Cleric/Fighter/Suel Arcanamach/Dragon Disciple... Am I doing this right?

[Burnicle]

Hello all, I am making a character and I wanted something that is mainly melee focused, but has access to a few spells. I also really like the idea of becoming a dragon (or half dragon),and the fact it gives bonus spells and increases my str just seemed like icing on the cake!

I'm making a 9th level character and have figured out the following:

3 levels of cleric: +2 BAB, access to second level spells/domains, knowledge Arcana, and Spellcrafting (For entry reqs)

4 levels of fighter: +4 BAB, 3 bonus feats (For SA entry reqs)

2 levels of Suel Arcanamach: Spells, ignore spell failure 5%, dispelling strike, tenacious spells.

Dragon Disciple!

I'm worried that I've made an unplayable character that lacks focus just to squeeze into SA and DD. I have only limited experience playing dnd (But I think about it a lot...maybe too much!) so I would appreciate any notes

[Fax Celestis]

Dragon Disciple is pretty widely regarded as a terrible class. You should honestly just stay in Arcanamach and ask your DM if you can take the Draconic template (Draconomicon) as a level somewhere in your progression.

[Burnicle]

Thanks for the reply.

Why is Dragon Disciple a terrible class? I was looking for ways to increase my strength, is there a better way? I was thinking +2 size bonus from enlarge person, +4 from bulls strength... the +4 str from DD would have helped! :smalltongue:

Is Suel Arcanamach considered an ok class? :smallsmile:

[Andezzar]

Why is Dragon Disciple a terrible class? I was looking for ways to increase my strength, is there a better way? I was thinking +2 size bonus from enlarge person, +4 from bulls strength... the +4 str from DD would have helped! :smalltongue:you get +4 over ten levels of dragon disciple, but you lose 3 BAB as well compared to a Full BAB class. So your attack only increases by 1.

The other problem is that the PrC requires casting to enter, but does not advance casting at all besides the few extra spells per day.

Sorry, can't help you with the Suel Arcanamach.

[Fax Celestis]

DD is bad mostly because it doesn't really do anything that you can't get out of equipment.

Suel is pretty good though.

[Hazzardevil]

I would drop Dragon Disciple and replace it with one of the many dragon themed prestige classes in Draconomicon, Dragon Magic or Races of the Dragon. Dracolexi from Races of the Dragon looks useful, so you could add extra effects you your spells and gain some dragon themed abilities.

In your place I would probably structure the build as follows:
Warlock 4/Fighter 2/Full BAB 1/Suel 4/Swiftblade 9
Which caps out at 20, you would want to refluff Warlock though to be more like Dragonfire Adept, but that shouldn't be a problem.
Or you could use Battle Dancer 1/Paladin 2/Hexblade 3/Suel 4/Hexblade 10
Battle Dancer from Dragon Compendium gives Charisma to AC, Paladin gives Charisma to saves and Hexblade gives you charisma on saves against spells and metttle, which is evasion for fortitude and will saves.
That way you have a near full BAB caster with Charisma as a stat fueling almost everything you need.

[Fax Celestis]

Dragonfire Adept would be better than Warlock, imo, in keeping with the dragon theme.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Switch it to Duskblade 2/ (pick two of: Fighter 2, Paladin 2, Crusader 2)/ Suel Arcanamach. You want the final 20th level build to be Duskblade 2/ (Full BAB) 4/ Suel Arcanamach 4/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Spellsword 1/ Dragon Disciple 4.

If you really really want the full Half-Dragon template, there are much better ways than Dragon Disciple. You can gradually gain Half-Dragon (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a), and you don't have to take it in uninterrupted succession (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a). According to that each level in a template class increases the character's level adjustment by +1, and level adjustment can be bought off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). Go Duskblade 1/ Half Dragon +1/ Duskblade 1/ Fighter 2, you've gained three times as many levels as your LA so you can buy it off for 4,000 xp, reducing your total character level by one but not losing any class levels or other benefits. You'll now be gaining more xp per encounter than the rest of the party and should catch back up. You're currently Duskblade 2/ Fighter 2, with the first level of the Half-Dragon template class bought off. Spend your next levels on Half-Dragon +1/ Crusader or Paladin 2/ Suel Arcanamach 1, you've gained three times as many class levels as your LA so you can buy that one off for 7,000 xp. Again you go down exactly one experience level while reducing your LA by one, so you don't lose any actual levels and you're again a level lower than the party and will get more xp per encounter until you catch up. You're a Duskblade 2/ Fighter 2/ Crusader or Paladin 2/ Suel Arcanamach 1, so gain Half-Dragon +1/ Suel Arcanamach 3 and you can buy off that last point for 10,000 xp. You now have the full Half-Dragon template with no LA, it cost you 21,000 xp but the more xp you spend the more you gain, assuming your DM follows the rules on xp rewards. In the above build I would replace the last four levels with Crusader, since you would no longer qualify for DD.

Edit: When gaining the Half-Dragon template this way, you can also get Enlarge Person + Permanency before gaining the final level of it to gain wings. As long as you're large size upon gaining that final level, you gain wings and a fly speed. That final level changes your creature type to Dragon so Enlarge Person would no longer affect you, but being large upon gaining it is all that matters, that you wouldn't be large any more after gaining it is irrelevant.

[torrasque666]

Warning: Following Biffoniacus_Furiou's suggestions may result in book-shaped head injuries.

[darksolitaire]

Warning: Following Biffoniacus_Furiou's suggestions may result in book-shaped head injuries.

Are you implying that not all DMs are cool with using two different variant rules and combining them in a way that was never expected by their designers? :smalltongue:

[Burnicle]

Thanks for all the replies!

I'll check with my DM about Draconomicon, Dragon Magic and Races of the Dragon, as I wish to avoid book shaped injuries! :smalltongue: