What Makes Greyhawk Special?

[unseenmage]

What are the top 10 ways Greyhawk differs from say Faerun or Eberron?

That's it. Just want some canonical lore and ways to make the three settings feel different.
I'm familiar enough with Faerun and Eberron, but I find my Greyhawk knowledge is a bit fuzzy.

[Phelix-Mu]

Well, I believe it is the oldest setting in the game dating back several editions. It has people like Mordenkainen, Bigby, Iuz, Otiluke, and so forth, originators of some of the more interesting spells/items/locales that the game has provided down the years.

In 3e, it became the default setting, and is particularly key because it's Great Wheel is the default planar cosmology, meaning that most games that use plane-hopping as per the DMG are drawing from the Greyhawk setting.

In older editions, Oerth was just another planet in a crystal sphere hanging in space, along with the other settings (most of which had their own spheres, from what I recall). Spelljammer linked the settings in space, while Planescape linked the settings abstractly through plane-jumping magic.

[Sartharina]

Simple - just invert the top 10 ways Eberron and Faerun are different from the core game.

From what little I remember - Iuz and Vecna are two of the biggest threats in Greyhawk, and the titular city is surrounded by some of the most improbable geography ever.

Alas, I lost my Greyhawk Gazetteer.

[Snowbluff]

Snowbluff keeps forgetting it exists.

[jedipotter]

What are the top 10 ways Greyhawk differs from say Faerun or Eberron?




Well, it is not ''special''. It is just the oldest. Going way, way, way back to 0E.

It is the most classic pure setting: basically a copy of Middle Earth. There is noting really ''unique'' about the setting. It is just a setting.

Compared to FR or EB, it has a lot less magic. Again, a lot like Middle Earth. It has a lot less fantasy elements, like no flying ships. And it has a lot less ''powerful NPC's'' compared the FR (but way more powerful ones then Eberron's ''everyone is a helpless'').

[ranagrande]

It's probably the most well-developed setting, with the most statted people, places, organizations, and so on. It also probably has more published adventure modules then every other setting combined.

Of course, most of that Living Greyhawk stuff is hard to find now.

[BWR]

It's probably the most well-developed setting, with the most statted people, places, organizations, and so on. It also probably has more published adventure modules then every other setting combined.


Unlikely. FR has more supplements all together, If the Wikipedia pages are accurate there are some 63 adventures set in Greyhawk, while FR has in excess of 50. Known World/Mystara has at least 37 specifically set in that setting. Dragonlance has a fair number as well (20 or so, IIRC).

[Eldan]

Though a lot of those adventures can be thrown into a lot of settings. Especially the Greyhawk ones, I think all the newer versions have "in Forgotten Realms" sidebars and so on and the older ones are often really generic so they can be fit in anywhere.

[ranagrande]

Unlikely. FR has more supplements all together, If the Wikipedia pages are accurate there are some 63 adventures set in Greyhawk, while FR has in excess of 50. Known World/Mystara has at least 37 specifically set in that setting. Dragonlance has a fair number as well (20 or so, IIRC).

Yes, but the Living Greyhawk campaign was something around 2000 adventures.

[Urpriest]

Greyhawk is old-school fantasy. I definitely wouldn't call it middle-earth-esque, though. It's more in the vein of Vance and Conan, and you can exploit that to make the setting feel rather alien for a modern audience.

For example, there are lots of Sci-Fi elements roaming around. There are crashed spaceships, meaningful involvement by spacefaring races like the Neogi, and people like Murlynd walking around with non-steampunk guns. The Far Realm serves in a more classical Lovecraftian sci-fi vein, rather than the more supernatural magi-bio-tech take that Eberron has.

Rather than basing their cultures on real-world cultures and fantasy archetypes like Faerun, Greyhawk has Conan-style cultures based on more arbitrary mixes of traits. Important characters tend to blur different parts of the setting together, and regions in general don't have the sort of broad thematic unity they have in other settings. The people in power are often not exemplars of their culture, but former PCs, so they don't usually "match" very well, and there are plenty of characters who are just "powerful guy who takes over stuff".

Basically, think about the effect a party of PCs has on the setting, then multiply it by however many campaigns Gygax and friends played. Now take into account that very few of these people are the sort we would call "roleplayers".

It can make for a very alien and different setting, if you focus on these sorts of elements.

[Sartharina]

... I wish I hadn't lost my Greyhawk Gazetteer, now.

But yeah. Greyhawk has such awesome places like the Caves of Chaos, Barrier Peaks, and Tomb of Horrors.


In a lot of ways, Greyhawk is the most outright gonzo D&D settings, because it just "is".

[ArqArturo]

Greyhawk doesn't make you wonder why all the all-powerful wizards aren't ruling the world; this is my biggest gripe with Forgotten Realms.

