Rules Question: Summoner - Pathfinder

[thematgreen]

I have considered running a Summoner for the first time and pretty much reversing the roles of the Summoner and Eidlon. RPwise the Eidlon was summoned by accident by a new Summoner and it broke the Summoners mind. He only lives to follow the Eidlon around, buffing it. The Eidlon, who will be built as human as possible and hidden under a cloak will be the actual character.

Is this allowed? How could I do it? I have no idea what to do with a summoner. Help me GitP, you're my only hope.

[Snowbluff]

The Eidolon can look like anything, so it works.

[Ssalarn]

He only lives to follow the Eidlon around, buffing it.

You've just described the default Summoner :P

It's the rare and inventive player who learns how to actually play his Summoner as the character instead of a walking battery for his eidolon.

[Snowbluff]

I do it. :smallsmile:

[Extra Anchovies]

You've just described the default Summoner :P

It's the rare and inventive player who learns how to actually play his Summoner as the character instead of a walking battery for his eidolon.

If I ever play a summoner, I'm fluffing it as a traveling knight (Eidolon) and his page/court scholar (Summoner).

[Spore]

Wrap your head around that. Just because the eidolon is an outsider doesn't mean it's an abhorrent alien thing. I like to imagine to have summoned a pretty major character from any movie or tv series being pulled to the summoner's home plane. Have the summoner be the guide and magical buffer in this world (what even is this magic you're talking about?) and have the eidolon just behave like a weirded out PC. You could go Spirit Summoner for that concept to not pull away from your "main character" by exchanging the summon monster SLA for some hexes.

I call this idea "the fanfic writer's wet dream."

[Psyren]

Not only is this doable, since the eidolon can have better skills you might actually have an easier time out of combat too.


The Eidolon can look like anything, so it works.

Well... it can look like anything, but it can't look like anything, if you catch my drift.

[SamsDisciple]

I am considering going major reversal of roles and doing a broodmaster where the eidolons buff the summoner through scrolls and wands and let the summoner unleash martial fury. Definitely not optimized but fun idea I think. As for the original post in one of the guides there is a stealth summoner idea that I think would work. In RP he follows along mutely, in combat he hides and buffs. Go with halfling, take a trait to make stealth a class skill, max stealth, never cast anything other than helping the eidolon. As for the eidolon there are some pretty good bruiser builds that focuses on martial weapons but I think this would be cool if his mind was broken because he summoned an aspect of Kali. Many arms, lots of weapons, much death.

[thematgreen]

Is it possible to have a bipedal form with a head and torso, but a ton of tentacles that can be hidden under it's cloak?

[Extra Anchovies]

Is it possible to have a bipedal form with a head and torso, but a ton of tentacles that can be hidden under it's cloak?

Biped base form, lots of the Tentacle evolution, and fluff the legs as especially large tentacles.

[grarrrg]

The Eidlon, who will be built as human as possible


The Eidolon can look like anything, so it works.

Kinda sort yes and no.
"The eidolon’s physical appearance is up to the summoner, but it always appears as some sort of fantastical creature. This control is not fine enough to make the eidolon appear like a specific creature."

A "human" probably doesn't qualify as a "fantastical creature".

Basically, it's an ask your DM kind of question, as "fantastical creature" is not a defined game term.
Is the setting RP heavy, and appearance would be important? Or is it combat heavy, and who really cares what it looks like?

[Snowbluff]

Wrong. HUmans can be wizards and that is a fact. :smalltongue:

More seriously though, Aasimar are fantasy critters and they look exactly like humans.

[Psyren]

I think you're conflating "fantastical creature" and "fantasy creature." The latter is just any creature in a fantasy setting, but the former would refer to something that defies classification.

[Snowbluff]

... That makes no sense in a game where the first thing we learn about every critter is their classification. Not to mention that the first option given to summoners is to arrange their eidolon into a group by its characteristics.

[Psyren]

The intent is for anyone looking at your eidolon to either say "that's an eidolon" or "what the hell is that thinng?" Not "that's a centaur" or "that's a human."

[Snowbluff]

Wait, we can't have centaurs? Because that's clearly a fantastical critter. :l

Another serious solution: The disguise skill.

[Psyren]

Wait, we can't have centaurs? Because that's clearly a fantastical critter. :l

No, it's a fantasy critter. In the context of a D&D setting, centaurs are pretty run-of-the-mill, all things considered.

It's like saying elves and gnomes are fantastical. By our world's standards, sure - but by theirs, not so much.

[Snowbluff]

They're imaginary. That's pretty much what the word means. They don't exist in real life, like elves and aasimar. If it was fantastical in universe, you would start to have a problem. "So my horse eidolon has six legs..." "Odin's horse, Sleipnir, is a thing in this universe." "DAMMIT!"

Another solution: It looks exactly like a human, but it has a squiggly spooch instead of kidneys.

[Extra Anchovies]

No, it's a fantasy critter. In the context of a D&D setting, centaurs are pretty run-of-the-mill, all things considered.

It's like saying elves and gnomes are fantastical. By our world's standards, sure - but by theirs, not so much.


The eidolon’s physical appearance is up to the summoner, but it always appears as some sort of fantastical creature. This control is not fine enough to make the eidolon appear like a specific creature. The eidolon also bears a glowing rune that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner’s forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned.

"Fantastical creature" has no RAW definition ∴ "fantastical creature" is not a hard limit. The only requirements regarding appearance are that it can't look like a specific creature and that it gets a glowing forehead rune (which I hadn't known before now; must've missed that on the first read-through).

[Snowbluff]

I propose airbending tattoos as the rune.

[Psyren]

Kidneys wouldn't affect appearance.

Rethinking it, a centaur might be possible. But not a human(oid) or animal; that's how I read that line.

[Snowbluff]

Having only 1 squiggly spooch instead of 2 kidneys would mean you have a skinnier waist. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

If you have a waist so skinny the only explanation is "missing organs," you probably look inhuman enough that Disguise checks are called for, which would fit the line. So I'd be okay with a squiggly spooch in that case.

[Snowbluff]

Yes! I will now proceed to never do this. Personally, I prefer my eight legged demon panthers. :smallsmile:

[grarrrg]

Annnnnd this is why I said it's an "ask your DM kind of question"....
It can definitely look humanoid, but anyone capable of making the proper skill check to identify a Human should be able to tell you that it is NOT a human.


Another solution: It looks exactly like a human, but it has a squiggly spooch instead of kidneys.

Kidneys wouldn't affect appearance.

Have you ever SEEN a squiggly spooch?
The answer is "no", because if you had seen a squiggly spooch you wouldn't be asking such questions. :smalltongue:

[Extra Anchovies]

Finally remembering what a squiggly-splooch is... Now I need to make a Dromite Summoner whose Eidolon is an manic, childish robot...

[grarrrg]

Finally remembering what a squiggly-splooch is... Now I need to make a Dromite Summoner whose Eidolon is an manic, childish robot...

Only if you sing the Doom Song first.

[Haruki-kun]

I suppose the DM would make a call on the situation, but IMO the only limitations for what a Eidolon can look like are the base form and the evolutions, really. The whole fantastic creature thing is just for fluff text.

[thematgreen]

Okay, I think I have what I want.

Humanoid legs, humanoid torso and head. All other evolutions into tentacles on the torso and face. All hidden under a large cloak. I'll pump disguise and bluff. The Summoner is going to be a gnome that rides in a backpack on it's back, wears a ring of sustanance and an amulet of adaptation and is catatonic except when the "thing" demands spells.