(3.5) Feat that can grant a druid rebuke/command plants

[Phelix-Mu]

I know there is one; what's it called? Or maybe a druid would need a trick to get it. Anyway, there is one out there.

Also, if any of y'all can just rattle off the usual suspects of druid optimization (less obvious than Natural Spell and Augment Summoning, anyway) in terms of feats, would be most helpful in making sure nothing is slipping my mind.

Much obliged.

[Forrestfire]

Plant Defiance and Plant Control, from Masters of the Wild (or Deities and Demigods).

[eggynack]

You're probably looking for initiate of nature, from player's guide to faerun, which also grants a rebuke animals ability. On usual suspects of druid optimization, my tendency is towards one big form adding feat, usually aberration wild shape, one big summoning feat, either greenbound or rashemi, and then the rest is more marginal supportish stuff, like ashbound, natural bond, and gatekeeper initiate.

[Phelix-Mu]

Alright, nice.

How about decent feat choices for epic druid (or epic character with druid + druid PrC levels)?

[eggynack]

How about decent feat choices for epic druid (or epic character with druid + druid PrC levels)?
I don't have much in the way of research/list on that currently. Mostly been poking around at animal companions lately. Still, epic casting is obviously ridiculous, and out of the list of epic wild feats, magical beast and elemental are likely to be the two most viable, if only because the others are rather mediocre. Still, it's hard to say that these things are good when you already have access to shapechange. It's a big problem with a lot of these sorts of decisions, actually, that most build choices are just subsumed by the forces of epic/9th level casting.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Plant Defiance/Control (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#plantControl) costs two feats, and gets what you want.

Planar Touchstone for Catalogues of Enlightenment for the Plant domain costs two feats, Kn: Planes 8 ranks, 250 gp, and possibly some in-game effort, for what you want.

Initiate of Nature (PGtF) requires 5th level and one of three specific FR patron deities, and gets a whole lot more than what you're looking for. It will be fighting with Natural Spell for your 6th level feat slot, though.


For general optimization, Greenbound Summoning is one of the strongest feats you can get. A 1st level Summon Nature's Ally gets a Greenbound Dire Rat that can immediately use Wall of Thorns to automatically trap multiple corporeal opponents, and then it can spam Entangle for the rest of the summon duration. Get a Ring of the Beast and your SNAI can get multiple rats or a Greenbound Dire Bat instead.

[Phelix-Mu]

I don't have much in the way of research/list on that currently. Mostly been poking around at animal companions lately. Still, epic casting is obviously ridiculous, and out of the list of epic wild feats, magical beast and elemental are likely to be the two most viable, if only because the others are rather mediocre. Still, it's hard to say that these things are good when you already have access to shapechange. It's a big problem with a lot of these sorts of decisions, actually, that most build choices are just subsumed by the forces of epic/9th level casting.

Well, Epic Spellcasting is out, and we are working with a shapechange fix that basically makes it markedly inferior to the RAW (it's kind of like wild shape on steroids, but cuts back on all of the cheesy optimization tricks).

Really, looks like I am down to utility or general stuff with my epic feat, after Improved Elemental Wild Shape, which is good. I only get two, so it's not a big deal.

If it matters at all, I did manage to pick up two domains along the way, Balance and Travel, so I guess something like domain spontanaeity or something.

EDIT: Aiming for mid-op, I think. And this character already has spontaneous casting from the entire druid list due to some 3rd party material, so I really need to tone down the feats, which means things like Ashbound and Greenbound are out. But I can probably get some long-term plant minionmancy in without affecting power levels (given we are level 25).

[eggynack]

Well, Epic Spellcasting is out, and we are working with a shapechange fix that basically makes it markedly inferior to the RAW (it's kind of like wild shape on steroids, but cuts back on all of the cheesy optimization tricks).
If that's the case, then aberration wild shape probably goes back to being useful in epic levels, depending on how much things are nerfed. Double magic is always good, after all, and some of those defensive tricks are relatively unique.

