3.5 Magic-Psionic Fluff Conversion

[HolyCouncilMagi]

I'm speaking here in terms of the almost-stereotype level of fluff. Also, generally low-op, because the usual worldfluff is entirely different across op-levels and most fantasy (novels, games, movies, and even 3.5 campaign journals alike) just doesn't tend to do things the way anything above low-op D&D works.

Given what Powers they have at their disposal, and pretending/considering the StP Erudite is pretty much nonfunctional because casters don't exist, if you took a generic D&D setting, (complete with the usual heavily romanticized hash of medieval European feel plus the usual magic character tropes like solitary wizards in warded cabins in some places and academies of wizards in others and occasional evil necromancers trying to rule nations tyrannically only to be stopped by ragtag adventurers and all that neat jazz) and got rid of all the arcane and divine casters to be replaced by characters with a Psionic class in the same general role (such as place in society and what they actually, y'know, do, like warding their cabins and gathering in colleges and raising the dead and all), how much would the fluff need to change? Can the Psionic repertoire, not enhanced with spells as powers by way of things like Spell-to-Power Erudite or some Prestige Class or something, generally reasonably do what D&D casters do? You don't need to limit yourself to the closest equivalent; for example, the Divine Mind is basically presented as divine psionics, but if you think that, say, a Wilder suits the role of Cleric better, feel free to put that in instead.

Basically, how close could you reasonably get to the fluff presented in most fantasy with manifesters instead of casters, while still having it make some modicum of sense in-universe? Discuss away!

[Gemini476]

It seems to me that the main issues would be necromancy and healing - psionics has little of the former and lacks a bit of the latter. Unless you're including DSP's stuff.

Other than that, though? There's not a whole lot that wouldn't make it work. You might need to depend on crafting a bit more than usual for big warding effects and "zombies" and whatnot, but that's not particularly off in regards to fluff.

Although do note that the big academies of "wizards" will probably consist mostly of Erudites if you want them to include transactions of magical knowledge and spells, and only Psions and the like if it's more of an X-Men deal where different students have different abilities. Spells Known make a Psion more like a Sorcerer than a Wizard.

Basically, Psionics can work pretty well as a replacement for arcane magic but you'll probably want something like divine magic for raising dead and undead and healing wounds and stuff. Or go with the somewhat more standard fantasy world where healing is hard to get by and death is permanent, I suppose.

Zombies are still an issue. I guess you could just go for Flesh/Bone Golems but that seems kind of boring. Converting a few spells would be really easy, though.
You could also just allow something like a Dress Necromancer, Warlock, or Incarnate to exist alongside Psionics but that's not exactly what you're looking for is it.

[georgie_leech]

Zombies are still an issue. I guess you could just go for Flesh/Bone Golems but that seems kind of boring. Converting a few spells would be really easy, though.
You could also just allow something like a Dress Necromancer, Warlock, or Incarnate to exist alongside Psionics but that's not exactly what you're looking for is it.


:smallbiggrin:
http://www.funelf.net/photos/Awesome-Ghost-Dress.jpg

[Phelix-Mu]

Reminds me of an anime where a character that has problems with names always calls the Necromancer by the name "Neckwaremancer." Funny show.

Anyway, I'd say not much of the fluff would have to change. There are less external buffs in psionics, but given the high ratio of npc population to people with pc classes, the buffing power of clerics usually only works on those they adventure with as opposed to affecting society at large. Curative stuff is a bit problematic, like removing status effects and such, but Healing Touch and Mend Wounds can (Ardent Life mantle) cover much of the hp healing.

Psionics doesn't use much in the way of components or magical words or material components. This might axe certain fluff pertaining to how casters look and can be identified, and how they go about experimenting.

Also, I believe all psionic classes have access to some form of armour proficiency. This likely means that they are a bit more robust at low levels than sorcerers and wizards.

[HolyCouncilMagi]

Also, I believe all psionic classes have access to some form of armour proficiency. This likely means that they are a bit more robust at low levels than sorcerers and wizards.

