Pathfinder Diplomancer

[skypse]

Hello Giants!

Basically what the title says. I am looking around for a complete diplomancer guide based on pathfinder (no 3rd party) books. I have seen some guidelines but nothing as complete as the 3rd/3.5 equivalent. I don't know if anyone has done it in PF, I don't even know if it is possible considering the much less source material we have in PF compared to the chaos called 3.5 so I simply need the bright and experienced minds of this forum to help me. Thank you in advance.

[Abd al-Azrad]

For the purposes of this post, I assume Diplomancy means, "the ability to use the diplomacy skill to negate combat." Anyone can use diplomacy to barter, that's just the basic skill use. It's much trickier to use the skill offensively. Observe.

One of the most important things to note re: Pathfinder diplomancy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/diplomacy) are the mechanics used to make it work. Pretty much every trick you'll use is going to be based around the specifics of the skill in question, so let's cover some immediate bases.

Check

You can change the initial attitudes of nonplayer characters with a successful check. The DC of this check depends on the creature’s starting attitude toward you, adjusted by its Charisma modifier.

Succeed- If you succeed, the character’s attitude toward you is improved by one step. For every 5 by which your check result exceeds the DC, the character’s attitude toward you increases by one additional step. A creature’s attitude cannot be shifted more than two steps up in this way, although the GM can override this rule in some situations.

Fail- If you fail the check by 4 or less, the character’s attitude toward you is unchanged. If you fail by 5 or more, the character’s attitude toward you is decreased by one step.

You cannot use Diplomacy against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence of 3 or less. Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future. Any attitude shift caused through Diplomacy generally lasts for 1d4 hours but can last much longer or shorter depending upon the situation (GM discretion).

Action
Influence Attitude: Using Diplomacy to influence a creature’s attitude takes 1 minute of continuous interaction.
Make Request: Making a request of a creature takes 1 or more rounds of interaction, depending upon the complexity of the request.
Gather Information: Using Diplomacy to gather information takes 1d4 hours of work, searching for rumors and informants.

Try Again
You cannot use Diplomacy to influence a given creature’s attitude more than once in a 24 hour period. If a request is refused, the result does not change with additional checks, although other requests might be made. You can retry Diplomacy checks made to gather information.

So in short, you're capped at 2 attitude shifts up per 24 hours - and each shift only lasts 1d4 hours barring special circumstances. Like in 3.5, it takes a full minute to make the check. There is a special "soft" rule in here, which says that "Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future." What that means is open to DM interpretation, which doesn't help much in building a proper Diplomancer - without a hard rule of some sort, you really have no proper defense against an enemy just deciding to attack you without listening to your words.

Were I to offer a suggestion, before you even begin to think about Diplomancy, you will need magic to dissuade immediate hostility. The obvious choice is with the Bard's Fascinate performance - 90' radius, Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the bard’s level + the bard’s Cha modifier) to negate for each enemy, no re-attempt (automatically fails if tried twice on the same target within 24 hours). Unfortunately, any obvious threat (not just a threat to the affected creature) automatically breaks Fascinate, so if you don't manage to affect all enemies at once, one can draw their weapon and end the ability for everyone, prompting combat and defeating diplomacy.

[skypse]

So in short words, it might sound a good idea and seem good on paper but can't actually be usefull in real game situations.

[Abd al-Azrad]

I'd honestly propose the alternative. That it sounds bad on paper due to the built-in limitations, but in practice I imagine you'll have more options to use it than you might think.

If you're playing a kick-in-the-door game, no, Diplomancy won't help you. But even in games with lots of fighting, I can certainly imagine that it's unlikely you will be running into many creatures for which conflict is unavoidable.

You will have to coordinate with your team a bit, however, to ensure that your party does not look immediately threatening. The longer you can hold off on someone drawing a weapon, the better chance you have to initiate diplomacy. You've gotta burn 10 rounds. Perhaps rely on Sanctuary?

[Psyren]

Since "immediate future" is entirely in the DM's power to define, "Diplomancy" is quite simply not possible in PF; it amounts to "it works if the DM decides it works" - as opposed to 3.5's "it doesn't work if the DM houserules it not to work," a subtle yet nevertheless strong distinction.

[Quiddle]

Diplomacy is not a win all button you can press. However, it IS an incredibly powerful tool that can win you most noncombatant scenarios. It lets you find people to help you in almost any situation and can replace knowledge checks when knowledgable npcs are present. Things it is useful for include: asking for favors, interrogating captured enemies, bargaining, and many other things.

[judbishop]

Authoritative Vestments. Adventurer's Armory, page 24. 450 gold, 15 pounds.

Their effect can be utilized once per on each viewer- certainly at least once per encounter, then. What do they do? They enable you to "seem more impressive and worthy of respect," which in game terms means you get to make a single diplomacy check against all viewers within 60 feet of you- as a swift action.

This negates the ten round issue, which I've always considered to be the reason diplomacy isn't effective in combat. And even if you don't take the (trait, I think it is?) that lets you improve attitudes by three steps, two steps is still enough to move people from hostile to neutral.

I play an 80 year old noble woman who (figuratively) runs around in these and has a diplomacy score of 50 in addition to whatever she rolls, at level 12. She's relegated to the status of "last resort" because of her knack for spinning around in her pretty clothes, saying "Darling, I'm too beautiful to fight!" And talking our way out of combat.

[Fouredged Sword]

Another way to get a swift action diplomacy is scales of Abadar. You can spend a channel attempt to make a diplomacy check as a swift action. At 50gp they are viable from level 1.

[Orsyn]

This negates the ten round issue, which I've always considered to be the reason diplomacy isn't effective in combat. And even if you don't take the (trait, I think it is?) that lets you improve attitudes by three steps, two steps is still enough to move people from hostile to neutral.

Silvertongue Human racial ability

[Spore]

Two - rather simple - things:

1) Check back with your group if they're okay with you avoiding combat altogether. I've had groups that welcome this and groups that hate this.

2) Check back with your DM if he allows this. It's no use bruteforcing this into the game when your DM uses hours to prepare combat.

(3) There are things unable to be diplomanced. Undead, mindless vermin/oozes and DM fiat creatures come to mind)