Making a Vampire Count

[Blackhawk748]

And yes i am referring to the Warhammer Fantasy variety. What im going for here is a Melee Monster with a dash of magic. Specifically he needs to be able to cast Animate Dead, any other spells are icing. Heres what i want him to do;

1. Be an absolute BEAST in melee combat (im talking Red Fury blender lord here, if you know Vampire Counts)
2. Cast Animate Dead (innately not through UMD or custom magic items)
3. Be Durable (yes i know this can be hard)
4. Be recognizable as a Vampire (so Half Vampire Necropolitans are a go)
5. Be playable in an average game, so no TO.

Books available, anything not setting specific (unless its just plain perfect) otherwise all first party, with Dragon Mag being viewed with suspicion.

Now ive got a few ideas bouncing around in my head, most notably a Dread Necro Gish, but im curious as to what the playground can come up with.

[Red Fel]

So, Cleric, then?

Perhaps Cleric/Crusader/RKV, if you want a more melee angle? Really, though, anything with a Cleric core should be sufficient. I mean, once you get access to Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm), you are a melee monster, full stop. And while Animate Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm) is on the generic Cleric list, it's also available through the Death and Undeath domains. So you've got plenty of options.

Now, if your goal is to emphasize the melee combat and only use a dash of Cleric power, you can use as much or as little spellcasting as you choose. The point is, a few Cleric buffs, with or without DMM Persist, can make an absolute melee fiend, and you'll get access to Animate Dead on top of it.

[Segev]

Well, first, you ingrain in him an obsession with counting things. Then you put things to count in front of him!

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060205225316/muppet/images/3/3c/CT-p0001-ST.jpg

[Blackhawk748]

So, Cleric, then?

Perhaps Cleric/Crusader/RKV, if you want a more melee angle? Really, though, anything with a Cleric core should be sufficient. I mean, once you get access to Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm), you are a melee monster, full stop. And while Animate Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm) is on the generic Cleric list, it's also available through the Death and Undeath domains. So you've got plenty of options.

Now, if your goal is to emphasize the melee combat and only use a dash of Cleric power, you can use as much or as little spellcasting as you choose. The point is, a few Cleric buffs, with or without DMM Persist, can make an absolute melee fiend, and you'll get access to Animate Dead on top of it.

Ah cleric, what dont you do? While i actually can play a DMM cleric (not persist, my DM would beat me with a fan) im very paranoid about getting my buffs dispelled. And honestly there is no real reason for that, as ive never been dispelled in my life, i just have the strangest feeling that if i go the self buff route im gonna start running into more dispels coming my way. Though the RKV is definitely making the list, though id probably enter as a Warblade (i just REALLY dont like the Crusader's recovery mechanic, its a personal thing)


Well, first, you ingrain in him an obsession with counting things. Then you put things to count in front of him!

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060205225316/muppet/images/3/3c/CT-p0001-ST.jpg

And you just literally made me lol

[ShurikVch]

Which family we speak of?
Von Carstein?
Necrarch?
Blood Dragon?
Strigoi?
Lahmia?
Or, maybe, mad admiral Luthor Harkon?

[Segev]

Glad to provide the amusement. ^_^

But more seriously, one way to get the Animate Dead, if you don't want to devote class levels worth of spellcaster, is to be Spellstitched, as well.

It's not a bad template even without the spell-like abilities.

[Red Fel]

Ah cleric, what dont you do? While i actually can play a DMM cleric (not persist, my DM would beat me with a fan) im very paranoid about getting my buffs dispelled. And honestly there is no real reason for that, as ive never been dispelled in my life, i just have the strangest feeling that if i go the self buff route im gonna start running into more dispels coming my way. Though the RKV is definitely making the list, though id probably enter as a Warblade (i just REALLY dont like the Crusader's recovery mechanic, its a personal thing)

Admittedly, the Crusader's recovery mechanic is a bit random, and that's a downer. But it's also automatic, no actions required on your part; thus, if maneuvers are a complement to your combat style, rather than the focus, it guarantees that you'll have them at the ready, no need to waste actions. It's also a lot less MAD than a Warblade/Cleric (with a focus on all physical abilities, plus Int for Warblade, plus Wis and Cha for Cleric). Also, Crusader's abilities allow for great damage-soaking - and durability is very much what you were asking for.

