Do Ki abilities work in an Antimagic Field?

[JoeJ]

My first thought was that they do, but the PHB has an entire paragraph explaining how Ki is magic, which implies that Antimagic Field should shut ki abilities down. Also, Detect Magic should detect ki abilities in use. (Counterspell and Dispel Magic, OTOH, specifically affect spells, not all magic.)

[TheOOB]

"supernatural" abilities are not specifically called out in antimagic field, spells and magic items are.

That said, the following line is pretty telling:

"Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it."

Ergo, if an effect can be described as magical, which ki certainly can, and it doesn't come from an artifact or diety, which ki certainly does not, I'd rule they are suppressed.

[Frenth Alunril]

I'm going to disagree...

This is using your training to "harness the mystic energy of ki."

Further, at 6th level they add some errata to suggest that your strikes are included with the property of magic items for overcoming resistance, etc. This doesn't qualify them as magical, simply puts their calculation into that field of damage types.

Now, to get a little esoteric, and I apologize as this is referenced from no bookly source: "Ki" is an extraordinary, disciplined, release of energy (Ki= energy, (japanese Tenki=weather, Genki?="feeling good," Ninki=popular, and Maji(honki)="Really?")) from the living soul (and we can debate the access of nature energy and Ki, but that's why we have druids, and elemental monks), and "Ki" would certainly be, by all theological accounts, drawing power from a divinely created artifact.

Now, to digress, given the new freedom of 5th to revert to rule 0, and call out specifics in the place of non specifics, I don't believe Ki is "specifically defined" as magical, and thereby, will not be cancelled by the conjuring and evocative abjurations of wizardly hucksters!

(I apologize for the rum soaked fingers and excessive parenthesis)

[Sartharina]

Also - Ki may not be part of manipulating The Weave.

[JoeJ]

I'm going to disagree...

This is using your training to "harness the mystic energy of ki."

Further, at 6th level they add some errata to suggest that your strikes are included with the property of magic items for overcoming resistance, etc. This doesn't qualify them as magical, simply puts their calculation into that field of damage types.

Now, to get a little esoteric, and I apologize as this is referenced from no bookly source: "Ki" is an extraordinary, disciplined, release of energy (Ki= energy, (japanese Tenki=weather, Genki?="feeling good," Ninki=popular, and Maji(honki)="Really?")) from the living soul (and we can debate the access of nature energy and Ki, but that's why we have druids, and elemental monks), and "Ki" would certainly be, by all theological accounts, drawing power from a divinely created artifact.

Now, to digress, given the new freedom of 5th to revert to rule 0, and call out specifics in the place of non specifics, I don't believe Ki is "specifically defined" as magical, and thereby, will not be cancelled by the conjuring and evocative abjurations of wizardly hucksters!

(I apologize for the rum soaked fingers and excessive parenthesis)

But if you look on p. 76 under The Magic of Ki it specifically calls ki a "magical energy" and says that it's "an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse." A sentence later it talks about monks creating "magical effects." That makes it sound like ki is another form of the same "weave" that wizards and clerics manipulate.

[Frenth Alunril]

Interesting...

But I am going to propose this retort: Those things that come before the quick build and feature descriptions are simply color. "The Magic of Ki" is flavour text for the uninitiated, because their very next (and more specific definition of Ki) calls it a mystical energy. Given that the "Weave" is not analogous with the "Life force that suffuses the multiverse" I would posit that "Ki is mystical over magical, thereby, not effected in an antimagic field."

I would take it a further step and point out that Life is a resultant effect of Ki, if an antimagic field were to cancel Ki, then it would cancel Life, and this would finally end the problem of wizards ruining the game :)

[Krymoar]

But if you look on p. 76 under The Magic of Ki it specifically calls ki a "magical energy" and says that it's "an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse." A sentence later it talks about monks creating "magical effects." That makes it sound like ki is another form of the same "weave" that wizards and clerics manipulate.

Pretty sure this is just trying to explain it, as some ki abilities let you cast spells, which would be considered magic.

On p. 78, which is when it is explaining the Monk Features, there is a section for ki and it makes no mention of it.

Pretty sure mechanically the answer is no, but I will keep looking.

Ninja'd

[MaxWilson]

But I am going to propose this retort: Those things that come before the quick build and feature descriptions are simply color. "The Magic of Ki" is flavour text for the uninitiated, because their very next (and more specific definition of Ki) calls it a mystical energy.

