"I turn my arms into spiked chains!" An interesting Monk/spell effect deal

[Oko and Qailee]

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong about this. So first, spell in question.



Weapon Shift

(Spell Compendium, p. 237)

Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer 1, Wizard 1, Spellthief 1, Bard 2,
Components: V, S, M,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One melee weapon of up to 15 lb.
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

A weapon shift spell allows you to temporarily transform any one melee weapon into a different melee weapon. Thus, a greatclub could be transformed into a greatsword, a light pick into a morning star, or a dagger into a battleaxe.
Improvised weapons and double weapons cannot be targeted or be the result of this spell. Magic weapons transformed retain all their special abilities as long as the new form could legally have those abilities, and weapons made from special materials retain their special materials.
Material Component: A piece of parchment folded into the shape of the weapon type desired.


The monk's unarmed strikes


A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.


Does this mean it works? Can a Monk turn his arms into spiked chains? or does "effects that enhance or improve" make it excluded from working?

If it does work, natural weapons are any weapons that are physically part of a creature, does this mean the Monk is now proficient with the weapon? I would argue no, but I'd like to see opinions.

[deuxhero]

No, your unarmed strike is your whole body, not your arms and, unless you are super tiny, a character weighs more than 15 pounds.

There's a bunch of screwy stuff with that monk clause and other spells though. There's also the classic Throwing Amulet of Mighty Fists.

[malonkey1]

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong about this. So first, spell in question.



The monk's unarmed strikes


Does this mean it works? Can a Monk turn his arms into spiked chains? or does "effects that enhance or improve" make it excluded from working?

If it does work, natural weapons are any weapons that are physically part of a creature, does this mean the Monk is now proficient with the weapon? I would argue no, but I'd like to see opinions.

I'd say that, by pure RAW (and pure awesome), it works on both counts. I think I have an opponent for my group now.

[Alent]

I think I would rule that it isn't an enhancement or an improvement, and thus doesn't qualify.

At a reading, I'm given the odd idea that if it were possible, the chains would be made of flesh as they retain their material properties.

I would be tempted to let a centaur do it if he was trying to bluff someone into thinking he was a Zelekhut or something.

[Oko and Qailee]

No, your unarmed strike is your whole body, not your arms and, unless you are super tiny, a character weighs more than 15 pounds.

There's a bunch of screwy stuff with that monk clause and other spells though. There's also the classic Throwing Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Dang it, good point. I actually completely missed the 15lbs clause... what if you're a fire elemental?



At a reading, I'm given the odd idea that if it were possible, the chains would be made of flesh as they retain their material properties.



This is the stuff of nightmares.

[deuxhero]

A fire elemental could indeed use it, even if they were a polymorphed Monk, though it would turn their entire body into a spiked chain, which gets weird as there are no rules on it, not even the general Polymorph ones because it isn't a polymorph effect (also: even if it wasn't the case, you'd still need two castings to turn your armS into spiked chainS)

[Troacctid]

Your arm probably weighs less than 15 lbs, though, so as long as you didn't transform the rest of you, I'd allow it. It's essentially this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShapeshifterWeapon).

[Oko and Qailee]

A fire elemental could indeed use it, even if they were a polymorphed Monk, though it would turn their entire body into a spiked chain, which gets weird as there are no rules on it, not even the general Polymorph ones because it isn't a polymorph effect (also: even if it wasn't the case, you'd still need two castings to turn your armS into spiked chainS)

Dm "you want to play a what?"

"a fire elemental thats a spiked chain"

[Alent]

There's a bunch of screwy stuff with that monk clause and other spells though. There's also the classic Throwing Amulet of Mighty Fists.


A fire elemental could indeed use it, even if they were a polymorphed Monk, though it would turn their entire body into a spiked chain, which gets weird as there are no rules on it, not even the general Polymorph ones because it isn't a polymorph effect (also: even if it wasn't the case, you'd still need two castings to turn your armS into spiked chainS)

Wait a second. I just put the Throwing amulet of mighty fists and the entire body natural attack together in a bad way: I can get a Morphing Sizing Amulet of Mighty Fists and turn my natural attack into a Brass Golem's butt attack, and become a literal colossal ass monk?

(I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank the 101 natural attacks thread for inspiring one of the lamest puns I've made.)