Classes (require assistance)

[Pinkcrusade]

Hello, all! I am new to 5e (but quite proficient in 3.5) and I had a few questions pertaining to classes in 5e? Would you guys be able to inform me about the damage capabilities of each class, pros and cons, etc..

Thanks a lot

[Easy_Lee]

Every single class? That's going to be a really long post, prone to derailment as people argue over a specific point. What specifically do you want to know?

[Ghost Nappa]

Hello, all! I am new to 5e (but quite proficient in 3.5) and I had a few questions pertaining to classes in 5e? Would you guys be able to inform me about the damage capabilities of each class, pros and cons, etc..

Thanks a lot


Every single class? That's going to be a really long post, prone to derailment as people argue over a specific point. What specifically do you want to know?

Are we talking highest average, most number of damage types capable, highest, tightest spread, highest minimum damage, most attacks/round...?


You have to be a lot more specific.

[Pinkcrusade]

Hmm, yes, sorry for the vagueness and relative broadness of the question:

I know little-to-nothing about the majority of the classes in 5e; I am just attempting to gauge their power and people's opinions on them in an easy way. I have heard good things about Warlock damage, but again, not enough to advocate for a certain build. I am a fan of burst damage, so perhaps the top few classes of each range category (melee, ranged, magic, whatever) and just a few bits of information about each class (there are only eight or so right now, if I recall correctly?)

Thanks, again, sorry for the lack of clarity.

[jaydubs]

Not sure about the rest, but someone already did a comparison for ranged damage.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?375185-Class-Comparisons-for-Ranged-Damage

[Shadow]

Hmm, yes, sorry for the vagueness and relative broadness of the question:

I know little-to-nothing about the majority of the classes in 5e; I am just attempting to gauge their power and people's opinions on them in an easy way. I have heard good things about Warlock damage, but again, not enough to advocate for a certain build. I am a fan of burst damage, so perhaps the top few classes of each range category (melee, ranged, magic, whatever) and just a few bits of information about each class (there are only eight or so right now, if I recall correctly?)

Thanks, again, sorry for the lack of clarity.

Honestly, the classes are all fairly well balanced this time around.
People seem to want to claim that this class or that class is OP, but the fact of the matter is that the field is pretty even. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.
The most versatile class deals the least damage. The most consistent damaging class has the least cool tricks. The ones that have great burst potential have to suffer through rounds of doing mediocre damage to compensate.
Gone are the days of wizard/god dominance where fighters suck after a couple of levels.
They did a great job balancing.
You've got barbarian, bard, cleric, druid, fighter, monk, paladin, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, warlock, wizard.
Just pick which class you feel like playing with any given concept. They're not only all viable, they're all effective as well.

[Rfkannen]

Welp here is some general information

Bards are really awesome now, they are full casters, and can grab other classes spells. THat means that they can grab spells meant for a 17th level paladin or ranger at level 10. This gives them the highest ranged bow damage for a couple levels. Overall generally good class. Two sub-classes, the first makes you a better caster. The second gives you an extra attack, armor, and weapons

Rangers are rangers. They do a fair amount of damage and stuff. They are half casters and get some pretty good spells to boost there damage. The only problem is that withought some weird stuff the beast master is pretty weak. The weird stuff is things such as, being small and useing it as a mount, casting awaken on it, ect.

Fighters are actualy pretty cool. They get the most attacks out of all the classes, as well as the most feats. This can create builds that are pretty powerful. They are also pretty hard to kill, getting a heal and an extra action. Subclass wise one is a third caster which can teleport their weapon and eventualy themself. One gets fancy manuevers to use. One hits things with a stick.

Rogues are skill monkeys

Druids are full casters, not codzilla level but still pretty powerful what with the wildshape and all, very good casters. There are two subclasses, one makes you a better spellcaster and the other gives you better shapeshifting. At level 20 the shapeshifting one pretty much can't be killed.

