Best warshaper entry?

[WarKitty]

Presuming that we want to maximize our abilities as a unarmored shapeshifting melee character, what's our best entry into warshaper?

[Venger]

Presuming that we want to maximize our abilities as a unarmored shapeshifting melee character, what's our best entry into warshaper?

changeling is the best entry. no investment of resources, your class features are always on, and the only opportunity cost is the feat you lose for not being human.

[WarKitty]

Changeling what?

[Extra Anchovies]

For non-changelings:
Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1/Druid 5/Warshaper 5/Nature's Warrior 5/Druid +4

6th-level casting, four BAB-derived attacks (unarmed strikes, boosted via Beast Strike), and Pounce.

[EisenKreutzer]

Changeling what?

It's a race.

[WarKitty]

Was thinking of using shifter as a base. Wouldn't know what to do with the first levels though.


It's a race.

Yes I know that. But just changeling by itself is not an entry to a prestige class.

[Venger]

For non-changelings:
Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1/Druid 5/Warshaper 5/Nature's Warrior 5/Druid +4

6th-level casting, four BAB-derived attacks (unarmed strikes, boosted via Beast Strike), and Pounce.

Or if you want to focus more on being a brute and less on spls, switch out some of your later druid lvls with MOMF first and then go into nature's warrior, since it'll keep progressing your wildshape.


It's a race.

yes. it's detailed in the eberron campaign setting, races of eberron, and the MM3. its "minor shape change" ability allows you to have your warshaper class features to always be functional outside of an AMF so you can enter with whatever class you feel like.


Was thinking of using shifter as a base. Wouldn't know what to do with the first levels though.



Yes I know that. But just changeling by itself is not an entry to a prestige class.

shifter is a terrible way to enter warshaper. first of all, shifting alone doesn't qualify for the class, so you'd need additional means, such as druid, second of all, even if it did, it's only a couple rounds a day which means your warshaper levels wouldn't do anything most of the time.

[Jeff the Green]

It's a race.

I think she's asking what to put in the five levels before you get into Warshaper.

I'd go with Whirling Frenzy Spiritual Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Psychic Warrior 4/Warblade 1. Yeah, you get in a level late, but Psychic Warrior's got some nice ways to improve natural weapons.

[Venger]

I think she's asking what to put in the five levels before you get into Warshaper.

I'd go with Whirling Frenzy Spiritual Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Psychic Warrior 4/Warblade 1. Yeah, you get in a level late, but Psychic Warrior's got some nice ways to improve natural weapons.

excellent choice. totemist is pretty appealing too, since you can use your class features to beef up your myriad natural attacks.

[Xerlith]

Changeling what?

Depends. A Changeling Crusader4/Warshaper4/Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian1/Crusader+15 can have pretty ridiculous charges.
Pounce with all natural weapons + Devoted Spirit charge maneuvers.

A Totemist entry, assuming RACSD reading of Morphic Weapons allows for MOAR natural attacks.

Whatever you do, take Multiattack.

[TypoNinja]

I've got an active Character right now that went in as.... monk.

Monk, Weretiger, Warshaper plan to follow it up with scout.

Monk was for flavour reasons but isn't a terrible first level to put the template on top of, all good saves, improved grapple for free, ok skills, d8 hp.

I'm in love with Weretiger as a bruiser, pounce, rare DR type, 5 attacks, absolutely massive stat adjustments, scent, large size, rake to make your grapples just scary. Getting sky high str on it is childs play. I usually win grapples, reach makes it silly, grapple any poor shmuck who provokes.

Slap shock trooper on that sucker for power attack X5 on a pounce, tanked AC off set by a hefty 10/silver DR and the fast healing from warshaper. Follow it up with Scout (to swift hunter to take advantage of the rangers higher BAB) and you get to add skrimish bonus damage with the pounce, on all five attacks.

Maybe I don't get spellcasting like I would with druid shens but holy crap its fun to just take a huge flying leap, (massive str means you can pretty much long jump your movement) land on some poor sucker and just shred him.

[WarKitty]

shifter is a terrible way to enter warshaper. first of all, shifting alone doesn't qualify for the class, so you'd need additional means, such as druid, second of all, even if it did, it's only a couple rounds a day which means your warshaper levels wouldn't do anything most of the time.

IIRC shifter has the shapechanger subtype, which qualifies them for the class. I really want to play up the wild animal deal more than anything. Lycanthropes would be nice if they didn't have stupid high stuff.

[TypoNinja]

IIRC shifter has the shapechanger subtype, which qualifies them for the class. I really want to play up the wild animal deal more than anything. Lycanthropes would be nice if they didn't have stupid high stuff.

You can make a therianthrope out of any animal you want, pick something less inherently beefy and it comes with less Racial Hit Dice.

A leopard for example is a cat with only 3HD, half the very beefy Tigers adjustment. Still gets pounce, and is very stealthy, and a climb speed for good fun. I played a Parkour Kitty in a one shot game once, it was freaking hilarious, you can fight like an anime ninja, bouncing off everything, running up walls, jumping to strange places, and vanishing if they take their eyes off you.

[WarKitty]

Hmmm, by-the-book lycanthropes are still pretty painful. 3 racial hit dice and a +3 level adjustment means you're already at level 6 by the time you come online, and you still need another level to get the requirement to warshaper. Unless I'm reading something wrong? Frankly 3 animal hit die seems by itself like it would be a suitable deal for what you get.

[Taveena]

If you pick one of the animals with Pounce, then that's a pretty solid entry, especially if you're already of an appropriate alignment. Weretiger's 6 HD aren't wonderful, but hey, Pounce, and the Control Shape DCs aren't too hard to meet if you don't want to eat the +3 LA. If you're okay with getting cheesy, though... Were-Fleshraker is /terrifying/. Throw it on something like a Dragonborn Water Orc for some truly ridiculous stats. Might even be worth the +2 LA and the four RHD.

[WarKitty]

Let's just take "I want to be a kitty and tear things apart" as a given.

Because really, I'm WarKitty.

[Taveena]

Weretiger autoqualifies on BAB and shapeshifting already, gets pounce, and has a strength modifier somewhat out of place for its LA.

Wereleopard enters earlier (RHD 3/Full BAB 2) so if you want to grab some Crusader or Warblade levels, it's a solid choice. Personally, I've got a soft spot for Weretiger. The LA is nasty but in both cases it can be bought off, and godDAMN is that strength score insane. Consider a Monk dip so you can get iterative in addition to the natural attack routine. (If you use a Dwarf as the base, Hammer Fist is a solid option for abusing that racial +8 strength mod.) Of course, you could also just ubercharge the hell out of everything. It's a bit more complicated than a one-level Barbarian dip, but hey, you've got pounce, a ridiculous strength score, and the potential to abuse it.

[Dusk Eclipse]

There is the pseudo/quasi lycanthrope template, from a measly LA+1 you get shapechanger subtype, DR 10/silver (pretty significant at lower levels) and the ability to use Disguise Self at will (only to add or remove animalistic features though). Not a great template on itself, but it gives you a lot of variety to enter war Shaper with almost any base race+class combination.

