A strange realization that ties to Stanley's rant...

[Artanis]

So, on page 32, Stanley says he's "holy", which would imply that Ansom is either "unholy" or at least "not-holy". Ansom is from the Jetstone tribe. Well, something I realized:

"Jet" = "Black"
"Stone" = "Rock"

So "Jetstone Tribe" means the exact same thing as "Black Rock Tribe", and the Black Rock Clan are the biggest demon-worshipers among the Orcs in the Warcraft universe. So Stanley is using the holy power of the Titans to fight against a massive horde of an army led by somebody whose name is connected to diabolist bad guys from another storyverse...


Just a thought :smallwink:

[onasuma]

I rekon its just a coincidence, but you might be on to something.

[Mauril Everleaf]

In Erfworld, nothing is a coincidence. Rob himself has said that there are more layers than even he understands. WooooOOOOooooo!

[EvilElitest]

So, on page 32, Stanley says he's "holy", which would imply that Ansom is either "unholy" or at least "not-holy". Ansom is from the Jetstone tribe. Well, something I realized:

"Jet" = "Black"
"Stone" = "Rock"

So "Jetstone Tribe" means the exact same thing as "Black Rock Tribe", and the Black Rock Clan are the biggest demon-worshipers among the Orcs in the Warcraft universe. So Stanley is using the holy power of the Titans to fight against a massive horde of an army led by somebody whose name is connected to diabolist bad guys from another storyverse...


Just a thought :smallwink:

Sweet lord, i just killed their leader this morning. I killed Ansom?
In reality, i might call it just luck, but considering the nature of this comic i don't think so. I think you might be one to something. But doesn't Plaid mean pale and balding. I'm not so sure.
from,
EE

[Mauril Everleaf]

Not to my knowledge. Plaid usually refers to a collection of interwoven colors, like a stereotypical picnic blanket or a kilt. Plaid. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plaid)

[slayerx]

In Erfworld, nothing is a coincidence. Rob himself has said that there are more layers than even he understands. WooooOOOOooooo!

Yes... but i think i recall poeple saying that Jetstone more likely came from "The JETsons" and "The FlinSTONEs" combining those two together... and if that's where Rob got the name from, then the connection to "black rock" could actually be just a coincidence.

Though we could ponder as too how much Warcraft Rob plays... i mean sure he used leeroy jenkins, but even non-warcraft plays know of Leeroy. But stuff like the Black Rock clan are something that only warcraft players would be familiar with, not to mention care enough about it to use it as an undertone for one of the major characters in their story...

[Mauril Everleaf]

Rob could have just as easily chosen Flinsons Tribe instead of Jetstone. Things can have multiple layers of meaning. Just because it's unlikely doesn't mean that it isn't the truth.

[Innis Cabal]

Jetstone taken this way would be....redundant.. i think its just the jetsons taken in erfworld speak

[Mauril Everleaf]

How could that be? Erfspeak generally transliterates letters (r=w, l=w, th=f?) and only in the names of creatures. Jetstone is an obvious reference to the Jetsons and Flintstones (as evidenced by the Wilma in page 7). Jetstone may be an oblique reference to Black Rock from WoW, which seems possible due to the reference to Leeroy Jenkins (which I only heard of after my introduction to WoW). Just because it's not likely or directly logical doesn't mean that it isn't a valid reference. In fact, if you look at the other bizarre references and allusions in Erfworld, it seems pretty likely that something this weird and tenuous would be something that Rob would use.

I doubt Rob would comment on this, since it would reveal some of the future of Erfworld (the comic, not the world specifically), but when it is all said and done, we will see. If not, then we can ask.

[Molehill]

It doesn't really make sense.

Besides, it doesn't work linguistically.
People say "jet-black" because jetstones are black, not the other way around. Jet no more "means" black than sky, for example, "means" blue.

[ChimericPhase]

It doesn't really make sense.

Besides, it doesn't work linguistically.
People say "jet-black" because jetstones are black, not the other way around. Jet no more "means" black than sky, for example, "means" blue.


I begto differ. You're putting the cart before the horse, the origins of the word jet meant "a deep black color" preceded the rock they dug out of the ground and aptly named jetstone for it's remarkable black color. So truthfuy, saying jet-black is almost like saying PIN number.

Think about it. Why would people call a jetstone 'jet' and not 'blackstone' or 'darkstone'? It's certainly not because it reminded them of large rocket powered flying machines. Words have origins, and just because they gain new meanings, doesn't mean those new ones are the only ones that apply to any given situation.

Your second remark only proves that dennotation means nothing in the face of connotation and context. If I said she wore a "beautiful sky colored dress" you might think gray or green or black ... but the likelyhood you'll think blue is pretty high.

Now, considering this comic's propensity for subtle sneaky humor and refrences (I still haven't made up my mind about pie), I think anything is within the ballpark for this one.

[Erk]

Molehill: yes, but if they were the skystone tribe, and "blue rock" was the demon worshipper tribe in Warcraft, the analogy would still make sense. "sky" is still a reasonable substitute for the word "blue" in that kind of wordgame.

Also, in the modern vernacular "jet" does indeed mean black. The etymology is that the word comes from the stone of the same name, but just as "topaz" is a kind of yellow and a rock, "jet" is a kind of black and a rock.

