Tiers of Play (Not character class tiers)

[Aron Times]

I noticed a parallel between the nWoD (post-GMC) and D&D 5e, in that they use four tiers of play:

Tier 1: Local (nWoD) or Apprentice (D&D 5e)

"Let's save the town!"

This tier has the party saving their neighborhood or small town. nWoD parties at this tier are known as cells, as in terrorist cell or Hunter cell. For 5e, this tier spans levels 1 to 4. Newbie players would feel more comfortable at this tier, as the plot is simpler and there is less at stake. 1st-level spells.

Tier 2: Regional (nWoD) or Heroic (D&D 5e)

"Let's save the country!"

A larger scope than tier 1. May involve a city or three or even a whole small country or city-state. This is the default assumption of most nWoD game lines, with the exception of Mage (close to tier 3) and Werewolf (close to tier 1). In 5e, this is from levels 5 to 10. 3rd-level spells.

Tier 3: Global (nWoD) or Paragon (D&D 5e)

"Let's save the world!"

Worldwide conspiracies running the World of Darkness. The default assumption of oWoD, though the post-GMC nWoD has rules for upgrading various splats to this tier. Levels 11 to 16 in 5e. 6th-level spells.

Tier 4: Cosmic (nWoD) or Epic (D&D 5e)

"Lets save reality itself!"

Multiversal threats to existence. Keter-class hazards. The vaguely defined power stat 6+ characters in the nWoD deal with or cause these problems. Right now, only Mage has rules for Gnosis 6+ gameplay. Supposedly, Vampire will get an Elder splat book by December this year. Levels 17 to 20 in 5e. 9th-level spells.

What other gameplay tiers do other games have?

[Zavoniki]

4th has Heroic, Paragon, Epic that roughly follow save the Kingdom, save the Planet, save the Multiverse.

Superhero games also seem to have tiers that go something like Street Level(Save the City), Global(Save the Planet), Cosmic(Save the Universe), Cosmic+(Save the Multiverse). Though for Superheroes it feels like this is missing something. There's a difference between deflecting an asteroid and beating a Supervillain who wants to conquer the planet.

I can't think of anything else I have played that has tiers. Eclipse Phase has a massively changing structure and setting assumptions depending on where in the setting your adventure takes place, but there's no power level or scale difference.

The hardest part of this is what do you mean by Tier of play? Is it the challenges the character face? The power the characters wield? The stakes? Some combination? The last is what you seem to be talking about.

[Aron Times]

I'm talking about codified tiers, those referred to in the actual rulebooks or discussed by the game developers. D&D 5e simply refers to tier 1 to tier 4, but an article published before the 5e release referred to them as Apprentice, Heroic, Paragon, and Epic. It's different from JaronK's class tiers in that they were unofficial and not part of the RAW, not to mention that the 3.5 devs were either ignorant or in denial of it until very, very late in 3.5's run.

[Eldan]

Actually, I I was thinking of something else...
The class tiers in 3.5 sort of define how much a player can influence a plot, how many situations they can solve so I was thinking, perhaps one could define "plot influence tiers"?

Tier 4: Passengers
The players are on rails, they know it and frankly, they are happy with it. For them, an adventure consists of a series of encounters the DM gives them, which they pass through one after the other. You find a clue, the clue leads you to the next place, you go through that place, you find the next hint, and so on until the epic climax. The structure of the adventure is linear, the goal is clear, there are few choices.
Example: goblins are attacking teh village. The players beat them back. The mayor offers a reward for the goblin king's head. THe players go kill the goblin king and get the reward. Can be quite a bit more epic, of course.

Tier 3: Drivers
Similar to Passengers, but these players influence the plot at least a bit. They choose the speed and direction of the railway, perhaps between different sets of rails. There are branching points in the story, or a set of quests.
Example: The players decide whether they want to try and stop the attacking army, negotiate a peace deal or leave the country.

Tier 2: Problem Solvers
The players are presented with a situation and a problem and figure out their own way to deal with it. They have to come up with their own solutions, isntead of having some presented by the GM.
Example: A charismatic leader has united the city's warring criminal gangs. The players are asked to bring him down. PErhaps they will start an open war, perhaps the will infiltrate his gang, perhaps they will try assassination, or just start a competing syndicate.

Tier 1: Plot Drivers/Sandcastle builders
The DM creates a sandbox for the players and they come up with their own goals, perhaps from their backstories, to achieve. Wealth, fame, revenge, anything.
Example: The local dictator has died and factions are warring in the city.The players decide to take control of their own faction and will eventually try to build a kingdom.
Example: The players inherit a ship from a distant, rich relative and try to make it as traders/pirates/explorers.

Tier 0: The Derailer
These are disruptive players. When told there's a quest, they will want to do something different. When presented with a city and a problem, they'll travel to another city. When presented with a sandbox, told that the continent is wide open, they will decide to try teleporting to the moon.

[prufock]

Sounds about right, OP. I tend to think of these as level groupings, with approximately 5 levels per tier. Level 1-5 you're saving the town, level 6-10 the kingdom, level 11-15 the world, level 16-20 everything. Epic levels just get silly.

[sktarq]

Actually, I I was thinking of something else...
The class tiers in 3.5 sort of define how much a player can influence a plot, how many situations they can solve so I was thinking, perhaps one could define "plot influence tiers"?

Tier 4: Passengers...

Tier 1: Plot Drivers/Sandcastle builders...

Tier 0: The Derailer...
I'd say these are wonderful ideas for discussing differences in playstyle but not power. Any of those tiers can be run from any tier of any of DnD's various editions.
That said I may swipe this as a easy way to discuss playstyles-wonderful breakdown.

[Geostationary]

Question: would a situation in which local scenarios have grander cosmological implications be tier 1 or 4? You're still operating at a roughly local level, but should you fail (or succeed, depending) the consequences can/will ripple out to the cosmos at large.

[Prime32]

The E6 rules include a breakdown of D&D 3.5 into 5-level tiers that seems to have come from here (www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?187713-D-amp-D-changes-every-5-levels-by-design).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Eldan
Actually, I I was thinking of something else...
The class tiers in 3.5 sort of define how much a player can influence a plot, how many situations they can solve so I was thinking, perhaps one could define "plot influence tiers"?

This is a great rundown, although I'd agree with sktarq that this list touches more on DM and player approaches than anything inherent to the game mechanics.

These are well worth developing into a full article, but it might be better to find another term than "tier," since it's been so engrained in 3.5 culture as the shorthand for JaronK's class analysis.