I'd link it, but I haven't figured out how to use the archive of web enhancements :smallredface:

[Urpriest]

Which houserule is your DM using for Warshaper's number of attacks? Or are you allowed to go with the full "I can get a new natural attack every time I use a move action, and they last forever, so I quickly become a giant ball of tentacles" RAW?

[Venger]

IIRC shifter has the shapechanger subtype, which qualifies them for the class. I really want to play up the wild animal deal more than anything. Lycanthropes would be nice if they didn't have stupid high stuff.

okay, so shifter does have the shapeshifter subtype, which qualifies you for the class, but shifting is only active a few rounds a day, meaning that most of the time, your class features will be nonfunctional, necessitating other methods of changing your form being available, so shifter wouldn't really be pulling its weight.

if you want to lycanthrope, look at weretouched master. it was a pretty elegant solution before the errata made it completely worthless. talk to your DM about rolling a pre-errata version.


There is the pseudo/quasi lycanthrope template, from a measly LA+1 you get shapechanger subtype, DR 10/silver (pretty significant at lower levels) and the ability to use Disguise Self at will (only to add or remove animalistic features though). Not a great template on itself, but it gives you a lot of variety to enter war Shaper with almost any base race+class combination.

I'd link it, but I haven't figured out how to use the archive of web enhancements :smallredface:

just change www to archive.

[Jeff the Green]

Let's just take "I want to be a kitty and tear things apart" as a given.

Because really, I'm WarKitty.

Tibbit? For tibbit entry, CE Soulborn 2/Stoneblessed 3/Goliath Barbarian 1.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Before anyone asks, CE Soulborns are immune to Str penalties, and Tibbits are a race that can shape-change into a kitty form which imposes a -8 Str penalty, so if you combine the too you get a Kitty with the strength of a full sized human(oid).

Secondly, Stoneblessed is so you can count as a Goliath (race from Races of Stone) for all intents and purposes, the racial substitution level for Goliath Barbarians makes you large when you rage, note it isn't a size increase, it says you become large. So you have a kitty which can grow to the size of a horse and then grow tentacles, claws, pincers, stingers, wings (buffets), etc.


http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0084/2412/products/04_RK_Cathulhu_1024x1024.jpg?v=1404316412

[Jeff the Green]

Before anyone asks, CE Soulborns are immune to Str penalties, and Tibbits are a race that can shape-change into a kitty form which imposes a -8 Str penalty, so if you combine the too you get a Kitty with the strength of a full sized human(oid).

Secondly, Stoneblessed is so you can count as a Goliath (race from Races of Stone) for all intents and purposes, the racial substitution level for Goliath Barbarians makes you large when you rage, note it isn't a size increase, it says you become large. So you have a kitty which can grow to the size of a horse and then grow tentacles, claws, pincers, stingers, wings (buffets), etc.


http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0084/2412/products/04_RK_Cathulhu_1024x1024.jpg?v=1404316412


Right. The build I usually throw around finishes with Totem Rager, though there are plenty of other things that would work.

[nolongerchaos]

I like changeling Barbarian 4/warshaper/bear warrior 5/fist of the forest, and the Feral template if you can swing it, which will net you claws and pounce, in addition to it's other benefits. The fluff works, and if anyone argues that you're OP, maybe show them page 33 of the PHB, and perhaps reinforce that you aren't a full caster, unlike some classes.

[Trundlebug]

IIRC shifter has the shapechanger subtype, which qualifies them for the class. I really want to play up the wild animal deal more than anything. Lycanthropes would be nice if they didn't have stupid high stuff.

Hi shifter is a flavourful race but mechanically weak. I still like it.

So if your DM is cool with flaws, shifting triggering warshaper and handwaving shifter multiattack to qualify as multiattack(a lot I know) you can try a build I made for low op campaign using as much shifter as possible while not being completely useless(YMMV). Just cuz.

Barbarian 2 can be traded for ranger if you don't want improved uncanny dodge, skills are super tight.
Brb=Barbarian, War=Warblade, BcM=Bloodclaw Master, WTM=Weretouched master, using the errated version but if you can swing the original...

Obviously skill/maneuver wise you need jump. High magic campaigns quest for an item of continuous airwalk/Balance on the Sky and you can jump around faster than most of your party can fly and retaining your much needed leap attack. My dude started as an alchoholic lumberjack that resisted his bestial side in memory of his human mother (didnt know his dad) but met the party and as usual they turned his life upside down. Unleash the beast. Walked around wit an axe before he got his claws.

The convoluted manner of getting the claws is specific. Works out for the best, mechanically and character growth wise. Went bear because there is no size clause on WTM's bear Improved Grab. If fractional BAB or Beast Strike is in play squishing Unarmed Swordsage in there could be fun at expense of BAB/HD. Fist of the Forest an was another avenue. Black Blood Cultists is cool but going shifter route(the hard way) kinda messes that up.

Basically by 9th you have 4 or 5 shifts that last something like nine rnds I think(on phone) and d8 claws + d6 con draining bite and no strength or to hit penalty on secondary nat. weapons. With positioning and roleplay you can shift, Intimidate/talk grow claws to 2d6 in 1 rnd and still have plenty of shifting time. Prepare to jump across the battlemap. Anyways, not RAW, low power, but shifter!

Shifter Longtooth
F1 -Longtooth Elite
F2 -Power Attack
1 -Brb1 Whirling Frenzy/Lion Totem
1:Shifter Instincts

2 -Brb2 Uncanny Dodge
3 -War1 Battle Clarity(R), Wpn Aptitude
3:EST-Longstride

4 -War2 Imp. Uncanny Dodge
5 -WSp1 Morphic Immunities, Morphic Weapons
6 -BcM1 Shift+1, Claws of the Beast
6:Shifter Multiattack

7 -WTM1 I-(Bear-Claw)
8 -WTM2 BSF:Improved Natural Attack-Claw, Wild Empathy
9 -BcM2 Superior 2-Wpn, TC Synergy(+1 dodge or +10 move)
9:Leap Attack

10 -WTM3 II-(Bear-Imp. Grab), Scent
11 -WTM4 BSF: , Frightful Shifting(Ex)
12 -WSp2 Morphic Body
12:

Edit: Remember you get +1 to hit and damage/4 CL after 7th on claws. Not before. You have a knock-off shifter claw ability at 6th.

[torrasque666]

Before anyone asks, CE Soulborns are immune to Str penalties, and Tibbits are a race that can shape-change into a kitty form which imposes a -8 Str penalty, so if you combine the too you get a Kitty with the strength of a full sized human(oid).

Secondly, Stoneblessed is so you can count as a Goliath (race from Races of Stone) for all intents and purposes, the racial substitution level for Goliath Barbarians makes you large when you rage, note it isn't a size increase, it says you become large. So you have a kitty which can grow to the size of a horse and then grow tentacles, claws, pincers, stingers, wings (buffets), etc.


