Mailman spells. (What to pick)

[D4rkh0rus]

Given that a common sorcerer has only so many spells known, making a mailman, means that you wont be having tons of different damage spells.

That often leads to wanting to focus on a few, strong, spells. Something of the Arcane Thesis type of focus.

Given the Incantatrix, and practical metamagic, its possible to stack tons of metamagic on top of a Thesis spell without changing its level, or by a minuscule amount (+1 or +2)

But, Is Arcane Thesis worth the feat for 1 spell? Which spells are good candidates? To what I've seen, Combust, Wings of flurry, Enervation, Orb spells and Disintegrate are some of the better candidates.

this question gets into the main topic, and question.

What are the "powerful" picks for a mailman. As in, what spells have damage potential without allowing reflex saves for half damage and possibly disallowing spell resistance?

which ones would be worth putting Arcane Thesis on? Also, would having a second spell with Arcane Thesis be a boon, or would it be detrimental?


thanks for reading :P

[Vaz]

Mailman works with Orb of Fire, as a result of metamagic able to turn that fire damage into unresistable damage.

Anything you can do to give a spell the fire energy descriptor works with mailman.

[D4rkh0rus]

Mailman works with Orb of Fire, as a result of metamagic able to turn that fire damage into unresistable damage.

Anything you can do to give a spell the fire energy descriptor works with mailman.

you mean searing spell?

[Vaeldoom]

i second the wings of flurry, being able to effectively do 144d6 of damage with 4 reflex saves in one turn is rather nice.

[D4rkh0rus]

Just to ask around, is there a cold type version of searing spell?

[Vaeldoom]

Just to ask around, is there a cold type version of searing spell?

I'll take a look around the books i got to see what i can find, if anything it'll probably be in frostburn

Edit: ok so the Feat piercing cold from frostburn on page 49 i believe is a lot like searing spell but for cold descriptor spells. hope this helps

[Red Fel]

Just to ask around, is there a cold type version of searing spell?

Piercing Cold, Frostburn, +1 spell level.

[eggynack]

Orb of fire is a classic for a reason. Good damage, incredibly difficult to resist, and with a solid rider effect. By contrast, wings of flurry has that problematic reflex save, enervation suffers due to the higher number of immune creatures, combust has a problematic range, and disintegrate is too high level. Those are all solid options, but I think orb might just be the best.

[Kane0]

The reason you'd want Orb of Fire though is because it dazes as a bonus. If you take searing spell you may as well pickup the standard scorching ray, since its very good with metamagic abuse.

Other good spells to grab:
Magic Missile: 1st level autohit force damage, prime target for metamagic abuse. Fell X especially
Lesser orb of X: not as good as the 4th level versions, but 1st level spells can hold up to more metamagic abuse.
Seeking Ray: You pretty much cant miss, and makes a great starter for other rays like enervation. Also can be used with energy substitution and searing spell if you want to trick out its damage, but the damage isnt really the selling point past the first couple levels you have it for.
Ray of Ice: Also low level, and targets reflex, but even if they save they eat a debuff.
Manyjaws: 3rd level, Force damage and arguably better than Fireball because it is selective on targets without the use of selective spell, but allows a reflex save. Also works with extend spell.
Melf's Unicorn Arrow: Sounds goofy, but its decent damage and allows free bullrushes. Also you get more as you level ALA scorching ray.

I know i've missed quite a few, but I'm only listing low level spells off the top off my head. Generally speaking you won't want to go past level 6 spells for blasting since they arent that much of an improvement (look at examples like chain lightning and disintegrate, those are about the best you can get aside from really high level spells like horrid wilting) and suck up a lot of spell levels you could be using for metamagic shenanigans.

Really you should only need 4 or so blasts, all your other spells can be utility, defense, BFC, summons, etc. And don't forget metamagic rods, knowstones and consumables like scrolls, they'll really help you out with spells and metamagic.

And if nothing really catches your fancy, ask your DM about inventing a spell that works for you. You are a sorcerer after all, naturally mastering magic and bending it to your will is what you do.

Edit: For a single target, orb of fire is very hard to pass up. For multiple targets wings of flurry, manyjaws, tricked out scorching rays, etc are the way to go. Enervate is a fantastic debuff as always, especially for landing spells that require saves to deliver their best effects/damage (disintegrate, wings of flurry, etc).

For the record, i've always found the idea of metamagicing Burning Hands out the wazoo to be pretty amusing. I'd call it Wave of Flames. Then again i'd do the same thing with Manyjaws and call it Summon Buzzsaw swarm.

[Phelix-Mu]

Actually, I don't believe Piercing Cold and Searing Spell do the same thing. My recollection is that only Searing Spell includes the bit about overcoming the appropriate immunity, but I could be wrong (super rusty atm).

[eggynack]

Actually, I don't believe Piercing Cold and Searing Spell do the same thing. My recollection is that only Searing Spell includes the bit about overcoming the appropriate immunity, but I could be wrong (super rusty atm).
Close. Piercing cold bypasses immunity just fine. What it has problems with is the cold subtype. I think that's the difference between the two.

[Red Fel]

Close. Piercing cold bypasses immunity just fine. What it has problems with is the cold subtype. I think that's the difference between the two.

Yeah. The distinction is that Piercing Cold does nothing to things with the cold subtype. Searing Spell damages fire-subtype creatures just fine.

Other than that, it's the usual - ignores resistance, immune take half damage, vulnerable take double damage, +1 spell level.

[TheCrowing1432]

Chain lighting can be fun

[D4rkh0rus]

Chain lighting can be fun

the problem is the Reflex for half damage, that means that Evasion more or less negates all its damage.

[Necroticplague]

Arcane Thesis+Incantatrix can turn Split Ray into a +0. So with a nice application of Rapid Metamagic feat, you can turn one ray spell into an infinite number of such at everyone within 30 feet of the main target.Disintegrate against those without Magic Immunity (everyone rolls a 1 eventually).Only golems and one or two others should be left standing. And for those, pick up Arcane Fusion and Sanctum Spell, shove a Sanctum Arcane Fusion+Acid Splash into it, and keep looping it around until it dies. For whatever creatures have SR:yes, immune to negative levels, and immune to acid, use Energy Admixture Acid Splash (still technically a cantrip as far as Arcane Fusion is concerned) instead.

So in summary from that block:
Disintegrate
Arcane Fusion
Acid Splash

For the spell spells and:
Energy Admixture (Acid)
Sanctum Spell
Arcane Thesis (Disintegrate)
Energy Substitution
Rapid Metamagic
Split Ray

for the feats.


Side note:Wow, bending the rules over your knees for mailman shenanigans is feat-intensive.

[TheCrowing1432]

the problem is the Reflex for half damage, that means that Evasion more or less negates all its damage.

Oh yeah, Hmm.

Rays might be the best bet then.

Touch AC is usually low on a lot of things

[eggynack]

Touch AC is usually low on a lot of things
That it is, and it actually reverse-scales with CR on monsters.

[D4rkh0rus]

Arcane Thesis+Incantatrix can turn Split Ray into a +0. So with a nice application of Rapid Metamagic feat, you can turn one ray spell into an infinite number of such at everyone within 30 feet of the main target.Disintegrate against those without Magic Immunity (everyone rolls a 1 eventually).Only golems and one or two others should be left standing. And for those, pick up Arcane Fusion and Sanctum Spell, shove a Sanctum Arcane Fusion+Acid Splash into it, and keep looping it around until it dies. For whatever creatures have SR:yes, immune to negative levels, and immune to acid, use Energy Admixture Acid Splash (still technically a cantrip as far as Arcane Fusion is concerned) instead.

So in summary from that block:
Disintegrate
Arcane Fusion
Acid Splash

For the spell spells and:
Energy Admixture (Acid)
Sanctum Spell
Arcane Thesis (Disintegrate)
Energy Substitution
Rapid Metamagic
Split Ray

for the feats.


Side note:Wow, bending the rules over your knees for mailman shenanigans is feat-intensive.

2 Things I noticed.

1 - From what I gather, you can only apply a metamagic feat to a spell once (per meta feat, so like split ray only once, empower only once, maximize only once, etc per spell cast) so, you wouldn't be able to create infinite rays.

2 - I play on a High OP table, but sadly, not a TO one (I always wanted to play a campaign where 4 players play pun-pun, omnificer, twice betrayer of sharn and d2 crusader, but alas). so, the arcane fusion shenanigans wouldn't fly, I'd take sanctum to get into incantatrix earlier, but on actually using it with arcane fusion... well... I don't like it when the DM casts Literary Misile, it doesn't allow reflex saves.

[TheCrowing1432]

That it is, and it actually reverse-scales with CR on monsters.

Ive trivilized encounters as my Dread Necromancer by Harming everything in my path and then having my minions beat him up if he lived.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

The main difficulty with orbs are PC-type characters. Casters with advanced intel on the party can throw up Ray Deflection, or worse, Friendly Fire. Some can be effectively immune to damage without a potent dispel. Certain CHA-to-evertying and CON-to-everything builds have very high touch AC as well. I once played a sneaky spellwarp sniper who was trying to stop a (temporarily, long story) evil PC from from slaughtering a village full of innocents with Spellwarped Frost Breath. Normally, targeting flatfooted touch AC is pretty easy, but he had his in the high 30s. Good luck dazing that!

This is why I prefer a combination of Arcane Fusion - without infinite loops, jeez - and Hail of Stone spamming. It can cost you a pretty penny, and it will take a while to chip through HP with such a low damage base, but Mailmen abuse action economy and metamagic enough where it should work, and there is very little defense against HoS.

Still thesis Orb of Fire - just have HoS as a backup. And Great Dispel Magic, of course.