New Exploit: The Fifth-Level Titan

[...]

I have found a new exploit (I think it's new, at least). This is something you can do at fifth level (hence the title), requires no restrictions other than class levels and two feats, and only involves one book besides the Player's Handbook and Monster Manual; which is Lords of Madness: The Book of Aberrations.

STEP ONE: Become a fifth level druid. For your third level feat, take Aberration Blood. At fifth level, take a flaw, then take the aberration wild shape feat. If you do not want to use a flaw, you could just get the feat at sixth level.

STEP TWO: Wild shape into a Phasm. Do you not know what Phasms are? They are the monsters in the Monster Manual directly below Phase Spiders that no one looks twice at. That is their fatal mistake.

STEP THREE: You can now, at will, turn into any creature of large size or smaller at will for the next few hours. Just looking through the Monster Manual should give you an idea of your power, and I'm not even mentioning other books.

That's it. This arguably has more power than Pun-Pun given the right treatment, and you just need to be a fifth level druid with two feats. There is a lesson here, though. If you have Lords of Madness and have not come up with this idea already, you need to learn it:

YOU DO NOT KNOW AS MUCH ABOUT THE MONSTER MANUAL AS YOU THINK YOU DO.

By the way, please don't play this. It will make your DM cry.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Given that phasm has 15 HD and

The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level.
there is a problem already.

Also nothing about Wildshape or Aberrant Wildshape gives you the supernatural abilities of the thing you transformed into, so that won't work either.
Finally, you cannot take flaws after character creation (someone can correct me if I am wrong on this).

[Fax Celestis]

Given that phasm has 15 HD and

there is a problem already.

Also nothing about Wildshape or Aberrant Wildshape gives you the supernatural abilities of the thing you transformed into, so that won't work either.
Finally, you cannot take flaws after character creation (someone can correct me if I am wrong on this).

However, Exalted Wildshape would let you. So a 15th level druid can wildshape into a celestial phasm, and then alternate form into, say...a hetaconcheires.

[ZamielVanWeber]

However, Exalted Wildshape would let you. So a 15th level druid can wildshape into a celestial phasm, and then alternate form into, say...a hetaconcheires.

The phasm can only go up to large, so no insane physical stat buffs* for you. Nifty trick otherwise.

*from being huge or larger

[Kevingway]

Also nothing about Wildshape or Aberrant Wildshape gives you the supernatural abilities of the thing you transformed into, so that won't work either.

Be a psionic race such as Duergar that has a PSA with a scaling manifester level, then take Metamorphic Transfer. Done.

[ZamielVanWeber]

There is still that pesky HD limit you need to reach and, honestly, being able to transform into any large or smaller creature on a spell at when 8th level spells are on the table is hardly extreme compared to what I've seen people on this board propose.

[Kevingway]

Right, and I imagine it was just a simple mistake that can be made when you think you've discovered something new and awesome. Just wanted to point out that there are easy ways of gaining the benefits of an assumed form.

[Crake]

However, Exalted Wildshape would let you. So a 15th level druid can wildshape into a celestial phasm, and then alternate form into, say...a hetaconcheires.

Exalted wildshape only lets you turn into celestial *animals* so no, you could not turn into a celestial phasm.

[Inevitability]

How about using Divine Minion to gain wildshape as an 11th-level druid? Then just add a Wildshape Amulet (infinite wealth tricks help a lot).

The Second-Level Titan. :smallcool:

[Feint's End]

Be a psionic race such as Duergar that has a PSA with a scaling manifester level, then take Metamorphic Transfer. Done.

You don't actually have a manifester level though so this doesn't work.

[nedz]

How about using Divine Minion to gain wildshape as an 11th-level druid? Then just add a Wildshape Amulet (infinite wealth tricks help a lot).

The Second-Level Titan. :smallcool:

Well why not:

Pursue infinite wealth trick
Pay high level Wizard to cast PAO on you
1st level Titan

?

[skypse]

(infinite wealth tricks help a lot)




Pursue infinite wealth trick


Huh?????????? What is this and how does this work? :D

[georgie_leech]

Huh?????????? What is this and how does this work? :D

Pick one. My favourite is splitting a ladder into two 10-foot poles and selling them to buy more ladders.

[lord_khaine]

Pick one. My favourite is splitting a ladder into two 10-foot poles and selling them to buy more ladders.

That wont get you 2 10-foot poles, it will just get you a broken ladder.

[georgie_leech]

That wont get you 2 10-foot poles, it will just get you a broken ladder.

I didn't say it was a good trick. :smalltongue:

[skypse]

I didn't say it was a good trick. :smalltongue:

lol'd... No I mean seriously is there anything like that, that it is actually VIABLE and working? :D

[Inevitability]

lol'd... No I mean seriously is there anything like that, that it is actually VIABLE and working? :D

Wall of salt. The DMG lists salt as being worth 5 gold per pound. Both Wall of Salt and Flesh to Salt produce it for you.

The Mercantile Background feat gives you 300 GP at 1st-level, enough to have someone cast WoS for you. Sell the salt and buy a wand of Wall of Salt with the money. Use the wand (or just pay people again) and enjoy your infinite wealth.

