PF Make them bleed [Easy ways to gain bleed effects]

[Oracle_of_Void]

Hello playground, I would like to request some help for a character concept I've been thinking of. He is inspired by a character from a video game (Darius from League of Legends if you're curious) but role-play wise they'll diverge a bit. Any way, I want my character to attack like Darius but I'm not sure how to pull it off. If you don't know Darius, he's a warrior type with a big battle ax; however, he's no brute barbarian, he is a cold and precise killer. Every swing of his ax causes grievous, bleeding wounds. That's the crux of this thread: Is there an easy way for a martial character to deal bleed effects by swinging an ax? It doesn't have to be every swing but often enough to feel relevant. A full 20 level build would be amazing, but feat and class dip suggestions would still be greatly appreciated. All material suggested should be Pathfinder; Path of War will be considered, but I feel uneasy about using because I do not own the books for it (I know its on the SRD but still). Thanks for any help you can give!

[Baroncognito]

There's a chain that starts with Power Attack and goes to Bloody Assault (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bloody-assault-combat).

Or there's also the option of Bloody Vengeance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bloody-vengeance-combat), if you don't mind sacrificing standard actions now and then.

[Extra Anchovies]

There's a chain that starts with Power Attack and goes to Bloody Assault (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bloody-assault-combat).

That's kind of a terrible feat, though, since it's only 1d4 bleed damage and although the penalty applies to every attack you make, the bleed damage does not stack with itself. Another thing of very important note is:

Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage.
So if there are, say, seven different hp-damage bleed effects on a target, you roll for all of them but they only take damage equal to the highest single result. Stacking bleed can't happen, which is icky. I think it should be changed such that most/all bleed-inducing effects deal less damage but stack with one another.

Regardless, a weapon with a good crit range, plus Bleeding Critical, can be useful here. Also good would be sneak attack + Bleeding Attack, which inflicts 1 point of bleed per die of sneak attack, in addition to dealing the SA damage, on any successful sneak attack. Since he's a cold and efficient killer, maybe play him as a Slayer, and pick up Bleeding Attack ASAP?

[Baroncognito]

The problem with Bleeding Critical is that axes do not tend to have good crit threat ranges.

I suppose there's the option of the less than impressive Vital Strike Chain and throw in Furious Focus too.

Then you're only making one attack per round, but it does decent damage and doesn't have too awful an attack penalty.

Edit:

Slayer with Bleeding attack is a much better suggestion than vital strike.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Yeah. From the fluff you described, a Slayer might be the best bet. There are actually a multitude of ways to get bleed damage; in addition to said terrible feat, the rogue talent (though Slayers with it will gain less benefit because of less SA dice), and a weapon quality, Wounding. Wounding weapons are a +2 bonus and do only 1 bleed. but they stack with iterative attacks, which would stack with any other sources of bleed. A higher-level Magus arcana also lets them deal their Intelligence modifier as bleed damage after an attack.

[grarrrg]

Due to the stacking thing, most Bleed effects are terribly worthless.

Heck, even without the stacking thing, most Bleed effects are pretty much worthless because they are so SLOW. It's much better/faster/easier to taking feats to just improve your regular damage, and those feats usually work against things that are NOT Immune to Bleed damage as well.

The other problem is that the character you described:

he's a warrior type with a big battle ax; however, he's no brute barbarian, he is a cold and precise killer. Every swing of his ax causes grievous, bleeding wounds.
If you are causing "grievous" wounds with a "big battle ax" chances are the bleed-damage is going to be inconsequential anyway.


But if you simply MUST have Bleed damage, then I nominate:Wounding (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/wounding) weapon enchantment:
"A wounding weapon deals 1 point of bleed damage when it hits a creature. Multiple hits from a wounding weapon increase the bleed damage."
If you want to go 1-axe, that fine, but you could argue that TWF the bleed from BOTH axes would stack together, which _might_ actually make this more feasible.
But, you know, still worse than just taking feats to up your regular damage.

NINJAS!

Wounding weapons are a +2 bonus and do only 1 bleed. but they stack with iterative attacks, which would stack with any other sources of bleed
I disagree on the 'stacks with other sources' thing. It definitely stacks with itself, but I see nothing indicating it bypasses the default "multiples sources don't stack" ruling.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Oh, misinterpreted that rule, I thought it had meant coming from different sources. Such as from an enchantment, from sneak attack, and from a feat. And I really doubt there is a way outside Called Shot cheese to get multiple bleed damage types.

[emeraldstreak]

splintering weapon for thrown obsidian weapons

[deuxhero]

Bleed effect don't stack unless they do different kinds of damage?

