Tome of Battle Crash Course

[AkazilliaDeNaro]

So, I keep hearing about this thing called The Tome of Battle, and how it would really be useful for me to familiarize myself with it.
Now I actually have the book, but I lack the time, patience, and attention span to read it.
With that said I was hoping someone could give me a crash course on it or point me in the direction of one.
Thanks in advance.

[Red Fel]

This is Tome of Battle for Dummies (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1146801). It covers the big mechanics. The short version: IL: Initiator Level (IL) is composed of your initiator (ToB base class) level, plus one-half of your non-initiator levels. For example, a Warblade 5/ Fighter 4 has an IL of 7 (5 from Warblade, 4/2 = 2 from Fighter, total 7). Base classes: Crusader: This is the closest thing 3.5 has to tanking. It wins arguments with the Knight. You can soak and deal tons of damage, and have the best combat healing (even better than a Cleric). Swordsage: The Monk/Rogue of ToB. You have the largest library of maneuvers available to you, but you basically have to take the Adaptive Style feat to be able to refresh them efficiently in combat. Warblade: The Fighter Done Right. Int-to-lots, great techniques, and access to feats like Stormguard Warrior. PrCs: Look them up. Short version, they advance maneuvers, but not in the "+1 to existing spellcasting level" way; rather, they have a very specific advancement method (maneuvers known at this level, stances at this one). Make special note of Bloodstorm Blade, Eternal Blade, Jade Phoenix Mage, and Ruby Knight Vindicator. Maneuvers: Come in four types. Strikes: Generally a standard action. Do the thing. Boosts: Generally a swift action. Adds something to your attack. Counters: Generally an immediate action. Do the thing in reaction to someone else, generally on their turn, not yours. Stances: Not an action, but can be switched as a swift action. Give you a lasting buff. Errata: Nonexistent. It goes on for about a half a page, then turns into something else.
Any questions?

[AkazilliaDeNaro]

This is Tome of Battle for Dummies (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1146801). It covers the big mechanics. The short version:

IL: Initiator Level (IL) is composed of your initiator (ToB base class) level, plus one-half of your non-initiator levels. For example, a Warblade 5/ Fighter 4 has an IL of 7 (5 from Warblade, 4/2 = 2 from Fighter, total 7).
Base classes:

Crusader: This is the closest thing 3.5 has to tanking. It wins arguments with the Knight. You can soak and deal tons of damage, and have the best combat healing (even better than a Cleric).
Swordsage: The Monk/Rogue of ToB. You have the largest library of maneuvers available to you, but you basically have to take the Adaptive Style feat to be able to refresh them efficiently in combat.
Warblade: The Fighter Done Right. Int-to-lots, great techniques, and access to feats like Stormguard Warrior.


PrCs: Look them up. Short version, they advance maneuvers, but not in the "+1 to existing spellcasting level" way; rather, they have a very specific advancement method (maneuvers known at this level, stances at this one). Make special note of Bloodstorm Blade, Eternal Blade, Jade Phoenix Mage, and Ruby Knight Vindicator.
Maneuvers: Come in four types.

Strikes: Generally a standard action. Do the thing.
Boosts: Generally a swift action. Adds something to your attack.
Counters: Generally an immediate action. Do the thing in reaction to someone else, generally on their turn, not yours.
Stances: Not an action, but can be switched as a swift action. Give you a lasting buff.


Errata: Nonexistent. It goes on for about a half a page, then turns into something else.

Any questions?
Thanks, now to read through that.

[AvatarVecna]

As usual, Red Fel knows what they're talking about. The only thing I'll add is that maneuvers are like feats and spells combined: that is, in order to know and use a maneuver, you must meet any prereqs it has. Generally speaking the higher level maneuvers have stricter requirements, although this isn't always the case (IIRC, there's a lvl 9 maneuver that has no prereqs).

[Rubik]

As usual, Red Fel knows what they're talking about.Is Fel crowdsourcing now?

[georgie_leech]

Is Fel crowdsourcing now?

"They" is sometimes used as a gender neutral pronoun, especially in writing. It's become more common recently.

[AvatarVecna]

Is Fel crowdsourcing now?

EDIT: I misunderstood. And yeah, if people don't have a listed gender (such as Red Fel), I usually refer to them as "they" or some variation of that. I figure it's better to say "they" than "it"; I'm sure you agree that comes off as...insulting.

[Darrin]

Errata: Nonexistent. It goes on for about a half a page, then turns into something else.

The Tome of Battle Unofficial Errata Project (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=jmnbr07a2rimi8cr5dhjvqkad3&topic=335.0) is a reasonable facsimile.

[The Vagabond]

"They" is sometimes used as a gender neutral pronoun, especially in writing. It's become more common recently.
EDIT: I misunderstood. And yeah, if people don't have a listed gender (such as Red Fel), I usually refer to them as "they" or some variation of that. I figure it's better to say "they" than "it"; I'm sure you agree that comes off as...insulting.
Personally, I always use Xe or Xir or somewhat, swapping out gendered suffixes for X.

[sonofzeal]

I have a nasty habit of defaulting to "he", but I'm fond of "they". Or "one".

"If one wants to learn more about ToB, one should try a sample combat involving a ToB character."



The big thing to know, IMO, is that ToB characters tend to have really effective single melee attacks, but very little support for full attacks. A Warblade and a Fighter or Barbarian standing adjacent and slugging back and forth are actually fairly balanced (depending on the level), but the Warblade wins hands-down pre-6 when full attacks aren't a thing, and in mobile fights where move actions are actually useful.

They also have a much higher "optimization floor" - a poorly-made Warblade is still quite solid compared to a well-made one. Not so for most PHB classes. The end result is that ToB is massive more powerful than traditional options at low levels for casual groups, but quite viable for more experienced groups or at higher levels.

[Red Fel]

Is Fel crowdsourcing now?

We are Fel. We are everywhere. RAI is futile.

And yeah, the fan-made errata is pretty decent. And as AvVec mentioned, there is one Stone Dragon maneuver with (no doubt erroneously) no prereqs apart from a high enough IL; the half-formed official errata does not fix this, so it's considered a pretty nice (and cheap) trick to pull.

One place where I will agree in part and disagree in part is SonofZeal's comment. The maneuver system is designed, in part, so that you have options other than simply "full attack... full attack... five foot step and full attack." As a result, however, many strikes take standard actions, which keeps you from using your full attack.

But that's also not entirely true. You can use a boost (swift action) alongside your full attack. And when it comes to full attacks, a Warblade using Stormguard Warrior and a source of numerous attacks (such as a Totemist's arsenal of natural weapons) can absolutely decimate with full attacks. Similarly, a Warblade/ Eternal Blade with the Island in Time class feature and the Time Stands Still maneuver can unleash an onslaught of multiple full attacks and completely skewer an opponent.

So, yes. ToB does decrease the frequency with which you might see full attacks, but I wouldn't say they're completely out of the picture.

[Extra Anchovies]

Strikes: Generally a standard action. Do the thing.

This made me smile. Thank you :smallsmile:

Also, that's one of the best ToB capsule descriptions I've read. Good job!

[sonofzeal]

[COLOR="#0000FF"]One place where I will agree in part and disagree in part is SonofZeal's comment. The maneuver system is designed, in part, so that you have options other than simply "full attack... full attack... five foot step and full attack." As a result, however, many strikes take standard actions, which keeps you from using your full attack.

But that's also not entirely true. You can use a boost (swift action) alongside your full attack. And when it comes to full attacks, a Warblade using Stormguard Warrior and a source of numerous attacks (such as a Totemist's arsenal of natural weapons) can absolutely decimate with full attacks. Similarly, a Warblade/ Eternal Blade with the Island in Time class feature and the Time Stands Still maneuver can unleash an onslaught of multiple full attacks and completely skewer an opponent.

So, yes. ToB does decrease the frequency with which you might see full attacks, but I wouldn't say they're completely out of the picture.

I worded it the way I did on purpose. "Very little support for" doesn't mean they're any less useful than they were before, and there is a little support (mostly from Desert Wind and Tiger Claw). But there isn't much, and it's been quite heavily de-prioritized for most ToB characters. And the fact that full attacks often don't exist before level 6 is relevant to comparisons with non-ToB classes.

[Jeff the Green]

One thing that I don't think has been noted is that you don't necessarily have one initiator level; you may have up to three. Each class has their IL calculated separately and only adds half the other classes' levels to it, so a Crusader 4/Swordsage 2/Warblade 1 has a Crusader IL of 5 (4 + 3/2), a Swordsage IL of 4 (2+5/2), and a Warblade IL of 4 (1+6/2). I'm not entirely sure if the prestige classes only add to one or all three.

[CommandTortoise]

One thing that I don't think has been noted is that you don't necessarily have one initiator level; you may have up to three. Each class has their IL calculated separately and only adds half the other classes' levels to it, so a Crusader 4/Swordsage 2/Warblade 1 has a Crusader IL of 5 (4 + 3/2), a Swordsage IL of 4 (2+5/2), and a Warblade IL of 4 (1+6/2). I'm not entirely sure if the prestige classes only add to one or all three.

The RAW have you calculating IL for each class as [levels in relevant Initiating class + levels in Maneuver-advancing prestige class + 1/2 * levels in everything else] so it would seem that each level adds one to all ILs instead of a half.

I have no idea how it works with classes like Legacy Champion that advance other classes' features though.

[sonofzeal]

The RAW have you calculating IL for each class as [levels in relevant Initiating class + levels in Maneuver-advancing prestige class + 1/2 * levels in everything else] so it would seem that each level adds one to all ILs instead of a half.

I have no idea how it works with classes like Legacy Champion that advance other classes' features though.

+1.5 IL of each type per Legacy Champion level, I suppose.




Back on point on the ToB Crash Course, everything's organized into disciplines:

Desert Wind: Fire damage, some good things for moving around, and some things that add fire damage to each attack making it good for full attacks too. One of only two "supernatural" schools.

Devoted Spirit: Think "Paladin". Some of the best "tank" abilities in the game, including penalizing enemies for not attacking you, ways to prevent them moving past you, ways to survive huge damage, and ways to hit an enemy to heal an ally.

Diamond Mind: Fencing. Can add Concentration checks to saves and damage. Can turn melee attacks into touch attacks. Can make extra attacks in a round.

Iron Heart: FIGHTAR! Hit hard, shrug off nasty effects.

Setting Sun: Judo. A lot of throws, and a LOT of counters. Works well on interesting battlefields with mixed terrain types.

Shadow Hand: Ninja. Sneak Attack, brief invisibility, short range teleportation, some debuff effects as well. The other "supernatural" school.

Stone Dragon: Dwarf. Tough, immobile, hit hard, bypass hardness/DR, gain DR for yourself.

Tiger Claw: Dual-weilding barbarian. Move fast, leap over enemy's heads, tear at them with extra attacks, sacrifice defence for extra offence.

White Raven: War-Leader. Aid allies, give them extra actions, make charge attacks for extra effect.