You know, its funny. Everyone uses it for that purpose, but apparently no one reads the class. It says you count for all effects, and while Mountain Rage is indeed an effect that targets Goliaths, Stoneblessed only count as that race for racial prereqs for Prestige Classes and feats. Not base classes, not alternate class features, just PrCs and Feats.

[arkangel111]

Changeling by far! I entered a feral changeling into IC LX that could seriously drop 3k+ damage in a round without breaking a sweat. I FtQ'd or I might have had a chance at a medal. though it did have some extra gouda that I added that usually won't fly by most DM's so I would tone it down a little. If your DM allows templates grab feral over Barb 1 any day of the week. Everyone always says grab SLTBarb but feral gives a whole lot more and is far better even without LA buy off. Use the Mouthpick weapon enhancement to really maximize the number of attacks offered by Warshaper. As a Base Class I prefer the Crusader, the recovery mechanics are amazing, but swordsage has many of the good maneuvers you may want to pick up.

My entry was Ookoobey, I don't know how to link the specific post but its on the 5th page 6th or 7th entry I think.

[Urpriest]

Changeling by far! I entered a feral changeling into IC LX that could seriously drop 3k+ damage in a round without breaking a sweat. I FtQ'd or I might have had a chance at a medal. though it did have some extra gouda that I added that usually won't fly by most DM's so I would tone it down a little. If your DM allows templates grab feral over Barb 1 any day of the week. Everyone always says grab SLTBarb but feral gives a whole lot more and is far better even without LA buy off. Use the Mouthpick weapon enhancement to really maximize the number of attacks offered by Warshaper. As a Base Class I prefer the Crusader, the recovery mechanics are amazing, but swordsage has many of the good maneuvers you may want to pick up.

My entry was Ookoobey, I don't know how to link the specific post but its on the 5th page 6th or 7th entry I think.

The whole point of Spirit Lion Totem is Pounce. Feral doesn't give you Pounce without 4+ RHD.

[Jeff the Green]

You know, its funny. Everyone uses it for that purpose, but apparently no one reads the class. It says you count for all effects, and while Mountain Rage is indeed an effect that targets Goliaths, Stoneblessed only count as that race for racial prereqs for Prestige Classes and feats. Not base classes, not alternate class features, just PrCs and Feats.

What? No it doesn't.

In addition, for all effects related to race, a stoneblessed is considered a member of the race to which she is bonded.
The feats and PrC language is an example, not a limitation.

[torrasque666]

What? No it doesn't.

The feats and PrC language is an example, not a limitation.

If it was continuing the example, they'd have said "for dwarves" as that was the example given.

Meanwhile, "effect" is almost always further defined by something. Fear, Spell, Paralyze, etc. An Alternate class feature is not​ an effect by that definition.

Given that they play with Racial Substitution levels in the very same book, you'd think they'd have mentioned it if it applied.

[Jeff the Green]

Meanwhile, "effect" is almost always further defined by something. Fear, Spell, Paralyze, etc. An Alternate class feature is not​ an effect by that definition.

That's not at all true. It gives the example of being able to use magic items restricted to race, which isn't the kind of effect you say the class means either.

[torrasque666]

Aye, but the magic effect is only able to affect a certain race by limitations due to crafting. The magic item provides the effect, further modified to only apply to certain races. Its a magic effect.

[Jeff the Green]

Aye, but the magic effect is only able to affect a certain race by limitations due to crafting. The magic item provides the effect, further modified to only apply to certain races. Its a magic effect.

That is really stretching it. You have to contort the language by an absurd degree to do that; other than items that replicate spells, none of them are ever described as having an effect.

[torrasque666]

Still, there is a source for any of the things that are granted by items. Whether by magic or the item itself, there is an effect from a source. An ACF or SubLevel has no source.

[TypoNinja]

Weretiger autoqualifies on BAB and shapeshifting already, gets pounce, and has a strength modifier somewhat out of place for its LA.

Wereleopard enters earlier (RHD 3/Full BAB 2) so if you want to grab some Crusader or Warblade levels, it's a solid choice. Personally, I've got a soft spot for Weretiger. The LA is nasty but in both cases it can be bought off, and godDAMN is that strength score insane. Consider a Monk dip so you can get iterative in addition to the natural attack routine. (If you use a Dwarf as the base, Hammer Fist is a solid option for abusing that racial +8 strength mod.) Of course, you could also just ubercharge the hell out of everything. It's a bit more complicated than a one-level Barbarian dip, but hey, you've got pounce, a ridiculous strength score, and the potential to abuse it.

Weretiger strength is just silly, I'm stronger than true dragons that are larger than me. It more than offsets the 3/4 BAB, and your base damage is so freaking high. Yes all those RHD kind of suck compared to class features, but if all you want is a bruiser, weretiger definitely fits the bill.

[arkangel111]

The whole point of Spirit Lion Totem is Pounce. Feral doesn't give you Pounce without 4+ RHD.

So you don't get pounce till level 4. But in return you get so many benefits that far out does the barb dip. Fast healing, and rend are the big ones, but also grabbed improved grab for some bfc, and claws which can be enhanced via warshaper. If your just grabbing barb as a dip and not focusing on rage then your only really gaining pounce and feral is far superior.

[Jeff the Green]

Still, there is a source for any of the things that are granted by items. Whether by magic or the item itself, there is an effect from a source. An ACF or SubLevel has no source.

...I fail to see anything in this that is remotely relevant to Stoneblessed. It doesn't mention "source" at all.

[Urpriest]

So you don't get pounce till level 4. But in return you get so many benefits that far out does the barb dip. Fast healing, and rend are the big ones, but also grabbed improved grab for some bfc, and claws which can be enhanced via warshaper. If your just grabbing barb as a dip and not focusing on rage then your only really gaining pounce and feral is far superior.

RHD. Read the template. The extraordinary special attacks and extraordinary special qualities key off of different measures of HD, with the attacks being strictly monster HD and the qualities being total HD. Similarly, you don't get Improved Grab or Rend. Fast Healing is nice, but that's what your party DMM Cleric is for. :smalltongue:

[torrasque666]

...I fail to see anything in this that is remotely relevant to Stoneblessed. It doesn't mention "source" at all.

an effect has to come from somewhere. it has to be caused. Without a cause, an effect cannot happen.

[Trundlebug]

So you don't get pounce till level 4. But in return you get so many benefits that far out does the barb dip. Fast healing, and rend are the big ones, but also grabbed improved grab for some bfc, and claws which can be enhanced via warshaper. If your just grabbing barb as a dip and not focusing on rage then your only really gaining pounce and feral is far superior.

No. You don't get pounce at lvl 4. You are discounting RHD.

[Necroticplague]

Weretiger strength is just silly, I'm stronger than true dragons that are larger than me. It more than offsets the 3/4 BAB, and your base damage is so freaking high. Yes all those RHD kind of suck compared to class features, but if all you want is a bruiser, weretiger definitely fits the bill.