And I don't need to tell you why RKV is the Win(dicator).

Now, an alternative is to go with some combination of Whirling Frenzy Barbarian/Totemist/Soul Eater. Throw on some Warblade for Stormguard Warrior if it strikes your fancy. Depending on how you read Soul Eater, "with a touch" can mean "on a successful natural weapon attack," and that's pretty freaking lethal when you kit yourself out with Totemist's arsenal of natural weapons. You can refluff soulmelds as extensions of your shadow or dark energy (a la Hellsing's Alucard and his freaky shadow-and-eyeball-and-teeth tricks).

The downside, of course, is that you don't get Animate Dead. But on the plus side, note the following (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels) :
A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.
(Emphasis added.) So you can technically create undead, you just might not be able to control them. Note also that, if you go Totemist, you can take Shape Soulmeld (Necrocarnum Circlet). If you're at least Totemist 5, your Crown Chakra is open, and you can bind the Circlet there to animate a Necrocarnum Zombie.

[Blackhawk748]

Now, an alternative is to go with some combination of Whirling Frenzy Barbarian/Totemist/Soul Eater. Throw on some Warblade for Stormguard Warrior if it strikes your fancy. Depending on how you read Soul Eater, "with a touch" can mean "on a successful natural weapon attack," and that's pretty freaking lethal when you kit yourself out with Totemist's arsenal of natural weapons. You can refluff soulmelds as extensions of your shadow or dark energy (a la Hellsing's Alucard and his freaky shadow-and-eyeball-and-teeth tricks).

The downside, of course, is that you don't get Animate Dead. But on the plus side, note the following (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels) :
(Emphasis added.) So you can technically create undead, you just might not be able to control them. Note also that, if you go Totemist, you can take Shape Soulmeld (Necrocarnum Circlet). If you're at least Totemist 5, your Crown Chakra is open, and you can bind the Circlet there to animate a Necrocarnum Zombie.

Oh sweet Kas, that is horrifying, sadly i cant be an undead Soul Eater :smallfurious: (seriously why did they have to put "Living" in there, totally ruining my fun) Also snagging Shape Soulmeld to get that crown on anyone may be a good idea as Woo Zombies!


Which family we speak of?
Von Carstein?
Necrarch?
Blood Dragon?
Strigoi?
Lahmia?
Or, maybe, mad admiral Luthor Harkon?

It'd be either Von Carstien or Blood Dragon. Going for the whole regal sophisticated Vampire vibe. Though a Strigoi would be replicated wonderfully by the Barbarian/Totemist/Souleater as those things are friggin monsters

Edit: as i dislike playing prepared spellcasters (its just how i am) i would probably play a spontaneous cleric from UA, now as i have limited spells which ones do i need to have? Divine Favor, Divine Power, Displacement and Iron Ward? (im not sure if thats what its called and i know that its a Druid spell that makes you immune to metal weapons)

[Red Fel]

Oh sweet Kas, that is horrifying, sadly i cant be an undead Soul Eater :smallfurious: (seriously why did they have to put "Living" in there, totally ruining my fun) Also snagging Shape Soulmeld to get that crown on anyone may be a good idea as Woo Zombies!

Well, be very clear of several things. First, it gets you one Zombie. Second, if I recall, its HD are limited by your meldshaper level. And third, it has to be bound to your Crown Chakra to get the zombie - which requires a second feat (Open Least Chakra (Crown)).

But yes, a Necrocarnum Zombie is freaking sweet.

An alternative is to go Necrocarnate, grab as many of the Necrocarnum soulmelds as you like, and at capstone gain bonus Necrocarnum Zombies. The downside is that your melee capacity suffers somewhat.

[Blackhawk748]

Well, be very clear of several things. First, it gets you one Zombie. Second, if I recall, its HD are limited by your meldshaper level. And third, it has to be bound to your Crown Chakra to get the zombie - which requires a second feat (Open Least Chakra (Crown)).

But yes, a Necrocarnum Zombie is freaking sweet.

An alternative is to go Necrocarnate, grab as many of the Necrocarnum soulmelds as you like, and at capstone gain bonus Necrocarnum Zombies. The downside is that your melee capacity suffers somewhat.

I saw that and it made me sad, no Necrocanum Zombie hordes. :smallfrown:

While Necrocarnate is sweet i can not afford that kind of slap to my melee potential, though i will probably play one at a different point.

