Trapping Ghosts?

[Rubik]

I know about spells like Trap the Soul and Ghost Trap, but what if you want to permanently trap a ghost or other possessing presence inside of the body of the one it's possessing, to keep it from escaping, like, say, Kurama from Naruto? Preferably in control so one could interact with it?

[Oracle_of_Void]

I'm no expert in such matters, but perhaps mixing a ghost trap effect with a permanency effect?

[gooddragon1]

I know about spells like Trap the Soul and Ghost Trap, but what if you want to permanently trap a ghost or other possessing presence inside of the body of the one it's possessing, to keep it from escaping, like, say, Kurama from Naruto? Preferably in control so one could interact with it?

Well, it's not rules specifically for this, but:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/colossus.htm#fleshColossus

Flesh Colossus

A flesh colossus knows all languages spoken in life by the ghost who acts as its control-ling spirit. When the controlling spirit is suppressed, it mutters in all the tongues spoken by its component corpses.

Construction

..Finally, the necromancer must bind a ghost of at least 10 HD (the more powerful the better) into the colossus to act as its controlling spirit...

Maybe a scaled down version of this?

[Jeff the Green]

Does it need to be in a body? If not a Wu Jen 7/Nar Demonbinder 1 could do it. This is way TO, but if you boost your CL to the number of days until the heat death of the universe, create the Nar Demonbinder's iron sign, and then use lesser spirit binding (or its normal or greater brothers if necessary) to call the ghost, it's stuck there forever unless it has SR.

Or perhaps haunt shift it into a dead body and then PAO or raise it?

[Phelix-Mu]

Hmm. I'd look into some of those spirit shaman effects. I think they work on ghosts, but sadly that class got little support. Otherwise, I'd suggest optimizing some of their schtick with other rebuke/command stuff, but I don't think the RAW supports the two things being the same (if fact pretty sure it doesn't).

Would be a reasonable houserule, though, since all that spirit-manipulating stuff of spirit shaman otherwise hardly sees the light of day.

[Astralia123]

Command Undead is always an option.

[weckar]

This is way TO, TO? My apologies for being off-topic, but I've seen this thrown around a lot and have NO idea what it means...

[Milo v3]

TO? My apologies for being off-topic, but I've seen this thrown around a lot and have NO idea what it means...
It stands for Theoretical Optimisation.

[gooddragon1]

TO? My apologies for being off-topic, but I've seen this thrown around a lot and have NO idea what it means...

Theoretical Optimization is creating results from rules that are usually demonstrably legal but are not intended to see actual gameplay. The most straightforward thing that comes to mind is abusing the mulitpliers on damage from certain effects that are related to charging attacks. Using several sources a player can reasonably expect to hit for thousands of points of damage per attack before level 20 if they can charge the enemy.

Valorous Weapon Enhancement on a Lance (2x damage on a charge)
Spirited Charge (3x damage on a charge with a lance)
Power Attack (-Base Attack Bonus, +2x subtracted BAB in damage with a 2 handed weapon)
Shock Trooper (Modify power attack to subtract from armor class instead to retain a high chance to hit)
Strength score of 26, activate whirling frenzy rage variant for 30 and an extra attack.
Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian (Grants pounce ability which allows for full attack action on a charge instead of making just 1 attack)

At level 16 (very unoptimized stuff below)...
Two handing a lance grants +15 damage from strength.
Power Attacking with all 16 points of base attack bonus grants 32 points of extra damage.
Rolling a 2 on damage with a +1 from the +1 enhancement bonus on the weapon grants 3 points of damage.
50 damage
D&D math makes 3x and 2x become 4x instead of 6x.
200 damage per attack. 5 attacks yield 1000 damage assuming no critical hits and all attacks are successful.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Imprison possessor, sorc/wiz 5, book of vile darkness

[Rubik]

Imprison possessor, sorc/wiz 5, book of vile darknessOoh. That's exactly what I wanted. Like, without a single iota of difference. Thanks, non-seaweed Kelb!*

And thanks everyone else, too.

More options are good, though, if anyone has one.





*I ate some roasted seaweed earlier. Mucho delicioso. And good for me, too!

[Jeff the Green]

Theoretical Optimization is creating results from rules that are usually demonstrably legal but are not intended to see actual gameplay. The most straightforward thing that comes to mind is abusing the mulitpliers on damage from certain effects that are related to charging attacks. Using several sources a player can reasonably expect to hit for thousands of points of damage per attack before level 20 if they can charge the enemy.

