How do we make the world a better place.

[Findpathfencer]

Something i learned studying history is that the past sucks, a lot, like if a old guy said's that the past was better then he doesn't know what he is talking about and probably thinks that way because of the news.
But most of us knows that the past sucks.
But what does this mean? It means that the would is getting better then what in The past and is now in a era of advancement and change of what it was in the past.

But there's still troubles with this world and our culture.
How do we fix it? How do we make the world a better place?
What do we need to do to improve our society?

[Solse]

Well, for starters, we need to make sure that everybody has all of the essentials. Food, water, shelter, clothing, etc. Then, we should find a way to spread the Internet to developing countries and give these people access to low-cost computers. We should stop fighting wars, find a greener yet efficient energy source, and end crime.

The real question is how to go about doing this.

[Grinner]

Extinction.

[SiuiS]

Extinction.

A surprisingly valid point, all told. In fact, this works even if the question is "how do we make the world a better place for humans", because the world will recover pretty quickly on a natural scale.


The truth is, there is no one single answer. You need to acknowledge both that every individual section or district has it's own problems that need to be given local priority, and that everyone needs to be able to work together for the good of other sections of the world and network.

[Dienekes]

My answer, in how to do it. Pick something. Pick something you're passionate about, be it the energy crisis, getting fresh water to a specific developing areas, education. Whatever that something is, pick it. Study it. And find out for that thing what is necessary to improve the world and work toward it.

Otherwise you get bogged down in these grand thoughts of ending all wars, or stopping all crime, or getting food to every child that needs it, that are all well and fine goals but do not actually have practical answers, which can lead to nothing getting down. It's better for everyone to just try and patch up their specific problem, and show steady possible growth than to philosophize about fixing everything with nothing getting done.

[Taet]

Extinction.
Yes! We are very close to killing off the Guinea worm.
In Guinea and other countries

Oh dear. :smallsigh:

[Haruki-kun]

I believe in little things, and in always doing my part. If I'm walking through a park and finish the soda I was drinking, I wait to find a trash can to throw the can into. I don't care if I see a lot of other people don't bother and just throw their empty food wrappers everywhere. I'll do my part, even if no one else does.

[Tengu_temp]

Truth is, a single ordinary person has very limited ability to make the world better. But that's okay, because small acts of goodness are important too. Be kind and helpful towards strangers, and don't do unto others as you wouldn't like them to do unto you. If you see someone who needs help, then help them. Sign petitions you agree with - some might not amount to anything, but some might still make a difference, thanks to your help. If you can spare some free money, donate to a charity. Do some research into which corporations have done some despicable deeds in the recent past, and don't buy their products - also it's better to do your shopping at small, local shops than at large malls, because this encourages the local economy to prosper.


Extinction.

Actually, considering that human average living conditions, education, IQ and open-mindedness have always been increasing over time, and have shown an especially sharp increase over the last 50-100 years, I'd say your cynicism is unwarranted. The world is getting better.

[Grinner]

Actually, considering that human average living conditions, education, IQ and open-mindedness have always been increasing over time, and have shown an especially sharp increase over the last 50-100 years...

As have cancer, heart disease, air pollution, and suicide rates.

[Crow]

Well to start, when it comes to things that don't affect anybody else; Mind your own business, and don't bother other people about theirs.

[TheThan]

That’s another loaded question.

A lot of different people think that a lot of different things will make the world a better place. That’s the problem; everyone is on a different page. Everyone thinks that by spreading their personal opinion or belief across the world will make the world a better place, look at the three fictional characters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?380347-If-you-could-be-any-three-fictional-characters) thread and see how many people want the power to do just that.

Now who said that what you think and want is the same thing I think and want? Who are you to dictate to me what is right and good and just in this world? Who are you to decide what is right for me to think, and feel and believe in? See the problem? Everyone wants to force their beliefs onto others, and then the others fight back, sometimes literally. We form groups and associations based on our believes and anyone who believes differently is wrong.

So can we make the world a better place, yes and no. I believe that if everyone believed in what I believe, the world would be a wonderful place. But not everyone believes that or is going to believe that. See what I mean? Trying to force change doesn’t work, I’ve learned that. Nobody really changes when they’re forced to, they change because they want to.

