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Sindeloke
2014-11-07, 12:57 AM
I like the simplicity of 5e for the most part, but I feel the weapon table is really, really lacking. I already felt third edition had too little distinction between weapon types, but 5e strips the last vestiges of variety away and leaves us with basically 1d8 vs 1d12. Meanwhile, different evocation damage types remain distinct and interesting between enemy vulnerabilities and different rider effects. The only exception is polearms, and that's because Polearm Mastery gives them unique choices. So, obvious solution: feats for other weapon types.

This works particularly well if you plan to use the old UA Weapon Group Proficiency thing in your games, which I always have, or add in old-school weapons like chains and war picks, which I have, or distinguish between nunchaku (works like a flail, not a stick) and clubs (is a stick), which I have. As a result I haven't spelled out explicitly which weapons each feat applies to, in favor of using the simpler weapon group listing instead. I figure most are self-evident and it's not too hard to port forward from the 3.5 SRD where you have to.

AXE MASTERY
Prerequisite: Str 13
You can leverage the momentum and sweeping arcs of an axe. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Axes group:

When you miss an enemy with an axe, you may attack an adjacent enemy within your reach with the same weapon as a bonus action.
When you score a critical hit with an axe, you may roll one extra damage die.

CLUB AND MACE MASTERY
Prerequisite: Str 13
You can crush and knock back your enemies with the great weight of your blows. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Clubs and Maces group:

If you successfully strike a creature with a club or mace, you may attempt to shove it 5 feet as a bonus action.
When you score a critical hit with a club or mace, you may roll one extra damage die.

FLAIL AND CHAIN MASTERY
Prerequisite: Dex 13
You take advantage of the unpredictable swings and entangling properties of chain weapons. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Flails and Chains group:

If you successfully strike a creature with a chain or flail, you may attempt to trap it in a grapple as a bonus action.
When you attack a creature that is using a shield, you may ignore an amount of its armor class equal to 1/2 your proficiency bonus. You can't ignore more AC in this way than your target gains from its shield.

HAMMER AND PICK MASTERY
Prerequisite: Str 13
You've mastered the hooking sweep and armor-cracking precision strikes available to warhammers and picks. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Hammers and Picks group:

If you successfully strike a creature with a hammer or pick, you may attempt to pull it prone as a bonus action.
When you attack a creature that has natural armor or is wearing manufactured armor, you may ignore an amount of its armor class equal to 1/2 your proficiency bonus. You can't ignore more AC in this way than your target gains from its armor.

HEAVY BLADE MASTERY
Prerequisite: Str 13
You capitalize on the accuracy and flexibility of heavy blades. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Heavy Blades group:

You may attempt to daze an enemy with the pommel of your blade. Make an attack as a bonus action. On a hit, you deal damage equal to your Strength modifier, and your target cannot take reactions until the end of your next turn.
When you make an attack with a heavy blade, you score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.

LIGHT BLADE MASTERY
Prerequisite: Dex 13
You capitalize on the speed and finesse of light blades. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Light Blades group:

You may attempt to feint your enemy as a bonus action. Make an attack with your light blade. If your target's Wisdom (Insight) check doesn't beat your attack roll, you have advantage on your next attack against that creature.
When you attack with a light blade, you score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.


And there we go. I'd probably put a Str requirement on polearm mastery too, just for consistency, but I think that covers all the major weapons except falx/falchion/scimitar. I'd give them some kind of bonus when mounted, probably, historically that's the point of curved blades like that.

My feeling is that Heavy Blades is probably too strong (maybe needs a save on the daze effect?), ignoring up to +3 armor, even situationally, is probably too strong (no idea what to do about that), and Light Blade is still too attractive to non-rogues (given part of my design goal was to subtly discourage everyone and their mother going Rapier/Shield), but I welcome input either way.

Arracor
2015-02-18, 01:44 AM
I very much like these feats. I would strongly encourage you to revise and finalize their design. Towards that end, my comments on them:

Everything up to Hammer/Pick: Balanced just fine, no adjustments required.

