What if per point of int bonus you gained a skill/tool/vehicle proficiency?

[claricorp]

Int seems like the easiest stat dump for the majority of characters, since it only gives bonuses to a broad range of less commonly used skills, and a fairly uncommon saving throw. It is also an important stat for only one class(wizard) and two sub classes(eldritch knight/arcane trickster).

Would having it give bonus skill proficiency for skills/tools/vehicles break a whole lot of things? I feel like it would make it a great alternative 12 stat compared to something like wisdom. Maybe in compensation you could take away one of the skill proficiencies from the wizard.

I thought it might make for a nifty houserule. What do you think?

[Giddonihah]

I am smarter than you! Thus I have learned the amazing skill of athletics and can ride horses!

Int to skills doesn't make much sense when most skills have nothing to do with Intelligence. Making the Wizard the skill monkey is poor design. Taking away 1 skill but giving them up to 4 more is still a sizable buff to the skills of a wizard. Most classes only get 4 proficiencies total (Up to maybe 6 with tools and racial) near doubling that significantly devalues skills. More languages with Int makes a bit more sense.

[rollingForInit]

Personally, I've been considering a system of specialisation. For every +1 on an ability score, you get to specialise in a skill related to that ability score. That is, a Wizard with 18 Int gets 4 specialisations in Intelligence-related skills. A specialisation would be a limited subset of the skill where you get an additional bonus (either double proficiency or advantage). For instance, if you play a Wizard who loves fire, you might take Arcana (fire magic) and get the bonus on any knowledge checks about magic that deals with fire. Likewise, a character with the Sailor background might use a +1 in Dexterity to take Acrobatics (slippery surfaces) to get advantage on any acrobatics checks related to moving across wet or slippery surfaces.

It'd be very DM-dependent, of course.

I do agree that Intelligence seems to be an awful ability score, purely from a mechanical perspective. Felt much better in the playtests where you got one language per Intelligence modifier. I don't think that Intelligence should be tied to skills in general as you suggest, but I always felt that Intelligence and language learning felt like a good match. If you have an easy time for rote learning and memorisation, you'd have a great advantage in learning languages. If I were a DM, I could easily consider bringing that back as a houserule.

[Galen]

* Wizards start with 1 skill instead of 2.
* If your Int is 12 or higher, learn an additional skill from your class' list.

There you go. Wizards are unaffected, and everyone else has some incentive not to dump Int.

[Shadow]

* Wizards start with 1 skill instead of 2.
* If your Int is 12 or higher, learn an additional skill from your class' list.

There you go. Wizards are unaffected penalized for no reason, and everyone else has some incentive not to dump Int.

fixed it for ya
Seriously, everyone *except* wizards can learn an extra skill if they toss a few points into Int?


Personally, I've been considering a system of specialisation. For every +1 on an ability score, you get to specialise in a skill related to that ability score. That is, a Wizard with 18 Int gets 4 specialisations in Intelligence-related skills. A specialisation would be a limited subset of the skill where you get an additional bonus (either double proficiency or advantage). For instance, if you play a Wizard who loves fire, you might take Arcana (fire magic) and get the bonus on any knowledge checks about magic that deals with fire. Likewise, a character with the Sailor background might use a +1 in Dexterity to take Acrobatics (slippery surfaces) to get advantage on any acrobatics checks related to moving across wet or slippery surfaces.

I kind of like this. But if I were to implement it, I'd say:
For every +1 on an ability score, you get to specialise in a skill related to that ability score, up to a mximum number of specialties equal to your Int bonus.
No Int bonus, no specialties.
+3 Int bonus, three specialties

[Demonic Spoon]

fixed it for ya
Seriously, everyone *except* wizards can learn an extra skill if they toss a few points into Int?


Wizards don't need to sacrifice anything by pumping int.


Anyway, I challenge the idea that the int-based skills are rarely used - knowledge skills, and investigation especially, could very well be critical in a lot of situations. That said, it would be nice if there were other reasons to take int. Then again, this also applies to WIS and CHA for classes that don't depend on their relevant skills.

Also, all illusions rely on int to disbelieve

Finally, it's worth noting that psionics will have int saves.

[Galen]

Finally, it's worth noting that psionics will have int saves.Oh god, I hope not. I had it enough with 3.5 Psionics being just-like-magic-but-better. I swear, if they give 5E psionics a save that most-monsters-have-as-their-worst, I'm banning psionics at my table.

