Does anyone here have any experience with the Cerulean Seas campaign setting?

[EisenKreutzer]

I have a few questions about the Cerulean Seas campaign setting by Alluria Publishing, concerning the bouyancy rules.

I'm staring at the rules now, and I can't for the life of me make sense of them.

Bouyancy is either positive or negative, and designates whether a creature sinks or floats, and by how much their bouyancy must be offset by either floats, anchors or a swim blader to reach bouyancy 0, at which point a creature no longer has to spend part of it's swim speed to stop sinking/rising. That portion I'm ok with.

Then there swim bladders. A swim bladder is either type A, B or C, type A being equal to a float three size categories smaller than the creature (and unable to be re-filled without returning to the surface as far as I can tell) and representing a lunged creature holding it's breath. Type B swim bladders function as if the creature has a masterwork float three size categories smaller, while type C, the best ones, function as a larger float. We can ignore type C, since no playable races have them.

Now, it's these swim bladders, and the racial bouyancy stat, which are confusing me.
A type A swim bladder seems to require the creature to return to the surface to fill their lungs with air, yet the sea elf race has one, and they are explicitly stated as being able to breathe both water and air normally.

Then there are some races which have no swim bladder (no A/B/C next to their racial bouyancy). These races then are unable to adjust their bouyancy, and will invariably sink to the bottom or rise to the surface without artificial floats or anchors. One of the races even has a bouyancy of +100, which means it will always rise to the surface unless they sacrifice almost all of their swim speed just to keep from rising.

None of this makes sense to me, so I'm hoping someone here has some experience with these rules and can tell me what it is I'm missing.

[Ssalarn]

Cerulean Seas is actually what got me over to Pathfinder :)

The buoyancy rules were a little wonky, but I don't recall you having to return to the surface to refill them. Many of the races are meant to live at different depths and really do automatically float to the surface (as that's their natural habitat) without either weighing themselves down or actively swimming down. There are also artificial air bladders that can be used to help manipulate buoyancy.

When I get home this evening I'll pull out my copy of the book to refresh myself and see if I can break it all down point by point for you.

One thing about Cerulean Seas you may have noticed, full attacks are actively discouraged by the system. Unless you can move and full attack or can get your buoyancy at exactly 0, it's almost impossible to full attack, which is why the main combat class introduced in the book (the Mariner) is so incentivized to move or manipulate his reach anyways. A lot of the normal combat expectations shift quite a bit when you're using the CS aquatic combat rules.

[EisenKreutzer]

Cerulean Seas is actually what got me over to Pathfinder :)

I absolutely love the setting. It's one of the coolest 3PP settings I have ever seen.


The buoyancy rules were a little wonky, but I don't recall you having to return to the surface to refill them. Many of the races are meant to live at different depths and really do automatically float to the surface (as that's their natural habitat) without either weighing themselves down or actively swimming down. There are also artificial air bladders that can be used to help manipulate buoyancy.

The thing I'm struggling with are racial bouyancy and airbladders. I can't for the life of me figure out how a races airbladders work, and I have read and reread the rules for floats. If a race that can breathe air has a type A airbladder, which specifically states it can be adjusted like a normal float three sizes smaller than the creature, how can the float be reajusted? Does the creature need to return to the surface? That makes sense for creatures with lungs, like the crocodile people and the frog people, but not for sea elves who can breathe water and air. I really need someone to explain this to me like I'm 5.


When I get home this evening I'll pull out my copy of the book to refresh myself and see if I can break it all down point by point for you.

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.


One thing about Cerulean Seas you may have noticed, full attacks are actively discouraged by the system. Unless you can move and full attack or can get your buoyancy at exactly 0, it's almost impossible to full attack, which is why the main combat class introduced in the book (the Mariner) is so incentivized to move or manipulate his reach anyways. A lot of the normal combat expectations shift quite a bit when you're using the CS aquatic combat rules.

I hadn't noticed that, actually, and thats very cool. I like how the underwater environment defies expectations like that.

[Ssalarn]

I remember the night when one of my players just suddenly got buoyancy and went on a geometry wars rampage. He charged one opponent, then floated into threatening range of the enemy spellcaster, then used the negative buoyancy on his weapon to increase it's range and hurl it at an enemy trying to flee into the deeps. I know once you actually put it all together, it just adds multiple new dimensions to the way you run and participate in combats.

