Can someone please help me with LA buy off?

[Stygofthedump]

So, got killed again, reincarnated as a hobgoblin. Char had 58800 Xp and our table rules when you lose a level you stay at the same percentage toward the next level.

So I went from lv 11 to lv 9 as hobgoblin is +1LA ok so far?

DM allows LA buy off immediately when this happens. Do I need to pay even more xp to buy off?

How many? What if this drops me to lv 8?

Bit of a smashing knocked from lv 11 to lv 8 if this is true...

Thanks in advance team...

[Jowgen]

Depending on how much Exp you have over that required to be level 9, you might indeed loose another character level. The main factor here is whether your DM rules that you buy the LA off a 9th level, or retroactively at 3rd level; as the EXP that you have to pay only cares about your ECL at the level at which you do the buy-off. If you buy it off as a 9th level character, it'll cost a whole 9000 gp, while buying it off as a 3rd level character would only have been 3000 (either might take you down a level, if not 2).

I'd certainly make a case for the latter, really; but your DM is in his right to rule either.

[Andezzar]

By RAW you cannot do that this late. You have to do the buy off when you are about to take your (LA*3)th level, not including RHD. So whatever your DM does, we cannot help you, because we do not know his houserules.

Normally it costs an LA +1, 0RHD 3000 XP and those would have to be spent as soon as the character has more then 6000 XP (i.e. would become ECL 4).

[Hurnn]

It actually doesn't say you have to do it immediately when you become eligible.

[Andezzar]

It actually doesn't say you have to do it immediately when you become eligible.
The rules for the XP cost explicitly say so:

The payment must be made immediately upon becoming eligible to reduce the character's level adjustment.

[arkangel111]

Maybe I'm missing something, but Reincarnate says nothing about LA needing to be bought off. I see that hobgoblin isn't on the list so, houserule maybe? Also, since you are being reincarnated and already behind the party in XP I would just try to talk the DM out of even having the LA count against you in the first place especially since you are not really abusing the reincarnate.

Lastly if hobgoblin was a choice, show him that reincarnate doesn't make a bugbear pay LA and it is in every way better than the hobgoblin and has the same LA. My one time being reincarnated was as a Druid and it was under the old table and I managed to get a wolverine, LA wasn't a factor but even if it was my DM would have ignored it anyways since its a special case. Would the wizard gain LA if he PAO'd into a hobgoblin? The Psion? pulling the mindswap trick? Spells make even the rules behave differently and this spell is no exception. LA is strictly for building the character initially and is not a factor in spell effects, despite the advantages it could bring. LA is there to help keep characters from being too powerful in the early levels, and other than some template stacking possibilities, LA is almost meaningless at the mid-upper levels and is in fact a hindrance in most cases, which is likely why its also not listed in the spell description as part of the requirement.

Think about it like this:
Party is level 11 and I die.
I get reincarnated as a lvl 10 Bugbear. (1/2 xp to next level, no ECL)
The spell description does not say that I lose 2 levels to make up for the +1 LA granted by Bugbear, and it also doesn't call out gaining the LA+1.
The spell specifically calls out gaining the abilities of the associated form, but last i checked LA+1 is not an ability


Alternatively what if I was a bugbear first? (whether you pay off the LA or not you lose a level not an ECL)
I am level 10(+1LA) and I die
Reincarnated as a lvl 9 human (+0 LA) (1/2 xp to next level)
Since reincarnate calls out the level not the effective level I would essentially lose 2 levels from the death, Harsh I know but its what the rules say, and I would argue what the RAI is as well. Reincarnate is a powerful, lower level resurrection, it has good and bad qualities.

The Pro of Reincarnate? You can gain an ECL thus nullifying the loss.
The Con? unlike other similar spells there is no way to get rid of the level loss.


I used my google-fu to find an official answer but it failed me. Personally I wouldn't count the LA for good or bad at least if your rolling it, its just the luck of the dice. By picking a race I would only require that the powerlevel of the new race be in line with those already on the list, which hobgoblin is, so I wouldn't penalize it either.

I don't claim to have full knowledge of the system but I can't find an official ruling, so I would default to RAI which to me says the same thing as RAW in this instance.

my 2cp

[Troacctid]

Reincarnating as a race with a level adjustment doesn't make you lose an extra level on top of the one you normally lose. It reduces your level; it doesn't say anything about your ECL. In this case you should go from level 11 to level 10 with +1 LA. This is still quite unfortunate as it means you won't get the faster xp gain to help you catch up, but it could be worse.

[Andezzar]

Exactly. Also LA is not a feature of reincarnate, it is a feature of the race. Regardless how you became a member of that race, you get all the features of the race that includes LA.

[Stygofthedump]

i ageee. i think you lose a level for the death and then pay buy off to adjust for ECL, sounds more than fair
thanks guys