Quiver of endless arrows

[StickMan]

Quiver of endless arrows
The quiver of endless arrows can store up to 500 arrows at a time adding an arrow to the quiver is a move action. If it hold diffrent kinds of arrows one arrow of each kind protrudes from the top of the quiver and a new one takes its place after each arrow is fired untill the quiver runs out of that kind of arrow. The quiver also shows how many of each arrow the quiver holds by a pattern on the side of the bag.

I was thinking the price on this should be around 750GP what do you all think.

[Terror_Incognito]

I'm fairly certain an item with the same name already exists that creates magic arrows, never running out.

This sounds to me, more like a "Quiver of Holding" (feel free to steal that), as the supply of arrows isn't actually endless. Otherwise, it an handy item.

Also, I think the cost is a bit low. But since I'm at work and don't know the cost of enchanting something like that, I could be wrong.

[Necromas]

I think the cost is a bit lower then it should be, but seeing as in every game I've been in nobodies even bothered worrying about where your pulling your arrows out of or if your quiver has run out yet I'd let the price slide.

[Haedrian]

500 arrows = 500/20

= 25 gold coins worth

The price is far far far too much...

Plus who'd run around with 500 arrows?

[levi]

I think the cost is a bit lower then it should be, but seeing as in every game I've been in nobodies even bothered worrying about where your pulling your arrows out of or if your quiver has run out yet I'd let the price slide. I don't know about you or the rest of the world, but I always keep track of my ammunition and as a DM expect my players to do the same.

As for the item in question, I think it is pretty severely undercosted. Here's a selection of holding type items from the core rules.

{table=head]Item | Item Weight | Max Weight | Max Volume | Cost
Bag of Holding (Type 1) | 15 lb. | 250 lb. | 30 cu. ft. | 2500 gp
Bag of Holding (Type 2) | 25 lb. | 500 lb. | 70 cu. ft. | 5000 gp
Bag of Holding (Type 3) | 35 lb. | 1000 lb. | 150 cu. ft. | 7400 gp
Bag of Holding (Type 4) | 60 lb. | 1500 lb. | 250 cu. ft. | 10,000 gp
Handy Haversack | 5 lb. | 120 lb. | 12 cu. ft. | 2000 gp
Portable Hole | -- | -- | ~283 cu. ft. | 20,000 gp
Quiver of Ehlonna | 2 lb. | -- | -- | 1800 gp
[/table]

The closest one to what you've made is the Quiver of Ehlonna, which holds 60 arrows in one of it's three compartments. If you do the math, it costs 10 gp per arrow stored, which makes storing 500 arrows cost 5000 gp. Of course, this could be subject to adjustment, but I think it's a good start.

One thing to remember is that the "handy" effect that the Handy Haversack and Quiver of Ehlonna both have makes them much more expensive per ammount of space provided than Bags of Holding or Portable Holes.

On the other tentacle, a Handy Haversack can store about 2400 arrows based on it's weight limit, but is likely limited to much less because of it's volume limit.

[Haedrian]

Am I the only one who thinks that these things are overpriced?

Take arrows for example, ok you get a (normal) quiver which holds (lets say 50 arrows)

In how many cases did you actually use ALL of them?

plus you can always carry spares in your bag, even if it takes a fullround action to fish it out of there.

Do you actually NEED to have 500 arrows at hand?

[StickMan]

I'm playing an archer and I don't only use normaly arrows in total I care around 8 diffrent types of arrows and I don't even have magic arrows yet so, yes a quiver that can hold 500 arrows would be nice for me also it will help keep down the total amount of weight I carry with me. I bassed the price of the Quiver of endless arrows on how the price of the Bag of Holding type 1. 500 arrows weigh around 75 pounds so I figured that a type one bag of holdings perpound cost was 2500GP/250lb= 10GP per pound of storage. So I just took 75 times 10 and got the price of 750GP

[StickMan]

Any one have anyother thoughts about this thing?

[levi]

I was wodering why my Quiver of Ehlonna based math lead to such a re-donk-ulous price. So I did some more math and figured out that the arrow compartment has an internal weight of about 9 nine pounds, while the total capacity of the quiver is about 63 pounds. Which means the simplistic method of just dividing the cost of the quiver by three and then using that price to figure the per arrow cost was way off.

Once I got on this track, I started wondering how Bags o' Holding and related items really worked, system wise. So I started with the data I assembled for my previous chart and broke out the virtual calculator and made some interesting discoveries. While it becomes apparent that extra and non dimensional spaces are pretty ad hoc, I did notice some patterns.

With normal bags, there seems to be an economy of scale. The bigger the bag gets, the less you pay per pound of capacity and the ratio of bag weight to bag capacity decreases (so things weigh less), however, you start to get less volume capacity per pound. Hmm.

On the other tentacle, "handy" items that automagicallyTM give you the item you're looking for are much more expensive per pound than normal bags. The portable hole is also a lot more expensive per cubic foot than a bag of holding, but it uses diffent technology (based on another spell), so I figure it's to be expected.

{table=head]Item | Cost | O. Weight | I. Weight | I. Volume | gp/lb | gp/cft | i lb/o lb | lb/cft
Quiver of Ehlonna | 1800 | 2 | ~63 | -- | 28.6 | -- | 31.5 | --
Handy Haversack | 2000 | 5 | 120 | 12 | 16.7 | 166.7 | 24.0 | 10.0
|
Type I Bag | 2500 | 15 | 250 | 30 | 10.0 | 83.3 | 16.7 | 8.3
Type II Bag | 5000 | 25 | 500 | 70 | 10.0 | 71.4 | 20.0 | 7.1
Type III Bag | 7400 | 35 | 1000 |150 | 7.4 | 49.3 | 28.6 | 6.7
Type IV Bag | 10000 | 60 | 1500 |250 | 6.7 | 40.0 | 25.0 | 6.0
|
Portable Hole | 20000 | -- | -- | ~283 | -- | 70.7 | -- | --[/table]

Ok, now back to the real point of this thread. Based on the above math, a 500 arrow capacity Quiver of Holding would cost the original price StickMan gave of 750 gp. However, this assumes a normal bag of holding effect in which you have to fish around for your stuff for a full round. Rounding off to 25 gp/lb for a holding effect that allows drawing as a free action (as is needed for arrows), this gives a price of 1875, which is about the same price as the Quiver of Ehlonna. However, given the limited nature of the item, a price break may be in order, perhaps down to about 20 gp per pound, which drops the price to 1500 gp. That seems about right.



Quiver of Holding: This appears to be a typical quiver with a capacity of twenty arrows. The quiver opens into a nondimensional space capable of holding many more arrows than it would normally be able to. Each size of quiver of holding has room for given number of arrows or objects of similar size and shape. Once it's been filled, the owner of the quiver can draw any item desired as though drawing from a regular quiver. The quiver of holding has the same weight no matter how much stuff is placed inside of it. (See the bag of holding for additional rules regarding nondimensional spaces.)

Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wonderous Item, secret chest; Price 900 gp (300 arrows), 1200 gp (400 arrows), 1500 gp (500 arrows); Weight 3 lbs.


I changed the name because, as a previous poster mentioned, there's already an item by the original or a very similar name ("Quiver of Infinite Arrows") that uses a creation effect to supply an actually endless supply of normal arrows.