New character help

[Dayaz]

So I'm getting pulled into a new campaign that's based loosely off of Final Fantasy, and I need help. To be fair, I'm not sure what kind of character I want to be.

We currently have a Brawler, a Archery Ranger, and a spellcaster who is kind of buff centric if I remember right.

Since I haven't actually PLAYED a true game of dnd in quite a while, I'm rusty, and I've missed quite a few good releases.

Now, I had considered a TWF Mysterious Stranger/Alchemist build, but I have no idea how to buff it up other than making sure i had a wand to cast Reloading Hands (or whatever it's called). Or even just a base TWF Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger.

I had also considered a throwing weapon based Stalker, or a Warder to play a tank, but I've kind of stepped back from it. I'm not really worried about overshadowing anyone, since the ranger will be moving out of country in a few months, but I just don't have any real ideas. We could use something of a tank, healer, or skill monkey type.

Possible ideas:
TWF Gunslinger
Vitalist
Debuff/Control wizard
Some sort of tank-ish build

Also, the DM is letting us pull prestige classes/featsd/ect from 3.5 if we want to.

I've gotten an agreement from the DM that if I play a Enchanter/Illusionist, he'll refrain from dropping a ton of immune monsters in front of me.

That being said, how would you optimize a character that's main focus is in Enchantment, Illusion, and Divination spells?

[Manly Man]

So I'm getting pulled into a new campaign that's based loosely off of Final Fantasy, and I need help. To be fair, I'm not sure what kind of character I want to be.

We currently have a Brawler, a Archery Ranger, and a spellcaster who is kind of buff centric if I remember right.

Since I haven't actually PLAYED a true game of dnd in quite a while, I'm rusty, and I've missed quite a few good releases.

Now, I had considered a TWF Mysterious Stranger/Alchemist build, but I have no idea how to buff it up other than making sure i had a wand to cast Reloading Hands (or whatever it's called). Or even just a base TWF Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger.

I had also considered a throwing weapon based Stalker, or a Warder to play a tank, but I've kind of stepped back from it. I'm not really worried about overshadowing anyone, since the ranger will be moving out of country in a few months, but I just don't have any real ideas. We could use something of a tank, healer, or skill monkey type.

Possible ideas:
TWF Gunslinger
Vitalist
Debuff/Control wizard
Some sort of tank-ish build

Also, the DM is letting us pull prestige classes/featsd/ect from 3.5 if we want to.

If he'll allow 3.5 content on the whole, not just prestige classes, make a Ruby Knight Vindicator, probably Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/Cleric 5 if you wanna still have 9th-level spells by the time you reach level 20. If you'd rather do maneuvers, then go for it something like Crusader 4/Cleric 2/RKV 10/Crusader 4. Either way, you end up incredibly tough and tanky, can heal efficiently (especially with maneuvers), and for the most part, being a skill monkey isn't entirely necessary when you can just smash all the doors and traps into oblivion with Mountain Hammer. Another option may be to replace two Crusader levels, or maybe four, with Swordsage for extra skills and a giant dollop of all kinds of maneuvers you might have been missing out on.

[grarrrg]

Now, I had considered a TWF Mysterious Stranger/Alchemist build, but I have no idea how to buff it up other than making sure i had a wand to cast Reloading Hands (or whatever it's called).

You don't need Reloading Hands for this.
Alchemists can grow an extra arm/hand with a Discovery. While this extra hand does NOT give you extra attacks, there is nothing preventing you from using it to reload your weapons.

Seriously. Alchemist 2/Gunslinger X is one of the _two_ fool-proof methods for TWF with Pistols (the other involves a feat chain).

[Abd al-Azrad]

We could use something of a tank, healer, or skill monkey type.

That covers probably 60% of all possible options, which isn't really all that helpful for the purposes of specific build advice. I guess you could go Human Paladin with a decent Int score, and a Trait or two adding specific skills to your Class Skills list.


Now, I had considered a TWF Mysterious Stranger/Alchemist build, but I have no idea how to buff it up other than making sure i had a wand to cast Reloading Hands (or whatever it's called). Or even just a base TWF Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger.

In general, dipping, cross-classing and even prestige classing in Pathfinder is considered suboptimal. The vast majority of class features scale with level, a significant number of core and base classes are rear-loaded with powerful options, and PrCs rarely do much to advance towards these benefits.

However, an Alchemist dip is one of those rare exceptions that can give you more than you lose. With two levels in Alchemist, you can pick up a Mutagen that boosts your Dex (adding to your attack rolls) and the Extra Arm discovery to give you a free, permanent way to reload your pistols while TWFing.

Mysterious Stranger may end up costing you more than you gain, however. Note that it gives up Gun Training 1, a.k.a. the point where you are adding Dex to damage rolls. It does give you a Deed to spend grit to add Cha to damage rolls, but you need your grit for other things and the permanent bonus from Gun Training is extremely powerful. If you want to dual-wield pistols, I'd more recommend Pistolero.

EDIT: GRRAAAAARG NINJA'D

[Unbalanced]

I don't know the mechanics on it or whether its possible, but an idea I like the sound of is a literal tank.
Gunslinger in the heaviest armour there is with the biggest most explosive gun there is!

[grarrrg]

GRRAAAAARG

Who? (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RunningGag) :smallconfused:


However, an Alchemist dip is one of those rare exceptions that can give you more than you lose. With two levels in Alchemist, you can pick up a Mutagen that boosts your Dex (adding to your attack rolls) and the Extra Arm discovery to give you a free, permanent way to reload your pistols while TWFing.

Well, is the long term plan going to involve more Alchemist? Or more Gunslinger?

If it's going to be Alchemist with a Gunslinger dip, then I recommend Mysterious Stranger 1, Siege Gunner (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/siege-gunner-gunslinger-archetype) 1, or Siege Gunner 5.
Mysterious Stranger is THE most front-loaded of all, giving you your Stat-to-Damage right away at level 1.
But most of you are going "Siege Gunner?" right about now. Siege Gunner lets you use INT instead of WIS for Grit pool. This combos nicely with Alchemist for a variety of reasons, the big 2 are: Reduces MAD, and +DEX Mutagen reduces WIS (which may cause your Grit pool to be a bit wonky at times).

If going more Gunslinger, then Pistolero (www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/pistolero) is the winner, as once you hit Gunslinger 11 you can add your Up Close and Deadly damage to every shot ever!


For the Alchemist side of things:
Alchemist dip: All you care about is 2 levels > Vestigial Arm > done. There aren't all that many Alchemist options that really help with only 2 levels, so I'm defaulting to good old Vivisectionist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/vivisectionist). You'll trade away your worthless "1d6" Bombs, in exchange for an occasional +1d6 Sneak Attack.

For Alchemist heavy, I'm leaning towards Grenadier (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/grenadier-alchemist-archetype), mainly for the potential shenanigans with Alchemical Weapon (and having Bomb-options is always nice for crowd control).


I don't know the mechanics on it or whether its possible, but an idea I like the sound of is a literal tank.
Gunslinger in the heaviest armour there is with the biggest most explosive gun there is!

Well, Gun TANK (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/gun-tank) would be the place to start of course.
The most important thing is the Armor Training, to improve ANY armor's Max DEX.
After 5-to-8 levels of Gun Tank, I'm thinking jumping ship to Fighter might be a good idea. Fighter will be _no_ archetype, as we want to keep both Weapon and Armor Training (stacks with Gun Tank ability).

As for using big guns...that isn't as easy, as the standard "big weapon go-to" of Enlarge Person doesn't really work.
Maybe someone else can help here.

EDIT:
I've done some thinking (hence the "EDIT:")...
Gun Tank 5+/Alchemist 2(4?)/Tower Shield Specialist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/tower-shield-specialist) Fighter 9+
Alchemist is for growing TWO Vestigial Arms. One will hold the Shield, the other will Reload (can either take Extra Discovery feat, or 4 levels of Alchemist).
Gun Tank is for standard Gunslinger stuff.
Tower Shield Specialist...yup. One problem with Gun Tanks is that they gain _ALL_ shield proficiencies, but can only ever really use a Buckler, as the others interfere with Reloading. The Alchemist bypasses this, and as long as were going to use a shield we may as well go for the big one.
Tower Shield Fighter slowly negates most of the extra penalties that come with a Tower Shield, 3rd reduces some of the ACP and boosts the Max DEX. 5th removes the Attack roll penalty. 9th is pretty sweet, as it lets us count Shield AC towards Touch-AC!

So 15 total levels of Fighter/Gunslinger will get us the maximum Armor Training bonuses> +4 Max DEX (+6 with Tower), 4 (7 for Tower) ACP reduction, and can move at normal speed.
Were pretty much going to have to make the sucker out of Mithral (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/special-materials#TOC-Mithral), for another +2 Max DEX and 3 reduced ACP.
Final Tower stats: +10 Max DEX, 0 ACP
AND we can still TWF with guns!

*Fun Fact: If you search d20pfsrd for "mithral" it will say "did you mean: mithril?", even through mithrAl is the correct spelling...

[Dayaz]

I've gotten an agreement from the DM that if I play a Enchanter/Illusionist, he'll refrain from dropping a ton of immune monsters in front of me.

That being said, how would you optimize a character that's main focus is in Enchantment, Illusion, and Divination spells? With a potential for maybe going into the Unseen Seer prestige class (I'm not sure about that, I just remember wanting to play one in the past)

[Dayaz]

bump? Anyone have any ideas?

[KingSmitty]

Shadowcraft mage? Make your illusions so believable they kill people.

Otherwise i must say Whisper Gnome is the way to go and take the Gnome Illusionist racial substitution levels if you're taking illusionist levels that is.

[Abd al-Azrad]

Spell Perfection in one of the Shadow Conjuration or Shadow Evocation spells (your pick). Arcane bloodline sorcerer. Persistent Spell for free.