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View Full Version : A Twist in the Mist - putting an M. Night Shayamalan spin on Ravenloft



Velaryon
2014-11-02, 09:46 PM
Today I had an idea about Ravenloft that I'd like to explore, perhaps even turn into a campaign down the line. I haven't set a game in the Land of Mists for many years, for reasons I'll explain in a spoiler box since they're only sort of related to the topic at hand.

Actually, there are several reasons why I haven't run a game in Ravenloft in nearly 10 years.

First, I'm a 3.X/3.P player, which means that when I do Ravenloft, I do it with the licensed but not official 3e Ravenloft line published by Arthaus under the Sword & Sorcery label. They were pretty good books, although designed for a different and much lower-op playstyle than seems to be typical of folks in this community. Most of my knowledge of the setting comes from these books, but since they never had opportunity to explore the more obscure and lesser-known parts of the setting, such as many lands detailed only once in 2e products, I have gone looking for infomation in older editions on occasion.

More importantly than that, though, I find fantasy-horror a difficult balance to strike. Dip too far toward fantasy and you essentially end up with standard D&D, just using more undead. Focus too much on horror and not only does it feel like rehashing classic Gothic horror literature, but D&D becomes a poor fit for the game.

I've found that a horror atmosphere works best when the unknown is a big part of the game. Unfortunately, because I've played with many of the same players for nearly 15 years and several of us have run Ravenloft (sometimes poorly) in the past, everyone in my circle knows all the major details of the setting - Strahd is a vampire, Azalin is a lich, and they hate each other. Drakov is a human whose army can't successfully defeat anyone. Don't use magic openly in Nova Vaasa or Tepest or you'll have to fight off mobs wielding pitchforks and torches, etc. Once the players know everything about the setting, I just can't scare them anymore. They either have to pretend to be scared (which runs counter to how they usually play D&D characters), or I have to use the Fear, Horror, and Madness save rules that I absolutely hate. It's just more fun when the players really don't know what's coming. And that's the point of this thread, to which we now return...

So the idea I had today revolves around a fairly obscure character named Lemot Sediam Juste. For those unfamiliar with him, he's a playwright who is cursed because he burned a theater to the ground when an audience laughed at one of his plays that was supposed to be a tragedy. He now controls a theater called Scaena that can appear inside other lands. Within that theater, his powers of illusion are unmatched, and he can put people through whatever stories he can dream up. He can meld into any wooden surface in the theater and emerge elsewhere, or he can burn the entire place down (remaining untouched by the flames) and then reform it. In other words, within his theater he's extremely dangerous.

What I want to do is use Mr. Juste to tell stories of other places and characters from this setting, with an M. Night Shyamalan-style twist. For example, he might put a party of adventurers through the scenario of 3e's Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, only for the party to discover at the end that Strahd is not evil, in fact not a vampire at all, and that the Vistani fortune teller who sends them on the quest is actually the real vampire.

And now I come to the true purpose of this topic: I want to ask anyone with some familiarity with this setting, how else could you pull a Shyamalan-style "what a tweest!" plot reveal by twisting around the canon characters, settings, or other features of this setting? I realize that this has potential for humor and I'm okay with that, but I'm also looking for ideas that I might actually be able to turn into a somewhat serious adventure too. :-)

The Glyphstone
2014-11-02, 09:55 PM
Howbout a modified version of Adam's Wrath - the 'tweeeest' being that Eva Mordenheim is the true mastermind, working behind the scenes after faking her death (framing Adam) to manipulate the father who neglected her and the monster he lavished his attention/obsessions on instead into destroying each other.

Red Fel
2014-11-02, 09:58 PM
The party is ensnared by Juste, but manages to escape. (Or so they think.) However, his curses seem to keep following them. They find themselves in Faerun, and seek out the aid of Elminster, who was recently spotted walking the land once again. Elminster is aloof, and cryptic, and encourages the PCs to find their own way (a la the Wizard of Oz).