So how do we make the world a better place? We can’t. Instead we have to get the world to want to be a better place. So how do we do that? I don’t know, if I did, I’d be doing it and the world would be a better place.

[Giggling Ghast]

As have cancer, heart disease, air pollution, and suicide rates.

Air pollution is a societal ill that we're definitely responsible for, but isn't it sort of a given that more of us will succumb to cancer, heart disease or suicide if there are fewer of us succumbing to war, famine and other diseases? I mean, by that logic, the ebola epidemic is linked to the (virtual) eradication of polio.

[Tengu_temp]

As have cancer, heart disease, air pollution, and suicide rates.

Actually, air pollution levels have been steadily dropping since at least the 1970s. Suicide rates seem to wax and wane over time, with no clear tendency in either direction - they were at their lowest in the 1950s to 1980s, currently they're at roughly the same level as the start of the XX century (and much lower than the interwar period). As for heart disease and cancer, their rate of reporting has been increasing - of course there were no reported cases of cancer 150 years ago, because back in the day nobody knew what cancer is! But their actual rates have been noticably decreasing.

It's easy to look at the bad sides of the world around us and say that it's all been going downhill these days, but that's not true. The world is getting better. Your cynicism does not win with facts.

[Jaycemonde]

That’s another loaded question.

A lot of different people think that a lot of different things will make the world a better place. That’s the problem; everyone is on a different page. Everyone thinks that by spreading their personal opinion or belief across the world will make the world a better place, look at the three fictional characters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?380347-If-you-could-be-any-three-fictional-characters) thread and see how many people want the power to do just that.

Now who said that what you think and want is the same thing I think and want? Who are you to dictate to me what is right and good and just in this world? Who are you to decide what is right for me to think, and feel and believe in? See the problem? Everyone wants to force their beliefs onto others, and then the others fight back, sometimes literally. We form groups and associations based on our believes and anyone who believes differently is wrong.

So can we make the world a better place, yes and no. I believe that if everyone believed in what I believe, the world would be a wonderful place. But not everyone believes that or is going to believe that. See what I mean? Trying to force change doesn’t work, I’ve learned that. Nobody really changes when they’re forced to, they change because they want to.

So how do we make the world a better place? We can’t. Instead we have to get the world to want to be a better place. So how do we do that? I don’t know, if I did, I’d be doing it and the world would be a better place.

This post is sums it up beautifully. Thank.


Actually, air pollution levels have been steadily dropping since at least the 1970s. Suicide rates seem to wax and wane over time, with no clear tendency in either direction - they were at their lowest in the 1950s to 1980s, currently they're at roughly the same level as the start of the XX century (and much lower than the interwar period). As for heart disease and cancer, their rate of reporting has been increasing - of course there were no reported cases of cancer 150 years ago, because back in the day nobody knew what cancer is! But their actual rates have been noticably decreasing.

That too.

My general view on life is that I'm personally ****ed (I'm a pessimist, sue me.) but that life as we know it will go on more or less until we're all dead and have been succeeded by a few generations--and by that point, who are we to worry about it? Wow, that was a pretty morbid-sounding type of optimism, but there you go. In a lot of ways, the world is getting better than it once was. In another lot of ways, it's probably worse. But for the most part, it's exactly the same as it used to be. It's always going to be basically the same. Human nature doesn't change any more than the sun gets less bright. And as we all know, the sun is very, very bright.[Citation needed.]

[Gnomvid]

That’s another loaded question.

A lot of different people think that a lot of different things will make the world a better place. That’s the problem; everyone is on a different page. Everyone thinks that by spreading their personal opinion or belief across the world will make the world a better place, look at the three fictional characters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?380347-If-you-could-be-any-three-fictional-characters) thread and see how many people want the power to do just that.

Now who said that what you think and want is the same thing I think and want? Who are you to dictate to me what is right and good and just in this world? Who are you to decide what is right for me to think, and feel and believe in? See the problem? Everyone wants to force their beliefs onto others, and then the others fight back, sometimes literally. We form groups and associations based on our believes and anyone who believes differently is wrong.