Does this mean if you use a dagger (or other X OR Y weapon) you can stack bleed 2/3 times by changing the damage type?

[grarrrg]

Bleed effect don't stack unless they do different kinds of damage?

Does this mean if you use a dagger (or other X OR Y weapon) you can stack bleed 2/3 times by changing the damage type?

I think the intent was that you can have "regular Bleed" and "STR damage bleed" at the same time, but "CHA damage bleed" and "CHA damage bleed" don't stack.

[Extra Anchovies]

Bleed effect don't stack unless they do different kinds of damage?

Does this mean if you use a dagger (or other X OR Y weapon) you can stack bleed 2/3 times by changing the damage type?

They're both HP damage. I think what is meant is that if you have HP damage bleed and, say, Strength damage bleed, both apply (yes, there are attacks that deal ability damage bleed; most of them belong to monsters and it's not very common).

swordsage'd

[black-jack]

Implacable is a +3 bonus, does 2 hp/round for 5 rounds, and stacks with itself. Best Part is, you don't need a class or feat to grab it, although a +4 weapon is out of the price range for most characters.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm really surprised by this. Judged by the various bleed-enabling items/feats, it appears the designers are treating the ability of "bleed 1 damage per round" as extremely powerful. Mechanically speaking it's really really weak.

[gartius]

i believe the most powerful kind of bleed damage comes from thistle arrows

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrow-thistle

[Extra Anchovies]

i believe the most powerful kind of bleed damage comes from thistle arrows

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrow-thistle

I actually asked about that in the RAW Q&A thread here; it didn't carry over to the SRD for some reason, but it's only 1 point of bleed damage in the book in which that type of arrow appears.

[avr]

The best way is with an kali-style eidolon. Champions of Corruption allows a 1-point evolution to add 1d6 bleed to one type of the eidolons' attacks.

[Taveena]

The 1d6 from an Eidolon's is kinda mediocre. Now, if you took a biped Eidolon as a half-elf Summoner and spent 30 evolution points buying more arms, and THEN bought thirty-two one handed Wounding weapons, we've got some decent bleed damage.

This is still kind of a terrible way to abuse the eidolon, but HEY THE GUY'S BLEEDING FOR 90 STACKING DAMAGE PER TURN. THAT'S SOMETHING.

[Hamste]

Or you could take the merciful enchantment+ an elemental enchant to do 728 non-lethal to anything not immune to non-lethal and the element as opposed to 182 normal damage and 104 bleed damage (scaling down on both with missed attacks). Did the math for 52 attacks for some reason but you get the idea.

[Oracle_of_Void]

Well, I didn't expect to get so many responses! I realize that what I asked for isn't a very efficient way to deal damage but I like the concept because it sounds cool. Any way, thanks for all the input. I never heard of the wounding enchantment before so that sounds pretty close to what I want. I didn't even think of Slayer, that's a great suggestion. The idea of making sneak attacks with a big battle ax is amusing. The summoner stuff doesn't go with my character concept but thanks for bringing it up. If you any more suggestions, feel free to continue.

[Der_DWSage]

The 1d6 from an Eidolon's is kinda mediocre. Now, if you took a biped Eidolon as a half-elf Summoner and spent 30 evolution points buying more arms, and THEN bought thirty-two one handed Wounding weapons, we've got some decent bleed damage.

This is still kind of a terrible way to abuse the eidolon, but HEY THE GUY'S BLEEDING FOR 90 STACKING DAMAGE PER TURN. THAT'S SOMETHING.

Such a thing would be much more cheaply accomplished with a single Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Wounding enchantment on it. AoMF is still a little overpriced, but at least it's not 90 separate swords.

...Though then there's the issue of 'what are you hitting so many times that still isn't dead when you finish?'

[grarrrg]

Such a thing would be much more cheaply accomplished with a single Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Wounding enchantment on it. AoMF is still a little overpriced, but at least it's not 90 separate swords.
Cheaper? Heck yes.
But MUCH lower potential Bleed damage due to the Natural Attack Limit.

It it helps you could keep the Amulet, and throw on a half-dozen Tentacles (cheapest attack, gonna be secondaries anyway). With Multiattack the Tentacles would have the same chance to hit as all of your Manu-Weapon attacks, and they cost the same Evo-point wise per attack.


...Though then there's the issue of 'what are you hitting so many times that still isn't dead when you finish?'

Yeah...this is the main issue with Bleed damage.
Bleed damage is one of those things that works so much better when used AGAINST the Players.

[Extra Anchovies]

Cheaper? Heck yes.
But MUCH lower potential Bleed damage due to the Natural Attack Limit.

Couldn't you use, say, a Cestus on each hand and MWF with those? I think that would work, but I'm not sure.