Sentinel of Bharrai help

[Champion Pickle]

So I've been looking at the sentinel of Bharrai prc recently, and I want to know some good ways to enter it and what you can do with it. I've been trying to find some way to enter it as paladin but the skill requirements make that near impossible. If anybody can help me that'd be great.

[Azurefenrir]

To be honest, Sentinel of Bharrai isn't meant to be a paladin PrC. Of course, you can still enter it with no problems, but the D4 hit dice and the lowest BaB progression will become a problem, while the main benefit of the class - full casting level gain - will not be as significant for you.

However, if you really want to enter it from a paladin base, there are two things that you can do:


Dip one level in a class that has both knowledge skills and spellcraft, then take the able learner feat so that they are effectively class skills from now on. For this purpose, I highly recommend cloistered cleric.
Take both the "Education" feat from Eberron and the "Keeper of Forbidden Lore" feat from the Fiendish Codex I. Keep in mind that you are now descended from an Abyssal (though this doesn't mean you can't be a paladin).


The dip with able learner is my most recommended choice, since you can gain a lot from a single level in cloistered cleric. You can even trade away the knowledge domain for knowledge devotion - clerics get Know: Arcana anyway, and knowledge devotion gives you a free knowledge (Nature), so you'll still meet the end requirements.

You do need to have planned this from the beginning, though (I suggest the Cloistered Cleric dip at level 1). Without some serious shenanigans, you can't really boost your skill points by that much in one or two levels.

[Troacctid]

If you're cool with worshiping Mystra, the Mystic Fire Knight Paladin substitution levels from Champions of Valor gets Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana) as class skills. Then just add Knowledge Devotion (which is a good feat regardless) to get Knowledge (Nature).

[Champion Pickle]

Thanks for the help. If paladin makes for suboptimal entry, then would cleric(or even Druid?) be a better choice with a minimal loss to flavor?

[ranagrande]

Yes. Cleric or Druid would both make superlative Sentinels.

[Baroknik]

You could always ask your DM about using the Prestige Paladin before entry. It's an alternative though, so YMMV.

[Psyren]

Warlock is an interesting entry point for Sentinel of Bear-Eye too, especially if you use Eldritch Claws.

[Champion Pickle]

Warlock is an interesting entry point for Sentinel of Bear-Eye too, especially if you use Eldritch Claws.

Wait, can you use eldritch claws while you're a bear?

[Blackhawk748]

Wait, can you use eldritch claws while you're a bear?

Its an SLA so no somatic, verbal, or material components. So yes a bear with LAZAH CLAWZZZ!!

[Kelb_Panthera]

Unfortunately, warlock invocations, unlike most other SLA's, do actually have simple verbal and somatic components. No laser claw bear.

[Blackhawk748]

Unfortunately, warlock invocations, unlike most other SLA's, do actually have simple verbal and somatic components. No laser claw bear.

So much disappointment :smallfrown:

Wait, isnt there a feat from Savage Species that allows you to substitute verbal and somatic components with simple noises and motions?

[Extra Anchovies]

Unfortunately, warlock invocations, unlike most other SLA's, do actually have simple verbal and somatic components. No laser claw bear.

I'm pretty sure that invocations only have somatic components. Regardless:

The sentinel of Bharrai retains the ability to speak while in bear form and may communicate with other bears.
All you need is the Surrogate Spellcasting feat to let you use somatic components in bear form.

[Champion Pickle]

I have a few more questions. I've been thinking about a build, and after deciding to go with a warlock entry(thanks Psyren!) I need to know some things that could change the build greatly. If I took the skill knowledge feat to get knowledge(nature) on my skill list, could I put points in it that same level? If I got the sacred vow feat at first level, could I then take vow of obedience at first level as a human bonus feat? Last question, it says warlocks gain invocations at every level a prestige class says it advances spellcasting, but is that just how many invocations they know, or do they gain access to higher level invocations as well?

[Amphetryon]

Warlock is an interesting entry point for Sentinel of Bear-Eye too, especially if you use Eldritch Claws.

I used Warlock (without the Eldritch Claws, for reasons Kelb highlights) into SoB back during Test of Spite's run, actually.

