Two Ordained Champion Questions:

[ThreeDSix]

Hello Playground!



Complete Champion, pg. 91:

Holy Warrior (Sp): At 5th level, you can spend one daily use of your turn/rebuke undead ability as a swift action to king your Wisdom into play in combat. For 5 rounds after you activate this ability, you can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength modifier on attack rolls and damage rolls.

How would the above ability from the Ordained Champion mesh with this one:



From D&Dtools.eu:

BoED, pg. 44:
Intuitive Attack [Exalted, Fighter Bonus Feat]:

You fight by faith more than brute strength.
Prerequisite

Base attack bonus +1,
Benefit

With a simple weapon of your size or a natural weapon, you may use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls.



And secondly:



Complete Champion, pg. 90:

Modified Spontaneous Casting (Ex): If you have cleric levels, you lose the ability to spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells. Instead, you can swap out previously prepared cleric spells for any spells of equal or lower level from the War domain. This alteration applies even to levels you gain as a cleric after becoming an ordained champion.
If you are not a cleric, modified spontaneous casting does not apply to you, even if you can spontaneously cast some other kind of spell, such as summon nature's ally.

Does taking the following Feat supersede the above class Ability? Do they mesh in any way, or does the above ability always trump the following feat?



From D&Dtools.eu:

Complete Champion, p. 62:
Spontaneous Domains [General]:

You need not prepare your domain spells in advance.

Prerequisite: Ability to cast 3rd-level spells, access to two or more cleric domains

Benefit: When preparing your spells for the day, you can leave your domain slots open. You can then choose, when the situation arises, to cast any of the domain spells you could normally have prepared for a given level. However, you are still limited to one domain spell per level per day.

Normal: Clerics must prepare their domain spells before casting.



I would like to enter this PRC as a cleric (cloistered) but I would like to keep the versatility of being able to cast any domain spells, not just those from the war domain.



Thanks for any comments! :smallsmile:

[Sayt]

Holy Warrior and Intuitive attack are both replacement effects, so they don't stack, although Intuitive doesn't give you wisdom to damage.

[Doctor Awkward]

Complete Champion, pg. 91:

Holy Warrior (Sp): At 5th level, you can spend one daily use of your turn/rebuke undead ability as a swift action to king your Wisdom into play in combat. For 5 rounds after you activate this ability, you can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Strength modifier on attack rolls and damage rolls.
How would the above ability from the Ordained Champion mesh with this one:

From D&Dtools.eu:

BoED, pg. 44:
Intuitive Attack [Exalted, Fighter Bonus Feat]:

You fight by faith more than brute strength.
Prerequisite

Base attack bonus +1,
Benefit

With a simple weapon of your size or a natural weapon, you may use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls.
Does taking the following Feat supersede the above class Ability? Do they mesh in any way, or does the above ability always trump the following feat?

They don't interact at all. One replaces Str with Wis, and the other also replaces Str with Wis. Now if one said ADD your wisdom modifier, then you might have something.



Complete Champion, pg. 90:

Modified Spontaneous Casting (Ex): If you have cleric levels, you lose the ability to spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells. Instead, you can swap out previously prepared cleric spells for any spells of equal or lower level from the War domain. This alteration applies even to levels you gain as a cleric after becoming an ordained champion.
If you are not a cleric, modified spontaneous casting does not apply to you, even if you can spontaneously cast some other kind of spell, such as summon nature's ally.
Does taking the following Feat supersede the above class Ability? Do they mesh in any way, or does the above ability always trump the following feat?


From D&Dtools.eu:

Complete Champion, p. 62:
Spontaneous Domains [General]:

You need not prepare your domain spells in advance.

Prerequisite: Ability to cast 3rd-level spells, access to two or more cleric domains

Benefit: When preparing your spells for the day, you can leave your domain slots open. You can then choose, when the situation arises, to cast any of the domain spells you could normally have prepared for a given level. However, you are still limited to one domain spell per level per day.

Normal: Clerics must prepare their domain spells before casting.
Sure they interact. The first allows you to throw for War spells, and the second allows you to leave domain slots open to cast any War domain spell you want.


I would like to enter this PRC as a cleric (cloistered) but I would like to keep the versatility of being able to cast any domain spells, not just those from the war domain.

Nope.

[Troacctid]

Spontaneous Domain Casting, despite having "Spontaneous" in its name, is not the same as spontaneous casting. It lets you leave your domain slots empty and choose which spell to cast from them later. Take note of the glossary definition for spontaneous casting:


spontaneous casting: The special ability of a cleric to drop a prepared spell (but not a domain spell) to gain a cure or inflict spell of the same level or lower, or of a druid to drop a prepared spell to gain a summon nature’s ally spell of the same level or lower. Since the substitution of spells occurs on the spur of the moment, clerics need not prepare their cure or inflict spells in advance, nor do druids need to prepare their summon nature’s ally spells in advance.

Ordained Champion only replaces this specific ability. Even if it did affect the feat, it would only interfere if your domains included cure or inflict spells.

Note, of course, that even without the feat, you can still prepare non-War domain spells in your domain slots. Ordained Champion doesn't take away your other domains. Heck, it even grants you an extra domain.

[ThreeDSix]

Spontaneous Domain Casting, despite having "Spontaneous" in its name, is not the same as spontaneous casting. It lets you leave your domain slots empty and choose which spell to cast from them later. Take note of the glossary definition for spontaneous casting:



Ordained Champion only replaces this specific ability. Even if it did affect the feat, it would only interfere if your domains included cure or inflict spells.

Note, of course, that even without the feat, you can still prepare non-War domain spells in your domain slots. Ordained Champion doesn't take away your other domains. Heck, it even grants you an extra domain.

Aaaaaah! Thankyou for giving me one of those beautiful Eureka moments. :smallsmile:

I suspected that Intuitive Attack and Holy Warrior didn't stack - was just hoping against hope that I was wrong. :smallfrown:

Knowing that the feat Spontaneous casting has nothing to do with a clerics Spontaneous casting ability is good to know - as counter intuitive as it sounds.

Thanks everyone for the inputs! Back to the drawing board! :smallbiggrin:

[nedz]

What about the Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF (PHB 2 p37): Lose the ability to spontaneously cast cure spells, gain the ability to spontaneously cast spells from one of your domains. This should stack with OC's ability: giving you Spontaneous Casting from 2 Domains, one being War.

Or play a Spontaneous Cleric (UA or SRD, here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm))
This gives spontaneous casting of all your spells known, as per Sorcerer, plus your domain spells.

[Troacctid]

Ordained Champion says you spontaneously cast War domain spells "instead" of cure or inflict spells. If you can't spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells, by my reading, the ability shouldn't apply. But AFAIK there's no rule that covers the interaction, so ask your DM.

[nedz]

Ordained Champion says you spontaneously cast War domain spells "instead" of cure or inflict spells. If you can't spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells, by my reading, the ability shouldn't apply. But AFAIK there's no rule that covers the interaction, so ask your DM.

OK they don't stack since OC's ability is the same as the ACF, but with a fixed choice of the War domain.

It doesn't work for the Spontaneous Cleric option, but that's moot since OC already gives you the War domain - which you should be able to cast spontaneously anyway, well the wording assumes that you only have two domains but CDiv covers this I think.