Meh. Bear and Dire Wolf are stronger for the same HD, and a Sewerm advanced to Large size is stronger than all those guys for 1 HD less. Basically, choice boils down to what special attack you want. Do you want pounce, trip, or grapple?

Though I would like to note, the comparison with dragons isn't a particularly good one because the STR of true dragons really isn't that high. A Goliath can also meet that condition rather easily, to say nothing of more STR effecient templates (Half-minotaur, half-ogre).

[Tvtyrant]

Meh. Bear and Dire Wolf are stronger for the same HD, and a Sewerm advanced to Large size is stronger than all those guys for 1 HD less. Basically, choice boils down to what special attack you want. Do you want pounce, trip, or grapple?

Though I would like to note, the comparison with dragons isn't a particularly good one because the STR of true dragons really isn't that high. A Goliath can also meet that condition rather easily, to say nothing of more STR effecient templates (Half-minotaur, half-ogre).

I personally like Feral Template Dire Bear for pounce, ludicrous strength, improved grab, fast healing and a +18 to strength.

[WarKitty]

I want a character that's viable in most campaigns without relying on extensive house rules though. Which means I need something that doesn't have to start super high to be effective. That means not eating so many RHD/LA that I can't even start playing until level 8 or so.

[Venger]

My entry was Ookoobey, I don't know how to link the specific post but its on the 5th page 6th or 7th entry I think.

here's what you do:

text you want to do

^(don't put a space after "url")

here's ookoobey (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18176129&postcount=136)

[Thiyr]

Ah the warshaper, the class that I always try to squeeze in if I don't need my race to be something specific. Is fractional BAB on the table? If so, I'd say go for changeling Whirly spirit bear barb 1/totemist 2/psywar 2/warshaper 4, then follow up with psywar or more totemist. If it isn't, just go for barb 1/psywar 4. Then you just want the 2 totemist levels in later. Get Girallon arms, and take advantage of your sneaky reach out of warshaper to threaten more squares than it seems. Thought you were safe? AoO, improved grab gives me a grapple check, and I'll use my abnormally high bonus to eat that -20 to not consider myself as being in a grapple. Plus, you're not so absurdly dedicated to grappling that you're hosed if someone happens to cast freedom of movement. Don't worry as much about losing pounce, given your access to psionic lion's charge, or if you're really concerned about it, take a few levels in warblade from ECL 11-14. Gets you pouncing charge (plus other goodies to taste).

[copycatcat]

*Obligatory post of Rugaru (http://agc.deskslave.org/files/EvilCharacters_Dan_Jill.doc)*

[Petrocorus]

Changeling what?
If ToB is on line, i'd advice LST Barb 1 / Unarmed Swordsage 3 or LST Barb 1 / Warblade 3 with an emphasis on Tiger Claw

Without ToB, i'd say Ranger 1 / LST Barbarian 1 / Fighter 2.

Or Wildshape Ranger 5 if you don't get the shapechanger subtype with your race.



IIRC shifter has the shapechanger subtype, which qualifies them for the class. I really want to play up the wild animal deal more than anything. Lycanthropes would be nice if they didn't have stupid high stuff.


Let's just take "I want to be a kitty and tear things apart" as a given.

Because really, I'm WarKitty.

Feral Changeling would do the trick. As would Quasilycantrope anything, or the Tibbit, all of this already mentioned.

But i would add the Divine Minion Template (http://www.realmshelps.net/faerun/lore/magicbooks13.shtml) that gives Wild Shape and so qualify you for Warshaper and MoMF.

[tonberrian]

Shifter Barbarian/Warshaper/Weretouched Master isn't a bad build. Focusing on Shifter feats, you can get 3, 4 shifts per day, which is all you really need. You could also go Barbarian/Bear Warrior/Warshaper with any race, though you don't get warshaper stuff until late-game. If bears aren't your thing, Lion/Dire Lion are pretty comparable to brown/black bear in stats, so you could ask if you could get a Lion Warrior instead. Primeval also gets into Warshaper, but you really want all levels of Primeval for more primeval form uses, and Primeval wants a lot of sucky feats. Also, Fist of the Forest is a nice finisher for any Warshaper build.

[Taveena]

We-ell, Tibbit even without Soulborn... stuff makes a hilarious Warshaper. As it's at-will, they get in as easily as a Changeling. There's no pounce, but you have room to dip Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian (which is kind of amusing thematically) for it.
Still, yeah, I think Tibbit Barb 1/Soulborn 2/Warblade 1 is the best entry kitty-wise without RHD or LA. (You could also delay Warblade to pick up thirds instead of second level maneuvers.)

[Petrocorus]

Shifter Barbarian/Warshaper/Weretouched Master isn't a bad build. Focusing on Shifter feats, you can get 3, 4 shifts per day, which is all you really need. You could also go Barbarian/Bear Warrior/Warshaper with any race, though you don't get warshaper stuff until late-game.
If Bear is your thing, Sentinel of Bharraï does not actually require spellcasting, only the relevant knowledge and 2 feats. And his bear shape ability is unlimited, unlike the Bear Warrior's one.


If bears aren't your thing, Lion/Dire Lion are pretty comparable to brown/black bear in stats, so you could ask if you could get a Lion Warrior instead. Primeval also gets into Warshaper, but you really want all levels of Primeval for more primeval form uses, and Primeval wants a lot of sucky feats. Also, Fist of the Forest is a nice finisher for any Warshaper build.
I have a doubt about Primeval, the description of the feature actually use the term "alternate form" despite saying it works like Polymorph and Warshaper specifies that alternate form is not enough.


We-ell, Tibbit even without Soulborn... stuff makes a hilarious Warshaper. As it's at-will, they get in as easily as a Changeling. There's no pounce, but you have room to dip Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian (which is kind of amusing thematically) for it.
Still, yeah, I think Tibbit Barb 1/Soulborn 2/Warblade 1 is the best entry kitty-wise without RHD or LA. (You could also delay Warblade to pick up thirds instead of second level maneuvers.)
I'm sorry, but i don't really get what Soulborn bring to the build? I don't know MoI very well, could you enlighten me?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I hate to quote myself, but I really don't want to type it again.


Before anyone asks, CE Soulborns are immune to Str penalties, and Tibbits are a race that can shape-change into a kitty form which imposes a -8 Str penalty, so if you combine the too you get a Kitty with the strength of a full sized human(oid)

[Chronos]

And really, it's rare enough that Soulborns are useful for anything at all, that you really want to take advantage of them in the rare case that they're not totally useless.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Do note that you need to be a CE soulborn, the other alignments have other immunities.

[WarKitty]

CE makes it unsuitable for play in most cases, though.

Really, is there any way to do something like the wereleopard but that just isn't as....terrible?

[Urpriest]

CE makes it unsuitable for play in most cases, though.

Really, is there any way to do something like the wereleopard but that just isn't as....terrible?

Were-Phynxkin (sp) (Dragon Magic) are a bit better.

CE correlates well with feline personalities. :smalltongue:

Wildshape Ranger may in fact be your best bet, if your goal is "turn into a cat->be a warshaper->maul face."