Wizards do what wizards always do, that being magic. SLightly less powerful, but you know. Magic

Clerics are pretty awesome as well. With a lot more versatility before, makeing everything from high dps laser clerics, to lighting shooting melle clerics, to full hearlers, to mini druids. Possible

Sorccerers to the magic, they make it more powerful that other classes but can do it less

Warlocks, ah warlocks. They get the eldrich blast cantrip, which is realy realy powerful, and can get invoctions to make it even more powerful. This gives the best sustained damage pretty much. Besides that they do a lot of damage. And either get the benifit to be profiecient with every damage and get an extra attack, the ability to cast every ritual in the game, or the ability to have a familiar that you are telepathic with.

I am blanking on the other classes at the moment.

[Shadow]

Warlocks, ah warlocks. They get the eldrich blast cantrip, which is realy realy powerful, and can get invoctions to make it even more powerful. This gives the best sustained damage pretty much

Warlocks do not have the best sustained damage.
Champion fighters (the ones that just hit things with a stick) have the best sustained damage.
The differences are [1] enhancement bonus from weapon to damage x4 (which warlocks don't get), [2] 300% higher crit range (18-20 instead of just 20), and [3] multiple fighting styles (of which warlocks get none).
The subclass that is consistently labeled as the most boring (and rightfully so) has the highest sustained damage in the game.
Like I said.... balanced.

Furthermore, all three fighters have equal or better sustained damage than warlocks.
Rogues have the highest *potential* sustained damge. But the lack of extra attack means that misses hurt their sustain a lot more than other classes, so the highest *potential* sustain actually suffers on the sustained front by comparison.
Like I said.... balanced.

[Madfellow]

Hello, all! I am new to 5e (but quite proficient in 3.5) and I had a few questions pertaining to classes in 5e? Would you guys be able to inform me about the damage capabilities of each class, pros and cons, etc..

I know little-to-nothing about the majority of the classes in 5e; I am just attempting to gauge their power and people's opinions on them in an easy way. I have heard good things about Warlock damage, but again, not enough to advocate for a certain build. I am a fan of burst damage, so perhaps the top few classes of each range category (melee, ranged, magic, whatever) and just a few bits of information about each class (there are only eight or so right now, if I recall correctly?)

Barbarian: Rages and wades into melee with a big stick that he hits people with. Gets bonuses to damage, resistance against taking damage, and a second attack. Solid, easy to use, and maintains basic proficiency even outside of combat.

Bard: Probably the most versatile class, but there's a debate to be had about it. Bards are full casters now, which means they eventually get access to 9th-level spells (which don't have quite the same game-breaking potential as in 3.5). They can't regain spells mid-day like the other arcane casters can, but they make up for it with basic combat proficiency. Their fighting potential doesn't even approach that of a Fighter, but the option is there as a backup.

Cleric: Basically anything that can be said about the bard can be said about the cleric. They get some nifty combat spells, but no two clerics are going to play exactly the same so it's hard to encapsulate the class in just a few words.

Druid: It's in the same "magic tier" as the bard and cleric; full caster, 9th level spells, basic combat proficiency, plus Wild Shape. Land Druid gets a spell recovery mechanic, Moon Druid gets better Wild Shapes, which can actually make it a really good tank.

Fighter: Gets the most attacks, the most stat boosts/feats, an extra action in combat, and self-healing. Champion Fighter is a simple beatstick/tank, Battlemaster Fighter gets nifty combat maneuvers, and Eldritch Knight gets magic.

Monk: The "Death of a Thousand Cuts" class. They get to dish out a ton of low-power attacks while flitting around the battlefield with high AC and decent hit points. They also get the classic monk magic (resistances to disease and psychic stuff, great saving throws, self-healing). Shadow Monk gets spiffy shadow magic, Four Elements Monk gets elemental magic.

Paladin: A half-caster, which means that they're like a Diet Fighter that gets spells. Good weapon and armor proficiencies, fighting styles, multiple attacks, and a bunch of spells that let them modify their attacks. Oh, and they can spend spell slots when they attack to deal extra damage. :smallbiggrin: Yeah, paladins are awesome this time around. The Oath isn't nearly as strict this time, though some people still have hangups about the Devotion Oath not allowing you to lie.

Ranger: Basically a hippy Paladin. :smalltongue: The biggest difference is that the paladin is best at taking down a single target, while the ranger deals basic damage to tons of targets.

