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Dragor
2007-03-20, 12:02 PM
I made a Barbarian evil character, for the first time. Now, how I envisaged him was as a hulking brute, preferring to bite, tear and rip his enemies rather than hit them with a big club. We started at Level 2 as we were doing a 'parallel adventure' sort of thing- Good party trying to collect evil artifacts to save the kingdom, and the Evil party doing things for their own gain by trying to get the artifacts for themselves.
I discovered, however, that the rules weren't exactly in his favour for this sort of thing- and being a Monk, as I told my friend, was out of the question. He didn't have finesse or style; all he uses is his strength and his weight.
Now, is this just me? I'm no good at homebrew ideas; maybe someone could jump on this if they so wished. (If this needs to be reposted into Homebrew, so be it).

Thanks,

Your Local Complainer, Dragor

The Great Skenardo
2007-03-20, 12:07 PM
Seems like you could together a variant barbarian that gains the unarmed damage progression for a Monk of appropriate level during a rage in exchange for reduced stat bonuses.

example:
Mug Grok, the 5th-level Barbarian (Spitting Mad Brawler variant) enters a rage. He is immediately counted as having the Improved Unarmed Strike damage feat for the duration of the rage, and his natural attacks now do 1d10 damage, with your choice of piercing, slashing or bludgeoning with each strike.

Telonius
2007-03-20, 12:10 PM
There's a PrC in Complete Warrior called "Reaping Mauler" that you might want to look into. Haven't ever seen one played, so I'm not sure how good it is. Also, remember that you are able to use Power Attack on unarmed strikes and natural attacks (unlike all other light weapons).

EDIT: A Monk's Belt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltMonks) could help you, too.

Krellen
2007-03-20, 12:10 PM
If you have access to some 3.0 material, you might look into the 'Feral' template - from Savage Species, I think it was? I believe it's a +1 LA, and would give you natural attacks to use, which is really what you need. Any other monster race with natural attacks will do too.

Alternatively, you can just take the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. Though you won't be doing the big dice of damage the Monk does, you can still do lethal damage with your fists, and since you want to be all strength you're already counting on most of your damage being bonus, rather than dice. Power Attack works with unarmed strikes, too.

The Gilded Duke
2007-03-20, 12:17 PM
Pick up Improved Unarmed Strike if you haven't already. In Frostburn their is an unarmed combat rager prestige class that does bonus cold damage that is actually alot of fun. There is also Superior Unarmed Strike in Tome of Battle that sets your unarmed strike damage based on your ECL, You won't get as good as a monk of the same level, but you will be close. Also I beleive their is a magic item that lets you give weapon enchantments to natural and unarmed attacks. Also a feat that increases the dice size you roll by one. Is there anyway you can have a large or huge character... you get so many more options then.

Person_Man
2007-03-20, 12:38 PM
Well, here's a list of things that Rage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36238&highlight=rage). Look it over and see if anything catches your eye.

I suggest Darfellan (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050805a&page=2) or Warforged Barbarian 4/Fighter 2/Frostrager 5 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040911a&page=3)

Feats: Frozen Berserker, Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Extra Rage, Leap Attack, Snap Kick.

The build is very strait forward. You get a bunch of melee attacks, and beat the crud out of stuff. Not the best tank in the world, but still fun.

Power Attack/Leap Attack applies to all natural attacks, including your bite or slam attack and your Rend attack. And using Snap Kick, you can charge, make a Leap Attack, make 2 unarmed strikes, and if they both hit, get a free Rend, applying the Leap attack damage bonus to all attacks.

Also note that you can buy magical gauntlets and have their properties apply to your unarmed attacks.

But most importantly, Cold damage heals you. So have the party Wizard cast Ice Storm and Freezing Sphere and whatnot on top of you while you're engaging the enemy. If at all possible, you should have someone cast Enlarge Person on you before each combat. This will increase your base damage on all your attacks, but more importantly it gives you reach, which makes it more likely you'll be able to make a full attack each round.

storybookknight
2007-03-20, 12:51 PM
Do you have access to the Eberron Campaign Setting? If so, you could try playing a Shifter.

Otherwise, ask your DM for some special equipment - Two weapon fighting and hand claws could work, for example.

AtomicKitKat
2007-03-20, 12:59 PM
Black Blood Cultist in Champions of Ruin gets bite/claw/claw/rend in Rage, and eventually gets to do them even out of it.

Willing Deformity+Deformity:Claw(Book of Vile Darkness)+Deformity:Teeth(Heroes of Horror) will net you similar. It is unclear if you use both hands for the Claw damage, or whether they mean that each hand becomes a claw doing the appropriate damage.

Elven Wildrunner(Races of the Wild) gives you a kind of Frenzy that is sort of like Rage, but gives Str/Dex instead of Str/Con, along with some interesting powers(frighten your foes when you rage, sort of like Intimidating Rage; pounce in the same round that you start raging;etc.) and Fast Movement.