[Eldritch_Ent]

Yeah, but then you're going on the assumption Black = Bad and unholy. Which it doesn't neccisarily mean. (Unless you're a racist. :P )

Sometimes a color is a color, and a cigar is a cigar. And sometimes a name is just an amalgamation of two others. :P

[Mauril Everleaf]

I don't think that the assumption was that "black" meant "bad", but rather that the oblique reference to the Black Rock Clan, identified as "the Black Rock Clan are the biggest demon-worshipers among the Orcs in the Warcraft universe", signifies that Ansom is not the force of good.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Its a reference to Jetsons. Look at the king. King Slately is a combination of both George and Fred's bosses/Company. You have Mr. Slate and Spacely's Sprockets. Jetstone is the stame. Jetson + Flinstone

[Electric_Monkey]

Mauril has already argued that the one interpretation doesn't invalidate the other - I don't think anyone's denying the Flintstone/Jetson thing - they're just suggesting it could refer to the Black Rock clan as well.

[Mauril Everleaf]

Rob could have just as easily chosen Flinsons Tribe instead of Jetstone [if it was only a Flintstones/Jetsons reference]. Things can have multiple layers of meaning. Just because it's unlikely doesn't mean that it isn't the truth.
I quoted myself to reinforce what Electric Monkey had to say, and so that ObadiahtheSlim would be assured to see that I was not arguing for one and against the other, but rather for both. Quote contains addendum in brackets for clarification.

[Molehill]

I too beg to differ, ChimericPhase.
Encyclopedia Brittanica says that the word jet arrived from the greek gagates, named for town called Gagas in asia minor where jet or something like it was discovered.

[fangthane]

Rob could have just as easily chosen Flinsons Tribe instead of Jetstone. Things can have multiple layers of meaning. Just because it's unlikely doesn't mean that it isn't the truth.

Of course, it could just as easily be pointed out that while Jetstone is descriptive, which goes with the general trend of names in Erfworld, Flinson is (at least typically) a patronymic, of which we've seen none. Hence, while an option it would be one which wouldn't fit where Jetstone would. That it's still possible it's a deliberate reference I wouldn't deny. However, I'd consider it likely to be one of the deeper levels of meaning than those of which even its creator is (at least consciously) aware.

[Mauril Everleaf]

Just becaues the half dozen last names we have are not patronymic does not mean that there aren't any. I'll agree that there are more layers of meaning that just a surface allusion to a 60s cartoon. A contemporary MMOG allusion seems to fit well with the MMOTBS that this seems to resemble.

[Imgran]

Your second remark only proves that dennotation means nothing in the face of connotation and context. If I said she wore a "beautiful sky colored dress" you might think gray or green or black ... but the likelyhood you'll think blue is pretty high.

Doesn't quite work perfectly though.

Being red-clad nr green-clad denotes a color, being sky-clad denotes something else entirely. :smallbiggrin:

[Gez]

I begto differ. You're putting the cart before the horse, the origins of the word jet meant "a deep black color" preceded the rock they dug out of the ground and aptly named jetstone for it's remarkable black color.

Except that this is completely false.


Think about it. Why would people call a jetstone 'jet' and not 'blackstone' or 'darkstone'? It's certainly not because it reminded them of large rocket powered flying machines. Words have origins, and just because they gain new meanings, doesn't mean those new ones are the only ones that apply to any given situation.

You're further proving you don't know what you're speaking about.

It's not like etymology of common words is a particularly arcane knowledge, given how you have sites such as dictionary.reference.com or m-w.com that provide that to you in barely a minute. When schooling other people, it helps to check first the validity of your "facts."

So, for reference, the jet stone is not named so because it's black, it's named after a city in which it was found. The name was deformed and evolved, and ended up being "jet" after a while.


Dictionary.com: (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jet)
[Origin: 1350–1400; ME jet, get < OF jaiet ≪ L gagātés < Gk (líthos) gaghttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/660000/i/amacracute.pngtés Gagatic (stone), named after Gágai, town in Lycia; cf. obs. gagate, ME, OE gagātes < L, as abovehttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

Merriam-Webster: (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/jet)
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French jaiet, from Latin gagates, from Greek gagatEs, from Gagas, town and river in Asia Minor

The relationship with rockets? Absolutely none! This homonym (same name) of jet has a completely different etymology:


[Origin: 1580–90; 1940–45 for def. 4; < MF jeter to throw < VL *jectāre, alter. of L jactāre, equiv. to jac- throw + -t- freq. suffix + -āre inf. suffixhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

So, jet (color) is named after jet (stone) which itself is named after "jet" (city, actually

[Zekrazey1]

A contemporary MMOG allusion seems to fit well with the MMOTBS that this seems to resemble.

Warcraft was a strategy game before it was an MMORPG.

[Mauril Everleaf]

Warcraft was a strategy game before it was an MMORPG.
(Please site your quotes. This one is from me.) Right, Warcraft, Warcraft II, Warcraft II:The Dark Portal, and the various Warcraft III's. I know all of that. I actually own WI and WII. WoW however is what was mentioned (IIRC) for the Black Rock Clan of demon worshipping orcs, hence my continuation of the use of the MMOG. Also, since Erfworld appears to be an MMOTBS (which I am unsure if they even exist), I made the parallel between the MMOG of WoW and Erfworld, rather than the more tenuous connection of the Warcraft RTS and Erfworld.

[Corolinth]

I would like to familiarize the readers of this thread with a concept often employed in artwork of all forms:
http://m-w.com/dictionary/double%20entendre

[Mauril Everleaf]

Corolinth, in this case, double entendre doesn't really apply, it's really a double allusion. But good effort. (No sarcasm there, even though it looks like it might.)

[Erk]

I love how seriously people take arguments on the internet.

Regardless of its etymology, most people with a good command of english associate the word "jet" with the colour black. The end! So no matter whether or not Artanis' statement was perfectly etymologically accurate, it is completely valid for the purposes of developing a speculation about correlation between "jet stone" and "black rock".

Also, Gez wins the prize for repeating things that have already been said in the most pretentious possible way.