantastic if done right, but based on past versions I'm not hopefully they will be. Guns should not be treated like other weapons, because in the kinds of fantasy where guns are a thing (Pirates of the Caribbean, for example), that's not how they work. Guns in fantasy are not particularly accurate and you can't reload in combat so you only get one shot, but the effect is basically SOD. A hero can take on a score of mooks with swords and not break a sweat, but a single enemy with a gun, even completely untrained, is a deadly threat. The one shot limitation goes away if you advance the technology (Weird West, maybe, or Weird War II), but they're largely SOD weapons, and not particularly accurate when fired by mooks (who all seem to be graduates of the Imperial Stormtrooper School of Marksmanship).

[MaxWilson]

Firearms will be fantastic if done right, but based on past versions I'm not hopefully they will be. Guns should not be treated like other weapons, because in the kinds of fantasy where guns are a thing (Pirates of the Caribbean, for example), that's not how they work. Guns in fantasy are not particularly accurate and you can't reload in combat so you only get one shot, but the effect is basically SOD. A hero can take on a score of mooks with swords and not break a sweat, but a single enemy with a gun, even completely untrained, is a deadly threat. The one shot limitation goes away if you advance the technology (Weird West, maybe, or Weird War II), but they're largely SOD weapons, and not particularly accurate when fired by mooks (who all seem to be graduates of the Imperial Stormtrooper School of Marksmanship).

Can you name a fantasy movie in which longbows are not also SOD?

[JoeJ]

Can you name a fantasy movie in which longbows are not also SOD?

Not off the top of my head, but redoing bows (and crossbows for that matter) wasn't a part of this thread.

[MaxWilson]

Not off the top of my head, but redoing bows (and crossbows for that matter) wasn't a part of this thread.

"Doing guns right," however, is, and it was your contention that guns should be treated differently from bows because that's how the fantasy genre treats them. I'm asking you to support/test your hypothesis.

I'd be perfectly happy if firearms were just like bows, but cheaper (though D&D arrows are already pretty cheap) and eventually with longer range and a higher rate of fire. But then I lean simulationist.

[Rfkannen]

Firearms will be fantastic if done right, but based on past versions I'm not hopefully they will be. Guns should not be treated like other weapons, because in the kinds of fantasy where guns are a thing (Pirates of the Caribbean, for example), that's not how they work. Guns in fantasy are not particularly accurate and you can't reload in combat so you only get one shot, but the effect is basically SOD. A hero can take on a score of mooks with swords and not break a sweat, but a single enemy with a gun, even completely untrained, is a deadly threat. The one shot limitation goes away if you advance the technology (Weird West, maybe, or Weird War II), but they're largely SOD weapons, and not particularly accurate when fired by mooks (who all seem to be graduates of the Imperial Stormtrooper School of Marksmanship).


I heard there useing hte guns for more of a sci fi thing, and as such will probably have them not be 1 shot kills.

[badintel]

I'm digging this threat, but I feel kinda dumb...what does SOD mean?

[MaxWilson]

I'm digging this threat, but I feel kinda dumb...what does SOD mean?

Sorry, it means Save-or-Die.

Save-or-die is pretty much a genre convention for all fantasy weapons. Aside from Boromir and that orc he was fighting, I can't think of anyone in LotR (for example) who got hit with a weapon and didn't immediately die. I'm sure there are one or two I've forgotten, but my point is that for the most part you're either untouched or you're dead, no one is wounded unless it's to cut off an arm for gore effect.

[Urpriest]

I heard there useing hte guns for more of a sci fi thing, and as such will probably have them not be 1 shot kills.

This. Guns in (old-school, and therefore probably 5e) D&D are for Expedition to the Barrier Peaks-style stuff. You wander across a fallen spaceship, pick up some lasers, and get to feel like big shots for a bit until the DM takes them away.

[badintel]

it means Save-or-Die..

Awesome, thanks...helps eliminate my confusion!

[Rfkannen]

Oh yeah they were reached! so now they rose the goal by 25k but havent made new rewards, que?

[Finieous]

This. Guns in (old-school, and therefore probably 5e) D&D are for Expedition to the Barrier Peaks-style stuff. You wander across a fallen spaceship, pick up some lasers, and get to feel like big shots for a bit until the DM takes them away.

Power cell runs out. :(

[JoeJ]

"Doing guns right," however, is, and it was your contention that guns should be treated differently from bows because that's how the fantasy genre treats them. I'm asking you to support/test your hypothesis.

I'd be perfectly happy if firearms were just like bows, but cheaper (though D&D arrows are already pretty cheap) and eventually with longer range and a higher rate of fire. But then I lean simulationist.

My contention was that I want guns to be done differently from other weapons. I didn't say anything specifically about bows until you brought it up. The rest of my post was about how I think guns should be handed, based on how they appear in fantasy. What you call my "hypothesis" is simply my preference, which is not the sort of thing that can be supported or tested (nor does it need to be).

In any case, it's moot now. The preview has been released and guns are treated the way I expected them to be, rather than the way I wanted them to be. Now it's up to each DM to use them as is, house rule them, or simply ban them.

[Slipperychicken]

In any case, it's moot now. The preview has been released and guns are treated the way I expected them to be, rather than the way I wanted them to be. Now it's up to each DM to use them as is, house rule them, or simply ban them.

Is that an issue? It seems like part of the design philosophy to treat every variant-rule that way.


Power cell runs out. :(

In another thread, I realized one could use the Minor Conjuration ability at Wizard(Conjurer) level 2 to effectively make unlimited power cells, but only have one at a time.