[Person_Man]

In addition to bonus languages, maybe add in Traits? For every point Intelligence Bonus, choose any lore, hobby, tool, or specialization that does not have a direct connection to combat, monsters, survival, or dungeoneering. Examples: Chess, glassblower's tools, a musical instrument, wagon driving, art-history, etc. (But not thieves' tools, poisoner's kit, etc). You gain Proficiency on all checks related to it, or if you already have Proficiency from another source (History Skill, Proficiency from a class), you automatically pass all checks related to it.

Also, I would prefer that the six ability scores be a lot more balanced in general.


Str: Melee, Thrown, Athletics, maximum armor you can wear for non-dwarves (not just a movement penalty), Saves vs anything that paralyzes, holds, pushes, knocks Prone, or Stuns.
Dex: Finesse, Ranged, Acrobatics, Stealth, AC, Saves vs explosive/breath weapon area of effect stuff
Con: Hit Points, Concentration, Saves vs Poison/disease.
Int: Knowledge Skills, Traits, Saves vs anything that directly attacks the mind (replacing most Wis Saves).

Wis: Perception, Initiative (replacing Dex), Saves vs Illusions (or anything directly linked to awareness)
Cha: Social Skills, maximum Inspiration Points = Cha bonus +1, starting Inspiration Points which are refreshed for free whenever you gain a class level.

[Kyutaru]

Why not just give them the "Smart Ass" perk?

For every point of Intelligence modifier, the character has a use of the Smart Ass perk. Smart Asses are extremely meticulous, perceptive, and retentive, such that they can channel their inner nerd and "geek out" on a particularly difficult task. This grants them Advantage on any one skill check, cancelling out an instance of Disadvantage. If they already have Advantage, they may roll THREE dice and choose the highest.

Another usage of the Smart Ass perk can be that they may add their own proficiency bonus to another ally's check when using the Help action. Having a walking encyclopedia with you helps even if you have to quickly teach him how to pick a lock. This consumes one use of the Smart Ass perk.

Yet ANOTHER usage of the Smart Ass perk is that in the event the character does NOT have proficiency in a skill that he would like to make an attempt at, his keen intellect and understanding enable him to "figure it out" by making an educated pass at it. Perhaps he remembers some oddball miscellaneous fact he overheard that assists in the process, or just so happens to have knowledge of that one piece of lore. For the cost a use of the Smart Ass perk, the character may treat ANY one skill as a proficiency for a single skill check.

[BW022]

I don't see this as being logical or realistic. Your average carter, sailor, or Mongol horse warrior is not noted for high intelligence.

I also don't see the need to repeatedly worry about making all stats equally useful or trying to avoid dump stats. Folks only dumb certain stats if they think someone else in the party can make up the slack -- either through having a high stat, certain abilities, spells, etc. If you are a big barbarian, you likely are dumping wisdom and charisma as much as intelligence. And relying on a ranger or rogue to spot things, a bard or paladin to do the negotiations, or a wizard or bard to understand the secret language or identifying the demon as needing cold iron weapon to damage it.

Lots of classes likely don't wish to dump intelligence. Wizards, eldritch knights, and arcane tricksters obviously need it -- as you pointed out. However, knowledge clerics, bards with knowledge skills, rogues (or other trap finders with investigate) are likely fairly loathed to take an intelligence penalty. Wilderness types with nature likely don't want a penalty either. Any one wanting ritual casting needs a 13.

While it might appear less useful in combat, creature knowledge skills (arcane, religion, and nature) can be extremely powerful. Being able to know resistances, vulnerabilities, and other information in combat can save a lot of rounds of trial-and-error of half-damage or getting blasted.

Finally, I'll point out that you would get your intelligence bonus on tools and vehicle proficiencies in certain cases. For example, identifying a smith's mark, determining if a cart had be sabotaged, recognizing a boat, etc. would likely be intelligence (blacksmith), intelligence (cart), intelligence (boat), etc. Tools and vehicles do not have any specific attribute associated with them. Intelligence would apply to a lot of checks.

[Joe the Rat]

Back to the original concept:

Skills, no. Tool and language proficiencies, probably. You have nothing that anyone couldn't pick up with some downtime. Of course, this is on top of already knowing 5-25% more about topics *outside* your areas of expertise proficiency compared to the average. Intelligence is the stand-in for knowledge.

[MinaBee]

Back to the original concept:

Skills, no. Tool and language proficiencies, probably. You have nothing that anyone couldn't pick up with some downtime. Of course, this is on top of already knowing 5-25% more about topics *outside* your areas of expertise proficiency compared to the average. Intelligence is the stand-in for knowledge.

I would second that.

Skills would break something.

Tools and languages and vehicles would add flavor.

[Steel Mirror]

I like the idea of an extra tool/vehicle/language proficiency per Int bonus. Skills, as others have noted, might be a little strong; maybe you could trade in two of those other proficiencies for a skill proficiency?