You're aware that "mystical" and "magical" are synonyms?

[Krymoar]

The Weave insert on p. 206, (which is mostly fluff, I understand but..) explains the magic of all the different users.

Arcane Magic - Wizards, Warlocks, Sorcerers, and Bards, says lower down, Eldritch Knights and Arcane tricksters also use Arcane magic

Divine Magic - Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers

Completely leaves out Monks, and Barbarians for that matter who also use supernatural abilities.





There is no reason to consider what the Monk or Barbarian do Magical, except when they actually cast spells, unless you are just making rules that are not there or find some that I missed.

[iLXeNk]

But if you look on p. 76 under The Magic of Ki it specifically calls ki a "magical energy" and says that it's "an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse." A sentence later it talks about monks creating "magical effects." That makes it sound like ki is another form of the same "weave" that wizards and clerics manipulate.


This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse—specifically, the element that flows through living bodies. Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects and exceed their bodies' physical capabilities, and some of their special attacks can hinder the flow of ki in their opponents. Using this energy, monks channel uncanny speed and strength into their unarmed strikes. As they gain experience, their martial training and their mastery of ki gives them more power over their bodies and the bodies of their foes.
At no point in time does this state they manipulate the Weave which is what all spell casters draw their power from.


All magic depends on the Weave, though different kinds of magic access it in a variety of ways. The spells of wizards, warlocks, sorcerers, and bards are commonly called arcane magic. These spells rely on an understanding— learned or intuitive—of the workings of the Weave. The caster plucks directly at the strands of the Weave to create the desired effect. Eldritch knights and arcane tricksters also use arcane magic. The spells of clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers are called divine magic. These spellcasters’ access to the Weave is mediated by divine power— gods, the divine forces of nature, or the sacred weight of a paladin’s oath.

Whenever a magic effect is created, the threads of the Weave intertwine, twist, and fold to make the effect possible. When characters use divination spells such as detect magic or identify, they glimpse the Weave. A spell such as dispel magic smooths the Weave. Spells such as antimagic field rearrange the Weave so that magic flows around, rather than through, the area affected by the spell. And in places where the Weave is damaged or torn, magic works in unpredictable ways—or not at all.[/B]
Monks are not even listed in The Weave of Magic so they are not spell casters.


A 10-foot-radius invisible sphere of antimagic surrounds you. This area is divorced from the magical energy that suffuses the multiverse. Within the sphere, spells can’t be cast, summoned creatures disappear, and even magic items become mundane. Until the spell ends, the sphere moves with you, centered on you.
This piece of fluff is the only thing that somewhat supports your claim as the Magic of Ki says "This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse". However they are not manipulating the weave to cast spells they are harnessing their inner power to create martial (magicalish Element Monk) feats while most of the mechanical stuff says basically no spells or anything magical, magical specifically means drawing power from the Weave which I've already pointed out Monks do not do.

So I would argue that NO Antimagic Field does not effect a Monk. So mechanically you could prevent a Monk from using any ability that says cast but it would not inhibit any other Monk abilities.

*edit*
stupid ninjas.....
*edit*
tweaks..

[JoeJ]

Is there any other place in the PHB where the term "mystic energy" is used? What indicates that it isn't just a synonym for magic, which it is in normal non-game English?

I don't think we can draw any conclusion from the fact that monks aren't mentioned in The Weave of Magic on p. 205 because it doesn't say anything even about Way of the Four Elements monks, which definitely do cast spells. At least, not unless WotFE spells - which are called by that term and use the general spellcasting rules in ch. 10 - are somehow not magical.

[Suichimo]

Does your Ki ability mimic/replicate an existing magical ability, Element Monk's Fireballs for example? Sorry, it doesn't work.

Does your Ki ability do something else, Flurry of Blows is a Ki ability iirc? You're fine.

IMO this will be a case by case thing.

[AgentPaper]

I won't comment on the RAW interpretation of this, or even the RAI for that matter, but to me I'd say Ki abilities should work within an anti-magic field, as long as they aren't overtly magical (ie: most to all of the Elemental Monk's stuff). My reasoning here is that Ki is essentially the life-force and energy of a living creature, which a monk can learn to manipulate and refine to pull off his extraordinary feats. An anti-magic field suppresses magic, but it can't interfere with magic that is infused into something, such as the magic in a magic sword, or the Ki or life-force in a human or other creature.