Not really on subject, but do you have the expansion books like Azure Abyss and Indigo Ice? They're just as good as the Campaign Setting. I've been meaning to pick up a print copy of their bestiary as well.

[EisenKreutzer]

I remember the night when one of my players just suddenly got buoyancy and went on a geometry wars rampage. He charged one opponent, then floated into threatening range of the enemy spellcaster, then used the negative buoyancy on his weapon to increase it's range and hurl it at an enemy trying to flee into the deeps. I know once you actually put it all together, it just adds multiple new dimensions to the way you run and participate in combats.

Not really on subject, but do you have the expansion books like Azure Abyss and Indigo Ice? They're just as good as the Campaign Setting. I've been meaning to pick up a print copy of their bestiary as well.

I bought the bundle on DriveTrhuRPG, so I have everything they've published so far. I'm working my way through Indigo Ice now (gotta love Arnold Penguinegger), after reading the core setting book and Waves of Thought which I loved.

[Ssalarn]

I bought the bundle on DriveTrhuRPG, so I have everything they've published so far. I'm working my way through Indigo Ice now (gotta love Arnold Penguinegger), after reading the core setting book and Waves of Thought which I loved.

Dude, Roid-Rage Penguin became the character portrait for one of the most badass characters I've ever played. I played a Mariner and used a skith (if I recall the name of the racial weapon correctly) to skate everywhere, dishing out massive Vital Strikes enhanced by Sudden Strike. I was just sad when the adventure shifted to being almost entirely aquatic since my coolness and effectiveness levels went down a few notches.

Okay, so I'm at the chapter on Buoyancy, lets see if we can break this down:

1) Buoyancy is the replacement mechanic for encumbrance when in the water.

2) Buoyancy is either positive or negative; positive buoyancy makes you float up, negative buoyancy makes you sink down.

3) Sinking items and creatures fall downward at a speed of 10 feet the first round, increasing by 10 feet each round to a maximum of 60 feet. Floating items and creatures rise upward at a speed of 10 feet the first round, increasing by
10 feet each round to a maximum of 60 feet. Zero buoyancy items or creatures sink at a rate of 5 feet per minute if left unattended. Zero buoyancy is generally the ideal place to be if you don't want to deal with sink or float.

4)Normal movement can be enhanced if moving in the direction that buoyancy is pulling by up to 10 feet, if the swimmer is moving at a speed of less than 60 feet. For example, if a swimmer with positive buoyancy is swimming upward at 55 feet before the effect of buoyancy is added, buoyancy will add an additional 5 feet to reach a total speed upward of 60 feet. Buoyancy never adds to a character’s speed to make it greater than 60 feet.

5) Floats and/or air bladders can be used to regulate buoyancy. From what I can find it does look like you need a source of air to inflate a float or air bladder.

6) There are three types of air bladders:
Type A: can adjust buoyancy as a float 3 size categories smaller (for a medium creature this means up to +300 BU). Requires a source of air to inflate.
Type B: can adjust buoyancy as a masterwork float 3 size categories smaller. The masterwork tag means 2 things; it is instead effectively only 2 size categories smaller, providing up to +800 BU, and does not require a source of air to reinflate. This is basically the best air bladder you can have as it allows you to freely adjust your buoyancy without needing to reach a source of air.
Type C: Can adjust buoyancy as a float 2 sizes smaller. Provides up to +800 BU but needs a source of air to reinflate.

7) 100 BU (buoyancy units) from an air bladder can be consumed for one breath.

8) A sea elf's racial buoyancy is -50, so the main purpose of their air bladder is to regulate their buoyancy. By filling their air bladder to at least 50 bu, they can inherently achieve buoyancy 0. This is actually very beneficial for the sea elf; since he has glungs, he has no need to sustain himself by consuming air from his bladder. This is essentially an understated class ability of the sea elf, this ability to freely compensate for his own negative buoyancy and up to -250 bu of gear. The main downside is that if he needs to decrease his buoyancy by releasing air from his bladder, he cannot refill it without a source of air.

Let me know if that helped.

[EisenKreutzer]

That helped, actually.