Rogue: Classic rogue. Tons of good skills and a Sneak Attack. Also very nimble in combat. Not much else to say about it.

Sorcerer: Full caster with a reserve of extra magical energy that can be called on at any time to regain spell slots or apply Metamagic. The cost of this is their restricted number of spells known.

Warlock: Full caster that regains ALL spell slots after resting for only 1 hour. The downside is their limited number of spell slots and the level of those slots. They get decent armor and weapons, plus the best damage-dealing cantrip in the game (and cantrips don't cost spell slots anymore).

Wizard: Full caster that can regain a limited number of spell slots after resting for 1 hour. The Evoker Wizard has the best damage output (obviously). Any other school specialization will focus on something other than dealing damage, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Easy_Lee]

If you're concerned with tops of various damage categories:

Sorcerers likely have the highest spell burst damage due to full casting and metamagic. Their sustained damage is good if you take elemental mastery and the draconic ancestry line. You're basically forced to go fire and take elemental mastery at this point, since the spell list is lacking in other elements.
Assassin rogues have the highest physical burst damage if you allow for surprise rounds, bar none. Extremely specific barbarian or paladin multiclass builds with three levels of rogue to get assassin can literally do hundreds of damage on average for a surprise round. Depending on the build, you won't be as useful once combat has started (or out of it) as some options, but you'll always be able to contribute. Note that there's very little reason not to use a shortbow, crossbow, or hand crossbow with crossbow expert for assassin rogues.
Warlocks easily have the highest sustained spell damage. The eldritch blast invocations, along with it being force, ensure that the warlock is hitting hard and hitting consistently all day, no matter the opponent.
Champion fighters, as said, have the highest sustained physical damage. They can do good burst damage by action surging.
Wizards are your go-to class for utility. If you want to contribute to the party in ways other than direct damage, wizard is probably your go-to class. They get basically everything you can think of in the form of spells, so it's just up to you to pick an archetype for the kind you want to focus. Play evoker if you want to deal good spell damage (a bit behind sorcerers) while still having plenty of room for utility spells.

Hope that helps.

[numerek]

Warlocks do not have the best sustained damage.
Champion fighters (the ones that just hit things with a stick) have the best sustained damage.
The differences are [1] enhancement bonus from weapon to damage x4 (which warlocks don't get), [2] 300% higher crit range (18-20 instead of just 20), and [3] multiple fighting styles (of which warlocks get none).
The subclass that is consistently labeled as the most boring (and rightfully so) has the highest sustained damage in the game.
Like I said.... balanced.

Furthermore, all three fighters have equal or better sustained damage than warlocks.
Rogues have the highest *potential* sustained damge. But the lack of extra attack means that misses hurt their sustain a lot more than other classes, so the highest *potential* sustain actually suffers on the sustained front by comparison.
Like I said.... balanced.

A first off haste from eldritch knight totally beats champion fighter as long as you can maintain concentration unless of course you need a crit to hit which is pretty rare for 5e.

second you left off hex and foresight from warlock's abilities, hex is +3.5 damage and advantage almost double's crit range and also more than makes up for +3 to hit from a not guaranteed magical weapon. they can also bestow curse once a day. also they get 4th attack 3 levels earlier.

warlock 2-4 / sorcerer 16 - 18 - has plenty of sorcery points to double cast eldritch blast for around 50 turns, can also cast scorching ray as high level spells with hex and elemental affinity + eldritch blast.

but the winner goes to bard with find familiar, contagion, bestow curse(5th level slot), foresight, extra attack, swift quiver, battle magic, +half proficiency bonus on initiative. And that class in anything but boring.

[Likantropos]

but the winner goes to bard with find familiar, contagion, bestow curse(5th level slot), foresight, extra attack, swift quiver, battle magic, +half proficiency bonus on initiative. And that class in anything but boring.
I'm sorry, but how do all these things make a good damage dealer?

