Good PrCs for Pathfinder classes?

[Grim Reader]

Just general musings. A lot of the Pathfinder classes get class features that are not commonly advanced by Prestige Classes. The Inquisitors Judgements, Alchymists bombs etc. I'm kind of wondering which PrCs are still good, and possibly fluff-appropriate to the Pathfinder classes. Magus, Alchymist, Inquisitor, Witch etc.

For example, Divine Crusader on an Inquisitor still seems good. Less sure about Abjurant Champion on a Magus, you're giving up the arcana.

[Sayt]

Collegiate/Magambyaan Arcanist lets you cherry pick Druid spells and learn the Domain (Good) spell list.

Mammoth rider is good for animal companion classes.

Holy Vindicator can get some scary good AC with versatile channel and is good for battle clerics.

Hellknight is situationally good in campaigns, gets a free domain power and smite chaos.

Hellknight Armiger is fullcaster PRC for any given caster that advances fullcasting and gives class features.

[Abd al-Azrad]

The Winter Witch, while tricky to qualify for it, sacrifices very little of the Witch's ongoing class ability progressions (Hexes, Spells, etc) while still giving you some interesting options. I'm actually playing one, and while I wish I had a few more choices in my Hexes than the ones the PrC restricts me to use, I'm loving the ability to Hex targets within the effect of my own Sleet Storm spells.

[Grim Reader]

A Sand Shaper dip is good for any spont caser I suppose. Or anyone with a fixed list. Tricky to qualify for for the divine casters though. Can be very good fluff for a Witch. And an Inquisitor in the "dark secret" category.

[Psyren]

Wizards, even in PF, still get very little in the way of class features and so are prime targets for PrCing. Clerics give up relatively little as well.

Paizo's PrCs do get overlooked a lot, don't they? Might be good material for a handbook of some sort. *scribble scribble*

grarrg's Dipping Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?230500-Pathfinder-Dipping-for-Fun-and-Profit-(mostly-Profit)) is a great place to start with them.

[Person_Man]

It depends entirely on the ECL. Certain PrC might make sense at ECL 6-10ish. But in most cases, they almost always get outshined by strait class builds, because Pathfinder went out of its way to create interesting and useful mid-high level class options (a notable failure of 3.0/3.5). And at ECL 15-20, it almost never makes optimization sense to take any levels of any PrC.

[9mm]

Paizo's PrCs do get overlooked a lot, don't they? Might be good material for a handbook of some sort. *scribble scribble*


Mostly because of how few of them their actually are. As a whole the PF dev team decided archtypes > PrCs.

[Abd al-Azrad]

One of the biggest problems with a full investment in each and every PrC in Pathfinder is the opportunity cost of the Level 20 capstones and highest-level class abilities. Most games don't go that high, so you can kind of work around that in a standard game, but in terms of TO, every dip or PrC must be weighed against stuff like:

- 1/month Alchemist Stone
- Gate 3+Cha / day
- Final bloodline powers

I imagine, if one were to write a Guide to PrCs, it would be best viewed from the perspective of a game petering out after 15th level or so. Really, in PF you use archetypes in place of PrCs.

[Psyren]

Mostly because of how few of them their actually are. As a whole the PF dev team decided archtypes > PrCs.

I count over 50 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo) first-party not counting the CRB. 3.5 has way more but I still wouldn't call that few.

You're correct that they've prioritized archetypes though.



I imagine, if one were to write a Guide to PrCs, it would be best viewed from the perspective of a game petering out after 15th level or so. Really, in PF you use archetypes in place of PrCs.

Also true, though it's also worth noting that more games will stop around 15 than 20, so a PrC capstone is much more attainable than that of a base class. So even if the base class has a better capstone, it won't matter if you never reach it.

[LeonCross]

I thought Dragon Diciple was concidered a no brained for a dragon blood sorc?

[Abd al-Azrad]

...it's also worth noting that more games will stop around 15 than 20, so a PrC capstone is much more attainable than that of a base class. So even if the base class has a better capstone, it won't matter if you never reach it.

I agree. If someone was to write a PrC guide or series of guides, they would wisely be based on that key assumption.

"From a TO standpoint, your base class capstones are great. Let us work on the belief that you will never reach this level, so these options do not exist. What can you trade those nonexistent options for?"

[Extra Anchovies]

I thought Dragon Diciple was concidered a no brained for a dragon blood sorc?

No-brainer? You lose three levels of casting. For a sorcerer, that means giving up nines. It works for natural-weapon gishes, though.

[deuxhero]

Main use of prcs in PF is dual advancement (such as Eldritch Knight)

One additional weakness of PrCs in PF is that they lose favored class bonuses. Losing some extra HP/spells/whatever stings. It's not huge, but it's notable.

[Psyren]

Main use of prcs in PF is dual advancement (such as Eldritch Knight)

One additional weakness of PrCs in PF is that they lose favored class bonuses. Losing some extra HP/spells/whatever stings. It's not huge, but it's notable.

This is an excellent point - 14/15 spells known is a big deal for instance.

[deuxhero]

HP can be solved by Toughness, but the alternate ones can give you spells, huge power leads (Aasimar Bard and Oracle let you be levels ahead for performance/revelation power. Getting an Animal Companion at 1.5 your level is HUGE) feat like abilities (discoveries, arcana, ect) or even outright feats (human warpriest) and aren't easily replaced.

[Grim Reader]

Wizards, even in PF, still get very little in the way of class features and so are prime targets for PrCing. Clerics give up relatively little as well.

Paizo's PrCs do get overlooked a lot, don't they? Might be good material for a handbook of some sort. *scribble scribble*

grarrg's Dipping Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?230500-Pathfinder-Dipping-for-Fun-and-Profit-(mostly-Profit)) is a great place to start with them.

Its true, Clerics and Wizards still work much as before.


It depends entirely on the ECL. Certain PrC might make sense at ECL 6-10ish. But in most cases, they almost always get outshined by strait class builds, because Pathfinder went out of its way to create interesting and useful mid-high level class options (a notable failure of 3.0/3.5). And at ECL 15-20, it almost never makes optimization sense to take any levels of any PrC.

I am not sure that is the case. Often, yes, but any halfcaster would benefit from a PrC that can give him 9th level spells.

I was generally thinking of the Pathfinder only classes here. They give up more to PrC so when is it worth it?

Inquisitor with Divine Crusader. Can you go Skald or Bloodrager -> Sublime Chord? Or Slayer or Hunter w/Swift Hunter (You'd need DM approval, I think the feat specifically calls out Ranger) Arcanist + X -> Ultimate Magus, Shaman -> Knight of the Raven, Bloodrager -> Nar Demonbinder -> EK, or Which/Oracle/Sorcerer/Hunter/Inquisitor -> Sand Shaper dip. Whats still worth it?