UMD Softcap.

[D4rkh0rus]

Is there a -soft- cap for UMD?

what do I mean, at what +modifier is UMD not worth putting more points into.

For example. Lets say I have a character with 14 charisma, 13 ranks in UMD, a +10 item of UMD and the ability to take 10 in UMD checks..
+2 from synergy for scrolls.

So, If I were to use UMD, I would get an effective "roll" of 35 for non scrolls and 37 for scrolls.

Assuming that I obtain +3 (either through +6 charisma or 3 more ranks) I would reach 38 and 40 respectively

Given that I auto get a 40 when using scrolls, that allows me to use any scrolls cast with CL 20 or less.

Is there any point in ranking up UMD anymore? or is there some extra use?

[Rubik]

There are always mythals and artifacts which the DM sets at a level much higher than those in print.

[P.F.]

You are correct that Use a Scroll base 20 + Caster Level 20 =DC 40 is the highest listed DC. The benefit of taking ranks to increase your bonus beyond this is that you can still use your 20th level scrolls in adverse conditions such as:

After being level-drained
After your special item has been sundered/dispelled/disjoined
After taking ability damage/drain to charisma
Probably some others I'm forgetting here ...

Also I don't know what class ability you use to take 10 on UMD checks but RAW, Skill Mastery only allows you to take 10 if stress and distractions would normally prevent you from doing so. UMD, however, isn't a stress-test skill; the nature of the skill (and it's explicit description) makes taking ten impossible.

[Rubik]

Also I don't know what class ability you use to take 10 on UMD checks but RAW, Skill Mastery only allows you to take 10 if stress and distractions would normally prevent you from doing so. UMD, however, isn't a stress-test skill; the nature of the skill (and it's explicit description) makes taking ten impossible.Well, there are other ways to take 10 on UMD. The artificer class and its Skill Mastery, for example.

If it works for the artificer, it could work on rogues.

[P.F.]

Good catch. Artificer explicitly states that it "circumvents" the rule preventing taking 10 on UMD checks.

[Rubik]

Good catch. Artificer explicitly states that it "circumvents" the rule preventing taking 10 on UMD checks.As does the rogue's Skill Mastery on...pretty much everything.

[P.F.]

One more time here and then I'm done.


As does the rogue's Skill Mastery on...pretty much everything.

...except for use magic device. Here's the text for taking ten:


When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10.

and the text for Skill Mastery (same for rogues, exemplars, pathfinder, 3.5):


When making a check with one of these skills, she can take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.

and the text of use magic device skill:


You cannot take 10 with this skill.

And the 3.5 Artificer class Skill Mastery:


an artificer can take 10 when making a Spellcraft or Use Magic Device check, even if stress and distractions would normally prevent him from doing so. This ability circumvents the normal rule that a character may not take 10 on a Use Magic Device check.

In Pathfinder, Artificers get no such ability, so with this RAW interpretation you would soft-cap your UMD at +39. Now for 3.5 I suppose you could argue that the artificer's ability has the same name as the rogue's ability and despite no other class with Skill Mastery listing this exception and ignoring other differences in the same-named abilities of different classes, it should still apply in this case. As with every build, it's not what the rules say, it's what your DM will allow. Which is another circumstance when having more than the soft-capped +30 to UMD might come up: arbitrary DM-imposed circumstance penalties. :smallwink:

[Extra Anchovies]

Warlocks can also take 10 on UMD via Deceive Item. Worth noting.