Reincarnating a familiar...

[Jack_Simth]

Hey all,

Suppose an Oracle-9 (or better) with the Spirit Realm Mystery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/oracle-mysteries---radiance-house/spirit-realm-mystery) - specifically the "Spirit Womb" Revelation - uses that on a deceased familiar or animal companion ... is the resulting humanoid still a familiar/animal companion to it's master?

[Quiddle]

This is a very interesting question. On one hand "Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar." But on the other hand "If a familiar is dismissed, lost, or dies, it can be replaced 1 week later through a specialized ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level. The ritual takes 8 hours to complete." It doesn't say that your familiar stops being a familiar when it dies, just that you can replace it. I would say that yes you can have the familiar become a humanoid in the same way that you could polymorph a familiar.

[atemu1234]

I would say it ceases to be your familiar. It no longer qualifies; it would, though, probably still be loyal to its former master.

[Lightlawbliss]

afb but aren't there rules for bringing a familiar back to life? (I might be thinking about one of the various similar features)

[Psyren]

Spirit Realm is third-party so you'd have to ask the folks at RH how it works on familiars. The regular reincarnate spell already answers this question.

[Jack_Simth]

Spirit Realm is third-party so you'd have to ask the folks at RH how it works on familiars. The regular reincarnate spell already answers this question.
Really? I'm not seeing any mention of familiars in the SRD Entry (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/reincarnate.html).

[Squark]

Really? I'm not seeing any mention of familiars in the SRD Entry (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/reincarnate.html).

Nonhumanoids use a DM-created table. Presumably a familiar would get reincarnated as another type of familiar.

[Jack_Simth]

Nonhumanoids use a DM-created table. Presumably a familiar would get reincarnated as another type of familiar.That's the assumption most people will make, sure. Is there anything that actually requires the familiar come back as a standard familiar-type creature?

[LTwerewolf]

That's the assumption most people will make, sure. Is there anything that actually requires the familiar come back as a standard familiar-type creature?

Ceases to qualify as a familiar once it's not an appropriate type.

[Cruiser1]

afb but aren't there rules for bringing a familiar back to life?
Yes, visit http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm to see the text below. The text doesn't define whether "raised from the dead" means only a Raise Dead spell, or whether it can be any revival spell such as Reincarnate.

A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.

[Psyren]

That's the assumption most people will make, sure. Is there anything that actually requires the familiar come back as a standard familiar-type creature?

"For nonhumanoid creatures, a similar table of creatures of the same type should be created."

If your DM chooses not to create a nonhumanoid table, then clearly they would have to adjudicate what happens at that point. The spell tells them what they should do and they are free to ignore it, but they can't then turn around and complain to the designers when ignoring that instruction causes theme or balance issues in their campaign. Just as Wish tells you "requests stronger than these should be undesirable or partial" and they are free to ignore that too.

[Ravens_cry]

I'd let things fall as they may, and let you have a companion or familiar who is a creature from the list. Of course, this has repercussions. Now your familiar has to learn how to be a a very different type of creature with all sorts of new expectations, and having to learn new skills.
It sounds like a great role play opportunity in my opinion.

[Bronk]

Nonhumanoids use a DM-created table. Presumably a familiar would get reincarnated as another type of familiar.

I would go with this too... It makes sense to me, since even regular animals become magical creatures once they become a familiar. Basically I'd make a list of all available familiars, from base animals to the various improved familiar lists. If I was being nice, I'd make the list consist of familiars the player qualified for. If not, well, they could become a shimmerling swarm only accessible at CL18...

[Dalebert]

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised no one has contemplated the possibility that the familiar bond is broken when a familiar dies and is not necessarily repaired when a familiar is returned to life. I could certainly see a DM coming to that conclusion. Personally, I'd be inclined to allow it if they revived it in a reasonable amount of time. Not sure what I'd decide as "reasonable".

[Psyren]

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised no one has contemplated the possibility that the familiar bond is broken when a familiar dies and is not necessarily repaired when a familiar is returned to life. I could certainly see a DM coming to that conclusion. Personally, I'd be inclined to allow it if they revived it in a reasonable amount of time. Not sure what I'd decide as "reasonable".

I don't recall if this was the case in 3.5, but in Pathfinder you can raise familiars (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/campaignSystems/companions.html#reviving-and-replacing-companions) using the regular raising spells and they will come back as familiars. (Note that this passage reiterates the reincarnate table line from the spell as well.)

There is also a cheaper spell specifically for raising familiars (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/raise-animal-companion) that arcanists can access via Limited Wish.

[Squark]

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised no one has contemplated the possibility that the familiar bond is broken when a familiar dies and is not necessarily repaired when a familiar is returned to life. I could certainly see a DM coming to that conclusion. Personally, I'd be inclined to allow it if they revived it in a reasonable amount of time. Not sure what I'd decide as "reasonable".

Both systems specifically say raising familiars from the dead works, and 3.5 doesn't assign them the usual level/CON loss.

[Psyren]

Both systems specifically say raising familiars from the dead works, and 3.5 doesn't assign them the usual level/CON loss.

PF does hit the familiar with Con drain, but restoration can clear it up on both familiars and characters.