Kraken
2014-11-06, 06:13 PM
Rather than get sidetracked in Great Republic ("]this thread[/URL] I made a new one to fully expand on my plans for the ship itself.
I'm wanting to build a weaponized version of the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Republic) in a Skulls and Shackles campaign. I haven't talked it over with my DM, and I wanted to be organized about it so that he doesn't need to do all the research to see how it'd work. Many great points were brought up in the previous thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?381877-Program-to-make-a-deck-layout-for-a-ship-(Skulls-and-Shackles)&p=18365283) (I made a new one as the search for software was more the focus of that one), and I'm interested in working through them to come up with the best plan(s) that I can. But before I do, I must emphasize that I don't expect to do this in one session or before hitting level 5. This is a long term project, but I want to get it underway as soon as I can, because ships take a very long time to build. But more importantly, this is a campaign in progress, and I am a player. If you've played this campaign before, please endeavor to avoid spoilers. To that end, I suppose it'd be best for me to lay out what I know and have in game.
-I'm a the captain, and a cleric1/wiz2/theurge1. I have good (but not gamebreaking) bluff, sense motive, diplomacy, and intimidate skills. I have +12 for my profession (sailor) checks, and might be able to finagle +14 via masterwork tools (sextant, compass, etc.). For the purposes of planning and building, I should be able to reliably hit 30 on knowledge (architecture and engineering) and craft (shipwright) checks, by taking 20 and 10 on these skills, respectively. The party also includes a witch, whose skills aren't well known by me currently, and a mysterious stranger gunslinger who will be able to make cannons, and also has decent social skills. The rest of the party (bruisers of various stripes) have no relevant skills as far as I know, other than being able to crack a whip.
-We just took over the Man's Promise in a mutiny, and it's barely armed (still unclear on our exact weaponry). It's about 100' long on the deck with a 30' beam. Including the PC's, we've got around 17-18 people to operate the ship for now. All are there willingly, and the only NPC that sticks out as being potentially useful is a level 3 cleric of Besmara. We haven't set sail from being shipwrecked yet, though are most likely going somewhere to get the ship refitted. This, and hopefully more captured vessels to come, will serve as escorts in the future. These vessels will almost certainly be upgunned after being captured, especially if they were previously merchant vessels.
-Wikipedia states that the Great Republic required approximately triple the materials of a typical clipper. A 100'-130'~ warship in Pathfinder has a market price of 25,000 GP. By my reckoning, that'd make the market price for a Great Republic sized vessel 75,000 GP. The Pathfinder craft rules state that the raw material cost is a third of the market price, 25,000 GP in this case. However, this cost basically doesn't include weapons. The raw material cost for cannons is substantial, I'm very interested in ways that I might be able to get the cost of cannons down in particular.
-As far as an 'over-the-counter' type transaction, I'm limited in my ability to contract shipyards by the fact that I'm a pirate. This is why my first instinct was to build the ship myself. Utilizing existing facilities would of course make life easier, but I'm unsure how I could either take over a shipyard long enough to complete the project - and any shipyard that I could feasibly take over for the length of the project would probably require substantial expansion anyway, to accommodate the enormous hull. The other option is tricking a legitimate shipyard by posing as a legitimate buyer - easier, but also riskier in terms of the entities that it could anger, though this is total speculation on my part. I could mitigate the risk by purchasing it as a merchant vessel, then adding the gun ports after the ship is built. All options have substantial risks associated with them, I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts.
-I hope to acquire the crew over the course of the ship's construction the same way that *I* and others have been acquired as a crew members initially in the campaign: capturing them. Though gentler methods (IE, diplomacy) will also be employed while we're in port and can potentially pick up willing recruits, too. I haven't done the math on required crew yet as I'm also not sure on how the ship will be armed due to how expensive cannons are, however it's worth noting that Pathfinder's rules are very generous regarding cannon and vehicle operation. For instance, it only takes 2 men to operate a small cannon, and 3 men to operate a large cannon, firing every other round. Also, the ship probably won't be done before level 7, so by the time it's done, I'll have access to skeleton crew (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/skeleton-crew), which hopefully will take care of a chunk of non-weapon crew tasks.
-I might take vile leadership (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/vile-leadership), just so I can take our NPC cleric as a cohort, and be sure she gets to level 5, so that she can cast skeleton crew as well. The higher level followers from leadership would be a good source of skilled low level officers, too. Leadership on its own is an insufficient source of crew, of course, which is why I might not end up taking it. If there is a way I can get 1,000 or so followers without dropping caster levels, though, then I'd definitely take it - as long as there's a magic item somewhere that grants +3 to the score, I could probably get a leadership of 25 by level 7, due to how easy vile leadership is to optimize by punishing minions.
I'm wanting to build a weaponized version of the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Republic) in a Skulls and Shackles campaign. I haven't talked it over with my DM, and I wanted to be organized about it so that he doesn't need to do all the research to see how it'd work. Many great points were brought up in the previous thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?381877-Program-to-make-a-deck-layout-for-a-ship-(Skulls-and-Shackles)&p=18365283) (I made a new one as the search for software was more the focus of that one), and I'm interested in working through them to come up with the best plan(s) that I can. But before I do, I must emphasize that I don't expect to do this in one session or before hitting level 5. This is a long term project, but I want to get it underway as soon as I can, because ships take a very long time to build. But more importantly, this is a campaign in progress, and I am a player. If you've played this campaign before, please endeavor to avoid spoilers. To that end, I suppose it'd be best for me to lay out what I know and have in game.
-I'm a the captain, and a cleric1/wiz2/theurge1. I have good (but not gamebreaking) bluff, sense motive, diplomacy, and intimidate skills. I have +12 for my profession (sailor) checks, and might be able to finagle +14 via masterwork tools (sextant, compass, etc.). For the purposes of planning and building, I should be able to reliably hit 30 on knowledge (architecture and engineering) and craft (shipwright) checks, by taking 20 and 10 on these skills, respectively. The party also includes a witch, whose skills aren't well known by me currently, and a mysterious stranger gunslinger who will be able to make cannons, and also has decent social skills. The rest of the party (bruisers of various stripes) have no relevant skills as far as I know, other than being able to crack a whip.
-We just took over the Man's Promise in a mutiny, and it's barely armed (still unclear on our exact weaponry). It's about 100' long on the deck with a 30' beam. Including the PC's, we've got around 17-18 people to operate the ship for now. All are there willingly, and the only NPC that sticks out as being potentially useful is a level 3 cleric of Besmara. We haven't set sail from being shipwrecked yet, though are most likely going somewhere to get the ship refitted. This, and hopefully more captured vessels to come, will serve as escorts in the future. These vessels will almost certainly be upgunned after being captured, especially if they were previously merchant vessels.
-Wikipedia states that the Great Republic required approximately triple the materials of a typical clipper. A 100'-130'~ warship in Pathfinder has a market price of 25,000 GP. By my reckoning, that'd make the market price for a Great Republic sized vessel 75,000 GP. The Pathfinder craft rules state that the raw material cost is a third of the market price, 25,000 GP in this case. However, this cost basically doesn't include weapons. The raw material cost for cannons is substantial, I'm very interested in ways that I might be able to get the cost of cannons down in particular.
-As far as an 'over-the-counter' type transaction, I'm limited in my ability to contract shipyards by the fact that I'm a pirate. This is why my first instinct was to build the ship myself. Utilizing existing facilities would of course make life easier, but I'm unsure how I could either take over a shipyard long enough to complete the project - and any shipyard that I could feasibly take over for the length of the project would probably require substantial expansion anyway, to accommodate the enormous hull. The other option is tricking a legitimate shipyard by posing as a legitimate buyer - easier, but also riskier in terms of the entities that it could anger, though this is total speculation on my part. I could mitigate the risk by purchasing it as a merchant vessel, then adding the gun ports after the ship is built. All options have substantial risks associated with them, I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts.
-I hope to acquire the crew over the course of the ship's construction the same way that *I* and others have been acquired as a crew members initially in the campaign: capturing them. Though gentler methods (IE, diplomacy) will also be employed while we're in port and can potentially pick up willing recruits, too. I haven't done the math on required crew yet as I'm also not sure on how the ship will be armed due to how expensive cannons are, however it's worth noting that Pathfinder's rules are very generous regarding cannon and vehicle operation. For instance, it only takes 2 men to operate a small cannon, and 3 men to operate a large cannon, firing every other round. Also, the ship probably won't be done before level 7, so by the time it's done, I'll have access to skeleton crew (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/skeleton-crew), which hopefully will take care of a chunk of non-weapon crew tasks.
-I might take vile leadership (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/vile-leadership), just so I can take our NPC cleric as a cohort, and be sure she gets to level 5, so that she can cast skeleton crew as well. The higher level followers from leadership would be a good source of skilled low level officers, too. Leadership on its own is an insufficient source of crew, of course, which is why I might not end up taking it. If there is a way I can get 1,000 or so followers without dropping caster levels, though, then I'd definitely take it - as long as there's a magic item somewhere that grants +3 to the score, I could probably get a leadership of 25 by level 7, due to how easy vile leadership is to optimize by punishing minions.