Hammer/Pick: Dear god. So every round you can knock something Prone? Even if it's contested, that seems a little powerful. Add to that the passive armor ignoring and I'd say this is all-around -too powerful-. The Chain ignore is okay because it's limited to shields, but this affects too much stuff. I would honestly just stick with the Club/Mace feat for hammers, and fold Picks in with Axes to make it a double like most of the rest.

Heavy Blade: Definitely just add a DC. A nice Fort save vs the attack roll, and just make the damage part of the saved-against effect?

Light Blade: Perhaps what you could do is, rather than increasing the crit chance, replace that with the ability to use your reaction for an AC bonus of half your Proficiency against a melee attack directed against you? Deflection, basically. Flavorful, and still pretty valuable, but it's not the simple damage hike a crit-seeker would want. Light weapons have always felt like a penalty of being a lesser melee class, to me, but this makes them interesting in their own right.

CrusaderJoe
2015-02-18, 06:41 PM
In all honesty these sound like good class features rather than feats. Throw these on the champion fighter and you have yourself a real subclass.

Or just use ToB type system.

Have them be Athletics versus Athletics or Acrobatics

It's not that they are bad feats, but I see them as class features.

Also, what does Daze do? I don't think it is in 5e.

Arracor
2015-02-18, 07:08 PM
Hmm, that's right. There's no Dazed anymore. Perhaps instead, if they fail the save they have Disadvantage on attack rolls for the next round, and can't take reactions? That seems strong enough for a feat, when taken with the crit bonus.

Sindeloke
2015-02-26, 07:19 PM
I wasn't really using dazed as a specific condition, just a term in 5e's so-called "conversational style" to indicate that you're knocking them silly before describing the actual mechanical result.


In all honesty these sound like good class features rather than feats. Throw these on the champion fighter and you have yourself a real subclass.

Or just use ToB type system.

I actually have been leaning heavily toward removing Polearm Mastery entirely and making it, and all of these homebrew effects as well, just inherent properties of weapons that are gained at different levels of proficiency (sort of like Djinn_in_Tonic is doing here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?398481-Gathering-Thoughts-for-a-Project-New-D-amp-D-Weapon-Mechanics-%28Edition-Uncertain%29)). I don't like how stark the difference is in performance between a martial character with feats and a martial character without one; feats should be for giving you new options outside your normal class focus, not making you good at what you're supposed to be good at anyway.

The main problem either way that's been bugging me is that most of them are just things you'd always do. How often is a fighter not going to take his bonus attack from polearm mastery, or his bonus debuff from heavy blades? I'm considering maybe tying some of the effects to d20 results, like crits or the old 3.5 flind bar - roll a 19 or 20 when attacking, and make a free disarm attempt or something. IDK. It could certainly make the prone less potent, since you're right, Arracor, that's pretty excessive. I also like the light blade deflection, definitely using that.

Bharaeth
2015-02-27, 10:01 AM
I had been working on some feats too, aimed at addressing the problems the OP highlighted. I feel like Sindaloke's ones are neater and less finicky, but what do people think?:

BATTLE HARDENED
Prerequisite: Character level 5 or higher

Your reflexes have been honed by years of conflict, and you don't scare or go down easily. You gain the following benefits:

You gain a +2 bonus to initiative.
When you are required to make a saving throw or check to avoid being frightened, gain a bonus to the roll equal to your proficiency bonus.
When required to make a death saving throw, you only die if you fail your fourth save, rather than your third.



FLAIL EXPERT
Prerequisite: Proficiency with martial weapons, Dexterity 13 or higher

You've mastered exotic lashing weapons, and can easily ensnare a foe, or spin an impenetrable web of steel that punishes foes who get too close, though you can't keep it up for long. You gain the following benefits:

When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try and grapple a creature within reach with your flail, chain or whip. Until the creature escapes the grapple, it is restrained, and you can't attack again with this weapon.
If using a whip, you can use a bonus action on your turn to interact with an object within the whip's reach (yanking open an unlocked door, or pulling a lever, for example).
On your turn, when you are wielding a flail, chain or nunchuka, you can use your action to adopt a web of steel stance, striking any who get too close. Similiar to some spells, maintaining this feature requires concentration (lasting up to 1 minute), but it also fails if you become prone or restrained, or if you are involved in a successful grapple. Whilst maintained, your movement is halved, but you gain partial cover against weapon attacks, and any time a creature enters your reach or starts its turn there, it must make a Dexterity saving throw (the DC is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your choice of Strength or Dexterity modifier). On a failed save, then you hit it with a melee weapon attack. Once you use this feature, you must finish a long rest before you can use it again.



