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The_Hansard
2014-11-05, 06:55 AM
Hi guys,
I've seen a couple of threads were people have been discussing swashbucklers and it seems that the consensus is that a rogue/fighter build (with possibly a bit of warlock) is the best bet. However I've got a character concept/back story for a bard/rogue build and I was wondering if I was wasting my time with this build (and would I be underpowered)?? I'm not looking for the most powerful/optimised build though, just something fun that fits the back story. Essentially I would like the character to be a typical swashbuckler, wielding a rapier and hand crossbow, jumping around, swinging from chandeliers, etc.

I'll try and keep the back story explanation fairly short (I pretty much wrote a whole essay to my GM earlier).

Essentially my character is a boy who was raised in a small magical community (around 20 adults). They’re living and working together to learn from each other and to further magic use (kind of a pseudo college/university arrangement). His parents are reasonable well respected although they they aren’t the leaders or the most talented magic users there (but they are both magic users). Since both his parents are magic users there was high expectations placed on him and his older sibling could achieve greatness.

From a young age he showed some aptitude with magic which excited his parents and so they had him (and his sibling, who appeared just as talented – if not more talented) gaining additional training in the school. This was not uncommon (for children to get extra magical training) given the number of magic users in the community. He was a reasonably good student but preferred to read books, especially those that dealt with hidden secrets, great adventures and epic stories. His parents weren’t thrilled about this but never stopped him as long as he completed his homework and chores. A while ago his ‘dodgy’ uncle came to visit; uncle is a bard (well at least that’s what he tells everyone - does play and instrument and perform) and his uncle saw that he interested in these stories and tales and decided to ‘help’ him with his studies. Long story short the uncle ends up training him to be a bard/thief.

His uncle returned and found out that he was working in the village library and essentially trained him (some would say used him) to help steal a magical tome. My character then gives the tome to his uncle who tries to hand it over to his contacts but then gets roughed up (they try and kill him) only for my character to intervene. This means that he can no longer stay in his community and must go off with his uncle.

If you managed to read through all of that then thanks :smallsmile:

So I'll be starting from Lvl 1 probably as a bard and playing through as long as I can (lvl 20 is always a goal). I haven't decided what race I'll play but I'm leaning towards human (for the extra feat - crossbow master) or half elf. I was thinking of giving him the charlatan background. As for the multiclass split I'm thinking bard14/rogue6 (bard college of valour and rogue thief).

Anyway any help with how I should lvl or if this is even a viable build would be awesome.

Cheers

Madfellow
2014-11-05, 09:56 AM
I'm not sure the Rogue dip is really necessary. If it were me I'd just go straight Valor Bard.

Rfkannen
2014-11-05, 12:09 PM
Personally instead of rogue I would do battle master. Gives that good swashbuckling fighting feel.

Scirocco
2014-11-05, 04:33 PM
If you're going to dip Rogue, just do Rog 2 for Cunning Action and be done with it, possibly picking up the Mobile feat. Uncanny Dodge is decent but probably isn't worth delaying your Bard class features.

The_Hansard
2014-11-05, 07:34 PM
Cool thanks for the help guys. The reason I was looking at rogue was to suit the backstory and to pick up uncanny dodge and 2nd story work. Also the extra sneak attack damage (through flanking enemies) seemed good.

Does a bard gain an extra attack at any lvl? I guess if I can use my hand crossbow as a reaction with crossbow expert then I don't really need to worry about it.

I considered later on going for a couple of lvls of fighter but I'm not sure how that fits thematically

RealCheese
2014-11-05, 07:37 PM
Cool thanks for the help guys. The reason I was looking at rogue was to suit the backstory and to pick up uncanny dodge and 2nd story work. Also the extra sneak attack damage (through flanking enemies) seemed good.

Does a bard gain an extra attack at any lvl? I guess if I can use my hand crossbow as a reaction with crossbow expert then I don't really need to worry about it.

I considered later on going for a couple of lvls of fighter but I'm not sure how that fits thematically

Valor bards gain a second attack at level 5 I believe.

TheTeaMustFlow
2014-11-06, 09:48 AM
Valor bards gain a second attack at level 5 I believe.

6th, actually.

Personally, I'd either just stick to Bard, or only take two levels of rogue for mobility - sneak attacks aren't very swashbuckling anyway.

The_Hansard
2014-11-06, 06:47 PM
Ahh yep 6th lvl for bard I can live with that. I'm thinking that a 2 lvl dip into rogue might work.

I understand what you're saying about sneak attacks not being very swashbuckling but I would only use them when flanking, which would make mobility an awesome feat. I could move in, attack someone who's being attacked get the sneak bonus and then move away.

Well that seals it I think I'll go variant human for the bard and eventually end up with a bard18/ rogue2.

I'll post my stats/build when I get home

odigity
2014-11-07, 03:53 AM
I understand what you're saying about sneak attacks not being very swashbuckling but I would only use them when flanking, which would make mobility an awesome feat.


Don't even trip, dog. If the name's bothering you, change it: Sneak Awesome Attack

Swashbucklers are awesome, and you deserve an extra 1d6/round, because you are awesome.

The_Hansard
2014-11-07, 07:53 AM
Don't even trip, dog. If the name's bothering you, change it: Sneak Awesome Attack

Swashbucklers are awesome, and you deserve an extra 1d6/round, because you are awesome.

Thanks odigity that is awesome!!! But I reckon for a Swashbuckler I might rename it the astonishing attack or possibly the breathtaking attack.

So I fleshed out my character tonight. He's a variant human and starts from Lvl 1 with the following stats

Str 8
Dex 15
Con 13
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 16

I used the standard array and added the 2 single +1 stats to Cha and Dex. Although I'm wondering if I can talk my DM into letting me drop my Wis to 10 and increasing my Str to 10?

My 6 skills are Acrobatics, Athletics, Deception, Performance, Persuasion and Sleight of hand (Deception and Sleight of hand are from the Charlatan background). I also took the mobile feat but I wondering if its worth taking if I get cunning action from the rogue. But it does increase my battlefield movement. I did consider crossbow expert to use a hand crossbow but with the issues regarding how the feat is used I dropped it for the moment.

My spells were vicious mockery and true strike (gaining adv will help when I get my 1st lvl of rogue) and lvl 1 spells are detect magic, thunderwave, healing word and faerie fire (more advantage).

Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks for the help already everyone :smallbiggrin:

TomPliss
2014-11-07, 09:00 AM
Don't forget you only have 1 bonus action.
the hand crossbow would take it from the possibilities you (will) have thanks to rogue 2 or simply from the bonus action bard spells.