This is evidenced by the fact that while magic items are suppressed within an anti-magic field, they return to full functioning order as soon as they are removed. My interpretation of this is that the anti-magic field isn't able to affect the magic within the item, but instead prevents any magic from escaping it, making it appear to be lifeless and non-magical within the field. Since a Monk can use Ki for, for example Flurry of Blows or Stunning Strike without needing to move it outside of his body, he can use those abilities in an anti-magic field without issue. However, when a wizard tries to cast a spell, the magic that he would normally use to do so is prevented from leaving his body, and therefore the spell can't be cast. Same thing for a Elemental monk trying to use his elemental abilities: As soon as he tries to send the Ki outside of himself to create the effects, it is suppressed and nothing happens.

[iLXeNk]

Is there any other place in the PHB where the term "mystic energy" is used? What indicates that it isn't just a synonym for magic, which it is in normal non-game English?

I don't think we can draw any conclusion from the fact that monks aren't mentioned in The Weave of Magic on p. 205 because it doesn't say anything even about Way of the Four Elements monks, which definitely do cast spells. At least, not unless WotFE spells - which are called by that term and use the general spellcasting rules in ch. 10 - are somehow not magical.

There is a difference between fluff and mechanical.
As I stated before Antimagic Field will mechanically shut down any Monk ability that says cast.
However fluff wise Antimagic Field cuts off access to the magical energy that suffuses the multiverse (basically the Weave) which all magic users use. Monks draw on energy from within and not from the Weave thus Monks would not be hindered at all.

[Krymoar]

Tranquility says it "give you the effect of a sanctuary spell." It then says the saving throw DC of the spell is... but it gives the formula which is the same as your Ki Save DC, but it does not refer to it as your Ki Save DC

Under Shadow Arts, it specifically says you can use your ki to duplicate the effects of certain spells. It then lists the spells. I think these would be considered spells or spell like effects.

Under Way of The Elements, Under Disciple of the Elements it refers to the Disciplines as Magical Disciplines

I'll let you be the judge as to whether these count as Rules or Fluff, but it is important to note:

None of the other Way of Open Hand abilities use this description.

Only the spells that the Shadow Path can cast are referred to in this way. The teleport is at no time referred to as magical.

None of the Monk "General" abilities are referred to this way.

[rollingForInit]

Personally, I would say that any abilities the monks have that can be used to cast spells are affected by an antimagic field. A shadow monk's ability to cast Darkness wouldn't work, nor would an elemental monk's ability to cast Burning Hands work. A shadow monk would still be able to use its power to teleport, however, and an elemental monk can still infuse their hands with fire/air to deal additional damage (per the appropriate abilities).

I certainly wouldn't say that using ki to make extra attacks should be hindered in an antimagic field.

Pretty easy way to rule, since it's always very obvious if an ability allows the monk to duplicate the effect of a spell.

[silveralen]

Antimagic field


A 10-ft radius invisible sphere of antimagic surrounds you. This area is divorced from the magical energy which suffuses the multiverse.

The magic of Ki


Monks make careful study of a magical energy known as ki. This energy is an element of the magic which suffuses the multiverse

Yes Ki is a type of magic, it is explicitly called out as part of the magical energy which suffuses the multiverse, which is what antimagic field explicitly prevents people from accessing. Even if the Ki is within your own body, the antimagic field prevents it from being interacted with, much like magic items cannot access the magic that is infused into their own being.

RAW is perfectly clear, the exact same phrasing is used in both cases.

[Frenth Alunril]

Is there any other place in the PHB where the term "mystic energy" is used? What indicates that it isn't just a synonym for magic, which it is in normal non-game English?

I don't think we can draw any conclusion from the fact that monks aren't mentioned in The Weave of Magic on p. 205 because it doesn't say anything even about Way of the Four Elements monks, which definitely do cast spells. At least, not unless WotFE spells - which are called by that term and use the general spellcasting rules in ch. 10 - are somehow not magical.


You're aware that "mystical" and "magical" are synonyms?

Yes, but by that defense the whole of space and time come to pieces, fall into the rabbit-hole of defining reality without synonyms, you will blow your own mind.

In the specificity of language, especially jargon related to "gamerspeak" Magical is a proper term for dungeons and dragons that is considered a "type" where as, Mystic (not even Mystical) even being employed, lends credence to the notion that it is not of the magical type. In rules-speak, synonyms are exclusive of each other.