MASTER SWORDSMAN
Prerequisite: Proficiency with martial weapons, Strength 13 or higher


In your hands, a sword is a truly versatile and defensive weapon. You gain the following benefits:
If wielding either a greatsword or longsword, you can use an action on your turn to adopt a semi-defensive posture. You can make one melee weapon attack this turn with disadvantage, and melee weapon attacks against you also suffer disadvantage. This lasts until the beginning of your next turn.
You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of a longsword used one-handed, and you can also use a longsword one-handed to deal Sneak Attack damage.
If you are wielding either a greatsword, longsword or shortsword and take the Attack action on your turn, one of your attacks this turn can deliver your choice of either slashing or piercing damage.
On your turn, if you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack using either a greatsword or longsword, you can choose to impale the creature. While impaled, the target is effectively grappled, and you can't attack again with this weapon until the grapple ends.


KNIFE DANCER
Prerequisite: Dexterity 13 or higher

Somewhere in your life, you got very handy with a knife, and can pull off a variety of dirty tricks. You gain the following benefits:

If you take the Attack action on your turn to throw a dagger, you can draw and throw two daggers as part of one attack. Both of these attacks must be at targets within short range.
If you make a melee weapon attack using either a dagger or a sickle and either have advantage on the attack roll, or you or the creature you are attacking are grappled, or you are swallowed by the creature you are attacking, you can roll an extra 1d4 and add the result to the damage.
If you score a critical hit with a melee weapon attack using a dagger, you can add double your ability modifier to the damage roll, rather than once as normal.


AXE MASTER
Prerequisite: Proficiency with martial weapons, Strength 13 or higher

You have mastered the demanding momentum of a swung axe to wreak terrifying bloody carnage, and have learnt how best to hurl a throwing axe to bounce unpredictably towards the foe as part of a charge. You gain the following benefits:

If you make a melee weapon attack with either a handaxe, battleaxe, or greataxe and hit, gain a bonus of +1 to the damage roll.
If you move at least 10 feet towards a creature in a turn that you take the Attack action, you can use a bonus action on your turn to throw a handaxe at a creature, gaining advantage on the roll. As part of the bonus action, you can also draw another weapon.
On your turn, when you score a critical hit against a creature using either a handaxe, battleaxe, or greataxe in melee, or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can use a reaction to make a Charisma (Intimidation) check, contested by the Wisdom of one or more creatures that can see or hear you within 30'. If you succeed, the creature is frightened during its next turn.


BRUTISH BLUDGEONER
Prerequisite: Proficiency with martial weapons, Strength 13 or higher

You've mastered blunt instruments so that your blows can break through armour, send foes flying, and hammer your way relentlessly through the scenery. You gain the following benefits:

If you make a melee weapon attack with either a mace, maul, morningstar, warpick or warhammer against a creature wearing medium or heavy armour, or a creature with thick natural armour (like a dragon's scales, or a giant scorpion's exoskeleton), gain a bonus of +2 to the damage roll.
On your turn, if you score a critical hit against a creature using either a club, greatclub, light hammer, mace, maul, quarterstaff, morningstar or warhammer in melee, you can use your reaction to push it 5', providing that the creature is no more than one size larger than you.
If you are wielding either a light hammer, mace, maul, morningstar, warpick or warhammer, you can use your action to strike an inanimate object and inflict double damage (doubling both the results of the damage roll and the ability modifier).



PHALANX FIGHTER
Prerequisite: Strength 13 or higher

Probably through a background in the infantry, you are competent with hafted weapons, knowing best how to use their reach, and feel strongest when fighting in a formation of sorts. You gain the following benefits:

Once per turn, if you are wielding either a javelin, spear or pike, you can deal an additional 1d6 damage to a creature you hit with a weapon attack, if you are within 5 feet of an ally that isn't incapacitated.
If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can choose to take a -2 penalty to your attack roll to give your weapon the reach property for this attack, when wielding either a quarterstaff, spear, or trident.
If you are required to make a saving throw or check to avoid being frightened and you are within 5 feet of an ally that isn't incapacitated, you can choose to reroll the save, but must use the second result if you do so.


ALCHEMIST
Prerequisite: Proficiency with alchemists's supplies

You have spent many a long night messing around with weird mixtures and alchemical glassware, concocting potent brews with practiced efficiency, and have even got pretty good at dodging the odd explosion when things go wrong! You gain the following benefits:

When crafting chemical-based equipment (including acid, alchemist's fire, alcohol, antitoxin, ink, poison and potions of healing), you can craft items with a total market value not exceeding 25gp per day.
Poisons you craft add your proficiency bonus to the DC and the poison damage inflicted.
If you can craft potions of healing, you can also craft potions of greater healing.
If you are subjected to an area effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to reduce the damage you suffer, gain advantage on the roll.


DRAGON SLAYER
Prerequisite: You must have fought a dragon

Perhaps foolishly, you have dedicated your life to hunting down these winged monsters, knowing well how to turn their strengths against them, and can quickly work out their weak points. You gain the following benefits:

On your turn, you can use a bonus action to study the movement and strategies of a dragon, dracolich, or a beast or monstrosity of large size or greater; the creature must not be incapacitated. Make a Wisdom (Insight or Perception, your choice) check against DC 15. If you succeed, any future weapon attack you make against the creature scores a critical hit on a 19 or 20 (or on a roll of 18-20, if you have the Improved Critical feature).
When making an attack against a dragon, you can treat any damage immunity it might have as damage resistance instead.
You can add your proficiency bonus to any Intelligence or Wisdom check related to dragons.
If you are required to make a saving throw against the Frightful Presence or breath weapon of a dragon, you can add your proficiency bonus to the roll. If you already have proficiency in this save, then add double your proficiency.


GLIB TONGUE

Yours is the face that suckers like to trust, and you have a pretty way with words; you've probably sold someone a bridge, and you might do it again. You gain the following benefits:

Increase your Charisma score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
You reduce the cost of equipment purchased after character generation by 20%. This only applies to smaller purchases, worth a standard market value of 100gp or less.
On your turn, you can use your action to thoroughly distract a creature you can see within 60 feet that can hear you. Provided that you or your companions aren't fighting the creature, make a Charisma (Deception) check, contested by the Wisdom (Insight) of the creature. If you succeed, the target has disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks made to perceive any creature or unusual occurrence, other than you, for up to 1 minute. This effect ends if you are incapacitated or can no longer speak.


STRONG ARM
Prerequisite: Strength 13 or higher

You have built up a solid musculature, with a powerful throw, and the ability to overdraw a bow to the breaking point. You gain the following benefits:

Increase your Strength score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
When making a ranged weapon attack with a thrown weapon that isn't a net, add 30 feet to the long range.
If you take the Attack action on your turn to fire either a longbow, or to throw a weapon which inflicts 1d6 or more damage, an attack that hits also pushes the creature 5'. The push effect only effects creatures of your size or smaller.
When you make a Strength check or saving throw to break restraints, damage an object, arm wrestle, or a similar feat of muscle power, gain advantage on the roll.

Admiral Squish
2015-02-27, 10:26 AM
I really like these ideas! Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to get into 5e yet, but I may steal some of these ideas for a melee class I'm working on.

Strill
2015-03-01, 01:25 PM
AXE MASTERY
Prerequisite: Str 13
You can leverage the momentum and sweeping arcs of an axe. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Axes group:

When you miss an enemy with an axe, you may attack an adjacent enemy within your reach with the same weapon as a bonus action.
When you score a critical hit with an axe, you may roll one extra damage die.Very weak. The crit damage is negligible, and the first ability is very niche. Not only does it get worse as you get better, but you have to be in range of two enemies at once to be able to use it at all. I would either add +1 STR to this feat, or add an extra feature or two.