Right now im thinking Crusader (im just gonna suck it up and give them a shot)/ Spontaneous Cleric/RKV (totally refluffing this to be a Scion of Kas) Actually, would Bone Knight work here? I know i said no setting stuff, but that PrC has almost 0 setting specific stuff to it, its pretty much just an undead focused Blackguard.

[thethird]

Might I suggest fanged horned harbinger from faiths and pantheons (it is a faerun book) but it gives access to animate, create and create greater undead while giving also several useful feats and abilities. It also gives a natural attack at first level, sadly it's described as a crown but refluffing might allow to go with fangs. It doesn't require spellcasting and it's entry is fairly "easy" (knowledge planes 8, and fluff)

If you are going with the vampire template, ask to be a savage vampire (libris mortis pg 170) you gain claws that deal negative levels, you loose dominate, and gain +10 STR, +4 DEX, -2 INT, +2 WIS, and some skill bonuses.

Additionally chesewrought kobolds qualify for vampiric dragon which is pretty good and only LA +5.

Personally I would allow a blood dragon vampire with savage vampire modifying vampiric dragon as long as he has drank dragon blood at some point. It can fit pretty well the blood dragon fluff (and LA +5 is already crippling enough, LA +8 is preposterous)

[Blackhawk748]

Huh, Horned Harbinger seems a bit..... odd. Like i want to go in as a Cleric, but i dont advance spellcasting, so im thinking entry via Paladin seems like the best bet. Otherwise its seems fairly solid if a tad odd.

Ok, so Bone Knight looks like a party, but RKV is an amazing beatstick, on top of that Horned Harbinger lets me have an army of undead....... crap. Now i dont know which one to go with. :smalltongue:

[Sian]

1 rank in Knowledge (Mathematics):smallbiggrin:

[Petrocorus]

You probably need the Vampire Lord template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/vampirelord.shtml), which diminish the downside of DnD vampire.
Given the vampire LA, you'll want a fast progressing class. So, better to use Ur-Priest than cleric.

Crusader 4 / Generic Warrior 1 / Ur-Priest 2 / RKV 10 / Something else 3

The Warblade does not have access to Devoted Spirit and so need feats to qualify to RKV.

There is also SADder versions with Crusader / Divine Crusader / Ordained Champion / RKV, but you need to acquire Turn Undead somehow to qualify for RKV.

If you want spontaneous spellcasting, a simple solution is:
Paladin of X 2/ Favoured Soul 18.

You can also simply make a Sorcadin, Animate Dead is on the Wiz spell list too.


Actually, would Bone Knight work here? I know i said no setting stuff, but that PrC has almost 0 setting specific stuff to it, its pretty much just an undead focused Blackguard.

I'm sorry, but i'd say Bone Knight is quite specific to Karnath. It's possible to import it in another setting, but it has far more fluff than many others.

[ShurikVch]

Just how much of a caster you wish for your Vampire Count?

For example, Blood Dragons disdain magic - even Walach Harkon, Grand Master of Blood Keep have Magic Characteristic of only 4 - less than some Thralls of Carstein bloodline -, and less important Blood Dragons - such as Red Duke - have only 1, and it's probably only because it's absolute minimum for any sane vampire

Isabella von Carstein know only a couple of spells, and Konrad was completely incapable to magic (probably, because insanity)

Notes about the Warhammer vampires:

1. Notable use of spellbooks. So, if we go with it, choice is between Wizard, Archivist, and Chameleon.

2. Magic in Warhammer is a bit like psionics in 40K - same source, close principles... Take s2p Erudite, dip into Grim Psion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030628b), then go Psychic Weapon Master

3. Rules in Warhammer RPG not really limiting usage of spells-per-day, so you can, technically, just cast, cast, and cast. If we will try to re-create it, our target class is, probably, Warlock. The Dead Walk may be used instead Invocation of Nehek, and Charm - instead Beguile. If BAB 3/4 is too low, you may enter the Dragonslayer PrC.

4. If you decide to focus on less magical aspects, but still wish to create undead, there is Spellstitched Creature template in CArc. With high Wis you can even get actual Create Undead 1/day. And, because it's SLAs, you can use them in armor, and without expending costly components.