They don't all have armor proficiency per se, but Manifesting isn't hindered by armor. Still relevant, of course, if it's considered worth spending a feat(s) in that direction.

Thanks for the posts everybody. So healing (in the curing status and removing ability drain sense) and dealing with death-related things is pretty hard, ally-buffing is harder than normal but not quite hard, and the process of warding an area is different, but overall there isn't much fluff change? That's quite interesting. I thought there'd be a bigger gap in what Psionics can do compared to what casting can do.

And yeah, I figure Psions would be more the Sorcerers of the setting while Erudites are more the Wizards. And everybody's just gonna fight over who's the Cleric, because nobody can quite fill that role perfectly. :smalltongue:

[Gemini476]

They don't all have armor proficiency per se, but Manifesting isn't hindered by armor. Still relevant, of course, if it's considered worth spending a feat(s) in that direction.

Thanks for the posts everybody. So healing (in the curing status and removing ability drain sense) and dealing with death-related things is pretty hard, ally-buffing is harder than normal but not quite hard, and the process of warding an area is different, but overall there isn't much fluff change? That's quite interesting. I thought there'd be a bigger gap in what Psionics can do compared to what casting can do.

And yeah, I figure Psions would be more the Sorcerers of the setting while Erudites are more the Wizards. And everybody's just gonna fight over who's the Cleric, because nobody can quite fill that role perfectly. :smalltongue:

Well, I'm told that Dreamscarred Press' Vitalist is quite good at doing the whole healing thing. I'm not too sure how far that extends beyond straight HP damage, though.

There's also the Sangehirn (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625c)prestige class for 3.5, although that's still pretty limited.


Actually, I just remembered something. Psionics are a bit less focused on nature and such, so you're kind of lacking in "druidic" magic. You know, like what Druids and Spirit Shamans and Rangers do. Lots of spells featuring plants and animals and changing the environment.

[Quiddle]

I was going to suggest going to look at the vitalist as well.

[Oracle_of_Void]

Psionic clerics might be a bit strange. Why worship a god to get powers when your own mental discipline does the same thing? Paladins would need tweaking too. Actually, most classes that get partial spell-casting would become a bit strange. A Ranger might be able to pull it off with some morphogenic field nonsense.

[Gemini476]

Psionic clerics might be a bit strange. Why worship a god to get powers when your own mental discipline does the same thing? Paladins would need tweaking too. Actually, most classes that get partial spell-casting would become a bit strange. A Ranger might be able to pull it off with some morphogenic field nonsense.
Only some people actually have psionic powers naturally, so becoming empowered by a god as an Ardent/Divine mind/whatever helps you unlock that even if you hadn't the talent.
Or "Clerics" don't get power from their gods, but worship them anyways for ideological reasons as well as the whole afterlife dealio.

Not to mention how Clerics already get away with worshiping abstract concepts and Paladins just get chosen by Lawful Good to do Lawful and Good things.

As for Rangers, you could probably scrap their spellcasting entirely and just make them into a TWFing archer with a pet and you'd have the exact same flavor. Or maybe replace them with Psychic Warriors, I dunno.

[HolyCouncilMagi]

Well, Rangers do have some ACFs that trade away their spellcasting. Granted, that's their best asset, but in a low-op game, the bonus feats of Champion of the Wild might still be viable, and Complete Champion's spell-less version gives Spell-like Abilities, which could be fine as Psi-Like Abilities.

... Except that, now that I think about it, how does anybody get an animal companion here? That's distressing, and makes the Druid problem even bigger. Man, Druids, not only are you powerful, but it's hard to pretend to be you. Major fluff problem found to be insurmountable at present.

[JusticeZero]

Vitalists and Egoist Psion both make great healers. Apparently the only thing they have trouble with is, mysteriously, blindness - presumably an oversight. DSP is fiddling with psi necro, though you could just - you know, not use undead in a game where the classes that focus on them aren't present.