Warlock: Is it any good?

[Xuldarinar]

Just wondering if the warlock (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/warlock) class is any good. What are people's thoughts on it? I never see people talking about it.

[Extra Anchovies]

I'm not sure how powerful it might be, but it looks... boring, really. It only has a few unique abilities, the rest are accessible to wizards. The only ability of note is the 24-hour-duration Summon Monster ability, because it has no uses/day cap and thus lets you have a horde of summons. It makes the Adamant Entertainment Warlock one of the most powerful 20th-level characters, because you can have an army of literally hundreds of trumpet archons running around. There's at least one or two homebrew warlock updates, I recommend those instead.

As for why it's not discussed, well, it's non-DSP 3rd party stuff.

[Xuldarinar]

I'm not sure how powerful it might be, but it looks... boring, really. It only has a few unique abilities, the rest are accessible to wizards. The only ability of note is the 24-hour-duration Summon Monster ability, because it has no uses/day cap and thus lets you have a horde of summons running around. It makes the Adamant Entertainment Warlock one of the most powerful 20th-level characters, because you can have an army of literally hundreds of trumpet archons running around. There's at least one or two homebrew warlock updates, I recommend those instead.

As for why it's not discussed, well, it's non-DSP 3rd party stuff.

Ok, i'll give ya that.


I do see radiance house discussed from time to time, but at times it does seem with the popularity of discussion that DSP is considered almost official content.

[Soranar]

Having played a 3.5 warlock, the pathfinder version is... rather puny.

-It lacks versatility (so forget about tier 3)
-It can't do anything well (so forget tier 4)
-It loses abilities that made it useful outisde of combat (take 10 on use magic device, detect magic at will, etc)
-It's abilities are so delayed as to make them useless outside of epic level campaigns (level 15 and up)
-It can't seem to fulfill ANY role in a party (primary spellcaster, primary healer, battlefield controller, damage dealer, face or skillmonkey)


While your capstone abilities are great (summon anything , lasts all day, do it as often as you like) getting there is simply not worth it.

[Xuldarinar]

Having played a 3.5 warlock, the pathfinder version is... rather puny.

-It lacks versatility (so forget about tier 3)
-It can't do anything well (so forget tier 4)
-It loses abilities that made it useful outisde of combat (take 10 on use magic device, detect magic at will, etc)
-It's abilities are so delayed as to make them useless outside of epic level campaigns (level 15 and up)
-It can't seem to fulfill ANY role in a party (primary spellcaster, primary healer, battlefield controller, damage dealer, face or skillmonkey)


While your capstone abilities are great (summon anything , lasts all day, do it as often as you like) getting there is simply not worth it.

So maybe it is just better to use 3.5's Warlock with the skills updated? Maybe throw something else in to give it a bit of a power boost (such as tossing an archetype package at it)?

edit: or maybe even use a soulbolt soulknife.

[Erik Vale]

*Takes a look through wizard school powers*
I've decided to change my mind on my first opinion.
This class can either be junk so horrible I wouldn't touch it with a 10ft pole. Moderately optimized, preferably equiped with a conductive scatter weapon, this class turns into a monster.

Some examples, after the first all available from level 1.
Arcane Blast [1d6+1d6/odd level] applied to all your conductive attacks. [Level 4+]
Take control of others summons at will [if you can make a CL check].
Dimension door as a swift action 5ft+5ft/2 levels.
Roll a d20. Replace any roll in your turn with that roll.
Create Objects that last for a minute within a scaling weight limit.
Scrying Sensor of a range of 100ft+Level
Touch to Daze for a round... Applyable with Conductive Shotgun.
Touch to affect people with Charm Monster [Max of your HD, not CL]. Applyable with Conductive Shotgun [What do you know, defeat really does mean friendship!]
Everyone within 30ft who fails a will save [10+.5level+Int] thinks your supposed to be there.
Range Touch to Entangle. Applyable to Conductive Shotgun.
Scaling Bonus to a physical stat.
The same, + Armor Bonus.
Gain enchanted natural weapons... Again, scales.
Armor bonus to AC.
Bonus to Saves vs Spells and SLAs.


And best for last, being out of order.
Command And Turn Undead, and due to wording, avaliable unlimited times per day... No control cap.
This is avaliable since level 1.
Rejoice, we finally have a class that can control armies of the undead.

So... This class can be quite nasty in the hands of someone with a brain. Not as much out and out power, better and worse than the 3.5 Warlock in some ways but... Well... Given increased WBL and the potential avaliable, I'd rather get in a fight with a 3.5 Warlock over this one, as this one is both laughable and horrendously broken at the same time.
Like a optimized truenamer.


Edit: For those who'll point out guns aren't always avaliable, Conductive Bow + Splintercloud arrow will do almost as well for affecting multiple targets, and if not a conductive bow still gives a horrendous range boost.

Edit: I'd put the class at Tier 4, with it being optimisable up to 2 quickly or down to 5.

[Soranar]

I'd just adjust the eldritch blast damage to scale evenly (like a rogue's sneak attack)

Give him d8 hitpoints instead of d6

Give him the same skills as a bard's

Give him x4 skillpoints per level

Double his number of known invocations (12 is just very limited, forces you to rely on use magic device a lot)

Make eldritch blast bypass DR and SR automatically instead of requiring a specific type of blast to attack magic immune creatures (which just shut you down completely until level 12 otherwise).

[tyriuth]

I like the pathfinder's blast ability more than the 3.5's one, but that's mostly just because it's a straight 1d6/2 levels and doesn't drop like 3.5's warlock. The fact that deals elemental damage, rather being a spell, is nice too meaning; you don't have to waste feats on spell penetration etc...

[Psyren]

It's really weird. All their abilities are Su yet they still have to deal with ASF for some reason. They boosted the damage over the standard warlock, but they lost so much of what made the 3.5 warlock cool (no dark/fey flavor, poor skills, no crafting, and no flight.) The DR is wonky - you have to choose two things that overcome it, so just pick two of the elemental damage options (which would have bypassed your DR anyway), but even with that little trick the amount is still pathetically weak. They have no fiendish resilience either and no ability to take 10 on UMD.

The "invocations" are largely a joke. Levitate is very poor man's flight and they get nothing better. You are stuck with SM2 until level 20. You can lock a door or chest by touching it, so long as you don't ever let go. The bursts have no reflex save, but even if that's not a typo they're still weak. You can analyze dweomer but not detect magic. It's just all over the place. And to top it off, there's no way I can see that it can prestige.

All in all, it's not Adamant's best work; they played it way too safe with this one.

[Zanos]

As the warlock increases in level, he becomes resistant to certain effects. At 3rd level, the warlock receives damage reduction 2 against physical attacks. The warlock must also choose three effects from the following list: cold, cold iron, electricity, fire, or silver. The damage reduction does not count against the three chosen effects.

At higher levels the damage reduction increases. In lieu of an increase, the warlock can remove one of the three effects from his list. He may only do this twice; at least one effect must always be able to overcome his damage reduction.
This isn't very well edited either.