I finally communicated my epic frustration to my DM

[Dalebert]

So I played a gravewalker and my DM seemed okay with it. In fact, he's the one who told me about the archetype and suggested I might like it when I expressed interest in playing a witch. Meanwhile, events have consistently conspired to make me regret that decision. We're now 8th level and I have two kobold bloody skeletons--Str of 6 so -2 to-hit and dmg. They're not even useful for carrying things, they're so weak. I just got the ability that lets me possess my minions, pretty much the only reason I played a gravewalker in hopes I could possess a vampire or some such. Other than that, it doesn't make much sense to play a gravewalker and give up three hexes when you're better off just choosing the plague patron which gets you all the undead type spells.

So 1st level I bonethralled a kobold skeleton which quickly got destroyed. Third level I got excited because I took Undead Master and could now bonethrall more HD of undead. We haven't encountered any. Finally, the DM had us encounter a powerful necromancer who was friendly to us and he just flat out gave me my pick of his minions. All he had were kobolds which is why I have two of those useless things.

When I started talking about plans to animate a decent undead mount from some kind of wild cat and trying to figure a way to get my hands on one, he suddenly said there are no animals anywhere that we could find. He has said there's a reason for that that will make sense later and that it's not permanent. I can't even find a bird or a rat to animate.

So besides not encountering undead, we also haven't encountered anything I could animate since I got animate dead. We keep fighting oozes, outsiders who dissolve into goo when they die, evil mists, etc. Finally we found some human skeletons, just one HD but at least strong enough to carry stuff and be kind of sort of useful so I animated them. Right after, we fought hydras. Someone in my group started talking about how cool it would be when I animated them and we had hydra skeletons. That whole scenario turned out to be a dream or a time warp or both or something. The human skeletons were gone and there were no hydra bodies. I look back on it, and I can't help but feel like he retconned the whole thing to be a dream when someone mentioned animating their skeletons.

I just sent him an email tactfully expressing my "epic" frustration and asking if he's uncomfortable with my choice and would like me to change archetypes. He has said in the past that if I wasn't happy with a gravewalker, that it would be re-trainable. I'd rather talk to him in person but I hardly ever see him between games lately.

[HighWater]

Do you have some sort of question or statement for us to discuss?

Otherwise: it sucks when it seems a DM is just saying "NO" to your character's abilities.

[Dalebert]

Do you have some sort of question or statement for us to discuss?

Otherwise: it sucks when it seems a DM is just saying "NO" to your character's abilities.

Hehe. No. I guess I'm just venting and seeking validation. Are my frustrations warranted?

I was actually about to post here about my frustrations and I realized that people were going to say "talk to your DM" so I did that first and then came here to vent.

[Psyren]

Without undead to fight or corpses to animate, Gravewalker is pretty lackluster I agree. About the only other relevant ability you have is the very slow touch spell delivery - not worth two hexes and a real familiar that could be giving you skill/save/initiative bonuses and/or extra senses.

Sounds like you're already talking to the DM but I would make sure you emphasize "this is not what I envisioned for the character and if most of my abilities are going to be useless I'd rather be a different kind of witch instead.

Also, if you're fighting a lot of oozes as a witch, don't forget coaxing spell.

[Dalebert]

Sounds like you're already talking to the DM but I would make sure you emphasize "this is not what I envisioned for the character and if most of my abilities are going to be useless I'd rather be a different kind of witch instead.

Thanks and yes, that's pretty much what I said. We actually had this discussion when I was contemplating whether to pick the archetype. I expressed how dependent the usefulness of this character is on there being undead for us to fight. I even said back then that mindless undead don't scale well and it would only really make it worthwhile if I had intelligent undead to possess.


Also, if you're fighting a lot of oozes as a witch, don't forget coaxing spell.

True, but knowing this DM, we'll stop encountering oozes as soon as I take it! haha.

This game has turned out to be just very weird and non-standard. That's fine, but it doesn't seem to pay to have a character who is too specialized for a certain thing. I'm very inclined to just go str8 witch without any archetype and then shadow patron for the sheer versatility.

[nedz]

Select a suitable NPC, of which your DM is fond
Manufacture some way of portraying them as having betrayed the party
Kill and animate them
?

[SMWallace]

Select a suitable NPC, of which your DM is fond
Manufacture some way of portraying them as having betrayed the party
Kill and animate them
?


Find out it was an illusion... Manufactured by a Kobold with an almost-spent wand.

[D4rkh0rus]

Select a suitable NPC, of which your DM is fond
Manufacture some way of portraying them as having betrayed the party
Kill and animate them
?