So can we make the world a better place, yes and no. I believe that if everyone believed in what I believe, the world would be a wonderful place. But not everyone believes that or is going to believe that. See what I mean? Trying to force change doesn’t work, I’ve learned that. Nobody really changes when they’re forced to, they change because they want to.

So how do we make the world a better place? We can’t. Instead we have to get the world to want to be a better place. So how do we do that? I don’t know, if I did, I’d be doing it and the world would be a better place.

And trying to force change onto others is one of the biggest reasons there's so many problems in the world at the moment, unless humanity as a whole have something to rally for or against it will never be a better place than what we have at the moment.
{Scrubbed}

[Grinner]

It's easy to look at the bad sides of the world around us and say that it's all been going downhill these days, but that's not true. The world is getting better. Your cynicism does not win with facts.{scrubbed}

[Spiryt]

{scrubbed}

[Chen]

As have cancer, heart disease, air pollution, and suicide rates.

Cancer rates are pretty flatlined in the US actually. Incidence is actually slightly decreasing. Regardless, deaths due to cancer have MASSIVELY decreased with time due to better treatments. Heart disease is similar (though its rate is increasing, worldwide). Note too though that increased incidence may simply be better diagnoses rather than actual increased cases. Clearly our diagnostic methods have gotten better as time goes on, so simply detecting the diseases are much easier now. Can't argue the air pollution one. Suicide rate, while increasing over the last couple of years is still remarkably flat overall (at least in the US which is what I found statistics for).

[Tengu_temp]

Please, you thought that's all I had? I'm sitting on a whole Pandora's Box of every woe imaginable. :smallamused:

And I bet most, if not all of them, are things that are getting better as time goes on.

{Scrubbed}

[Grinner]

{scrubbed}

[Gnomvid]

{scrubbed}

I'd have to agree for one living conditions are dependent on wealth and wealth is not abundantly available everywhere.

[shawnhcorey]

1. Inalienable Rights: Everybody has them and they should be respected.

2. Communication: When people can freely talk to each other, they can find solutions to their problems.

3. Science: Insisting on evidence to support policy.

[Gwynfrid]

And I bet most, if not all of them, are things that are getting better as time goes on.

In my experience, trying to convince someone that the world is getting better never, ever works. You can quote all the facts you want, you will get other facts. You can list stats that show the world has less hunger, less wars, less disease, less crime, less child mortality, more education, more tolerance, more freedom, longer human life, etc. You will get told that stats are just sophisticated lies. You can talk about the world improving: You will get told that not every local area is improving. You can agree on some narrow improvement, but you'll get told about the flip side - there's pretty much always one. Such as, we're all more informed nowadays with the Internet and all: Pessimists will argue that information overload and the ease of propagating lies means we're actually worse informed than before. Etc.

My take: Folks will never agree the world is improving unless they, personally, are satisfied with it, or at least more satisfied with it than they used to be at some earlier point. That means personal happiness, but also, it means the world must conform to their personal preference of how it should go. See TheThan's remarks, above, for a good description of how that works.

The best you can do is explain why you believe the world is on a path to improvement and leave it at that.

[Tengu_temp]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}

More or less 5 minutes ago. Also, wow. Anecdote against fact. So convincing.


In my experience, trying to convince someone that the world is getting better never, ever works.

I'm not really trying to convince Grinner, I know he's a lost cause. I'm trying to show other people reading this thread why what he's saying is wrong. Objectively wrong, because he's completely ignoring facts and statistical data.

[BannedInSchool]

(From memory)
Cartman: "I'm just trying to make the world a better place."
Stan(?): "For you. You're trying to make the world a better place for you."
C: "Yeah, that's what I said."

Just had to put that in once it came to mind. :smallsmile:

[Grinner]

My take: Folks will never agree the world is improving unless they, personally, are satisfied with it, or at least more satisfied with it than they used to be at some earlier point. That means personal happiness, but also, it means the world must conform to their personal preference of how it should go. See TheThan's remarks, above, for a good description of how that works.

This is a good take on the conflict here.

Sure, most of us are better fed than we were five hundred years ago, but I'd say there's much more to the human experience than a few statistical metrics, going back to the issue of creating problems as we solve them.

