I need Epic (40-level) builds.

[atemu1234]

What are some good builds for a 40th level anything? Nothing exceptionally cheesy, but good ones?

[Garktz]

What you wanna achive? goals? Are you dm or pc? Gamestyle? There are just to many options....
Also, whats allowed? epic spellcasting?
When you ask for strong builds but not cheese, do you realize how much broken stuff is in there? and also, to many "ask the dm" things...

[atemu1234]

Let's assume for all intents and purposes I am DM. Epic spellcasting is allowed.

[Phelix-Mu]

No, no. Don't allow Epic Spellcasting. It's so broke it will render all these builds stuff highly irrelevant. A character with optimized Epic Spellcasting can win at anything on the basis of that alone.

Anyway, my idea is take level 20 gestalt builds on this site and others and drag them out over 40 levels. It's a bit rough around the edges, but it gives an idea to synergies. Plus, anything that can be jammed into 20 levels gestalt can almost certainly fit into 40 levels (barring some martially-inclined builds that require high BAB, since BAB doesn't climb past 20).

[AvatarVecna]

Do you need the build for a specific purpose, like the BBEG? Is this hypothetical? What qualifies as cheese?

Honestly, just knowing the level of the build you want and that you "Don't want cheese" isn't exactly enough to put forth a good build. We still have an entire tier system of wiggle room. We could present anything from a decent monk/truenamer build to an epic version of the Batman Wizard. Uberchargers, ghost mages, thrallherd army leader, master hulking hurler...the list of things that become more viable in epic play is endless.

[Nishant]

If you're going for flavor, I always thought the concept of a lich hiding in plain sight was pretty neat; use lv.20 monk, then lv. 20 dread necromancer. Hypothetically speaking, the character would show no signs of his true being, as he is unable to actually decompose or age, to my understanding. And lichdom is a limited form of immortality in a sense, So he could continue into other classes. Not an optimized class by any means, but its interesting to think about. I think this could work with Druid as well, but the flavor seems a bit wrong for that, even if it could fit in the alignment scale.

[Kraken]

Wizard5/druid5/arcane hierophant20/archmage5/hierophant5 - but houserule hierophant to advance divine casting, because why on earth doesn't it in the first place? Replace wizard with wu jen for novelty if desired.

[aleucard]

Your first thing to keep in mind is that if you include Spellcasting (Epic, especially), then it's not going to matter all that much if you're level 21 or level 41. Once Epic casting becomes available, you plateau in a way. Assuming even mid-op, just about anything you can do with a level 40 build can be done with a level 20 build, it just needs a little less fiddling to do it. The only part that really benefits is that you're already going to be operating with 9th level spells, so picking PrC's with useful abilities but no actual progression is not as damaging (added CL doesn't make Time Stop any less game-breaking, for instance).

If you want to go for a non-caster, though, the progression still chugs along at roughly the same pace, though you're recommended to get full BAB for the first 20 levels if you can since Epic levels don't add to it last I checked. Outside of Tome of Battle (and even then they're not screwed that badly), it doesn't much matter what order you take things in as long as you take them. There's an amazing number of little things that aren't that bad on their own but would be significantly better if you could take them with other things if not for the level tax. Your request nixes that particular restriction.

Any further suggestions depends on what type of character you want to make.

[Rebel7284]

You have over 13 million gold based on wealth by level and you get to make your own spells, there is nothing non-broken about that.

Some classes I like in epic:
Eldrich Master (DR280)
Mind Mage (DR313)
Void Incarnate (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030418a)

[Deox]

Factotum 11 / Warblade 8 / Wizard 14 / Cosmic Descryer 7.

Extra Standard actions, 4 attacks per round, 9th level spells, auto breach SR and damage reduction. Cosmic Descryer ridiculousness. All intelligence based. No Epic Spellcasting shenanigans.

[AvatarVecna]

There was a challenge a while back to see whether or not how quickly a 21st level spellcaster with Epic Spellcasting could successfully, by RAW, cast an Epic spell that destroyed the entire planet. Honestly, there are easier ways to destroy the planet than Epic Spellcasting, but this was the goal. The estimated Spellcraft DC was somewhere in the dozens of digits range, clearly not anything any spellcaster would ever be meant to achieve in a game.