From what I gathered from OP's DM. As soon as #4 happens, they will all wake up, that NPC was all just a dream...
Edit: Ninjaed ><

Anyways, to the OP, you stated that your DM -convinced- you to play that class. IS the DM an acquaintance of yours, or hava you played in any previous campaigns where he was a player or DM?
It might be possible that he thought your char was really strong and might be trying to nerf you, albeit the method he would be using is pretty bad and insulting.

But anyways your DM convinced you, so he had part in the decision. If hes not throwing you a bone (Pun very much intended) then you're doing right in complaining to him. I mean, I might understand the whole hydra thing, they can get cheesy with feats and stuff when you raise them, but hes not even giving you an undead servant that can carry your stuff? now thats just him trying to nerf you cause hes afraid.


theres many variables as well, are you the only one feeling lacklustre? cause if everyone is, its just a DM'ing Style. the few times I've DM'ed ive pretty much pit my parties against almost impossible odds (if faced through combat) so they had to think. afterwards they eventualy obtain weapons/armor and can just smash their way, but most of the time, they keep that planning aspect.

[NotScaryBats]

I think a DM only has to be burned once by minionmancy to really, really be wary of it in the future. I personally hate dread necromancers because of this, and am really wary whenever a PC wants to do anything similar to this.

that said, I'd never suggest my PC play a class I really dislike to DM for. That seems odd. Maybe there was some sort of misunderstanding...?

[Dalebert]

[COLOR="#0000FF"]Anyways, to the OP, you stated that your DM -convinced- you to play that class. IS the DM an acquaintance of yours, or hava you played in any previous campaigns where he was a player or DM?

Yes, we were friends and he was playing in my game before he started his game. We actually had in depth conversations wherein I expressed that the only thing that makes the gravewalker worthwhile is the idea of possessing intelligent undead. I like the idea of being able to be a vampire without actually having to BE a vampire, for instance. It's wrought with complications though and hence my reluctance, like the fact that your intelligent undead minions aren't really so much under your control as much as just your buddies and so how will they react to being possessed? He reassured me that this should mostly kinda work out okay and that being undead they're not actually so sensitive about such things. I remained skeptical but decided to give it a shot and he assured me I could change my mind later, so I'm now taking him up on that.


It might be possible that he thought your char was really strong and might be trying to nerf you, albeit the method he would be using is pretty bad and insulting.

Right, that's my feeling, that he's worried about how powerful I could get, but it's still all completely theoretical because I most definitely have not been that strong. I've arguably been relatively ineffective for a tier 1 caster because I gave up three hexes and a familiar for other abilities that have thus far been accumulating rust. And what abilities and spells I have left have often been nearly useless against the weird monsters he's been pitting us against like LOTS of oozes. We've encountered them maybe half a dozen times and they're weird oozes I hadn't even heard of before. PF has a lot, apparently.


theres many variables as well, are you the only one feeling lacklustre? cause if everyone is, its just a DM'ing Style.

I think it's mainly just me. I'm probably the only player who gives much thought to optimizing almost to the point that it's frustrating how sloppy some folks seem to be about their choices. I even made a post a while back that I feel like I have to be extra thoughtful about how to be effective to make up for other people not thinking about it and just flying by the seat of their pants. We've had MANY very challenging encounters where we barely made it. I definitely don't feel overpowered, at least not yet.

[Rubik]

I'm very inclined to just go str8 witchShouldn't you boost your Str score, since you can't find anything to carry your stuff for you?

Or:


I'm very inclined to just go str8 witchL3375P34K is r00d.

[Dalebert]

I'm pretty sure I want to drop the gravewalker archetype and I'm pretty sure my DM is going to be pretty lenient about it. He hasn't responded to my email yet but he said as much when I picked it. I'm torn between sticking with the shadow patron or the agility patron. Does anyone want to talk me into one or the other?

Shadow seems great for the sheer versatility of shadow magic, but shadow magic has the inherent limit of always giving a will save to ignore most of the effect. Lots of the spells are useful regardless of that though, like phantom steed. Witches have no wall spells and this would give me those, sort of.

Agility just has some of my favorite spells though--haste, freedom of movement, and shapechange if we ever get to lvl 18.

[JusticeZero]

Focus on buffing. The GM is already showing severe negation railing, and anything you do that is effective will be countered by the setting. If you are just enhancing everyone else, there's little to counter and the OPness is distributed over the party.

[Dalebert]

I'm also hoping my DM will let me take Improved Familiar and that leaves me torn between Lyrakien (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/azata/azata-lyrakien) and Silvanshee (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/agathion/agathion-silvanshee).The Lyrakien is humanoid and so it could use more magic items, I think. Does anyone know how body slots work for cats, if at all? Can the Lyrakien use items as a sorcerer? They both seem better than a faerie dragon UNLESS it can advance as a sorcerer the way they do in the wild. Does anyone know about that?