Elminster was never the great archwizard everyone believed him to be. Even he believes himself to be one, but it is untrue. The entire thing was an elaborate hoax by Mystra, who was in fact an alias of Mask all along. Mask, as Mystra, made Elminster believe that he was a great and powerful wizard through divine fiat. Through Elminster and others like him, Mask made the arcane spellcasters of the world believe that they actually had arcane power, when in fact they were simply evoking divine effects (provided by other deities in on the joke).
Elminster was never the great archwizard everyone believed him to be. Even he believes himself to be one, but it is untrue. In fact, the magical mastermind was none other than the Lion Sword, the broken blade Elminster carried with him from the beginning. The Lion Sword, an intelligent weapon, was what drew the attention of Mystra, who put Elminster through magical training not because Elminster had potential, but because it was the only way that he would carry the Lion Sword into the world and enable it to work wonders.
Eventually, the truth is revealed, and you play out your ending a la The Wizard of Oz, with the party discovering that they had never left Scaena.

Honest Tiefling
2014-11-02, 10:04 PM
If they do figure it out, can Juste just keep subjecting them to things? Just a question.

They find themselves at home, with all of their loved ones. They are eager to hear stories of adventure, and welcome them back. In the middle of the night, they form a mob for some reason, insisting the party is are fault, or are doppelgangers. One of the people might even have been killed. This mob is relentless and is willing to be killed in their pursuit of the party--Even in horrific ways. Have fun killing your loved ones! If they figure it out, keep tossing their loved ones in completely inappropriate situations. Or hint that occasionally...One of the actors is either a real person, or their loved one dragged into this. Or threaten them that if they leave, Juste will find their loved ones and put them into this situation.

Heck, have Juste start picking up other people, who are forced to play out these roles. Have fun figuring out who you can and cannot kill!

Velaryon
2014-11-02, 10:14 PM
Howbout a modified version of Adam's Wrath - the 'tweeeest' being that Eva Mordenheim is the true mastermind, working behind the scenes after faking her death (framing Adam) to manipulate the father who neglected her and the monster he lavished his attention/obsessions on instead into destroying each other.

I'm not too familiar with Adam's Wrath, but I know the characters and this sounds like exactly the kind of idea I'm looking for. Thanks!

Got any more? :smallsmile:


The party is ensnared by Juste, but manages to escape. (Or so they think.) However, his curses seem to keep following them. They find themselves in Faerun, and seek out the aid of Elminster, who was recently spotted walking the land once again. Elminster is aloof, and cryptic, and encourages the PCs to find their own way (a la the Wizard of Oz).

Elminster was never the great archwizard everyone believed him to be. Even he believes himself to be one, but it is untrue. The entire thing was an elaborate hoax by Mystra, who was in fact an alias of Mask all along. Mask, as Mystra, made Elminster believe that he was a great and powerful wizard through divine fiat. Through Elminster and others like him, Mask made the arcane spellcasters of the world believe that they actually had arcane power, when in fact they were simply evoking divine effects (provided by other deities in on the joke).
Elminster was never the great archwizard everyone believed him to be. Even he believes himself to be one, but it is untrue. In fact, the magical mastermind was none other than the Lion Sword, the broken blade Elminster carried with him from the beginning. The Lion Sword, an intelligent weapon, was what drew the attention of Mystra, who put Elminster through magical training not because Elminster had potential, but because it was the only way that he would carry the Lion Sword into the world and enable it to work wonders.
Eventually, the truth is revealed, and you play out your ending a la The Wizard of Oz, with the party discovering that they had never left Scaena.

Going to Faerun isn't quite what I had in mind, but this is just the sort of mind-screw that Juste is made for!


If they do figure it out, can Juste just keep subjecting them to things? Just a question.

They find themselves at home, with all of their loved ones. They are eager to hear stories of adventure, and welcome them back. In the middle of the night, they form a mob for some reason, insisting the party is are fault, or are doppelgangers. One of the people might even have been killed. This mob is relentless and is willing to be killed in their pursuit of the party--Even in horrific ways. Have fun killing your loved ones! If they figure it out, keep tossing their loved ones in completely inappropriate situations. Or hint that occasionally...One of the actors is either a real person, or their loved one dragged into this. Or threaten them that if they leave, Juste will find their loved ones and put them into this situation.