[Zaq]

Before anyone asks, CE Soulborns are immune to Str penalties, and Tibbits are a race that can shape-change into a kitty form which imposes a -8 Str penalty, so if you combine the too you get a Kitty with the strength of a full sized human(oid).

Even better, the Tibbit race has a –2 racial penalty to STR and a +2 racial bonus to DEX, even when in humanoid form. CE Soulborn even gets rid of the racial penalty, cat form or no cat form. (PHB pg. 11 lists racial stat modifiers as bonuses and penalties, so this works.)

[torrasque666]

Thats...... stretching it bro.

[WarKitty]

Were-Phynxkin (sp) (Dragon Magic) are a bit better.

CE correlates well with feline personalities. :smalltongue:

Wildshape Ranger may in fact be your best bet, if your goal is "turn into a cat->be a warshaper->maul face."

That is pretty much the goal, yes, but I want to be able to do it at level 1. That's where most campaigns start and I don't want to have a gimmick that doesn't start until a number of sessions in. And WoTC seems to annoyingly overvalue any sort of shapechanging.

[Urpriest]

That is pretty much the goal, yes, but I want to be able to do it at level 1. That's where most campaigns start and I don't want to have a gimmick that doesn't start until a number of sessions in. And WoTC seems to annoyingly overvalue any sort of shapechanging.

Shapeshifter Druid has compatibility issues with pretty much everything, but does allow you to turn into a face-mauling kitty at level 1. I'm not sure whether it's compatible with Warshaper, but if not you can combine it with a race like Changeling that is.

[WarKitty]

Shapeshifter Druid has compatibility issues with pretty much everything, but does allow you to turn into a face-mauling kitty at level 1. I'm not sure whether it's compatible with Warshaper, but if not you can combine it with a race like Changeling that is.

So I see. Pity there's no good way to boost your BaB without just taking levels in a full-BaB class. The more nice little things you put in before warshaper the longer it takes to get that +4.

Probably want to squeeze in some fist of the forest in the build. We'll be unarmored most of the time. Maybe shapeshift druid 2/lion totem barb 1/fighter 2 (because feats), then grab fist of the forest and warshaper as desired.

[arkangel111]

RHD. Read the template. The extraordinary special attacks and extraordinary special qualities key off of different measures of HD, with the attacks being strictly monster HD and the qualities being total HD. Similarly, you don't get Improved Grab or Rend. Fast Healing is nice, but that's what your party DMM Cleric is for. :smalltongue:

It never mentions RHD... It says


A feral creature gains additional special attacks depending on its Hit Dice, as shown on the table below.

[tyckspoon]

It never mentions RHD... It says

The immediate next sentence specifies monster hit dice, and the only sensible interpretation of what a 'monster hit dice' is is RHD.

[WarKitty]

Let's see, if you do like shifter...

There's also shapeshift druid3/Totem barb1/Fighter1/FotF2/Warshaper3/Moonspeaker10. Take the right abilities to cast enhancement spells quickly. Optimized? Not particularly, but it should be competent.

[tonberrian]

I have a doubt about Primeval, the description of the feature actually use the term "alternate form" despite saying it works like Polymorph and Warshaper specifies that alternate form is not enough.

Again, Primeval gets the Shapeshifter subtype, which does count. It only qualifies at, like, level 18.


Really, is there any way to do something like the wereleopard but that just isn't as....terrible?

Were-touched Master is very close (it used to be absolutely, but it got nerfed from full-on hybrid form to enhanced shifting and alternate form into your animal). Primeval turns you into a savage, primordial animal beast, becoming more and more animal like at base and shifting into an animal that gets stronger and tougher, though you can't get into Warshaper until level 18 or so if you aren't a shifter or changeling.

I'm a big fan of Primeval, even if it does make you dumber and less likeable.

[Petrocorus]

I hate to quote myself, but I really don't want to type it again.
Oh my... sorry, i misread this, sorry.


CE makes it unsuitable for play in most cases, though.

Really, is there any way to do something like the wereleopard but that just isn't as....terrible?

Yes, as i said, the Divine Minion template allows that. If you do not play in FR or do not want to play a Mulhorandi character, you can ask your DM to adapt it. Divine Minion of Bast allows wild shape into cat, leopard and lion. Divine Minion of Horus-Rê allows Lion and Hawk, both for +2 LA. Divine Minion of Anhur allows Lion only, for +1 LA.

Tibbit plus some enlarge monster stuff would make it too.

If LA buy-off is OK, then Human (or anything) Divine Minion of Bast LST Barb 1 / Warblade 3 allows you to qualify to Warshaper at Character Level 4 and ECL 6. With the possibility to later buy off the LA for a total cost of 15 000 XP. And the wereleopard thing with no RHD.

[WarKitty]

LA still requires starting at something that isn't level 1, unfortunately, even with buyoff.

[Urpriest]

LA still requires starting at something that isn't level 1, unfortunately, even with buyoff.

If you're playing in FR there are other methods, which are reasonably balanced for low LA values. Basically you take -1 to everything until you catch up.

[TypoNinja]

If you're playing in FR there are other methods, which are reasonably balanced for low LA values. Basically you take -1 to everything until you catch up.

I'm a big fan of the savage progressions.

[arkangel111]

The immediate next sentence specifies monster hit dice, and the only sensible interpretation of what a 'monster hit dice' is is RHD.

Its monster Hit Die, not Monster Hit Die. its referring to the creature it is being applied to not Racial Hit Die, which are 2 separate things entirely. the first mention of racial hit die is on Page 6 so clearly if the developers meant racial hit die they would have said so.

[Urpriest]

Its monster Hit Die, not Monster Hit Die. its referring to the creature it is being applied to not Racial Hit Die, which are 2 separate things entirely. the first mention of racial hit die is on Page 6 so clearly if the developers meant racial hit die they would have said so.

If that were the case then it would use the same phrasing as the special qualities section, and it doesn't. I pointed this out earlier in the thread, and you've undoubtedly seen this discussion take place before on this forum. Arguing about it here and now rather than setting out your full argument when you first posted in the thread is rather disingenuous.

[arkangel111]

the special qualities section is all overlapping abilities not cumulative which is why the language is different.


Special Qualities: A feral creature gains additional special qualities depending on its Hit Dice, as shown on the table below. If the base creature possesses a duplicate ability, the feral creature has whichever ability is better.


Special Attacks: A feral creature gains additional special attacks depending on its Hit Dice, as shown on the table below. It gains the special attacks indicated in the row corresponding to its monster Hit Dice, plus all those in previous rows. If the base creature possesses a duplicate ability, the feral creature uses whichever version of the ability is better.

They are IDENTICAL in the first and last sentences, the middle sentence is there to clarify that abilities are cumulative.

[Urpriest]

the special qualities section is all overlapping abilities not cumulative which is why the language is different.





They are IDENTICAL in the first and last sentences, the middle sentence is there to clarify that abilities are cumulative.