As to synonyms and flowery language:

Lo, eldritch incantations invoke evocation! The fiend that fosters thought hath found a friend in me!
(See, spell spells spell spells! I like my brain!)

and I apologize...

[Fwiffo86]

To OP,

I believe an anti-magic field is just as effective. In the monk ability description, it clearly states something on the order of:

Using Ki allows the monk to cast the spell without the use of material, somatic or verbal components.

I don't have a page reference because I am AFB.

Other Ki abilities that do not replicate/cast spells I believe are unaffected.

[Frenth Alunril]

Antimagic field



The magic of Ki



Yes Ki is a type of magic, it is explicitly called out as part of the magical energy which suffuses the multiverse, which is what antimagic field explicitly prevents people from accessing. Even if the Ki is within your own body, the antimagic field prevents it from being interacted with, much like magic items cannot access the magic that is infused into their own being.

RAW is perfectly clear, the exact same phrasing is used in both cases.

interesting abbreviation of quoted text, as it goes on to say "-Specifically, the element that flows through living bodies" which takes us back to the interesting part of "Except those created by an artifact or a diety." and the thological concept of life-energy, ie The soul, being a divine artifact.

Thing's don't drop dead in the antimagic field, because the life-force isn't interrupted meaning monks still have access to their ki, but I'm sure it doesn't "Say this specifically" though, it will be interesting to see how it is addressed. I highly doubt the intent was to kill monks.

I guess, ultimately, it comes down to how you "RAW" and what kind of a DM you are.

[silveralen]

interesting abbreviation of quoted text, as it goes on to say "-Specifically, the element that flows through living bodies" which takes us back to the interesting part of "Except those created by an artifact or a diety." and the thological concept of life-energy, ie The soul, being a divine artifact.

Thing's don't drop dead in the antimagic field, because the life-force isn't interrupted meaning monks still have access to their ki, but I'm sure it doesn't "Say this specifically" though, it will be interesting to see how it is addressed. I highly doubt the intent was to kill monks.

I guess, ultimately, it comes down to how you "RAW" and what kind of a DM you are.

Hmmm, actually that's a good loop hole, if humanity (or whatever) was created by a godit my qualify. On the other hand, most likely the PC was created by two NPCs having sex, unless everything a human creates counts as coming form the god who made humanity first.

Ki in DnD is never explicitly called out as being essential to life. It's a type of magic energy which flows through life. A magic item in an antimagic field doesn't permanently destroy it or even permanently lose the magic abilities, it is a magic object it just can't access said magic. The Ki is still there, the monk just can't do anything with it, and being temporarily unable to effect your Ki does not kill you.

RAI I'd deny them any effect that was magical in nature, and if mystic energy, the magic of Ki, and Ki explicitly stated as a type of magic aren't enough to have you classify it as magic from a designer intent standpoint I have no idea what could. Ki is magic. 100%. Stated over and over in the book.

On the other hand, monks dieing in antimagic field is no way RAW, nor even hinted at in any passage. Ki is never stated as being integral to life, and monk is mentioned as manipulating the opponent's Ki to create effects, the effect of suppressed is Ki is never discussed.

[pwykersotz]

I like the ruling of suppressing spell replication like Water Whip but allowing things like flurry.

2cp

[jkat718]

interesting abbreviation of quoted text, as it goes on to say "-Specifically, the element that flows through living bodies" which takes us back to the interesting part of "Except those created by an artifact or a diety." and the thological concept of life-energy, ie The soul, being a divine artifact.
An interesting side note: "Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces" (PHB, p. 99), then wouldn't Sorcerers be unaffected by an Antimagic Field, in which "Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it" (PHB, p. 213)? Because the answer is, of course, "no, they are affected," I'm assuming that the creation-by-artifact-or-deity must be direct, rather than indirect (ie. a sorcerer's magic is created by a deity via the Sorcerer, not by the deity itself). Just something to consider.


I guess, ultimately, it comes down to how you "RAW" and what kind of a DM you are.
Can "to RAW" be a verb now? I think it should be.


Just for future reference, I will be including the full text that has been quoted here, to ensure that those who cannot access their copy of the book can be fully informed:


Whatever their discipline, monks are united in their ability to magically harness the energy that flows in their bodies. Whether channeled as a striking display of combat prowess or a subtler focus of defensive ability and speed, this energy infuses all that a monk does.