[Tengu_temp]

I say it's better to be fed and depressed than starving and depressed. Don't look at the past with rose-tinted glasses, if life today sucks for you then life back then would suck even more.

[Grinner]

More or less 5 minutes ago. Also, wow. Anecdote against fact. So convincing.

And you miss the point completely...Perhaps I should be more direct...

Okay. When was the last time you, a presumably well-off first world citizen, actually got up and talked with people of a different social class? To people with actual problems? When was the last time you turned on the news to the constant bloodshed, both at home and abroad?

[Mx.Silver]

Things that definitely won't improve anything:

Saying it's pointless to try
Messing around on the internet


The latter part is because you're generally not going to find much in the way this sort of pro-activity in an online community of nerds (especially since nerds aren't the most societally focussed bunch of people). Contrary to what a lot of 'clicktivism' efforts would have you believe, the internet isn't all that effective in terms of affecting change by itself - although it can be useful for communication and getting money to places it's needed.

The former is fairly obvious, as not trying guarantees you will make no impact. It is however a common trap people fall into. This is again quite common in the case of nerdier people who have grown-up on stories of small groups of people 'saving the world' and find running up against the real-world, where this doesn't happen, disillusioning.


In terms of actual advice, try to find and identify problems you can actually work towards fixing. These could be in your local community which you can personally assist with, or further afield ones you can assist with through charity work and/or donations. Find ones that are good, and invest some time and effort into them. Get and stay informed about various problems and things that can be done about them, and if you can't do it personally try to enable and assist those who can.
The other thing is to keep your expectations realistic. Positive change is a gradual, slow process. It will not come about suddenly in 'save the world' moments, and it's very unlikely to come about by people acting by themselves without cooperation. Accept this, and don't downplay what victories are achieved just because they don't have an immediate effect on all 7 billion+ people on the planet.

[Tengu_temp]

Okay. When was the last time you, a presumably well-off first world citizen, actually got up and talked with people of a different social class? To people with actual problems? When was the last time you turned on the news to the constant bloodshed, both at home and abroad?

You do realize that the number of people living in poverty, crime rate, and number and scale of conflicts over the world are all factors that are constantly decreasing as time goes on, right?

[aspi]

But there's still troubles with this world and our culture.
How do we fix it? How do we make the world a better place?
What do we need to do to improve our society?

I'd say first off by acknowledging that this is an overly simplified statement:

Something i learned studying history is that the past sucks, a lot [...]
As we can witness in this thread, we don't all agree on that and some argue that th present sucks as well. So it isn't a good starting point.

Not everything was bad in the past and is getting better now. Yes people live longer on average - I don't think anyone here wants to argue that a decreased rate of infantile death is a bad thing: half of us wouldn't be having this discussion 1000 years ago because we'd have died as infants. That's positive progress for everyone and increasingly applies to even people in poor countries. I'd say we can objectively claim that on average, people live longer and it is a good thing to have more lifetime as a person. But this also increases population which brings other problems with it that could be considered bad.

Then again some things were better in the past - tooth decay is something that largely became relevant due to a diet that is rich in carbohydrates, which is only possible because of agriculture. So while we have advances in dental medicine, we are in this respect likely still worse off than our ancestors a million years ago, even if it's better now than it was in the middle ages. But on the other hand, we have the potential of feeding people even if a bad couple of years come around because we have the option to create and stockpile food.

I always have to smile at this question, because it's so ill defined from a formal point of view. What do you mean by improve? There's a million different aspects of our life that could be better or worse than they were at any given point in time in the past. Even if we could somehow obtain an accurate average level over all people in the world for those aspects, how would we combine them into a single, objective measure of "life quality" and see if it's going up or down?

Personally, I think I'm rather neutral on the issue. I don't think it's going up or down. Most of our problems come from human nature and the human condition and I don't see that changing anytime soon. We're just as magnificent and just as pathetic as our ancestors, it just shows differently since modern society is different. but we aren't any better or worse. To limit it to western society as an example: sure, we don't publicly shame people at the stocks anymore, we do it on the internet. But the underlying moral deficiency that compells us to do so hasn't changed one bit.