[numerek]

I'm sorry, but how do all these things make a good damage dealer?

have you not read their descriptions.

find familiar lets you cast touch spells(bestow curse, contagion) at range and provides advantage on one attack a turn, bestow curse gives disadvantage to a saving throw(constitution sets up contagion) and advantage on your attacks and spells and they deal an extra d8 damage when cast at 5th level spell slot doesn't require concentration, contagion flesh rot is vulnerability to all damage types, blinding sickness disadvantage to will saves sets up bestow curse and is blinded giving advantage to all attacks(including allies) also doesn't require concentration, foresight can't be surprised advantage on all saving throws, ability checks, attack rolls, extra attack + swift quiver gets the bard up to 4 attacks per round, battle magic allows you to use your bonus action to attack while casting those other spells. In the other post I left off sharpshooter
first turn blinding sickness + bow attack, second turn bestow curse + bow attack, third turn flesh rot + bow attack, fourth turn+ swift quiver 4 bow attacks
Spell casting turns: 3d8+30+2*(2d8+15)=91.5 total for the three turns
Feat Damage: 2*4*(2d8+15)=192 per turn
Damage averaged over 10 turns: 143.55 + all the extra damage everybody else in the party is doing.

if the familiar dies you can either try to deliver the touch attacks yourself or just swift quiver up and still do awesome damage, contagion will at least last 3 turns and the set is designed to give them disadvantage to their save checks, doesn't work against immune to disease. A little less effective against creatures that don't need sight. if the situation dictates that this won't work the bard still has plenty of spells to handle other situations. This may seem like it is burning thru 5+ level spells slots pretty fast but it can be adjusted to use fewer spell slots per combat and can still easily be competitive with other classes, like blinding sickness is mainly to help bestow curse stick as the advantage is redundant for the bard (though his allies could use it), and if the creature your fighting doesn't have a huge number of hitpoints 3 turns of flesh rot may be enough without any of the other spells, crusaders mantle would be good too if your party has plenty of weapon users and is only a 3rd level slot.

One other note instead of battle magic you could swift quiver plus extra attack first round then on rounds 2-4 cast the spells while getting 2 attacks with your bow, but you will be doing less total damage if all 3 spells stick, if however flesh rot doesn't stick then you are better off going this route.

Of course the process could be sped up if you had multiple people that could cast those spells but they would need to be a bard or multi classed to cast bestow curse or contagion and have 4 attacks per round, eldritch knight comes close with bestow curse but it only gets 4th level spell slots, I suppose it could use bestow curse as its concentration spell.

[Firechanter]

Barbarian: Rages and wades into melee with a big stick that he hits people with. Gets bonuses to damage, resistance against taking damage, and a second attack. Solid, easy to use, and maintains basic proficiency even outside of combat.

What's a bit weird to veteran gamers - and also may be a bit unintuitive for newcomers - is that the 5E Barbarian excels more as a Tank or Close-Support class rather than as Primary Damagedealer. Afaik all previous editions have made the Barbarian the Class That Rips Your Face Off, but in 5E they are best for eating enemy attacks or giving their buddies Advantage in melee. Of course they still do damage themselves but are far from the best in it.

The most dedicated "Glass Cannon" is the Rogue - we're used to that, and Sneak Attack is much more reliable now than in previous editions.

Rangers are the Martial Class With Area Effect.

Personally, I'm looking to play an Avenger Pala in our first game, but I'm a bit worried that he might be rather MAD (needing Str, Con and Cha) and feat-starved. Still, this class seems to have a good Nova and great to hunt down Bosses.

[Madfellow]

warlock 2-4 / sorcerer 16 - 18 - has plenty of sorcery points to double cast eldritch blast for around 50 turns, can also cast scorching ray as high level spells with hex and elemental affinity + eldritch blast.

The way Twinned Spell is worded, in order to use it on Eldritch Blast you would have to target EXACTLY two creatures, one with each casting of EB. It doubles your damage output, yes, but it severely limits the way that damage can be distributed.

[Madfellow]

What's a bit weird to veteran gamers - and also may be a bit unintuitive for newcomers - is that the 5E Barbarian excels more as a Tank or Close-Support class rather than as Primary Damagedealer. Afaik all previous editions have made the Barbarian the Class That Rips Your Face Off, but in 5E they are best for eating enemy attacks or giving their buddies Advantage in melee. Of course they still do damage themselves but are far from the best in it.