Huh interesting. Had not connected the dots on that before. Seems like something the forums in general have missed. I'll have to think about whether that's sufficient to prove your claim, but it does seem fairly direct.

Again, you could have mentioned that you had a novel argument on the topic when you first brought it up in the thread... :smalltongue:

[arkangel111]

sorry ur... didn't realize it was an argument at first. I thought that just stating it would cause you to reread and perhaps someone else to jump in and confirm my claim without making me delve into the books and find quotes. I know when you challenged It I reread to see if I was wrong.

[Giddonihah]

The Hengeyokai race from Oriental Adventures can qualify with even less fuss than a Changeling. It had +1 LA with the Shapeshifter type, but recieved an update that removed the LA and made it a Humanoid (shapeshifter).
As a bonus, you choose one animal as your 'alternate form' (some argument over whether the animal is your true form, or the humanoid), and cat is an option.
Its less fuss because while some argue that the Changelings form altering isn't sufficient for Warshaper, no such argument is made against the Hengeyokai's hybrid form.

Otherwise build like you would with a changeling base, with anything that gets you the bab to qualify.

Also I dislike Divine Minion, its not a fair template, and its use often signals high op.

[Venger]

some argue that the Changelings form altering isnt sufficient for Warshaper

they have no RAW justification. minor shape change is keyed off disguise self for numerical bonuses and stacking related things, but it's not an illusion, it's an actual physiological change.

still, hengeyokai is cute if you want to fly, burrow, swim, etc.

[Giddonihah]

Having no RAW justification doesn't defend you from a GM eyeballing it and stating "Thats Disguise self, doesn't work". Hengeyokai is easier to pass by that kind of GM. (Well if you are allowed to use the race in the first place that is. But Changeling is setting specific as well, so eh.)

[Dusk Eclipse]

Then it is a good thing that MM III made all the Eberron Races (except Kalashtar ) setting neutral.:smallwink:

[Venger]

Having no RAW justification doesn't defend you from a GM eyeballing it and stating "Thats Disguise self, doesn't work". Hengeyokai is easier to pass by that kind of GM. (Well if you are allowed to use the race in the first place that is. But Changeling is setting specific as well, so eh.)

fair enough. they'd still be wrong, but some people love to houserule. hengeyokai are setting specific too, but like with changeling, it's often ignored since it's not like there's any reason they couldn't exist outside their respective books

[arkangel111]

There is 0 RAW argument to not allow changelings.

Under the special requirements section bullet point 3 states:


Shapechanger subtype (lycanthropes, phasm).

The () denotes examples and not all inclusive. Changelings have the shapechanger subtype and therefore qualify.

[Venger]

There is 0 RAW argument to not allow changelings.

Under the special requirements section bullet point 3 states:



The () denotes examples and not all inclusive. Changelings have the shapechanger subtype and therefore qualify.

exactly. they qualify, period.

[Petrocorus]

OTOH, i don't have OA under the hand right now, but according to DnDTools, the Hengeyokaï's ability is an Alternate Form, and Warshaper specifically states alternate form does not qualifies. So i believe the Hengeyokaï qualifies because of his Shapechanger subtype, just like the Changeling.

And if a DM can believe that Minor Shape Change is not enough to qualify, i don't see any one thinking it's an illusion like Disguise Self. The Changeling description is really clear about the Minor Shape Change being a real physical change and not an illusion.

[Venger]

And if a DM can believe that Minor Shape Change is not enough to qualify, i don't see any one thinking it's an illusion like Disguise Self. The Changeling description is really clear about the Minor Shape Change being a real physical change and not an illusion.

As mentioned, that's irrelevant because changeling is a shapechanger, which qualifies.

[EnnPeeCee]

One way into Warshaper that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the Dragonfire Adept's lesser invocation Humanoid Shape (or Warlock with houseruling or the Infernal Adept feat). By the looks of the discussion, it probably isn't what you're looking for thematically, but I thought I would mention it.

[Venger]

One way into Warshaper that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the Dragonfire Adept's lesser invocation Humanoid Shape (or Warlock with houseruling or the Infernal Adept feat). By the looks of the discussion, it probably isn't what you're looking for thematically, but I thought I would mention it.

change shape is called out by warshaper, which is what humanoid shape is keyed off of, so that'd work, though I'm not sure it'd provide much synergy.

[EnnPeeCee]

change shape is called out by warshaper, which is what humanoid shape is keyed off of, so that'd work, though I'm not sure it'd provide much synergy.

It might be interesting to build off of an Eldritch Glaive or Eldritch Claw Warlock, but I do agree that it doesn't really fit with the character that is being worked on.

[Chambers]

Before anyone asks, CE Soulborns are immune to Str penalties, and Tibbits are a race that can shape-change into a kitty form which imposes a -8 Str penalty, so if you combine the too you get a Kitty with the strength of a full sized human(oid).

Secondly, Stoneblessed is so you can count as a Goliath (race from Races of Stone) for all intents and purposes, the racial substitution level for Goliath Barbarians makes you large when you rage, note it isn't a size increase, it says you become large. So you have a kitty which can grow to the size of a horse and then grow tentacles, claws, pincers, stingers, wings (buffets), etc.


http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0084/2412/products/04_RK_Cathulhu_1024x1024.jpg?v=1404316412


That's great! Finally, a use for the Tibbit and the Soulborn in one build. :smallamused:

[WarKitty]

Yeah I'm just not seeing much that I like.

Tibbit is just too tiny.

Shifters have terrible stuff starting out and need at least 4 feats or several class levels to use more than once a day.

Werecreatures just have stupid LA.

PHBII druid predator form just has the wrong weapon going.

[CIDE]

Which houserule is your DM using for Warshaper's number of attacks? Or are you allowed to go with the full "I can get a new natural attack every time I use a move action, and they last forever, so I quickly become a giant ball of tentacles" RAW?

That's not RAW at all. RAW states that you get one of each type. So while you still get a rather impressive number of natural attacks it's limited only to the number of different attacks you can find. And unless the DM allows you to scour the MM's that pretty much leaves you with just the basic chart.

I see the argument you're making all the time from everyone and I've tried and tried time and time again and I can never see any way in RAW to read the entry as such.


The Hengeyokai race from Oriental Adventures can qualify with even less fuss than a Changeling. It had +1 LA with the Shapeshifter type, but recieved an update that removed the LA and made it a Humanoid (shapeshifter).
As a bonus, you choose one animal as your 'alternate form' (some argument over whether the animal is your true form, or the humanoid), and cat is an option.
Its less fuss because while some argue that the Changelings form altering isn't sufficient for Warshaper, no such argument is made against the Hengeyokai's hybrid form.

Otherwise build like you would with a changeling base, with anything that gets you the bab to qualify.

Also I dislike Divine Minion, its not a fair template, and its use often signals high op.


There is literally no way in raw to debate the validity of Changeling for Warshaper.