[Blackhawk748]

4. If you decide to focus on less magical aspects, but still wish to create undead, there is Spellstitched Creature template in CArc. With high Wis you can even get actual Create Undead 1/day. And, because it's SLAs, you can use them in armor, and without expending costly components.

I think ill go with that, might just play a Warblade, probably snag a few Devoted Spirit Maneuvers with feats for the Tanking. May go into Horned Harbinger (probably gonna have to update it a bit)

Also what is the LA on Spellstiched?

[ShurikVch]

Also what is the LA on Spellstiched? There is no LA, i. e. not mentioned at all
By default rules it must mean "LA +0", but some people are against it
Anyway, by the RAW:
Undead with arcane spellcasting abilities can spellstitch themselves.

[Blackhawk748]

There is no LA, i. e. not mentioned at all
By default rules it must mean "LA +0", but some people are against it
Anyway, by the RAW:

Thats what i thought, i just thought it odd that it didnt even have LA:- which would be normal if they didnt want PCs to have it, it just failed to mention it at all.

[emeraldstreak]

Too bad you can't use Ravenloft.

[Blackhawk748]

Too bad you can't use Ravenloft.

Ah salient vampire abilities, so wonderful and powerful. I Wish i could but my DM would probably beat me with my own Library.

Edit, ok i have a build, Warblade 5/ Horned Harbinger 10/Warblade 5, Ill take Knowledge Devotion and then pump ranks into Knowledge the Planes so i can get the pre reqs, i was thinking of being a Spellstiched Gray Elf Necropolitan Half Vampire and taking Faerie Mystery Initiate, but i just realized that you need to have a second person to be able to get Int to HP, so that kinda sucks. So i need to find another way to get a stat to HP as i am a melee guy and i need that.

[DMVerdandi]

Too bad you can't use Ravenloft.


Ah salient vampire abilities, so wonderful and powerful. I Wish i could but my DM would probably beat me with my own Library.

Edit, ok i have a build, Warblade 5/ Horned Harbinger 10/Warblade 5, Ill take Knowledge Devotion and then pump ranks into Knowledge the Planes so i can get the pre reqs, i was thinking of being a Spellstiched Gray Elf Necropolitan Half Vampire and taking Faerie Mystery Initiate, but i just realized that you need to have a second person to be able to get Int to HP, so that kinda sucks. So i need to find another way to get a stat to HP as i am a melee guy and i need that.

Why would raven loft be better? I don't understand the significance? And what are salient vampire abilities? I have expedition to castle ravenloft and straid doesn't seem that strong at all.
In short, Huh?


Also, it really sucks that DnD just has the worst vampires I have ever seen, ever. They have far more weaknesses than actual strengths. Necropolitan is the best bet IMO. Class levels are far more precious than a couple of easily reproduced buffs.

Had I my own way, Vampires would have been built not much different than dragons, building in strength and potency with age, having a spell stealing mechanic through the bite, Not having acting like anne rice vampires and exploding in the sun, but merely being bothered by the sunlight, maybe sickened condition, and natural spell casting(Spirit shaman casting with wizard/sorc list).
No problem with the rest of the undead weaknesses though.




Anyhow, I think a good mix would actually be a necropolitan druid. It's got shape changing, it's got spells, it's got an animal companion, it's got summoning. It does almost everything you could want.

If not that, archivist works too. Stp erudite however is king. Get a handful of cool powers that you can change every day, all psion powers, all arcane spells. Fantastic variety.
As far as the melee thing, you can buff your way there, honestly. research a psionic version of divine power, and bang.

Use Heroics to pick out TOB maneuvers when necessary.

[dysprosium]

Why would raven loft be better? I don't understand the significance? And what are salient vampire abilities? I have expedition to castle ravenloft and straid doesn't seem that strong at all.
In short, Huh?

I believe the reference was to the third party Ravenloft sourcebooks by Sword & Sorcery.

[Blackhawk748]

I believe the reference was to the third party Ravenloft sourcebooks by Sword & Sorcery.

It was, and those powers are freakin crazy. They can make a vampire absolutely horrifying.

[Petrocorus]

It was, and those powers are freakin crazy. They can make a vampire absolutely horrifying.

Does someone has the title of that sourcebook?

[Blackhawk748]

Its in the Ravenlift Campaign guide, also i almost forgot that they have age categories now.