Monks make careful study of a magical energy that most monastic traditions call ki. This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse—specifically, the element that flows through living bodies. Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects and exceed their bodies' physical capabilities, and some o f their special attacks can hinder the flow of ki in their opponents. Using this energy, monks channel uncanny speed and strength into their unarmed strikes. As they gain experience, their martial training and their mastery of ki gives them more power over their bodies and the bodies of their foes.


A 10-foot-radius invisible sphere of antimagic surrounds you. This area is divorced from the magical energy that suffuses the multiverse. Within the sphere, spells can't be cast, summoned creatures disappear, and even magic items become mundane. Until the spell ends, the sphere moves with you, centered on you. Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it. A slot expended to cast a suppressed spell is consumed. While an effect is suppressed, it doesn't function, but the time it spends suppressed counts against its duration.

I will type up the quotes under "What is a Spell?" and "The Weave of Magic" later, when I have the time.

[Krymoar]

Hmmm, actually that's a good loop hole, if humanity (or whatever) was created by a godit my qualify. On the other hand, most likely the PC was created by two NPCs having sex, unless everything a human creates counts as coming form the god who made humanity first.

Ki in DnD is never explicitly called out as being essential to life. It's a type of magic energy which flows through life. A magic item in an antimagic field doesn't permanently destroy it or even permanently lose the magic abilities, it is a magic object it just can't access said magic. The Ki is still there, the monk just can't do anything with it, and being temporarily unable to effect your Ki does not kill you.

RAI I'd deny them any effect that was magical in nature, and if mystic energy, the magic of Ki, and Ki explicitly stated as a type of magic aren't enough to have you classify it as magic from a designer intent standpoint I have no idea what could. Ki is magic. 100%. Stated over and over in the book.

On the other hand, monks dieing in antimagic field is no way RAW, nor even hinted at in any passage. Ki is never stated as being integral to life, and monk is mentioned as manipulating the opponent's Ki to create effects, the effect of suppressed is Ki is never discussed.

You are treading on dangerous ground when you do not separate the Fluff section of class descriptions from the Mechanical section of a class.

As I stated above, the Monk abilities tell you in their mechanics section which abilities are referred to as magical and which ones duplicate spells.

If you say that the fluff says all ki is magical it also says:


Veteran soldiers, military officers, trained bodyguards, dedicated knights, and similar figures are fighters.

Does this mean that ALL veteran soldiers are fighters? All dedicated knights? Surely not, because that would ridiculous.

[Frenth Alunril]

You are treading on dangerous ground when you do not separate the Fluff section of class descriptions from the Mechanical section of a class.

As I stated above, the Monk abilities tell you in their mechanics section which abilities are referred to as magical and which ones duplicate spells.

If you say that the fluff says all ki is magical it also says:



Does this mean that ALL veteran soldiers are fighters? All dedicated knights? Surely not, because that would ridiculous.

In fact, I might even say that Accessing Ki (quite literally life force as defined in outside sources) in a antimagic field would be perfectly possible, even in the "Duplication of spell effects" because you are drawing from the life-force, not the weave. If All living things do not die in the field, then you must not be cut off from that specific infused energy.

I guess I am breaking the rules by using an outside understanding of the mystic notions of Ki. A Body with Ki is alive, one without Ki is dead, one that can access it for incredible acts, is a monk.

But, as others have said, it comes down to a DM call.

My call is, "Monks can drop fireballs on Antimagic-protected wizards."

[Frenth Alunril]

An interesting side note: "Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces" (PHB, p. 99), then wouldn't Sorcerers be unaffected by an Antimagic Field, in which "Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it" (PHB, p. 213)? Because the answer is, of course, "no, they are affected," I'm assuming that the creation-by-artifact-or-deity must be direct, rather than indirect (ie. a sorcerer's magic is created by a deity via the Sorcerer, not by the deity itself). Just something to consider.


Well, the problem with Sorcs is that they access their ancestral (now dubiously questionable magic, do dragons still cast? To the MM with me!) "Magic" through the weave, and they are accessing "Magic" where monks are focusing the power of their life. I suppose a real question would be, "Would a Blood Mage find their magic suppressed?"


Can "to RAW" be a verb now? I think it should be.


I like to RAW and to RAI. I think we should!

[silveralen]

You are treading on dangerous ground when you do not separate the Fluff section of class descriptions from the Mechanical section of a class.

As I stated above, the Monk abilities tell you in their mechanics section which abilities are referred to as magical and which ones duplicate spells.

Right, the fact that the wording describing Ki is almost word for word the same as antimagic field has no bearing. Despite that section being one where it literally explains what Ki is and how monks use it, establishing it point blank as a form of magic.

Your version makes no sense. If it only blocks spells, things like water whip work because they aren't officially spells, yet other element abilities don't. Nonsensical, and again I fail to see why a section literally explaining the nature of Ki isn't relevant for determing is Ki abilities are blocked by antimagic.

[Shadow]

I like the fact that there's an entire page of debate when the correct answer is two words:
DM's call

[Yagyujubei]

Right, the fact that the wording describing Ki is almost word for word the same as antimagic field has no bearing. Despite that section being one where it literally explains what Ki is and how monks use it, establishing it point blank as a form of magic.

Your version makes no sense. If it only blocks spells, things like water whip work because they aren't officially spells, yet other element abilities don't. Nonsensical, and again I fail to see why a section literally explaining the nature of Ki isn't relevant for determing is Ki abilities are blocked by antimagic.

yeah, that is right, fluff has no bearing on mechanics, because it's optional. It's only there in case you want to base part or all of your character off it, but is by no means automatically applied.

[CyberThread]

Ki = magical. Not psychic.

Even the psychic 4 armed bugs produce magical energy.

With the design process trying to keep things simple. I think we should assume magical transparency is default for this edition. Anti magic fields will ruin a telepaths day as much as an evokers.

[Ghost Nappa]

I like the fact that there's an entire page of debate when the correct answer is two words:
DM's call


There's a DM for the internet?

Edit: Probably wouldn't allow spell-emulation stuff, but so long as the Ki doesn't ever need to be released from the body to be used, it seems fine.

[rlc]

thing that somewhat supports your claim as the Magic of Ki says "This energy is an element of the magic that suffuses the multiverse".

it also says "magical effects" in the next sentence, which is also specifically mentioned in the description for antimagic field.

[Shining Wrath]

Broadly speaking, there's two ways to look at this.


Everything that doesn't work in our mundane world is magic, and an AMF ought to shut it down. Dragons should lose their flight and breath, giant spiders should turn into a gooey mess as their exoskeletons lose the ability to hold them up, undead should die, and so on.
There's something I'll call Magick, which powers all the stuff that doesn't work in our mundane world. Arcane and divine magic access Magick through the Weave (5e & Forgotten Realms) or some other non-specified Weave-like mechanism. A flying dragon or a gargantuan spider or a zombie access Magick via non-Weave methods, and an AMF has no effect on them.


In version (1), ki is shut down by the AMF; in version (2), it is not. Even if the ki power imitates a magical spell cast via the Weave to the last detail, the monk is still accessing Magick via a non-Weave mechanism and ignores the AMF.

I'll rule it as version (2) at my table; your mileage may differ, and may you find fun therein.

[Shadow]

Broadly speaking, there's two ways to look at this.


Everything that doesn't work in our mundane world is magic, and an AMF ought to shut it down. Dragons should lose their flight and breath, giant spiders should turn into a gooey mess as their exoskeletons lose the ability to hold them up, undead should die, and so on.
There's something I'll call Magick, which powers all the stuff that doesn't work in our mundane world. Arcane and divine magic access Magick through the Weave (5e & Forgotten Realms) or some other non-specified Weave-like mechanism. A flying dragon or a gargantuan spider or a zombie access Magick via non-Weave methods, and an AMF has no effect on them.


In version (1), ki is shut down by the AMF; in version (2), it is not. Even if the ki power imitates a magical spell cast via the Weave to the last detail, the monk is still accessing Magick via a non-Weave mechanism and ignores the AMF.

I'll rule it as version (2) at my table; your mileage may differ, and may you find fun therein.

So basically what you're saying is that there are two and only two options: one of them turns AMF into an I Win Button which slays undead/giant insects/giant spiders and grounds dragons without their breath and a host of other winning effects.... while the other blatantly disregards what the PHB states about Ki and allows casting spells in AMFs by certain classes via certain features.
Somehow I think there is a third option (or more) that you're overlooking.

[iLXeNk]

it also says "magical effects" in the next sentence, which is also specifically mentioned in the description for antimagic field.

