What side to pick in a multi-planar war?

[Deicidal1]

So, my DM just dropped a bomb on my party at the end of tonight's session. Apparently we're going to play a pivotal role in a war between five factions. We can choose between joining Asmodeus and the armies of Hell, Lucifer and whatever forces he has (he's kind of a mystery right now to us), the Queen of Chaos who leads the demonic hordes (or at least the ones who can stop slaughtering each other), the Angelic army, and the Material Plane.

My character is lawful neutral, sworn to a code of vengeance (eye for an eye in the most literal fashion) and he hates both demons and finds most devils disgusting, though he is willing to work with them as long as it helps him and respects the ones in power. We came into this campaign knowing that it would be based mainly in Hell, right now we're in Dis, just about to have a conversation with Dispater, and before we learned about this whole multi-planar war the end goal for my character was to kill Bel and become the ruler of Avernus, where I could kill demons and send devils to die to my hearts desire. Now I'm torn between siding with Asmodeus to accomplish that goal, or joining up with the angels, but neither path is an obvious choice simply because right now I'm sitting right in the middle of those two alignments.

My question to the playground is this? Who do you think would win given these armies really went to war? My opinion is that Asmodeus would probably end up as the victor, but I'm admittedly biased as I'm a huge fan of his character. I'm pretty sure the Material Plane is screwed and my character has no real attachments it, but I do think the demons and angels have a fighting chance. I have no idea what Lucifer would do but I'm curious to see what you guys think.

[Eldan]

Whose angels are they? Depending on which god they serve, that could change a lot. Angels of a lawful good god would probably work pretty well with you, especially if it was a god of justice. A chaotic good god of freedom and debauchery? Not so much.

Also, who is Lucifer in your world? As far as I know, he's not in canon at all.

[Brookshw]

Also, who is Lucifer in your world? As far as I know, he's not in canon at all. Arguably in 1e but a great question.

Back to the OP, I'd say Asmodeus. Angel's don't really go into the whole retribution justice sort of thing generally but A finds it just ducky. Plus you'd get to terrorize any low ranking devils and gain respect for it. As to taking over Avernus if you wanted to keep at that, definitely more likely if you're on the devils side.

Of course from the RP perspective it could be fun to start on the Angel's side and switch to Asmodeus' later in a "fallen" sort of way if the Angel's aren't delivery the "correct" form of justice/vengence.

[ThisIsZen]

I'd pick Asmodeus, but then I'd pick Asmodeus pretty much at any time and for any reason. The Lord of Hell is just that damn cool. He's also, if'n you ask me, the most likely to come out on top, just 'cause losing is not something big A does.

Retributive LN would also find more in common with the Hellish hierarchy than with the Angels as well, at least as I see it. Vengeance is very much not in the Celestial wheelhouse, at least ideally - justice certainly is, but justice is not the same as taking an eye for an eye. It's the difference between righting wrongs and getting satisfaction - the motivation behind one is to make the world better and correct mistakes, while the other is about getting even. If you need to cast the world into hell (or blind everyone), then so be it.

Unless that's not your schtick. If you find that setting the world right is more important to your character than squaring some perceived debt owed, then maybe the Angels would be more to your liking.

[Deicidal1]

Whose angels are they? Depending on which god they serve, that could change a lot. Angels of a lawful good god would probably work pretty well with you, especially if it was a god of justice. A chaotic good god of freedom and debauchery? Not so much.

Also, who is Lucifer in your world? As far as I know, he's not in canon at all.

Our DM was pretty vague about whose angels they are, I'm expecting to learn more next session, but I'm thinking if its a war of this scale most of the gods are going to be sending their troops into combat.

Lucifer is stated out on the pathfinder SRD as a CR 39 creature and our DM is following the lore on his page, so he was the original lord of Hell and Asmodeus overthrew him, tossing him out and forcing him to make his own plane called Infernus, where he waits patiently for a time to take back his rightful throne.

Link to Lucifer for convenience: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/devil/devils-unique/devil-lucifer-prince-of-darkness-tohc

[137beth]

Arguably in 1e but a great question.

And, it looks like the version they are using is from Tome of Horror Complete, which was based on the 3.0 monster book Tome of Horror, which contained Necromancer Games' conversions of 1e monsters into 3e.

[Eldan]

O

Link to Lucifer for convenience: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/devil/devils-unique/devil-lucifer-prince-of-darkness-tohc

Hmm. Third party product for Pathfinder. So, I have no idea who he is or what he wants. Is this a pathfinder game, then? I Think they changed the cosmology quite a bit, so I can't say much.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

The inclusion of a 'prime devil' such as Lucifer is interesting, given that Asmodeus and his brother were supposed to be the first two beings in creation in PF cosmology. Anyway, if the Abyssal hordes are uniting, they will win. The only reason they haven't destroyed all of creation is because they spend more time fighting each other than they do the rest of the multiverse.

[atemu1234]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/devil/devils-unique/devil-lucifer-prince-of-darkness-tohc

Am I the only one who read his Descent into evil ability and immediately thought that he must be doing a sexy gaze at you or something? Seduction of evil, indeed, with that charisma score.

[Todd Stewart]

Hmm. Third party product for Pathfinder. So, I have no idea who he is or what he wants. Is this a pathfinder game, then? I Think they changed the cosmology quite a bit, so I can't say much.

More similarities than not I would think between the Great Wheel and PF's Great Beyond.

And yeah, lots of 3rd Party material in the OP's game - there's no Queen of Chaos or Lucifer in Pathfinder's cosmology.

If you have to pick a side in a planar conflict, whether they're an advertised side or not, I'd pick proteans myself. Because rock-candy pumpkin stygian blue rocket socks.

[Red Fel]

I'd say Asmodeus. Traditionally, the only real reason that Evil hasn't defeated Good is that CE and LE can't get their crap together; the combined forces of CG, NG and LG are just enough to defeat those Evil Outsiders not involved in the back-and-forth between CE and LE. The war against Evil is one of attrition, and it's a losing battle - people are too easy to tempt, corrupt, and damn. Good gets souls by the dozens, Evil by the thousands.

If LE crushes CE? It's basically game over for the cosmos. Good of any stripe doesn't stand a chance.

So Good is out. Similarly, don't side with Lucifer. He lost once, that's not a track record of which one should be proud. And you're obviously not siding with Demons. And the Prime Material? Pfft, where are its champions? This isn't Shin Megami Tensei, choosing Humanity doesn't get you the Best Ending. Side with Asmodeus, and let perfect strength and order sweep the planes.

[Alberic Strein]

LN all about vengeance? Worried about which side to join? Wait, don't I have the perfect quote for that...? Oh wait, I do:

"Fiat justitia ruat caelum"
"Let Justice be done though the heavens fall"

Basically, the heavens are not big on the whole 'an eye for an eye' shtick. Which, arguably, is more LE than LN, but hey, alignment is wacky.

Anyway I could see you going more with Big A, but if your DM introduces LN forces, like the Furies, you might go to them instead. Also, joinging Big A is always dangerous, of course he doesn't really lose, but that doesn't mean you won't be sacrificed or a non-ally before the dust settles.