Valorous Weapon Enhancement on a Lance (2x damage on a charge)
Spirited Charge (3x damage on a charge with a lance)
Power Attack (-Base Attack Bonus, +2x subtracted BAB in damage with a 2 handed weapon)
Shock Trooper (Modify power attack to subtract from armor class instead to retain a high chance to hit)
Strength score of 26, activate whirling frenzy rage variant for 30 and an extra attack.
Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian (Grants pounce ability which allows for full attack action on a charge instead of making just 1 attack)

At level 16 (very unoptimized stuff below)...
Two handing a lance grants +15 damage from strength.
Power Attacking with all 16 points of base attack bonus grants 32 points of extra damage.
Rolling a 2 on damage with a +1 from the +1 enhancement bonus on the weapon grants 3 points of damage.
50 damage
D&D math makes 3x and 2x become 4x instead of 6x.
200 damage per attack. 5 attacks yield 1000 damage assuming no critical hits and all attacks are successful.

Though really this isn't TO at higher-op tables. You can't even get Shock Trooper before level 6 (and it's a pain to get your Strength that high and get a valorous weapon at that level) and by then there's plenty that can stop charging cold. And at level 16 at even moderately high optimization levels that even doubling that damage is pretty laughable if it's the only trick. The lance is arguably metal (since they have metal tips) and so are defeated by a persisted ironguard (and if not DR/adamantine, cold iron, or silver is easy to come by). It's trivially easy to teleport away as a free action or to put up a barrier in the charger's face as an immediate. Etc.

A purer example of TO would be Pun-Pun, who has arbitrarily high to infinite scores in just about everything and conceivably could have the I Win (Ex) special ability, or the Omniscificer, who "only" has infinite skill bonuses.

[gooddragon1]

Though really this isn't TO at higher-op tables. You can't even get Shock Trooper before level 6 (and it's a pain to get your Strength that high and get a valorous weapon at that level) and by then there's plenty that can stop charging cold. And at level 16 at even moderately high optimization levels that even doubling that damage is pretty laughable if it's the only trick. The lance is arguably metal (since they have metal tips) and so are defeated by a persisted ironguard (and if not DR/adamantine, cold iron, or silver is easy to come by). It's trivially easy to teleport away as a free action or to put up a barrier in the charger's face as an immediate. Etc.

A purer example of TO would be Pun-Pun, who has arbitrarily high to infinite scores in just about everything and conceivably could have the I Win (Ex) special ability, or the Omniscificer, who "only" has infinite skill bonuses.

Orc +4 Strength, +4 strength over 16 levels. Starting 18+4+4=26. It's easy to get your strength that high. The reason it's TO is because nothing in the SRD has 1000 hit points pre-epic. It generally isn't meant for most groups. Some groups might allow it but not all of them. Pun-pun is the most TO, but I wanted a simple example I could spell out briefly.

[Jeff the Green]

Orc +4 Strength, +4 strength over 16 levels. Starting 18+4+4=26. It's easy to get your strength that high. The reason it's TO is because nothing in the SRD has 1000 hit points pre-epic. It generally isn't meant for most groups. Some groups might allow it but not all of them. Pun-pun is the most TO, but I wanted a simple example I could spell out briefly.

I said "at that level" i.e. 6, when you can get Shock Trooper, and yes it is a pain to get your Strength up that high that early.

And being able to kill anything in the SRD in one charge hardly makes a build TO, given that it's trivial to make a Wizard of that level that can kill or defeat anything in the SRD with one spell. Trivial in this case meaning "be a Wizard and have a few decent spells". Aside from the fact that it's also trivial to render charging impossible or irrelevant.

So yes, it's overpowered at most tables. At a number that isn't even remotely close to zero, though, it's fine or even laughably weak.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You've probably already noticed it, being immediately adjacent to imprison possessor, but impotent possessor is also quite useful for that sort of thing.

[ArqArturo]

Hmm. I'd look into some of those spirit shaman effects. I think they work on ghosts, but sadly that class got little support. Otherwise, I'd suggest optimizing some of their schtick with other rebuke/command stuff, but I don't think the RAW supports the two things being the same (if fact pretty sure it doesn't).

Would be a reasonable houserule, though, since all that spirit-manipulating stuff of spirit shaman otherwise hardly sees the light of day.

The good thing is that they have the full druid spell list.

[thethird]

You want the spells from secrets of sarlona.

Fleshbound is instantaneous and transmits the damage to the possessing spirit, while forcing it to make a save to escape.

Additionally there is:

Lifebound lasts for 1d6 rounds and the possessing spirit cannot leave, if the host is destroyed it dies. It also grants the host some of the spirit abilities (spell like, psi-like [manifesting is psi-like] and supernatural).

Kurama could use it to give power to Naruto for a short duration.