[Venger]

That's not RAW at all. RAW states that you get one of each type. So while you still get a rather impressive number of natural attacks it's limited only to the number of different attacks you can find. And unless the DM allows you to scour the MM's that pretty much leaves you with just the basic chart.

you can get more than you'd ever need (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286497-101-Natural-Weapons) with very little effort.

[Jeff the Green]

That's not RAW at all. RAW states that you get one of each type. So while you still get a rather impressive number of natural attacks it's limited only to the number of different attacks you can find. And unless the DM allows you to scour the MM's that pretty much leaves you with just the basic chart.

There are eighteen different kinds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286497-101-Natural-Weapons) of tentacle or indistinguishable-from-tentacle natural weapons. I'm fairly confident a kitty with eighteen tentacles thick enough to deal damage can be reasonably described as a "ball of tentacles".

[TypoNinja]

Yeah I'm just not seeing much that I like.

Tibbit is just too tiny.

Shifters have terrible stuff starting out and need at least 4 feats or several class levels to use more than once a day.

Werecreatures just have stupid LA.

PHBII druid predator form just has the wrong weapon going.

What are you expecting from your Warshaper? A were creature makes a very competent bruiser, the LA is basically for the stat adjustments, which if you lean str are more than worth it.

My Weretiger for example has a 37 str right now, and hes only got a +2 str item, the rest is racial. Getting 40 or higher is not hard, thats +15 (or more) to attack and damage per attack. I land a pounce and hit for more than 60 damage before I even start rolling dice. DR 10/silver is amazing. Pretty much nothing out of a printed book has the ability to overcome your DR, and 10 off each hit is amazing. I'm running this weretiger through the Savage Tide adventure path and honestly, not much hits him for very much damage. 2 or 3 fights so far where I've been in any danger of dieing, across something like 12 levels.

A strength mod in the teens more than offsets the 3/4 BAB, and the racial con makes up for d8HD on a front line fighter. Sure you give up class features by being a monstrous race, but a were creature still counts as his base race, so I got all those racial stat adjustments AND still get the extra feat and skill points for being human. Monstrous attacks instead of iteratives mean my accuracy is far better than a PC class would be, all 5 of my attacks are at the same bonus with the investment of 2 feats. I pick up scent which lets me find invisible creatures, track if I desire, and one wondrous item enchants all 5 of my natural attacks.

The benefits go on, this is an extremely capable bruiser and with Power attack and shocktropper you will put out enough damage to destroy any published adventure module, it might not be the pinnacle of power in terms of TO, but this will do the job.

Plus you get to be a big kitty :D

The only other major benefits you are going to see from warshaper are its level 5 power, fash/multi-morph, which you will typically skip on a were creature, can be amazing for other entries.

For example it basically gives a druid unlimited wildshape, since at that level you get 12 hours of wild shape, but only two uses. Being able to change your form at will effectively grants you unlimited uses as you just shapeshift into something else for whatever is needed. A 500gp Pearl of Speech (common) even gives you back your ability to speak while wildshaped.

Wizards entering with polymorph get a similar benefit.

All the Alternate Form entries only reduce your shape shifting from a standard to a move action, considering the last level of warshaper grants no BAB and no saves, its generally not worth it unless you plan on following it up with another PrC that further reduces the shapeshifting time to get it down to a free action.

[WarKitty]

Really what I want is a wereleopard (not tiger, I dislike large size) but something that doesn't have to start at level 6 or require house rules just to be playable. Something I can really play up the shaping without having to be a mid to high level build just to do the trick.

Edit: I don't even really want the super strength - honestly I'd just as soon take intuitive attack and be done with it. I don't care about hitting ubercharger levels near as much as I care about having full shifting, with claws, at level 1, without having super-short limits on when I can use it. That doesn't need to be any more powerful than a human barbarian, really.

[Jeff the Green]

I'm not certain it's possible to get an all-day/at will medium non-humanoid cat-like form with claws at ECL 1. The only way I can think of is Willing Deformity, Deformity (claws) and shapeshifter druid, and though I'm fairly sure it works by RAW a DM might nix it.

[WarKitty]

Yeah, I'm thinking the best bet would be to see if feral's LA could be traded out as a RHD instead. One hit die isn't too bad, and with shapeshift druid things could be managed at level 2, and even level 1 isn't too bad.

[CIDE]

you can get more than you'd ever need (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286497-101-Natural-Weapons) with very little effort.

Yeah, I've seen that thread. And that entire thing is all up to the DM and a majority of those are a big stretch for natural attacks.


There are eighteen different kinds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286497-101-Natural-Weapons) of tentacle or indistinguishable-from-tentacle natural weapons. I'm fairly confident a kitty with eighteen tentacles thick enough to deal damage can be reasonably described as a "ball of tentacles".


It's still a very long shot from the literally unlimited number of tentacles that can be figured out due to misreading.

[Forrestfire]

If you want to be a wereleopard, you could conceivably use a Savage Progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a). The online versions let you only take a single level, after all.

Be a natural were-leopard and take one level of Savage Progression LA. This nets you a controllable Alternate Form that does nothing other than turn you into a leopard. No natural attacks, ability score changes, hit dice, or natural attacks, just cosmetics. However, it's enough to qualify you for Warshaper, and you can add natural attacks with the class.

[Jeff the Green]

If you want to be a wereleopard, you could conceivably use a Savage Progression (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a). The online versions let you only take a single level, after all.

Be a natural were-leopard and take one level of Savage Progression LA. This nets you a controllable Alternate Form that does nothing other than turn you into a leopard. No natural attacks, ability score changes, hit dice, or natural attacks, just cosmetics. However, it's enough to qualify you for Warshaper, and you can add natural attacks with the class.

You have to take a level of wereleopard before you can take a level of leopard (lycanthrope), and only the latter give you HD, so you can't be one at level 1.


It's still a very long shot from the literally unlimited number of tentacles that can be figured out due to misreading.

Yes, but Urpriest was wrong on neither the literal ability to become a ball of tentacles or the need for a houserule, so I felt free to nitpick your nitpick.

[Forrestfire]

... I'm not sure where I implied you'd ever be taking levels of the animal hit die class. It's completely optional, and not something I'd recommend going for, when class levels do the "hit dice" bit better, and Warshaper does the natural weapons better.

You've got me on the LA, though. Could be afflicted and take the one level of Savage Progression at level 2, although you'd need to grab some Control Shape optimization. Hitting DC 25 consistently might take a feat and/or item. Maybe an Item Familiar and Masterwork Tool (silver ring inlaid with wolfsbane or something).

Or saying you were Natural and taking the class at level 2 is just the ability manifesting then, I guess.

[Jeff the Green]

... I'm not sure where I implied you'd ever be taking levels of the animal hit die class. It's completely optional, and not something I'd recommend going for, when class levels do the "hit dice" bit better, and Warshaper does the natural weapons better.

You've got me on the LA, though. Could be afflicted and take the one level of Savage Progression at level 2, although you'd need to grab some Control Shape optimization. Hitting DC 25 consistently might take a feat and/or item. Maybe an Item Familiar and Masterwork Tool (silver ring inlaid with wolfsbane or something).