[Blackhawk748]

I have a few more questions. I've been thinking about a build, and after deciding to go with a warlock entry(thanks Psyren!) I need to know some things that could change the build greatly. If I took the skill knowledge feat to get knowledge(nature) on my skill list, could I put points in it that same level? If I got the sacred vow feat at first level, could I then take vow of obedience at first level as a human bonus feat? Last question, it says warlocks gain invocations at every level a prestige class says it advances spellcasting, but is that just how many invocations they know, or do they gain access to higher level invocations as well?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. You get more, think of it like a Sorcerer, you get more Spells per Day as well as more spells known, in your case their just called Invocations.

Also i fully support Lazer Claw Bear.

[Petrocorus]

Concerning skills, there is also the Apprentice feat from DMG2.

You can also use the generic classes from UA.

Concerning Eldritch Claws, it's a feat, not a Blast Shape Invocation like Eldritch Glaive. It turns it into natural weapons, as a free action. I'm not sure of the exact wording, but from the wording of realmshelp.net, i would interpret that as a Su and say it works in bear shape.

[Venger]

Concerning skills, there is also the Apprentice feat from DMG2.

You can also use the generic classes from UA.

Concerning Eldritch Claws, it's a feat, not a Blast Shape Invocation like Eldritch Glaive. It turns it into natural weapons, as a free action. I'm not sure of the exact wording, but from the wording of realmshelp.net, i would interpret that as a Su and say it works in bear shape.

no interpretation necessary. bear shape's keyed off polymorph, which is keyed off alter self, which allows you to keep your su and sp abilities. claws, being a form of EB, is a SLA, so you keep it in bear shape. enjoy.

[Troacctid]

Knowledge Devotion probably does what you want better than Skill Knowledge as it gives the same benefit plus another benefit on top of that.

Eldritch Blast, unlike most SLAs, has somatic components, so you must be capable of fine manipulation to use it in bear form. This applies to all other invocations as well. Ask your DM if bear paws are sufficiently dexterous for somatic components.

[Champion Pickle]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. You get more, think of it like a Sorcerer, you get more Spells per Day as well as more spells known, in your case their just called Invocations.

Also i fully support Lazer Claw Bear.

Thanks for the answers to the first two, but I knew you get more invocations, but do you get access to higher level ones as well?

[Troacctid]

Thanks for the answers to the first two, but I knew you get more invocations, but do you get access to higher level ones as well?

Yes you do.

[sonofzeal]

I'm AFB, but I've used SoB before, and it's awesome.

If I remember correctly, there's no limit on the number of times you can turn into a bear. You can even turn from bear form directly into an identical bear form if you want. And due to the wording, you heal your level in HP each time.

Enjoy!

[Champion Pickle]

So I'd only need five levels of warlock then I can go into SoB without losing invocations? Is there any way to cram maneuvers in here?

[Troacctid]

You can gain maneuvers through the Martial Study feat or by wearing a magic item that grants a maneuver. You could also take levels in an initiator class, but that means losing invocations and delaying access to higher-level invocations, so it is probably undesirable.

[Champion Pickle]

I'm gunning less for invocations and more for flying laser kung fu bear.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I'm AFB, but I've used SoB before, and it's awesome.

If I remember correctly, there's no limit on the number of times you can turn into a bear. You can even turn from bear form directly into an identical bear form if you want. And due to the wording, you heal your level in HP each time.

Enjoy!

I just double checked and this is correct. I never thought of this. Sad considering I've always wanted to use SoB (also lulz at the initials).

[Champion Pickle]

One more question, what's the unarmed damage of a bear?

[Blackhawk748]

One more question, what's the unarmed damage of a bear?

Really depends on what bear you turn into, i would assume the claws are 1d6 and the bite is 1d8


I'm gunning less for invocations and more for flying laser kung fu bear.

Also i can not support this idea enough.

[Extra Anchovies]

One more question, what's the unarmed damage of a bear?

Unarmed strike for a Large creature is 1d4, probably.

[Venger]

Unarmed strike for a Large creature is 1d4, probably.

no probably about it, it's 1d4.

small is 1d2, med is 1d3, so that means it uses that progression and large is 1d4.