Just some ideas.

Dragor
2007-03-20, 02:30 PM
Thanks guys, all good ideas.

Maybe we should invent some feats or make a twist on the Barbarian class. A toned down Raging Mauler (so it's not prestige) would fit the bill nicely. I'm limited to a few books (I have PH, DM's guide, Fiend Folio, Complete Warrior, Arms and Equipment guide and Races of Faerun.) Best get our thinking caps on, eh?

Give me a PM if you want to get 'brewin.

Ashlan
2007-03-20, 03:15 PM
Dragon Mag 349 (Nov 2006) has a Barbarian substitution called City Brawler which allows you to drop martial weapon, medium armor and shield proficiencies for, Improved Unarmed Strike and 2 Weapon Fighting at 1st, Improved 2 Weapon Fighting at 6th and Greater 2 Weapon Fighting at 11th (only when unarmed).

Tome of Battle has the feat Superior Unarmed Strike (which you would qualify for by 3rd level with the above class change) that will give you up to 2d6 dmg for your unarmed strike by level 16.


Ash

Closet_Skeleton
2007-03-20, 03:22 PM
Bear Warrior is a great Prc for people who are prepared to spend their down time picking bits of orc out of their teeth. Alternatively you could just use Punching Daggers, Gauntlets or one of the numerous attempts to make a wearable bladed claw weapon. Feral would also work and oddly you actually have an RP excuse to use it.

Lemur
2007-03-20, 04:03 PM
There's a prestige class from Unapproachable East (a FR splatbook) called the Shou Disciple, which basically gives you some bonus unarmed damage and flurry, without any alignment restrictions.

Person_Man
2007-03-21, 03:27 PM
I though about this some more, and I think the optimal build would be:

Human Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#totem-barbarian) 4/Fighter 2/Frostrager 5

Feats: Improved Trip, Frozen Berserker, Extra Rage, Knock-Down, Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Leap Attack, Snap Kick.

I think the bonus feat (which you spend on Knock-Down, thus giving you a high probability of an extra attack each round) is more valuable then the extra natural attack.

At higher levels, definitely pick up Shock Trooper and Cleave. You should easily be able to Leap Attack for +20ish damage on each attack, and get 5-ish attacks on a charge or AoO using One-two Punch, Snap Kick, Rend, and Knock Down. On a full attack, you should get at least 7 attacks.

Dragor
2007-03-21, 03:38 PM
I though about this some more, and I think the optimal build would be:

Human Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#totem-barbarian) 4/Fighter 2/Frostrager 5

Feats: Improved Trip, Frozen Berserker, Extra Rage, Knock-Down, Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Leap Attack, Snap Kick.

I think the bonus feat (which you spend on Knock-Down, thus giving you a high probability of an extra attack each round) is more valuable then the extra natural attack.

At higher levels, definitely pick up Shock Trooper and Cleave. You should easily be able to Leap Attack for +20ish damage on each attack, and get 5-ish attacks on a charge or AoO using One-two Punch, Snap Kick, Rend, and Knock Down. On a full attack, you should get at least 7 attacks.

Thanks for the build, Person_Man... nice of you to take the time :smallsmile:
Despite having lost my character sheet, I remember most details:

Gerten Wulfskinn, Level 2 Barbarian, Human

STR- 16
DEX- 13
CON- 16
WIS- 9
INT- 11
CHA- 9

Feats: Power Attack and Improved Unarmed Strike
Money: 1400 gold-ish.

Not the best in the pack, but only Level 2 so far. Extra Rage is a must; I've looked through Complete Warrior and like the sound of Destructive Rage (my DM likes doors. Locked ones. This solves that problem.)

Which books contained all those feats, Person? I'll try and get 'em when I next get my pocket money (yes, I'm still a little whippersnapper with no job to his name :smalltongue: )

The rest of the party contains a Psion, a Fighter and a custom-made class NPC (to sum it up, it's sort of an illusionist/bard class- he can entrance people to doing weird things, but takes damage as a result).

Dragor
2007-03-21, 03:39 PM
I though about this some more, and I think the optimal build would be:

Human Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#totem-barbarian) 4/Fighter 2/Frostrager 5

Feats: Improved Trip, Frozen Berserker, Extra Rage, Knock-Down, Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Leap Attack, Snap Kick.

I think the bonus feat (which you spend on Knock-Down, thus giving you a high probability of an extra attack each round) is more valuable then the extra natural attack.

At higher levels, definitely pick up Shock Trooper and Cleave. You should easily be able to Leap Attack for +20ish damage on each attack, and get 5-ish attacks on a charge or AoO using One-two Punch, Snap Kick, Rend, and Knock Down. On a full attack, you should get at least 7 attacks.

Thanks for the build, Person_Man... nice of you to take the time :smallsmile:
Despite having lost my character sheet, I remember most details:

Gerten Wulfskinn, Level 2 Barbarian, Human

STR- 16
DEX- 13
CON- 16
WIS- 9
INT- 11
CHA- 9

Feats: Power Attack and Improved Unarmed Strike
Money: 1400 gold-ish.