Heck, have Juste start picking up other people, who are forced to play out these roles. Have fun figuring out who you can and cannot kill!

I... actually don't know if Juste can still keep throwing scenarios at him once they figure out what he's doing. I haven't looked at his stat block in awhile, but I think at least in the AD&D supplements where he was originally detailed, he didn't actually have any class levels. He was just a dude whose illusion powers were entirely granted by the same curse that prevents him from leaving the theater. I'm also not sure if he could actually pull from the thoughts and memories of those within his theater in order to depict their loved ones, at least canonically. For that matter, I'm not even sure whether he can direct where the theater appears, or whether it just hops around randomly.

However, it would make for a better story if he does have the ability to draw from the memories of his "actors," so I'm sure there's a way to make it work. And even if he can't control where the theater goes, the PCs don't need to know that... :smallwink:

Honest Tiefling
2014-11-02, 10:18 PM
If after the illusions change they still have blood on their sword that never goes away, well...

I admit, I've never played Ravenloft, so I assumed things. I thought the idea of the place was to force the players into acting out scenario after scenario until they figured out how to leave.

The Glyphstone
2014-11-02, 11:08 PM
I'm not too familiar with Adam's Wrath, but I know the characters and this sounds like exactly the kind of idea I'm looking for. Thanks!

Got any more? :smallsmile:



Not off the top of my head, no. I'm just a big fan of Frankenstein and its various re-interpretations, so the story of Mordenheim and his Creature is one of the few parts of Ravenloft I'm familiar with.

Velaryon
2014-11-03, 03:15 AM
If after the illusions change they still have blood on their sword that never goes away, well...

I admit, I've never played Ravenloft, so I assumed things. I thought the idea of the place was to force the players into acting out scenario after scenario until they figured out how to leave.

Unfortunately I no longer have access to the book where Juste is detailed, so I am going off of memory. I think though that his illusion powers are derived from the same curse that keeps him confined to the theater, rather than him being a wizard or sorcerer or even a bard. I am fairly certain he was just a normal guy (probably an Expert by 3.X rules) who flipped his lid when the audience laughed off his tragic masterpiece. I can definitely see him pulling stunts where he makes them think they've escaped the theatre, only to create illusions of them leaving and still keeping them captive. Or for all I know, he might be crazy enough to think that they're just one more of his illusions, I'm not actually sure.


Not off the top of my head, no. I'm just a big fan of Frankenstein and its various re-interpretations, so the story of Mordenheim and his Creature is one of the few parts of Ravenloft I'm familiar with.

Ah, gotcha. Well if you come up with something suitable for the Ravenloft equivalents of Dracula, Van Helsing, Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, Bluebeard, the Headless Horseman, or pretty much any other Gothic horror or Grimm-style fairy tale character, please let me know. Also, if you're familiar at all with Dragonlance, Lord Soth spent some time in the Land of Mists as well so he counts too. For that matter, so did Vecna and Kas, though I prefer to forget about that.

Eldan
2014-11-03, 04:58 AM
Bluebeard, ey?

I don't know the Ravenloft version. But:

The noble tells his new wife never to open the room in his cellar. She does so anyway, releasing a demon that slays her, then sets up her corpse for her husband to find. This cycle has repeated many times, but the nobleman can't get rid of the demon.

Perhaps not twisty enough.
The standard would be that the nobleman's new wife wants to kill him and inherit his money, so she hires the PCs to kill him while he's travelling, using a made-up story about how he has killed all his many former wives.

Velaryon
2014-11-03, 10:35 AM
Bluebeard, ey?

I don't know the Ravenloft version. But:

The noble tells his new wife never to open the room in his cellar. She does so anyway, releasing a demon that slays her, then sets up her corpse for her husband to find. This cycle has repeated many times, but the nobleman can't get rid of the demon.