[Phelix-Mu]

If that's the case, then aberration wild shape probably goes back to being useful in epic levels, depending on how much things are nerfed. Double magic is always good, after all, and some of those defensive tricks are relatively unique.

Great suggestion, but this druid is very traditional druid flavor, and thus Aberration Wild Shape is right out due to flavor conflict. Otherwise it is a strong option (maulgoth...hehe). Sorry to keep shooting you down, but this is good. We are going down the list.

[Phelix-Mu]

Seems like Initiate of Nature is the one I'm looking for. Since druids in this setting don't need to worship a power, a druid should be able to get the feat by 5th, methinks.

Thanks everyone!

[Gemini476]

If that's the case, then aberration wild shape probably goes back to being useful in epic levels, depending on how much things are nerfed. Double magic is always good, after all, and some of those defensive tricks are relatively unique.
Didn't the reprint of the Monster Manual do some changes to the Choker's Quickness, or have I been misinformed?

Googling around seems to indicate that they just removed the ability completely, actually.

Stealth errata, whooo.

[Phelix-Mu]

Didn't the reprint of the Monster Manual do some changes to the Choker's Quickness, or have I been misinformed?

Googling around seems to indicate that they just removed the ability completely, actually.

Stealth errata, whooo.

I think he may have been referring to the Nilshaii trick, though I'm not clear on its parameters, nor exactly which FR book that critter is from. Could be wrong, though, but I believe both methods manipulate the action economy.

And everyone should just agree to ignore the reprints of the core books. The editing team at WotC seems to have done so, only irregularly incorporating rules updates and apparently making up new ones from whole cloth. If they can't be bothered, I certainly can't be bothered. Choker's Quickness was problematic, but not even close to the top of the list of problems they should have addressed.

[LTwerewolf]

For epic druid the epic wild shape size increase feats are important imo.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For epic levels, get Improved Elemental Wild Shape, at the end of each day turn into an Immoth (MM2), and store all of your remaining spells as ice runes. Those ice runes last indefinitely until used, even if you switch to another form. They're a free action to activate, so you could store hundreds of direct damage spells as ice runes and activate them all in a single round. Say you spent a year or more of game time storing spells as ice runes for later use, and you'll have an almost limitless number of spells at your disposal at any time.

[eggynack]

I think he may have been referring to the Nilshaii trick, though I'm not clear on its parameters, nor exactly which FR book that critter is from. Could be wrong, though, but I believe both methods manipulate the action economy.
You would be correct. Source on that one is unapproachable east.

[Fax Celestis]

Wouldn't one level in Holt Warden do it? Druids practically walk into that too.

[eggynack]

Wouldn't one level in Holt Warden do it? Druids practically walk into that too.
Close. First level only grants the plant domain's spells, either in spontaneous or normal domain form. Second level is what grants the rebuke plants ability.

[Fax Celestis]

Oh right. And he'd lose two levels of wild shape progression, if that matters. Still, it's not a bad option.

[eggynack]

Oh right. And he'd lose two levels of wild shape progression, if that matters. Still, it's not a bad option.
It's a pretty good class by my reckoning. Bunch of free spells/day, that can be harnessed for domain spells from another class, or maybe spontaneous summoning, or both, depending on mood. They can also obviously be used for plant domain spells, but that's a lot less interesting. Second level isn't really as good, but it's not the worst thing either, and clearly fits in with this majig. It's hard to tell whether going a second level would be better than spending a feat on initiate of nature though, even assuming a level already spent on holt warden.

[Phelix-Mu]

I don't want to go too diptastic, but that Warden is tempting. The character has nine druid levels, ten levels into a 3rd party PrC for druids, and currently 6 into an adaptation of Seeker of the Misty Isle, called Wandering Druid, which is basically everything this character could ask for having already reached a considerable peak of power (elemental apotheosis, spontaneous casting off the entire druid list, and AC and WS benefits north of 16th equivalent druid level).

So I don't need much more cheese at this point, given the op-level of the campaign. Just looking for a bit of minionmancy to help her with her day job, really. And a couple of her feats are currently really wasted on random stuff that isn't relevant anymore, so I'm taking the opportunity to tweak them a bit.