Personally, I'm looking to play an Avenger Pala in our first game, but I'm a bit worried that he might be rather MAD (needing Str, Con and Cha) and feat-starved. Still, this class seems to have a good Nova and great to hunt down Bosses.

Coming from 3.5 myself, I've always seen Barbarians as a tank first and a DPS guy second. But that's just me.

In my own humble opinion, I don't think MAD is really an issue in 5e. The ability score point buy system and racial stat bumps make it easy to get at least a +2 modifier in any ability score your build needs (which is never more than three abilities for any given build). The Proficiency progression and regular stat bumps make it easy to maintain competency with these as well.

[Person_Man]

You might want to check out my Grognard's Guide in my signature for a general overview.

[Easy_Lee]

The way Twinned Spell is worded, in order to use it on Eldritch Blast you would have to target EXACTLY two creatures, one with each casting of EB. It doubles your damage output, yes, but it severely limits the way that damage can be distributed.

That's why you quicken it. Quicken lets you cast a second spell that round as long as it's a cantrip.

[Giant2005]

but the winner goes to bard with find familiar, contagion, bestow curse(5th level slot), foresight, extra attack, swift quiver, battle magic, +half proficiency bonus on initiative. And that class in anything but boring.

Wiz 12, Sorc 6, Warlock 2 does that same combo better.
With Hex, Bestow Curse and Rotting Flesh all active, that class combination will inflict an average of 658 damage on their next turn with a quickened level 9 Scorching Ray followed by Eldritch Blast. That is the most damage that I am aware of that a single character could inflict in a single turn (Well obviously it would inflict more if each attack inflicted max damage and crit which would result in 1904 in a single turn but that is too improbable to consider).

[Madfellow]

That's why you quicken it. Quicken lets you cast a second spell that round as long as it's a cantrip.

Oh. :smalleek:

[Rezby]

Barbarian A fierce warrior of primitive background d12 who can enter a battle rage
Bard An inspiring magician whose power d8 echoes the music of creation
Cleric A priestly champion who wields divine d8 magic in service of a higher power
Druid A priest of the Old Faith, wielding the d8 powers of nature— moonlight and
plant growth, fire and lightning— and
adopting animal forms
Fighter A master of martial combat, skilled with d10
a variety o f weapons and armor
Monk An master of martial arts, harnessing d8
the power of the body in pursuit of
physical and spiritual perfection
Paladin A holy warrior bound to a sacred oath d10
Ranger A warrior who uses martial prowess and d10 nature magic to combat threats on the
edges of civilization
Rogue A scoundrel who uses stealth and d8
trickery to overcome obstacles and
enemies
Sorcerer A spellcaster who draws on inherent d6
magic from a gift or bloodline
Warlock A wielder of magic that is derived from d8
a bargain with an extraplanar entity
Wizard A scholarly magic-user capable of d6
manipulating the structures of reality

[numerek]

Wiz 12, Sorc 6, Warlock 2 does that same combo better.
With Hex, Bestow Curse and Rotting Flesh all active, that class combination will inflict an average of 658 damage on their next turn with a quickened level 9 Scorching Ray followed by Eldritch Blast. That is the most damage that I am aware of that a single character could inflict in a single turn (Well obviously it would inflict more if each attack inflicted max damage and crit which would result in 1904 in a single turn but that is too improbable to consider).

I think you need to check your spells lists, cause contagion isn't on wizard, sorcerer or warlock lists, that's why it has to be a bard though if you are multi classing you just need 9 levels in cleric or druid but neither really help the situation more than a bard does and they don't have as much synergy with sorcerer, you could still do better with 12 bard, 6 sorcerer, 2 fighter you can pick up hex with magic secrets, action surge level 9 scorching ray and level 8 scorching ray and that leaves your bonus action open to retarget hex if your first target goes down.

[Mechaviking]

I´ve come to realize Bards are stupidly awesome:

The Lore bard can use his inspiration for himself(as a reaction), You can load up on feats and Use polymorph self to turn yourself into a melee monster(become a Giant ape at lvl 7) and when you hit the highest spell level you can just true polymorph yourself into a creature with an awesome stat line... Permanently.

And you can also do what the other guy talked about y´know buckets and buckets worth of ranged damage.