{Scrubbed}

[rlc]

{Scrubbed}

[iLXeNk]

{Scrubbed}

[Shadow]

If you had read the rest of my post you would see that it did NOT ignore that sentence. It also went on to say that there is a big difference between Fluff and Mechanics.

{Scrubbed}

"At no point in time does this state they manipulate the Weave which is what all spell casters draw their power from."
Not in that particular sentence, no. But as he said, it does specifically state that using Ki creates "magical effects."
Magical effects has a specific line under The Weave of Magic, whiich reads: "Whenever a magic effect is created, the threads of the Weave intertwine, twist, and fold to make the effect possible. "

To which you immediately tell us that: "Monks are not even listed in The Weave of Magic so they are not spell casters."

Monks don't need to be specifically mentioned in any way, because Ki itself has been referenced.
Ki creates magical effects, as per the description of Ki.
Magical effects manipulate the Weave, as per the description of the Weave.
Therefore Ki manipulates the Weave.
Full stop.

{Scrubbed}

[Krymoar]

Right, the fact that the wording describing Ki is almost word for word the same as antimagic field has no bearing. Despite that section being one where it literally explains what Ki is and how monks use it, establishing it point blank as a form of magic.

Your version makes no sense. If it only blocks spells, things like water whip work because they aren't officially spells, yet other element abilities don't. Nonsensical, and again I fail to see why a section literally explaining the nature of Ki isn't relevant for determing is Ki abilities are blocked by antimagic.

{Scrubbed} I said in the Mechanics section of the characters, one thing is called magical specifically. Elemental Disciplines. One thing refers as "duplicating the effects of spells" Shadow Arts. Santuary Refers to "This Spell"

From Anti-magic field:


Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it.




I don't think anyone could consider ALL monk abilities magical effects. What I was saying was Elemental Disciplines In Their own description, In the mechanics section of the class call themselves magical effects.

Shadow arts say they "Duplicate the effects of spells"- Spells are magical and so are their effects. I'm not sure if "duplicating a spell" creates a Magical effect. But you CAST the spell mechanically, so I would say yes.


I definitely do not think all Ki abilities are considered magical, only the ones that are said to be so in the Mechanical section of the Monk Class.

[CyberThread]

Ki = magical. Not psychic.

Even the psychic 4 armed bugs produce magical energy.

With the design process trying to keep things simple. I think we should assume magical transparency is default for this edition. Anti magic fields will ruin a telepaths day as much as an evokers.


I agree with this guy. While amf may not block stunning fist. I think it blocks water whip and shadow step

[rlc]

If you had read the rest of my post you would see that it did NOT ignore that sentence. It also went on to say that there is a big difference between Fluff and Mechanics. Also you read intention where there is none, there is no emotion on the internet, only what the reader perceives. Perhaps you think I came off bent out of shape because you wanted me to be. I don't care one way or the other. I just want to make sure you didn't disregard the rest of my post for one sentence which is clearly seems like you have.

{Scrubbed} while there might be a difference between fluff and mechanics, it's important to know what that difference is. if something is specifically called a "magical effect," then it is a magical effect. that's not just fluff.


I don't think anyone could consider ALL monk abilities magical effects.

of course not. there are some things that are pretty obviously not magical that monks do, but...
While amf may not block stunning fist. I think it blocks water whip and shadow step

[Vaynor]

The Red Towel: Please keep the conversation civil. Basing a discussion on telling others that they didn't read your or others' posts is not a helpful or civil way to conduct a discussion.

[1of3]

It's pretty simple: Roll 50%, whenever a ki ability is used to see, if it works. Done.

[Shining Wrath]

So basically what you're saying is that there are two and only two options: one of them turns AMF into an I Win Button which slays undead/giant insects/giant spiders and grounds dragons without their breath and a host of other winning effects.... while the other blatantly disregards what the PHB states about Ki and allows casting spells in AMFs by certain classes via certain features.
Somehow I think there is a third option (or more) that you're overlooking.

We're discussing the effect of a particular spell on a particular class' features. The phrase "broadly speaking" means I'm simplifying a complex situation.

You've got to give a reason for why ki works some times and not others, because if a splat book comes out with the "Arcane Monk" archtype that allows a wizard to emulate every important Monk feature using spells, that should NOT mean that suddenly things you once allowed to work in an AMF suddenly stop working.