Eberron, while awesome, feels more like a steampunk setting than vanilla fantasy (then again, Greyhawk isn't also that vanilla :p).

[Ferronach]

Snowbluff keeps forgetting it exists.

Never thought I would see the day.... hahaha

[Fax Celestis]

Unlikely. FR has more supplements all together, If the Wikipedia pages are accurate there are some 63 adventures set in Greyhawk, while FR has in excess of 50. Known World/Mystara has at least 37 specifically set in that setting. Dragonlance has a fair number as well (20 or so, IIRC).

It depends also on whether or not you count Living Greyhawk or Living Faerun, back when those were things.

[rexreg]

As an extension of Oerth being the oldest setting:
I've played D&D, usually as DM, for over 30 years. At this point, when I run a campaign set in Greyhawk, I am not using Greyhawk as put forth in canon. Any kingdom set up by a PC, leader assassinated by a party, demi-god killed (looking at you, Vecna), or castle built near Hommlett has become part of the world. This makes the setting much more personalized, the NPC's much more real.

[Sartharina]

As an extension of Oerth being the oldest setting:
I've played D&D, usually as DM, for over 30 years. At this point, when I run a campaign set in Greyhawk, I am not using Greyhawk as put forth in canon. Any kingdom set up by a PC, leader assassinated by a party, demi-god killed (looking at you, Vecna), or castle built near Hommlett has become part of the world. This makes the setting much more personalized, the NPC's much more real.Isn't this the proper way to run Greyhawk, to keep with the spirit of that setting?

[rexreg]

Sartharina - I would like to think so, but have encountered otherwise. Some people live & die by canon, whether it be Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, or some other setting.

[Sartharina]

Sartharina - I would like to think so, but have encountered otherwise. Some people live & die by canon, whether it be Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, or some other setting.... but that 'canon', at the expense of personalized campaigns shaping the world, defeats the whole damn purpose of Greyhawk!

If you want a gameworld where players aren't allowed to influence anything that might threaten the canon, but still have a progressing storyline, you use Forgotten Realms. if you want a setting where the setting's a launch point for the players to alter the world, but the canon remains locked at a single point in time that all campaigns launch from, you use Eberron.


That said... what was Living Greyhawk? Because having players share Greyhawk campaign experiences and adapt each other's campaigns into their own meanderings of Greyhawk is probably one of the cooler ways to play the setting.

[rexreg]

Sartharina, you're preaching to the choir. I lasted 2 sessions.

[ranagrande]

Living Greyhawk was a massively multiplayer tabletop roleplaying game.

They divided the real world into regions that corresponded with a region in the world of Greyhawk. For instance, the state of Michigan in the USA represented Furyondy and Australia represented Perrenland. Each region put out ten or twenty regional adventures each year, and those could only be played within that region's geographical borders. These regions were grouped together in larger bodies known as metaregions. Those had metaregional adventures which could be played in any region belonging to that metaregion. There were also "core adventures" put out by the campaign, and those could be played anywhere in the world.

Many adventures had survey things that the DM had to fill out afterwards, with questions like "Did your PCs kill X? Did they rescue Y?" The results of those would all be tabulated and the most common outcomes were considered canon for future adventures.

And then there were meta-orgs and other regional things. Local volunteers were given lots of creative control for their regions and anyone who wanted to could submit adventure modules, so lots of characters left their marks that way too.

[Gnome Alone]

Y'know, I guessed Living Greyhawk was something similar to what you just described, but I had never actually found out. That sounds awesome!

...Although I could see it being frustrating if one was consistently thinking "But I did kill X, dammit."

[SiuiS]

Isn't this the proper way to run Greyhawk, to keep with the spirit of that setting?

That's supposed to be how you run all D&D, and I think getting away from that as the core pursuit has had an effect on the quality of DMs. That's why so much effort used to go into maps, charts, continuity; because you would be playing with those notes for the next twenty or more years. That's why there was so much focus on your world and your rules; for the consistency and trust to make those twenty years work.

Now people flit around from game to game, and some people do that excellently! But the basic conceits that formed a lot of the backwards stuff aren't there anymore, so now we have the backwards things for no reason but inertia, and the core ideas that were embedded in DM training just aren't there. I think the lack of clear structure retards the growth of a lot of young up-and-comers.


Y'know, I guessed Living Greyhawk was something similar to what you just described, but I had never actually found out. That sounds awesome!

...Although I could see it being frustrating if one was consistently thinking "But I did kill X, dammit."

We've got something like that. My wizard lives in three or four concurrent timelines with varying degrees of divergence. And the DM doesn't always clarify which events are in which timeline. It adds spice to the whole "insane wizard" Schtick.