Now, the thing that has been annoying me the most is the Viridian naiad. The Viridian naiad has a racial bouyancy of +100, and no airbladder. This means the only options available to them to achieve bouyancy 0 is sacrificing nearly all their movement speed, making them the slowest swimmers in the sea, or strap lots of rocks to themselves. I get that they inhabit shallow coral-rich waters, but the entire species should be bobbing at the surface by the rules. Why would they need anchors to swim around when they are supposed to be an ocean race like the other races? They also have a depth tolerance of 2500, so they really should be at home in deep waters, but with no way of regulating their positive (and very high) natural bouyancy they simply will never be able to swim to those depths.

Am I missing something?

[Ssalarn]

That helped, actually.

Now, the thing that has been annoying me the most is the Viridian naiad. The Viridian naiad has a racial bouyancy of +100, and no airbladder. This means the only options available to them to achieve bouyancy 0 is sacrificing nearly all their movement speed, making them the slowest swimmers in the sea, or strap lots of rocks to themselves. I get that they inhabit shallow coral-rich waters, but the entire species should be bobbing at the surface by the rules. Why would they need anchors to swim around when they are supposed to be an ocean race like the other races? They also have a depth tolerance of 2500, so they really should be at home in deep waters, but with no way of regulating their positive (and very high) natural bouyancy they simply will never be able to swim to those depths.

Am I missing something?

I don't think you're missing anything. It looks like Viridian Naiads need to either carry around Fine anchors to mitigate their natural buoyancy if they want to travel to those depths, or sacrifice 5-10 feet of movement each round to compensate for their upwards float. Note that they only need a STR of 11 to treat that 100 BU as a light load and avoid any penalty there. So, yeah, without an anchor they'll eventually float upwards but as long as they aren't picking up upward momentum it's "only" costing them 1/3 of their movement, and the anchors are literally only 1 sp. I think that the Viridian Naiads are supposed to basically look like a kelp reef when they're at rest (it does note that they're as much plant as person). What I find weird is that their depth tolerance is 2 1/2 times that of the "deepwater" nixie.

[EisenKreutzer]

Ok, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. :smallsmile: I'm sure there will be more, but so far you have really helped put everything in place for me. Man, I really, really love Cerulean Seas. After I finished the core book I immediately added parts of it to my own campaign setting. The oceans of my world really needed some detail, and using Cerulean Seas just feels right.

[Ssalarn]

Ok, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. :smallsmile: I'm sure there will be more, but so far you have really helped put everything in place for me. Man, I really, really love Cerulean Seas. After I finished the core book I immediately added parts of it to my own campaign setting. The oceans of my world really needed some detail, and using Cerulean Seas just feels right.

Not only did Cerulean Seas actually break me out of my "no 3pp materials" shell, it actually is partly responsible for getting me the gig writing the Akashic Mysteries line for Dreamscarred Press. I really liked Magic of Incarnum in 3.5 and thought that it was a thematically perfect match for aquatic adventures where spellbooks and components didn't make as much sense, so I did a bunch of conversion work to bring MoI over to Pathfinder. A lot of that work was then converted again when I started talking to Andreas over at DSP. Seadrake's Talons and Whirlpool Lash were actually taken from my original conversion work almost whole cloth, though Whirlpool Lash used to disorient instead of tripping opponents. My class the Daevic also uses a lot of pieces that used to be part of my homebrew Incarnum class, the Reaver. A joint project between Alluria Press and Dreamscarred Press combining their setting and my subsystem has been something I've been hoping to get a chance to look into for a while :)

...

Now I really want to start a new Cerulean Seas campaign.

[Palanan]

As a completely naive question...is this available in hardback? I can find the PDF from Paizo, but nothing book-like that I can see.

This has better reviews than any oceanic setting I've ever come across, and I'm keenly interested.

[EisenKreutzer]

As a completely naive question...is this available in hardback? I can find the PDF from Paizo, but nothing book-like that I can see.

This has better reviews than any oceanic setting I've ever come across, and I'm keenly interested.

It most certainly is! (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/86538/Cerulean-Seas-Campaign-Setting?term=cerulean+seas)

[Ssalarn]

It most certainly is! (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/86538/Cerulean-Seas-Campaign-Setting?term=cerulean+seas)

I had to have this in hardback as well. The art is just too pretty and I want to share it just too much to only have the .pdf.

[EisenKreutzer]

It is a beautiful book, and the hardcover book is going to be my next purchase. A nice little christmas gift for myself. :smallbiggrin: