[3.P] Template stacking question

[LordAshenshield]

Ok so say I am playing in a level 5 game and I bring a Necropolitian Human as my race. (Yes it is a template). But say I want to stack Graveknight or Undead Lord. Can I stack those effectively? What if I go Necropolitian Undead Lord Dragonborn of Bahamet (Yes Undead Lord does not require evil alignment) Would those three stack?

[torrasque666]

Templates are changes made in accordance with a set structure(a template). As long as you meet the requirements to have the changes applied, its valid. Templates always stack unless specified otherwise.

[LordAshenshield]

Would Dragonborn replaces all the features of Necropolitian and Undead lord though?

[Red Fel]

Would Dragonborn replaces all the features of Necropolitian and Undead lord though?

Most of them, probably. Dragonborn replaces a lot. There is also some debate as to whether it would replace the Undead type, or whether it would let you retain that (and simply gain the Dragonblood subtype). If you lose the Undead type, though... You've kind of lost pretty much all of the important stuff, haven't you?

[Fax Celestis]

Templates are not applied concurrently: they are applied in order. A human > necropolitan > dragonborn is different from a human > Dragonborn > necropolitan.

[LordAshenshield]

Templates are not applied concurrently: they are applied in order. A human > necropolitan > dragonborn is different from a human > Dragonborn > necropolitan.

Yes I was thinking that it required what order it was applied. Technically speaking you could go Human >Dragonborn> Necropolitan > UndeadLord and it would still work. But I would apply it Human > Necropolitan > Dragonborn > Undead Lord (As Undead Lord is not evil so does not remove dragonborn and would just make you Lord of the Dragonblooded Undead, not just simple Undead)

Seeing how Dragonborn says it does not change your type I think you would be Humaniod (Dragonblooded Undead)

Least that is my theory.

[Fax Celestis]

Undead isn't a subtype, much to my chagrin. You'd be an Undead (augmented humanoid (human, dragonblooded)), unless I'm misremembering and Dragonborn strips your old typing, in which case you'd be a undead (augmented humanoid (dragonblooded)).

[torrasque666]

Dragonborn explicitly says you keep your subtypes.

[OldTrees1]

Dragonborn explicitly says you keep your subtypes.

*keep your Type and subtypes. (Fixed for readers)

[Fax Celestis]

So yeah, either way would be an undead (augmented humanoid (human, dragonblooded)).

However, applying dragonborn second would wipe most of necropolitan's features.

[Wacky89]

the question is if bahamut wants to accept an individual who actually accepted the methods used to make you a necropolitan :smallbiggrin:

[LordAshenshield]

Undead isn't a subtype, much to my chagrin. You'd be an Undead (augmented humanoid (human, dragonblooded)), unless I'm misremembering and Dragonborn strips your old typing, in which case you'd be a undead (augmented humanoid (dragonblooded)).
Type, Subtype, and Race: You retain your original type and
subtypes, gaining the dragonblood subtype. You still count as
a member of your original race for the purpose of any effect or
prerequisite that depends on race.

So you would keep Undead regardless.

[Red Fel]

the question is if bahamut wants to accept an individual who actually accepted the methods used to make you a necropolitan :smallbiggrin:

This is actually a pretty good point. Yes, mechanically, if you went Dragonborn first and Necropolitan second, the RAW says you should probably be alright. But the fluff - and Dragonborn is pretty fluffy for a reptile - says that Dragonborn take pride in their appearance and act as emissaries to the other races. That the physical form with which they are blessed is immaculate and a symbol of their sacred trust. And your character is, essentially, saying, "Yeah, my majestic draconic form is a blessing from Bahamut. But you know what would be even cooler? Rotting somewhat." I don't see Bahamut being happy about that, even if you remain non-Evil.

[Fax Celestis]

This is actually a pretty good point. Yes, mechanically, if you went Dragonborn first and Necropolitan second, the RAW says you should probably be alright. But the fluff - and Dragonborn is pretty fluffy for a reptile - says that Dragonborn take pride in their appearance and act as emissaries to the other races. That the physical form with which they are blessed is immaculate and a symbol of their sacred trust. And your character is, essentially, saying, "Yeah, my majestic draconic form is a blessing from Bahamut. But you know what would be even cooler? Rotting somewhat." I don't see Bahamut being happy about that, even if you remain non-Evil.

Sure, but I'm betting Tiamat loves turning Bahamut's special happy funtimes children to her own ends.

[Red Fel]

Sure, but I'm betting Tiamat loves turning Bahamut's special happy funtimes children to her own ends.

True, but if you go that route, there's the whole thing about Bahamut literally flaying the template from your body. Nasty stuff. Very messy. Much owie.

[UmpteenthDoctor]

Necropolitan does not have many race traits one of which you get at a +2better from undead lord. So be a necro who saw the error of you ways then got into a beef with a dragon. Or better yet have it be you became undead in hopes of fighting the dragon. Then asked bahamet to aid you as you have shown dedication to the cause by cursing yourself with unlife just to take it down.

Human >necropalitan>dragonborn>undead lord works.

[LordAshenshield]

I really like that last idea. Might even work well for a Raptoran Dragonborn template cliche.

[OldTrees1]

I really like that last idea. Might even work well for a Raptoran Dragonborn template cliche.

You mean the Raptorian + 3 levels + Necropolitian +4 more levels + Dragonborn + Undead Lord?

[Inevitability]

If you want to change an undead's type back to humanoid, just slap Human Heritage on it. It'd even work on an undead human.

To quote one of our favorite orcs:

"chief grukgruk half orc too. other half, also orc."

[LordAshenshield]

Raptorian 5 gets flight, transform it into a Necropolitain drops it to level 4 after another level it takes Dragonborn. Then it can stack Undead Lord freely.
So it can only take Dragonborn after ECL 6

[Arcanist]

This is actually a pretty good point. Yes, mechanically, if you went Dragonborn first and Necropolitan second, the RAW says you should probably be alright. But the fluff - and Dragonborn is pretty fluffy for a reptile - says that Dragonborn take pride in their appearance and act as emissaries to the other races. That the physical form with which they are blessed is immaculate and a symbol of their sacred trust. And your character is, essentially, saying, "Yeah, my majestic draconic form is a blessing from Bahamut. But you know what would be even cooler? Rotting somewhat." I don't see Bahamut being happy about that, even if you remain non-Evil.

I disagree. I think Bahamut would be a weebit proud that one of his Dragonborn wish to serve him for all eternity. Maybe they won't get that political position they've been cruising for, but they'll always have Good Dragons to protect, and Evil Dragons to destroy so maybe it isn't all too bad.

[torrasque666]

Assuming that the Undead Lord template in question is either of these:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/undead-lord-cr-1-or-2-tohc

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/undead-lord-template

It can't be applied afterwords. Its an inherited template and must be applied at creation.

[OldTrees1]

How does an inherited template work if it requires the creature to already be undead and it specifically says there is one for every type of undead(including those created via Acquired templates)?

[LordAshenshield]

What does it mean to inherit the template?

Adjustment would be to be a level 6 Raptorain then take all three templates at level 6

[Divide by Zero]

How does an inherited template work if it requires the creature to already be undead and it specifically says there is one for every type of undead(including those created via Acquired templates)?
Poor writing, presumably.

What does it mean to inherit the template?

An inherited template is one that a creature is born with. In game terms, it has to be applied before gaining any class levels or non-inherited templates.