Or saying you were Natural and taking the class at level 2 is just the ability manifesting then, I guess.

You didn't; the first clause was just to explain why the second is a problem.

Though Warkitty wants to play something starting at level 1. Otherwise Divine Minion would be perfect.

[Forrestfire]

Ah, my bad. Shouldn't make posts when tired.

Not sure how to do it at level 1... Web Enhancement Kobold Egoist 1 can Minor Change Shape into something hybrid were-leopardy, since it'd be bipedal and have claw/claw/bite. Could dip into the savage progression, buy it off at 3, and continue on to Warshaper as well.

[WarKitty]

You didn't; the first clause was just to explain why the second is a problem.

Though Warkitty wants to play something starting at level 1. Otherwise Divine Minion would be perfect.

Yeah I'm listening anyways. This is pretty much a "hey this would be really cool to play sometime" build right now, so I'm sort of tallying options for how to do it in ways that would adjust easily for different campaigns.

[Jeff the Green]

Ah, my bad. Shouldn't make posts when tired.

No worries.


=Not sure how to do it at level 1... Web Enhancement Kobold Egoist 1 can Minor Change Shape into something hybrid were-leopardy, since it'd be bipedal and have claw/claw/bite. Could dip into the savage progression, buy it off at 3, and continue on to Warshaper as well.

I like that one. If for some reason you want to avoid kobolds, psionics, or web enhancements, you can achieve the same effect with changeling and Deformity (claws). I'd prefer the kobold for obvious reasons, but it isn't strictly better; the changeling gets into Warshaper more quickly if it takes full-BAB classes.

Does any race LA 0 race have a medium quadrupedal alternate form? If so you could combine the options, with the Egoist ACF and Deformity (claws). Hengeyokai only go up to small with dogs, foxes, and raccoon dogs.

[Venger]

No worries.

I like that one. If for some reason you want to avoid kobolds, psionics, or web enhancements, you can achieve the same effect with changeling and Deformity (claws). I'd prefer the kobold for obvious reasons, but it isn't strictly better; the changeling gets into Warshaper more quickly if it takes full-BAB classes.

Does any race LA 0 race have a medium quadrupedal alternate form? If so you could combine the options, with the Egoist ACF and Deformity (claws). Hengeyokai only go up to small with dogs, foxes, and raccoon dogs.

no.

you could always just roll anthropomorphized animal of some sort and fluff it as walking on all 4s since it makes no mechanical difference. (assuming you use the biped rules for carrying capacity) since you don't like tibbit, hengeyokai, or any of these other options.

[Arbane]

Really what I want is a wereleopard (not tiger, I dislike large size) but something that doesn't have to start at level 6 or require house rules just to be playable. Something I can really play up the shaping without having to be a mid to high level build just to do the trick.

Edit: I don't even really want the super strength - honestly I'd just as soon take intuitive attack and be done with it. I don't care about hitting ubercharger levels near as much as I care about having full shifting, with claws, at level 1, without having super-short limits on when I can use it. That doesn't need to be any more powerful than a human barbarian, really.

You might be in the wrong rules-system for this, unfortunately. 3.5 seems to have a profound aversion to letting first-level characters have Nice Things.

[TypoNinja]

Really what I want is a wereleopard (not tiger, I dislike large size) but something that doesn't have to start at level 6 or require house rules just to be playable. Something I can really play up the shaping without having to be a mid to high level build just to do the trick.

Edit: I don't even really want the super strength - honestly I'd just as soon take intuitive attack and be done with it. I don't care about hitting ubercharger levels near as much as I care about having full shifting, with claws, at level 1, without having super-short limits on when I can use it. That doesn't need to be any more powerful than a human barbarian, really.


Hrmm if you want unlimited shape shifting without LA/RHD some kind of druid entry to warshaper is probably best, maybe wildshape ranger? That gets you in faster, but then you only have 5 hours of wild shape a day instead of 12, so you might wanna delay entry by one level anyway.

[Petrocorus]

Really what I want is a wereleopard (not tiger, I dislike large size) but something that doesn't have to start at level 6 or require house rules just to be playable. Something I can really play up the shaping without having to be a mid to high level build just to do the trick.

Edit: I don't even really want the super strength - honestly I'd just as soon take intuitive attack and be done with it. I don't care about hitting ubercharger levels near as much as I care about having full shifting, with claws, at level 1, without having super-short limits on when I can use it. That doesn't need to be any more powerful than a human barbarian, really.

I really don't see many ways you can do that at ECL 1. Divine Minion of Bast is ECL 3. Feral Changeling is ECL 2. Shifter is too limited in duration and uses per day. Druid or Wildshape Ranger wait for lvl 5.

I think the only solution is Shapeshift Druid. If i understood correctly (which is not granted), you get the Predator Form at lvl 1 and it can be that of a leopard, and it is unlimited in uses and duration. But i guess it is up to the DM if you can use this ACF. I guess it can qualify you for Warshaper as per the "Wild Shape or similar class feature" requirement of the Warshaper.

[Taveena]

To be faaaair, Chaotic Evil is - in addition to the alignment of omnicidal maniacs, mad berserkers, and Belkar - the alignment of utter hedonists. Which seems pretty appropriate for cats.

[Urpriest]

Yes, but Urpriest was wrong on neither the literal ability to become a ball of tentacles or the need for a houserule, so I felt free to nitpick your nitpick.

The whole "unlimited attacks" thing can certainly be argued. If you go with the "once you grow an attack, your form now has that attack, so further attempts at growing it just increase the size" then you also have to concede that you can increase the size without bound (except perhaps Colossal). If you argue that the new size is only one size greater than the size it would have for your base form, then you have to apply the same logic to gaining new attacks: since your base form doesn't have any new attacks that you've grown, the "if the warshaper's form already has a natural weapon of that type" language doesn't apply.

Regardless, as pointed out, this is irrelevant. Any given DM will have a preferred interpretation (which will not be "every natural attack you can scrounge from a book" unless said DM is from Tippy's circle), and there are enough distinct such interpretations that giving advice without knowing which interpretation we're dealing with is largely pointless.

Anyway, it does look like the precise thing you're looking for is going to be hard to put together. If I'm reading you right, you want the following:
1. Able to turn into
2. a quadruped
3. with claws
4. and a bite
5. at level 1

There are ways to have claws and a bite at level 1 (Web Enhancement Kobold). There are even ways to transform into a form with claws and a bite at level 1 (Psychic Warrior with Claws of the Beast and Bite of the Wolf). Neither of those are quadrupeds though. There are also, as mentioned, ways to transform into a quadruped with a bite at level 1 (Shapeshift Druid) and ways to sneak claws onto that (feats that give you claws). And of course, all this becomes much easier at higher levels.

Also, as mentioned previously, there is a variant on page 190 of Player's Guide to Faerun that lets you play a level-adjusted character at first level. It's reasonably balanced for low level adjustments like Divine Minion of Bast's +2.