Perhaps not twisty enough.
The standard would be that the nobleman's new wife wants to kill him and inherit his money, so she hires the PCs to kill him while he's travelling, using a made-up story about how he has killed all his many former wives.

I would have to look into it, but I think the RL version is barely different at all. They didn't even change the name! So one or both of these twists should work pretty well, I think.

Eldan
2014-11-03, 10:39 AM
Oh, also look into this:

http://dresdencodak.com/2009/05/11/42-essential-3rd-act-twists/

Red Fel
2014-11-03, 10:54 AM
Going to Faerun isn't quite what I had in mind, but this is just the sort of mind-screw that Juste is made for!

Oh, but it isn't actually going to Faerun. And that's just the kind of suffering for which Ravenloft is famous, and a twist in and of itself.

Imagine, the PCs, ensnared within the theater, desperate for escape, but every door is locked, every window barred. Curtains burst into flame, rafters crash down where they were standing, and they have to keep running, have to escape. In a moment of panic, they stumble through an oddly-marked door, and find themselves... "Elsewhere." In Faerun.

But in reality, they never left the theater. They never left Ravenloft. It was all an illusion. All of it - the sun, the sky, the plants and rocks, the people, the monsters, Elminster, Mystra, all of it. A perfect illusion. And when it ends, and they realize where they are...

When Dorothy returned from Oz, there was a sad wistfulness, but also a warm comfort in finding herself back where she belonged. But knowing that they've returned to Ravenloft? That's when "There's no place like home" becomes "There's no place like Hell."

The final twist is that, in freeing themselves from the illusion, they have returned themselves to the most dismal and sorrowful corner of the multiverse. A Pyrrhic victory.

Metahuman1
2014-11-03, 12:53 PM
I'd start with more then half the major characters names being pronounced wrong the entire way through the game.

(Un)Inspired
2014-11-03, 01:35 PM
I think I've got one:

Strahd von Zarovich is a child psycologist who is currently in the middle of a marriage that is falling apart. He's trying to help the party, who are all children, who seem to be able to see dead people.

Strahd is actually a vampire the whole time!

Velaryon
2014-11-03, 05:56 PM
I also asked this question on the Fraternity of Shadows' Cafe de Nuit (http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9126&start=0) Ravenloft forum, and received some clarification regarding Juste's powers. Apparently he was a level 3 Illusionist in AD&D, and I was misremembering him as a level 0 character. That said, he would still probably be better as an Expert or low-level Bard. His abilities are indeed enhanced by his curse though, well beyond his actual spellcasting ability. And apparently he can read the thoughts and memories of anyone up on his stage, so pulling figures from his victims' past is indeed something he can do.


Oh, but it isn't actually going to Faerun. And that's just the kind of suffering for which Ravenloft is famous, and a twist in and of itself.

Imagine, the PCs, ensnared within the theater, desperate for escape, but every door is locked, every window barred. Curtains burst into flame, rafters crash down where they were standing, and they have to keep running, have to escape. In a moment of panic, they stumble through an oddly-marked door, and find themselves... "Elsewhere." In Faerun.

But in reality, they never left the theater. They never left Ravenloft. It was all an illusion. All of it - the sun, the sky, the plants and rocks, the people, the monsters, Elminster, Mystra, all of it. A perfect illusion. And when it ends, and they realize where they are...

When Dorothy returned from Oz, there was a sad wistfulness, but also a warm comfort in finding herself back where she belonged. But knowing that they've returned to Ravenloft? That's when "There's no place like home" becomes "There's no place like Hell."

The final twist is that, in freeing themselves from the illusion, they have returned themselves to the most dismal and sorrowful corner of the multiverse. A Pyrrhic victory.