Heck, you could even pay in shops by using your salt.


Well why not:

Pursue infinite wealth trick
Pay high level Wizard to cast PAO on you
1st level Titan

?

Mostly because Dispel Magic. Being stuck in the wilderness and seeing your primary combat option just got removed by Bob the lucky 5th-level wizard is not fun.

That, and finding someone who can cast PaO may be hard depending on campaign setting.

[Phelix-Mu]

All those Int 6 sorcerers that sell castings of wall of salt. Hehe. Yeah...no. No one is that stupid.

"Three silver for one gold? Sure I will, because three is so much more than one."

lol, now all I can think of is "Which way did he go, George, which way did he go?"

[Inevitability]

All those Int 6 sorcerers that sell castings of wall of salt. Hehe. Yeah...no. No one is that stupid.

"Three silver for one gold? Sure I will, because three is so much more than one.""

Well then, another infinite money trick:

Be a spellcaster and buy a spell component pouch. You are now assumed to have, 'all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t fit in a pouch'.

Look up the spell 'Planar Bubble'. It requires silver dust as a material component, but has no listed price. Draw out the dust and give it to a party member. Rinse, repeat. Then melt the dust into bars and sell them.

Or you could just make a Fiendish Pact for a 9th-level spellslot, take Arcane Disciple (luck) and enjoy your free miracle (which can be used for a Wall of Salt) each day.

[Kevingway]

You don't actually have a manifester level though so this doesn't work.


Creatures that use psi-like abilities can qualify for feats or prestige classes requiring a minimum manifester level, provided they meet it. For example, Craft Universal Item has a requirement of manifester level 3rd.

Mm, yes you do.

[Feint's End]

Mm, yes you do.

I stand corrected.

I don't particularly like some of the stuff they did in CP including this rule (it seems like it opens up a whole can of cheese) but at least it is worded well.

Nice find!

[eggynack]

As has been noted, this plan has a lot of problems. You need to be something like 10th level, to reach the HD limit with the aid of items, and far more problematic, you need to have assume supernatural ability to make use of alternate form. At a smaller level of investment, due to the lack of item requirements, you could just make use of beholder eye rays in one form or another to toss out a pile of spells every round.

That takes this to the next point, which is that alternate form is emphatically not pun-pun. Just as is the case with wild shape (In fact, exactly as is the case with wild shape. They're the same ability with different type ranges.), you can only acquire certain abilities of the creature you're becoming. There's actually less equivalence between what the two grant than is the case for this and wild shape, but you should think of this alternate form less as always on shapechange, and more as always on polymorph with marginally fewer type limits. The same is true of wild shape, as I've noted in the first paragraph.

For future reference, this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm) is what alternate form gives you. No more, and no less, unless explicitly stated otherwise. It wasn't explicitly stated otherwise here, and neither was it stated otherwise in wild shape, so that's your stack of changes, and it's good but not this good. Also, pretty sure you can only take flaws at first level. That wouldn't push your build back otherwise, because you can just take aberration wild shape at 9th and have that before you could possibly get phasm form, but you also need assume supernatural ability, which pushes things to 12th. Basically, you're spending three feats for at-will polymorph at 12th level. Nice, but not pun-pun by any means, especially as you're working with well known cheese sources.

[Kevingway]

I stand corrected.

I don't particularly like some of the stuff they did in CP including this rule (it seems like it opens up a whole can of cheese) but at least it is worded well.

Nice find!

It's something I only recently found, and it took a whole lot of book searching to do so. Yeah, CP isn't a great book, but I sure do love the options I have for picking Psionic races now. Combine that with a template or class that has any sort of nonleveled supernatural ability and suddenly you have a caster level and a manifesting level equal to your HD. All the prerequisites.

[Feint's End]

It's something I only recently found, and it took a whole lot of book searching to do so. Yeah, CP isn't a great book, but I sure do love the options I have for picking Psionic races now. Combine that with a template or class that has any sort of nonleveled supernatural ability and suddenly you have a caster level and a manifesting level equal to your HD. All the prerequisites.

The way I see it you don't actually have a manifester level (which would grant you power points). You only qualify for those feats as if you have one but you don't actually have one. Minor difference but important nonetheless.

I agree that beneath all the borked stuff CP has some nice stuff though. I for one like synchronicity since it actually is a fairly well balanced power (unless you start cheesing with linked power but that's more the latter's fault).

[Kevingway]

Right; you're able to qualify for feats and prestige classes, but your manifester level only really does anything for your PSAs. That's all we really need though. ;) That whole section in the book is nice

[nedz]

Mostly because Dispel Magic. Being stuck in the wilderness and seeing your primary combat option just got removed by Bob the lucky 5th-level wizard is not fun.

That, and finding someone who can cast PaO may be hard depending on campaign setting.

OK so there are technical problems with my suggestion, but that doesn't alter my central point that if you are relying on breaking WBL for your game breaking build, then you can probably do that at first level.

[Sartharina]

Phasms can't turn into Titans anyway... Titans are Huge creatures, while Phasms cap at Large.