True improvement can't just be due to technology, it also requires ethics and - more importantly - the conviction to actually follow these. And seeing how many of those basic concepts of getting along have been around for thousands of years (think 10 Comandmends, Greek philosophers, etc) while we still struggle with following them to this day, I really wouldn't say that we're getting ahead in any significant way as a species. We're just constantly changing the playing field.


You do realize that the number of people living in poverty, crime rate, and number and scale of conflicts over the world are all factors that are constantly decreasing as time goes on, right?
I'm pretty sure that there are more people living in poverty right now than there were people alive at all 1000 years ago. So your use of constantly isn't exactly warranted.

[Tengu_temp]

As we can witness in this thread, we don't all agree on that and some argue that th present sucks as well. So it isn't a good starting point.

This is not a matter of opinion. The only way to claim that the world was better 50, 100 or 200 years ago is to wear thick nostalgia goggles (often nostalgic for a time before you were even born, on top of that) and to willfully ignore facts.


I'm pretty sure that there are more people living in poverty right now than there were people alive at all 1000 years ago. So your use of constantly isn't exactly warranted.

I should've specified, I'm going with percentages. A society of 900 rich and 100 poor people has smaller poverty rate than a society of 50 rich and 50 poor people.

[aspi]

This is not a matter of opinion. The only way to claim that the world was better 50, 100 or 200 years ago is to wear thick nostalgia goggles (often nostalgic for a time before you were even born, on top of that) and to willfully ignore facts.
Sorry but yes, it is a matter of opinion. I just explained why the statement can't be made in a bland, generalized way since there are some factors that improve while some others decline. I even gave examples. It becomes a matter of opinion because the weight that one assigns to those individual factors matters, as well as the selection of factors that one deems relevant.

When you state it as a fact that the world as a whole is better today, that makes this your opinion based on the number of facts that you personally deem relevant. Yet you accuse every "pessimist" in this thread of willfully ignoring facts? :smallconfused:

[Tengu_temp]

The ways in which people's lives have changed for the worse over the years are incredibly minor. If the only thing you care about is obesity rate or tooth decay then yeah, life has gotten worse in those aspects. But those are incredibly minor elements of what constitutes the quality of life. And yes, people who claim that life is getting worse usually completely ignore data that shows crime and poverty rates are falling while health and education levels are increasing.

---

To keep this more on topic, let me restate some points:
1. How much a normal everyday person can do to improve the world is usually not a lot.
2. That's okay, because just living life as a decent, honest person is enough to make it a little bit better.
3. Lots of little acts of good from a large amount of people do make a diference. Life is generally better in places where people are nice to each other.
4. The world is slowly getting better in general. You don't have to actively pursue good at all cost.

You don't have to be a hero to make the world a better place. Just be nice, help when you have an opportunity to help, and don't be a jerk.

[SiuiS]

I say it's better to be fed and depressed than starving and depressed. Don't look at the past with rose-tinted glasses, if life today sucks for you then life back then would suck even more.

This is mostly true. There are people for whom slightly worse conditions which require more discipline to maintain would be a drastic quality of life improver, but I can safely assume those people are, if not outliers, low end of the curve.


Things that definitely won't improve anything:

Saying it's pointless to try
Messing around on the internet


The latter part is because you're generally not going to find much in the way this sort of pro-activity in an online community of nerds (especially since nerds aren't the most societally focussed bunch of people). Contrary to what a lot of 'clicktivism' efforts would have you believe, the internet isn't all that effective in terms of affecting change by itself - although it can be useful for communication and getting money to places it's needed.

I disagree with #2. The Internet runs on word of mouth, which is the best advertising strategy period. Often, just having enough information in the right place will let one person affect ten, and if one or two of those ten directly change their behavior, you've succeeded beyond bare minimum.

As for your clicktivism thing, I cannot agree. Why do people, media especially, insist that Internet activism doesn't work, and physical, meatspace activism is rebellion and rioting? It sounds an awful lot like people just don't want you to be active, period. Nuts to that! If Internet activism didn't work, then no one would know jack-all about Ferguson, which is under a literal media blackout?


You do realize that the number of people living in poverty, crime rate, and number and scale of conflicts over the world are all factors that are constantly decreasing as time goes on, right?

Trouble seems to be that it's an unequal change, which becomes unfair and oppressive in it's own right.


This is not a matter of opinion. The only way to claim that the world was better 50, 100 or 200 years ago is to wear thick nostalgia goggles (often nostalgic for a time before you were even born, on top of that) and to willfully ignore facts.

Or to have a different definition to work from.

What is "better"? I'm not being snarky or anything, either. Like, without this easy to overlook step of getting consensus or laying down a definition, whichever, this conversation is squabbling at the foot of Babbel tower – ain't nopony gonna understand anypony.

[Mx.Silver]

I disagree with #2. The Internet runs on word of mouth, which is the best advertising strategy period. Often, just having enough information in the right place will let one person affect ten, and if one or two of those ten directly change their behavior, you've succeeded beyond bare minimum.
I think you may be missing the first two words of that point; which I would say are fairly crucial to its overall meaning. Specifically you're not going to be getting much done if you're distracted by pointless online arguments.

The word of mouth aspect I agree with, but it can also a double-edged sword. The internet is at least as good at spreading misinformation as it is facts, especially given how few people will go out of their way to fact-check. Which is again important to consider.


As for your clicktivism thing, I cannot agree. Why do people, media especially, insist that Internet activism doesn't work, and physical, meatspace activism is rebellion and rioting? It sounds an awful lot like people just don't want you to be active, period. Nuts to that! If Internet activism didn't work, then no one would know jack-all about Ferguson, which is under a literal media blackout?


Internet is good for raising awareness, but being aware of something is only the start of things. The upshot being that if you want to 'make the world a better place' you should take at least some action beyond clicking the 'share' button. That's what I see as being the distinguishing feature between activism and 'clicktivism'; the latter is characterised by the underlying assumption that its awareness raising is making enough of a difference by itself, when, unless the goal is exclusively based around clearing-up misconceptions, it's going to be a start point rather than an end point.

It's not as obnoxious as 'voluntourism'*, I'll grant, but just that it's import to note that if one wants to improve the state of the world, then one should be looking for ways to contribute beyond that. It's not that talking about things on the internet is useless, it's that it's unlikely to be enough by itself.


*i.e. the practice of 'volunteering' abroad for the experience of it, rather than because doing so will actually result in much of a useful benefit.

[SiuiS]

I think you may be missing the first two words of that point; which I would say are fairly crucial to its overall meaning. Specifically you're not going to be getting much done if you're distracted by pointless online arguments.

Hmm. I know what you mean, but I still disagree. I think this is another abstraction split. Literally, you mister silver beig distracted by Internet arguments means you mister silver are not actively doing good things with your own hands, yes. However, someone else coming in to read that argument may themselves be swayed to change a behavior or actively do a thing, or even just become better more conscientious people. So on the more abstract 'you are constantly changing the world around you' level, [my point you quoted].


The word of mouth aspect I agree with, but it can also a double-edged sword. The internet is at least as good at spreading misinformation as it is facts, especially given how few people will go out of their way to fact-check. Which is again important to consider.

Yes.


Internet is good for raising awareness, but being aware of something is only the start of things.

See, this is a matter of assumption. The Internet is a logistical tool. Yes, that groundwork can be used solely to promote awareness, and that's what a lot of us who grew up along with the Internet are used to – I legitimately stop and remember that I can find any information if I look for it, because I'm just old enough to have languished under "I don't know where in the library to even begin doing research" and not having. A library card.

The Internet can also do actual things however. It can organize, prioritize, deliver and parse. Flash mobs are, now, spurious wastes of teenage manpower. But the ability to have a coordinated force assemble in an area with a task within hours or a day is tremendous and could do a whole hell of a lot if we stopped treating the idea with disdain as being childish. Y'know?

[Killer Angel]

But there's still troubles with this world and our culture.
How do we fix it? How do we make the world a better place?
What do we need to do to improve our society?

For a starter, if we all could adopt the simple Golden Rule "don't do to others what you don't want done to you", I'm pretty sure 90% of our problems would be fixed.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: One small way to make the world a better place would be to not muck up this forum with topics that are explicitly inappropriate here. In particular, real world politics or religion should be avoided, regardless of context. Thread closed for review. Thread closed permanently.