I like that "There's no place like Hell" line. Gonna have to see if there's a place I can steal it. :smallwink:

However, I don't think Ravenloft should be seen as quite that bleak. It is ultimately a place where the bad guys are getting punished for their misdeeds - while they do have great power within their confines, the entire demiplane revolves around continually using these people's own dark desires as a means to continually torment them. Strahd always gets another chance at the woman he killed his own brother to possess, only to have her slip through his fingers every single time. Azalin is acutely aware of the boundaries of his prison, and though he can never give up trying to escape, his attempts are all doomed to failure. And so on. While the world is a pretty grim place for average folk to live, they do make lives there and aren't constantly being eaten by werewolves, flayed by demons, etc.


Oh, also look into this:

http://dresdencodak.com/2009/05/11/42-essential-3rd-act-twists/

Awesome link! The URL didn't look like it was related, but the chart is really handy and I can see that helping me twist a few stories.


I'd start with more then half the major characters names being pronounced wrong the entire way through the game.

You mean something like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxxSIX3fmmo&t=20s)? :smallsmile:


I think I've got one:

Strahd von Zarovich is a child psycologist who is currently in the middle of a marriage that is falling apart. He's trying to help the party, who are all children, who seem to be able to see dead people.

Strahd is actually a vampire the whole time!

I see what you did there. :smallwink:

Honest Tiefling
2014-11-03, 06:03 PM
Or, you can have the 'players' go through grisly act after grisly act, being unable to stop themselves. Let them learn that each act was performed by a single guy. Surprise! He's there. And you know each and every foul act he's committed. Juste threatens to let him go if you don't give him a dramatic death. And he's not letting the party go, so they'd have to track him down at a later date. Bonus points if they wander into Juste's theater looking for the guy in question.

Eldan
2014-11-04, 03:05 AM
I'd start with more then half the major characters names being pronounced wrong the entire way through the game.

Must be fun to hear people say "Zarovich" a lot.

Chambers
2014-11-08, 08:50 AM
The Player Characters are actually the Dark Lords! What a Twist!

chainer1216
2014-11-09, 12:39 AM
The Player Characters are actually the Dark Lords! What a Twist!

Not in some groups...

Honest Tiefling
2014-11-09, 10:41 AM
Not in some groups...

+1 here. If you do that twist, they need to be crappy Darklords without a lot of power and with a lot of drawbacks, which I think violates many of the themes of Ravenloft, through I could be wrong...

Kislath
2014-11-10, 06:29 PM
HA! I never heard of this guy, but I once rolled up a Dark Lord who I called "The Director."
He also ran a theater and put on plays, usually with gruesome scenes. His power was absolute control of everything and everyone within his theater realm, and could stop adventurers simply by yelling "cut!" Their actions would immediately stop, making he Director invincible.
His flaw was that during an actual performance, the "show must go on." As such, he completely lost his powers to control others, and could be killed.

Now, as for some crazy twists for Ravenloft... I dunno. The whole setting is pretty whacky already.
In my campaign, whenever someone got killed, they'd be transported into the very center of the Demiplane of Dread, where they would be able to view all of it at once and see the mighty artifact which created and controlled it all before being sent back again.
Being dead, they couldn't touch the artifact, but being alive, they couldn't reach it. Drove my players nuts.

Talakeal
2014-11-11, 12:32 AM
Bluebeard, ey?

I don't know the Ravenloft version. But:

The noble tells his new wife never to open the room in his cellar. She does so anyway, releasing a demon that slays her, then sets up her corpse for her husband to find. This cycle has repeated many times, but the nobleman can't get rid of the demon.


When you have a basement with the devil in it you dont say "Oh, this basement is a little dangerous, be careful," you say "Here is the basement and IT HAS THE DEVIL IN IT!"

Eldan
2014-11-11, 03:41 AM
Yeah, but that part of the story never made much sense anyway. "Here's the key. Never use it. But I'm giving it to you. And then I'm going away, so I can't check if you used it. But don't. There's my terrible secret in there that no one can ever know. So don't use this key I'm giving you."

Hyena
2014-11-11, 04:01 AM
Must be fun to hear people say "Zarovich" a lot.
What's so hard about pronouncing "Zarovich"?

Eldan
2014-11-11, 04:12 AM
Says the Russian :smalltongue: