Request regarding an evil, life-sucking healer.

[SVentura77]

Hey guys, wondering if you can lend a hand real fast.

One of my (hopefully) future players is interested in playing a character who is able to draw life from enemies and heal friends. This doesn't have to happen at first level, of course. He is also interested in controlling undead, but I don't think that is his focal point.

He is impartial as to whether the character is divine or arcane based. All books are allowed (including Dragon Magazine). Edition is 3.5. Am I forgetting anything?

You don't have to tell me everything. You could just give me a hint as to what book might be good to look into and I can do the rest. If you've got character/prestige class ideas to throw at me I'd consider that an unprecedented bonus.

Thanks,
~S~

[deuxhero]

Dreamscarred Press's Vitalist (Soulthief path) is EXACTLY what you want.

Problem is 1: it's PF 2: it's (VERY good) third party PF

There isn't really much stopping it from just being backported though.

[Feint's End]

Ahm if you are OK with pathfinder there is the vitalist who can do pretty much exactly what you asked for. A soulthief vitalist with the lifeleech archetype can force people into his collective and then damage participants while healing others.

The vitalist is a psionic class from psionics expanded. Also a great choice for newer players since its one of the only 2 psionic classes which can switch their powers out daily. Generally not reliant on feats too so your player can't really screw up. Just get psionic Meditation and you are golden.

Link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/vitalist

Edit: partially swordsage'd

[Ratatoskir]

Crusader/cleric into RNV? The various healing strikes can easily fit the fluff, and... I'm just now realizing how gimped any rebuke undead would be so never mind my second point. Animate dead still works?

[SVentura77]

Yes, backporting Pathfinder is not out of the mix. I will take a look at the class and present it to him and see how he feels. If it's what you're making it out to be then I'm sure he'll be interested.

And uber thanks as well, I never would have checked PF books!

~S~

P.s. Also thanks for the crusader combo. If he doesn't dig the Vitalist then I will definitely pass this along to him (I will pass it along to him no matter what and let him decide, actually).

Keep the suggestions coming though. If there are some more options out there I would love to hear them!

Edit: Also, yes, Animate Dead still works.

[nedz]

Play a Healer, take the Sickening Grasp Reserve feat ( Complete Mage p47). People you touch feel ill.

OK, there are better options — but this would be funny.

You could also go for Cloudy Conjuration ( Complete Mage p40) and create clouds of noxious smoke whenever you heal someone. This one does involve a feat tax though.

[Sith_Happens]

The first level of Shadow Sun Ninja does this.

[Fouredged Sword]

If you are looking at Vitalist, make sure to look at the Sadist and Life-Leech archetypes. They are compatible with each other and play up the life thief angle pretty well.

You force enemies into your collective, preventing them from receiving ANY type of healing (by redirecting it towards your allies) and drain their life into your allies. When your target finally keels over, you get free bonus power points.

[Feint's End]

If you are looking at Vitalist, make sure to look at the Sadist and Life-Leech archetypes. They are compatible with each other and play up the life thief angle pretty well.

You force enemies into your collective, preventing them from receiving ANY type of healing (by redirecting it towards your allies) and drain their life into your allies. When your target finally keels over, you get free bonus power points.

Sadist is a decent option too (especially for their 1st level ability) but the loss of knacks hurts.

Anyways you can't take healing from unwilling targets ... meaning even forced members of your collective can still deny shifting their healing elsewhere.

[Fouredged Sword]

Creatures forced into your collective using Unwilling Participant are considered willing members for any collective-related effects unless they succeed on another Will save at the same DC to resist being forced into the collective.

They have to make a willsave to do any of that. Between the bonus to the save from life leech, a high wisdom, and the ability to drain health from life leech, you are pretty good at damaging stuff. It turns into a willsave for half damage at best. You have to get them to fail the save to be forced into the collective though.

You end up forcing a great deal of willsaves, but you can boost the DC fairly high. The loss of knacks isn't so big a deal, especially in a 3.5 port who won't have unlimited knacks to begin with.

[Magma Armor0]

Play a Healer, take the Sickening Grasp Reserve feat ( Complete Mage p47). People you touch feel ill.

OK, there are better options — but this would be funny.

You could also go for Cloudy Conjuration ( Complete Mage p40) and create clouds of noxious smoke whenever you heal someone. This one does involve a feat tax though.

The only problem with this, funny as it is, is that healers (the class) can't be evil.

[nedz]

The only problem with this, funny as it is, is that healers (the class) can't be evil.

Ah, sorry — my bad! Though the thread title does say evil rather than Evil.

[Feint's End]

They have to make a willsave to do any of that. Between the bonus to the save from life leech, a high wisdom, and the ability to drain health from life leech, you are pretty good at damaging stuff. It turns into a willsave for half damage at best. You have to get them to fail the save to be forced into the collective though.

You end up forcing a great deal of willsaves, but you can boost the DC fairly high. The loss of knacks isn't so big a deal, especially in a 3.5 port who won't have unlimited knacks to begin with.

Fair point ... I checked before I posted but I missed the "special" part of the feat description. The whole idea sounds hilarious then.

Meh ... I usually back port them with classes since knacks didn't exist in 3.5 anyways. I guess it is a good idea though if you limit or even lose them.

[Fouredged Sword]

Fair point ... I checked before I posted but I missed the "special" part of the feat description. The whole idea sounds hilarious then.

Meh ... I usually back port them with classes since knacks didn't exist in 3.5 anyways. I guess it is a good idea though if you limit or even lose them.

I find you have enough effects that you can throw around without daily caps that the lack of knacks isn't missed. They lose their value quickly as you level. Also, you get temp PP at the end of most combats. Refresh longer length buffs and heal with that.

[Feint's End]

I find you have enough effects that you can throw around without daily caps that the lack of knacks isn't missed. They lose their value quickly as you level. Also, you get temp PP at the end of most combats. Refresh longer length buffs and heal with that.

I'm not sure if I agree. a lot of the knacks are really good across all levels of play. Empathy comes to mind ... no save no Sr knowing surface emotions of enemies can be invaluable for social encounters for example.

[deuxhero]

Yeah, Knacks aren't really combat stuff, they're for minor utility

Ectoplasmic Trinket alone can, just off the top of my head.
Duplicate keys
Temporarily replace a missing part of a mechanism (you can even dismiss it and make them fail on demand latter)
Describe anything as well as you remember it (Being able to make a small figure of a monster/bust of a mystery man you saw is better than any verbal description)
Create stuff to throw at possible illusions
Create focus components, including holy symbols (It only says you can't use it for material components)

Far Hand makes it so you don't have to touch stuff that has been who knows where and may be cursed.

[SVentura77]

They are definitely "E"vil, so healer is out, but I love the idea.

If the player chooses the vitalist then I would be backporting knacks as well. We'll have to see what he thinks. A lot of this game is going to be social encounters and world interaction, so the minor **** might come in handy more often than it regularly does.

I'll definitely pass along sadist, life-leech, and shadow sun ninja.

Thanks again for all the suggestions!

~S~

[Fouredged Sword]

Unfortunately, the Vitalist list of talents is kinda bland and is very small.

Dazzle - waste of an action
Detect Psionics - useful
Disruptive Touch -why use your action again, and being in melee as a healer?
Hinder -Really a wasted action
Induce Pain -1d3 damage ray, meh
Sense Poison -Useful
Sicken Body -Waste of an action
Vim -1 temp HP...

Detect poison and Detect Psionics are the only ones that really seem useful outside combat.

One thought, getting a bunch of knacks back is simply with a dip. A single level dip in Psion get you 3 from a much better list.

[Feint's End]

I advice heavily against the psion dip. Vitalists are extremely level dependant. If there is another caster in the group who can take care of detect magic then better drop knacks for sadist. Much better

[Fouredged Sword]

That is what I was saying. The knacks are basically just two decent detection spells and nothing else of major use. Someone else in the party will have detect magic, and detect poison rapidly becomes irrelevant as poisons lose their threat quickly.

[SVentura77]

I should probably note that this is an incredibly low-op game. I don't think they care about getting a perfect char, just one that fits their motif.

That being said, I've sent options his way and I think he's going an entirely different direction. I'm not going to argue; he's got to play what he wants to play. I think the vitalist/sadist/soul-thief options would be pretty cool, but looks like I'll have to wait for another game to see it in action. That, or throw some sadists into the enemy party. I've been meaning to do a more thorough read up on psionics anyway...

~S~

[nedz]

I should probably note that this is an incredibly low-op game. I don't think they care about getting a perfect char, just one that fits their motif.

That being said, I've sent options his way and I think he's going an entirely different direction. I'm not going to argue; he's got to play what he wants to play. I think the vitalist/sadist/soul-thief options would be pretty cool, but looks like I'll have to wait for another game to see it in action. That, or throw some sadists into the enemy party. I've been meaning to do a more thorough read up on psionics anyway...

~S~

Well, you have plenty of ideas for NPCs then :smallsmile:

[Feint's End]

I should probably note that this is an incredibly low-op game. I don't think they care about getting a perfect char, just one that fits their motif.

That being said, I've sent options his way and I think he's going an entirely different direction. I'm not going to argue; he's got to play what he wants to play. I think the vitalist/sadist/soul-thief options would be pretty cool, but looks like I'll have to wait for another game to see it in action. That, or throw some sadists into the enemy party. I've been meaning to do a more thorough read up on psionics anyway...

~S~

That's a shame really. Vitalists work perfectly in all levels of play (except maybe for really really high op) so it would be a nice choice but I can understand if your player wants to go another way.

Well if you need help again let us know.

[stack]

I believe there is a feat to get knacks, not that it matters for back porting to 3.5.

[Telonius]

One other option might be a Necrocarnate (from Magic of Incarnum) with Lifebond Vestments shaped.