The winning build pulled it off in a year of total in-game time, and I'm convinced there's a quicker way to do it. And this was just with an unspecified ECL 21 caster; it doesn't matter what they are, or what their Spellcraft check is like, because the trick to epic spellcasting is to reduce the Spellcraft DC to 0, so that it takes no time, gold, or XP to craft it.

The point is that Epic Spellcasting is so ridiculously, absurdly easy to break, that absolutely nobody discusses it outside of Theoretical Optimization: unless you're intentionally trying to use it terribly, you no longer have an excuse for failing at anything ever.

[Urpriest]

If we're assuming you're a DM, then are we aiming for CR 40?

If so, maybe we could make RAI use of some of the Dragon PrCs from Draconomicon...

[Sith_Happens]

What are some good builds for a 40th level anything? Nothing exceptionally cheesy, but good ones?

Being 40th level is inherently "exceptionally cheesy," triply so with Epic Spellcasting.

[Rubik]

If you're going for flavor, I always thought the concept of a lich hiding in plain sight was pretty neat; use lv.20 monk, then lv. 20 dread necromancer. Hypothetically speaking, the character would show no signs of his true being, as he is unable to actually decompose or age, to my understanding. And lichdom is a limited form of immortality in a sense, So he could continue into other classes. Not an optimized class by any means, but its interesting to think about. I think this could work with Druid as well, but the flavor seems a bit wrong for that, even if it could fit in the alignment scale.What exactly does monk have to do with anything here? I mean, sure, you could hit things, dodge things without armor, and run fast, but that's all replicated by a couple of feats, a belt, and a speed-enhancing magic item or two.

[Urpriest]

What exactly does monk have to do with anything here? I mean, sure, you could hit things, dodge things without armor, and run fast, but that's all replicated by a couple of feats, a belt, and a speed-enhancing magic item or two.

Timeless Body, presumably.

[Phelix-Mu]

Timeless Body, presumably.

Druids do it better, of course.:smallwink:

Though I guess that's why the poster said that bit about the fluff being out of place for a druid.

Anyway, my latest thought is tack 20 levels of incarnum onto whatever spellcaster you want, and take a bunch of incarnum feats. With 40 levels there should be plenty of room for some randomness this way. Sadly incarnate is alignment-tied, but if you waive that and adapt Sapphire Hierarch to other alignments, some pretty useful effects can be generated for a minimal-cheese investment.

[Rubik]

Timeless Body, presumably.There are much better, easier, and faster ways to get similar effects.

Really, you only need one, two, or maybe six levels of monk to get anything and everything you could possibly want out of one. Tashalatoran monk 2/psywar 18 would be better than monk 20 in every conceivable way, for instance.

[Yael]

Wizard 40? No?

[aleucard]

Wizard 40? No?

Only thing you get out of the additonal 20 levels (hell, out of every level past the minimum needed for Lv. 9 spells) is Wizard Bonus Feats every 5 levels, and I'm not sure if Epic allows those, and a CL boost. Caster Level matters surprisingly little for most applications at that level. As mentioned before, if you can't do it at CL 21, chances are being CL 41 isn't going to help much. How many things besides Range, Area, and dispel resistance even track past the 20th without finangling?

[Rubik]

Only thing you get out of the additonal 20 levels (hell, out of every level past the minimum needed for Lv. 9 spells) is Wizard Bonus Feats every 5 levels, and I'm not sure if Epic allows those, and a CL boost. Caster Level matters surprisingly little for most applications at that level. As mentioned before, if you can't do it at CL 21, chances are being CL 41 isn't going to help much. How many things besides Range, Area, and dispel resistance even track past the 20th without finangling?I'd rather go StP erudite (or a psion with an erudite hireling to teach him powers and spells) and use Supernatural Transformation to boost my ML to my HD and make my powers completely ignore SR. If a psion, I wouldn't even have to worry about unique powers per day. If I know it, I can manifest it spontaneously.

Then I'd take the post-21 levels as either factotum or another manifesting class (like a wilder/metamind combo) for the extra power points and font of power.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Nothing exceptionally cheesy, but good ones?

There are epic builds between "exceptionally cheesy" and "can't put a dent in appropriate encounters"?