CLUB AND MACE MASTERY
Prerequisite: Str 13
You can crush and knock back your enemies with the great weight of your blows. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Clubs and Maces group:

If you successfully strike a creature with a club or mace, you may attempt to shove it 5 feet as a bonus action.
When you score a critical hit with a club or mace, you may roll one extra damage die.This is Shield Mastery, except way more limited. Needs a buff. Again, the crit damage bonus is negligible.


FLAIL AND CHAIN MASTERY
Prerequisite: Dex 13
You take advantage of the unpredictable swings and entangling properties of chain weapons. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Flails and Chains group:

If you successfully strike a creature with a chain or flail, you may attempt to trap it in a grapple as a bonus action.
When you attack a creature that is using a shield, you may ignore an amount of its armor class equal to 1/2 your proficiency bonus. You can't ignore more AC in this way than your target gains from its shield.Add another bullet point that says you can grapple with the same hand you're holding your flail with.

As for the armor ignoring, it goes against 5e's design themes. Typically situational bonuses and penalties take the form of advantage/disadvantage so you don't have to go around calculating a hundred little plus ones and minus ones. Also, it doesn't say whether to round up or down. IMO it would be better to just say that you ignore your opponent's shield, rather than go through all the hullaballoo of calculating half your proficiency and comparing it to your opponent's shield. Sure it will be stronger, but not many enemies will use shields anyway, so it's a niche perk to begin with. It can stand being powerful when it does come up.

Overall, I'd say this one is still a teeny bit on the weak side. Having to land your hit in order to get your bonus action makes it a bit weaker than it could be IMO. It could still use some sort of additional minor perk to round it out.


HAMMER AND PICK MASTERY
Prerequisite: Str 13
You've mastered the hooking sweep and armor-cracking precision strikes available to warhammers and picks. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Hammers and Picks group:

If you successfully strike a creature with a hammer or pick, you may attempt to pull it prone as a bonus action.
When you attack a creature that has natural armor or is wearing manufactured armor, you may ignore an amount of its armor class equal to 1/2 your proficiency bonus. You can't ignore more AC in this way than your target gains from its armor.
Well now. This one is quite substantial. The prone is still a weaker more limited version of Shield Mastery, but the to-hit bonus is almost universally applicable.


HEAVY BLADE MASTERY
Prerequisite: Str 13
You capitalize on the accuracy and flexibility of heavy blades. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Heavy Blades group:

You may attempt to daze an enemy with the pommel of your blade. Make an attack as a bonus action. On a hit, you deal damage equal to your Strength modifier, and your target cannot take reactions until the end of your next turn.
When you make an attack with a heavy blade, you score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.Pretty solid. Negating an opponent's reaction isn't terribly useful - only 10% of monsters have a reaction other than the default opportunity attack. However, it's still some extra damage every turn, and the crit bonus opens up a lot of potential synergy for crit-focused builds like Paladins.


LIGHT BLADE MASTERY
Prerequisite: Dex 13
You capitalize on the speed and finesse of light blades. You gain the following benefits when wielding a weapon from the Light Blades group:

You may attempt to feint your enemy as a bonus action. Make an attack with your light blade. If your target's Wisdom (Insight) check doesn't beat your attack roll, you have advantage on your next attack against that creature.
When you attack with a light blade, you score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20.The feint is, again, shield mastery, except this time way way more limited. Instead of knocking your target prone, and potentially giving allies advantage on their attacks against it, you only give advantage to a single attack. This one could stand a bigger buff than the others.

Strill
2015-03-01, 01:28 PM
I had been working on some feats too, aimed at addressing the problems the OP highlighted. I feel like Sindaloke's ones are neater and less finicky, but what do people think?:

You should make your own thread for these.

Bharaeth
2015-03-01, 04:20 PM
Okay, will do