Not the best in the pack, but only Level 2 so far. Extra Rage is a must; I've looked through Complete Warrior and like the sound of Destructive Rage (my DM likes doors. Locked ones. This solves that problem.)

Which books contained all those feats, Person? I'll try and get 'em when I next get my pocket money (yes, I'm still a little whippersnapper with no job to his name :smalltongue: )

The rest of the party contains a Psion, a Fighter and a custom-made class NPC (to sum it up, it's sort of an illusionist/bard class- he can entrance people to doing weird things, but takes damage as a result).

--EDIT--

Sorry for the double post- my net is all over the place at the moment.

Person_Man
2007-03-22, 08:22 AM
Which books contained all those feats, Person? I'll try and get 'em when I next get my pocket money (yes, I'm still a little whippersnapper with no job to his name :smalltongue: )

Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Improved Trip are all PHB. Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#totem-barbarian) (which grants Improved Trip without having to take Combat Expertise) is UA.

Frozen Berserker grants you the cold subtype (immunity to cold, 50% more damage from fire) whenever you rage, and is from Frostburn, and is a pre-req for the Frostrager (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040911a&page=3) PrC.

Extra Rage is in the Complete Warrior.

Leap Attack is in the Complete Adventurer.

Knock-Down is in the SRD, under the Divine section (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divineFeats.html).

Snap Kick is in the Tome of Battle. It has the same description as the Frostrager's One-two Punch (Ex) ability. The abilities (and penalties) stack. This means that on any Charge, Attack of Opportunity, Standard Attack, Full Attack, or any other melee attack, you can take one or two additional attacks, though you only gain one additional attack per ability per round, and each will give a cumulative -2 to hit on all attacks that round. But note that niether is an off hand attack, so you always apply your full Str bonus. It's like TWF, but much better.

Destructive Rage is a huge waste of a feat. Just buy an adamantine weapon, they ignore hardness less than 20. If the door has a hardness 20 or more, destroy the wall next to the door, which will probably have a hardness below 20 (unless someone has the money to build their entire dungeon out of adamantine).

You need not buy the books. Just Google the names of the feats. If you need to buy them for some reason, you can get them used online for quite cheap.


The rest of the party contains a Psion, a Fighter and a custom-made class NPC (to sum it up, it's sort of an illusionist/bard class- he can entrance people to doing weird things, but takes damage as a result).

It looks like your party needs a Cleric, not a Barbarian.

Piccamo
2007-03-22, 08:30 AM
If you can squeeze it in there Blazing Berserker from Sandstorm could be fun as it gives you immunity to fire whenever you rage. It wouldn't really add anything to the build, it would just be funny to gain both cold and fire subtypes when raging.

Dragor
2007-03-22, 10:38 AM
Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Improved Trip are all PHB. Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#totem-barbarian) (which grants Improved Trip without having to take Combat Expertise) is UA.

Frozen Berserker grants you the cold subtype (immunity to cold, 50% more damage from fire) whenever you rage, and is from Frostburn, and is a pre-req for the Frostrager (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040911a&page=3) PrC.

Extra Rage is in the Complete Warrior.

Leap Attack is in the Complete Adventurer.

Knock-Down is in the SRD, under the Divine section (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divineFeats.html).

Snap Kick is in the Tome of Battle. It has the same description as the Frostrager's One-two Punch (Ex) ability. The abilities (and penalties) stack. This means that on any Charge, Attack of Opportunity, Standard Attack, Full Attack, or any other melee attack, you can take one or two additional attacks, though you only gain one additional attack per ability per round, and each will give a cumulative -2 to hit on all attacks that round. But note that niether is an off hand attack, so you always apply your full Str bonus. It's like TWF, but much better.

Destructive Rage is a huge waste of a feat. Just buy an adamantine weapon, they ignore hardness less than 20. If the door has a hardness 20 or more, destroy the wall next to the door, which will probably have a hardness below 20 (unless someone has the money to build their entire dungeon out of adamantine).

You need not buy the books. Just Google the names of the feats. If you need to buy them for some reason, you can get them used online for quite cheap.

Thanks.


It looks like your party needs a Cleric, not a Barbarian.

True. But then again, we'll make the Psion carry all the potions. And I always play the combat character.

TheThan
2007-03-22, 11:10 AM
I'm not sure if this fits the bill for what your looking for, but i'll post it anyway since i never pass up a chance to promote my own work:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32000


I made it because I got tired of monks dominating the unarmed (kung fu) scene. So i dreamed this up.

Dragor
2007-03-22, 03:16 PM
I'm not sure if this fits the bill for what your looking for, but i'll post it anyway since i never pass up a chance to promote my own work:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32000


I made it because I got tired of monks dominating the unarmed (kung fu) scene. So i dreamed this up.

It's not what I was looking for exactly, but I still like it- well done old chap.