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Kevingway
2014-10-31, 05:33 PM
My head hurts. Thanks to Darrin in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?380996-Dwarf-Tempest-Flavor), I've learned that you can use a full attack to qualify for "the attack action," which is used when a character initiates a Spring Attack.

Gaining a full attack and moving is easy enough: I'd like to take the Sudden Leap maneuver and apply it as my form of movement, allowing me to effectively move as a swift action and take a full-round action after, with which I'd be full attacking. Spring Attack lets us move before and after taking an attack action, so I'm assuming that I could Sudden Leap and make the attacks I'm allowed from my BAB and Two-Weapon Fighting feats during this movement.

Here's where it gets complicated:


When a 5th-level tempest makes a spring attack, she can attack once each with two different weapons as an attack action.

Great. So let's say I'm able to take a full attack while moving, instead of the usual single attack that you'd be allowed through Spring Attack. How the heck many attacks am I allowed to make when combining the Tempest ability, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, and a full attack during movement with Spring Attack? Let's assume I have a BAB of 12 and there are four targets that I can potentially move through for the purpose of Spring Attack.

I'm unable to figure out if this is a way to cheese many more attacks than you'd usually be allowed with Improved/Reg. Two-Weapon Fighting, or if there's a much simpler interaction that I'm overthinking. Most likely the latter.

Also, I'm unsure if "the attack action" is fully covered when using a "full attack"; it seems as if the word "the" would explicitly mean that Spring Attack can only be used with the sort of attack that would only be granted by taking a standard action. I just like to be absolutely sure that I'm not too nitpicky, and I hate to fall back on the simple "let the DM decide" argument.

ZamielVanWeber
2014-10-31, 05:55 PM
The tempest ability won't interact with the full attack option. What it does is give you a 2nd option normally: instead of go forward, hit, pull back you can go forward, hit twice, or go back. By using Sudden Leap you can move, full attack, and move back. The full attack will get its normal bonuses and penalties for having two weapons, but no extras for being a tempest.

Kevingway
2014-10-31, 06:01 PM
The tempest ability won't interact with the full attack option. What it does is give you a 2nd option normally: instead of go forward, hit, pull back you can go forward, hit twice, or go back. By using Sudden Leap you can move, full attack, and move back. The full attack will get its normal bonuses and penalties for having two weapons, but no extras for being a tempest.

I'm curious why that is, though. If a full attack successfully interacts with the "the attack action" wording, why wouldn't the Tempest ability in conjunction with that, being that they're stemming from the same base?

Darrin
2014-10-31, 07:56 PM
I'm curious why that is, though. If a full attack successfully interacts with the "the attack action" wording, why wouldn't the Tempest ability in conjunction with that, being that they're stemming from the same base?

They aren't from the same base. All full-round attacks are attack actions, but not all attack actions are full-round attacks. The default assumption with Spring Attack is you have to start your turn with a Move action, which only leaves you with a Standard action remaining to attack. The rules quirk to Spring Attack + hustle is this leaves you with a full-round action available, and since a full attack counts as an attack action, you can combine this with the Spring Attack feat.

Two-Weapon Spring Attack doesn't mention anything about the action type required, so we can conclude that the new type of attack action the ability provides is a standard action, because that's all that's normally available when you activate Spring Attack.

Even if you did use hustle + Two-Weapon Spring Attack, which leaves you with a full-round action available, the text of the ability would prevent you from getting more than one attack per weapon: "she can attack once each with two different weapons as an attack action".