Optimization Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXIII [Archive]

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Heliomance

2014-11-09, 05:46 AM

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef LXIII. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was 60 threads ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, November 23rd, 2014 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Heliomance. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, December 7thh, 2014 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

This month's Secret Ingredient is:
Magic of Incarnum's Witchborn Binder!
We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

Allez, optimiser!

The Builds
Lockdown Unit 4456 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18441655&postcount=139) LN warforged Incarnate 6/Witchborn Binder 10/Ranger 4
Skinner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18441663&postcount=140) LN dragonborn water orc Totemist 6/Witchborn Binder 9/Justiciar 5
Alana Kurudagnir (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18441667&postcount=141) CG female wild elf Ranger 2/Soulborn 3/Incarnum Blade 5/Witchborn Binder 10
Vedo D'Nigh (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18441673&postcount=142) NE illumian Cloistered Cleric 1/Incarnate 9/Witchborn Binder 10
The Doctor Belthataur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18441676&postcount=143) NE illumian Druid 1/Totemist 6/Witchborn Binder 10/Fleshwarper 3
Limier du Sorcier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18443139&postcount=168) LN male lupin Ranger 6/Bloodhound 2/Justiciar of Taiia 4/Witchborn Binder 8

Past Competitions

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142470)
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146583)
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148584)
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150595)
Iron Chef V: War Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152543)
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876)
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633)
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160266)
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162702)
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164381)
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166539)
Iron Chef XII: War Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9426386)
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172233)
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174434)
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176049)
Iron Chef XVI: Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202)
Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182492)
Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186097)
Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190607)
Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10976416)
Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198921)
Iron Chef XXII: Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206576)
Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210071)
Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214198)
Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217441)
Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220956)
Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224008)
Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227304)
Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229688)
Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346)
Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236908)
Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239786)
Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243052)
Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246072)
Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249542)
Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252923)
Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13865473)
Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255215)
Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260333)
Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263173)
Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266709)
Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270196)
Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274122)
Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279116)
Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15216595)
Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287314)
Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291294)
Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297327)
Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall to Orcus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302487)
Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307823)
Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312773)
Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317934)
Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325164)
Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330890)
Iron Chef LV: Mountebank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?336373-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LV)
Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342807-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVI)
Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?349040-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVII)
Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?357412-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVIII)
Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364667-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LIX)
Iron Chef LX: Lasher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?371835-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LX(II): Acolyte of the Ego (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372145-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXII)

Heliomance

2014-11-09, 05:47 AM

FAQ:
What's this even about? I'm glad you asked, actually... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415117&postcount=1)

Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Heliomance is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirements for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right? No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavourably on it.

What does the ban on arcane spellcasting classes mean? Exactly that. No arcane spellcasting classes. Warlock, etc, is fine. SLAs are fine.

How do Shape Soulmeld and Open X Chakra work? Shape Soulmeld grants an extra meld slot that can only be used for that soulmeld. Note that it still counts towards the limit determined by your Con score. The Open X Chakra feats essentially make binding to the opened chakra free.

Sian

2014-11-09, 06:27 AM

... ewww :smallyuk:

Amphetryon

2014-11-09, 08:01 AM

1. The blurb on the ban on Leadership is outdated, unless you've changed your screenname. :smallwink:

2. Competing, assuming Real Life doesn't hammer at me.

EDIT: So, there's some weirdness with Witchborn Binder and your lovely new Heroforge Anew Excel spreadsheet. The list checking qualifications calls Witchborn Binder #385, but it shows up as #389 on the actual 'Class' selection drop-down menu, which causes some issues in matching up progressing abilities. Witchborn Binder also shows up as having a d5 HD, which is not accurate. There were a couple other oddities, but they veer off toward speculation.

Kesnit

2014-11-09, 10:08 AM

I really like Incarum (and am playing a Totemist in a RL game). I can't resist.

In to judge.

Heliomance

2014-11-09, 11:06 AM

The Viscount

2014-11-09, 11:10 AM

Yikes. I'll see about this one, tentative yes for now.

Fax Celestis

2014-11-09, 11:14 AM

Is this LIX or LXIII? The description and title don't match.

Either way, competing.

Heliomance

2014-11-09, 11:23 AM

Venger

2014-11-09, 11:34 AM

Aw man, what'd we ever do to you? :smalltongue:

I'm gonna have to cook my ass chakra off for this one.

Zipding

2014-11-09, 11:42 AM

I will try to make a build, time permitting.

I'm in until further notice.

Deadasadoor

2014-11-09, 02:58 PM

Interesting ingredient. I haven't personally played a meldshaper in anything, so I hope I understand incarnum well enough to compete. I have a few ideas bouncing around already though.

A_S

2014-11-09, 04:25 PM

What's the deal with the action for Word of Abrogation? It says you have to ready an action first, but also that using it is an immediate action. Do you have to ready an action to do nothing, and then spend an immediate action to activate the ability as well?

I suspect the author just didn't know what an immediate action was :\ .

Heliomance

2014-11-09, 04:26 PM

WhamBamSam

2014-11-09, 06:26 PM

Took me a minute to figure out what's so bad about this class, but yeesh. I'm not sure I have any ideas for this beyond "drench it in cheese," so maybe I'll judge. We'll see.

Zipding

2014-11-09, 06:42 PM

I cannot come up with any ideas for this class. It's just so bad. I'll still try to compete and submit a build, but this class is so difficult to use without optimization.

Troacctid

2014-11-09, 08:14 PM

I kinda like it in gestalt.

copycatcat

2014-11-09, 08:47 PM

interesting... might do my first build for Iron Chef.

Fax Celestis

2014-11-09, 08:54 PM

Are we building creatures or characters? IE; do we have to worry about LA, or can I use a non-playable base monster for entry, for example?

Venger

2014-11-09, 09:01 PM

Are we building creatures or characters? IE; do we have to worry about LA, or can I use a non-playable base monster for entry, for example?

you're building characters. you can't use things with LA- or otherwise nonplayable monsters, races, templates, etc.

if you want to play something with listed LA or RHD, that's allowed. we have the inevitable "funny" lycanthrope in almost every round.

Zipding

2014-11-09, 09:28 PM

if you want to play something with listed LA or RHD, that's allowed. we have the inevitable "funny" lycanthrope in almost every round.

Let us all remember Jemaine the Hiphopopotomus from Scion of Tem Et Nu.

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-10, 12:34 AM

Let us all remember Jemaine the Hiphopopotomus from Scion of Tem Et Nu.

Quick somebody get Grandma Tanya in here, we have a situation on our hands.

copycatcat

2014-11-10, 12:46 AM

EDIT: Point, Venger. Thanks.

Venger

2014-11-10, 12:50 AM

Judgey people! How would you like us contestant-people to use the royal purse? Just add the 500*level/level to WBL?

we don't provide an equipment list for iron chef, so just ignore it.

Macabaret

2014-11-10, 04:45 AM

you're building characters. you can't use things with LA- or otherwise nonplayable monsters, races, templates, etc.

if you want to play something with listed LA or RHD, that's allowed. we have the inevitable "funny" lycanthrope in almost every round.

Out of curiosity, how does the community feel about using something without a listed LA? Note, I don't mean "LA: -". I mean that no LA is listed, even though the line "Advancement: by class" is there. What if a template doesn't list an LA line, but the example creature that follows does? Is it usable in an Iron Chef (and similar) contest or not?

Venger

2014-11-10, 04:57 AM

Out of curiosity, how does the community feel about using something without a listed LA? Note, I don't mean "LA: -". I mean that no LA is listed, even though the line "Advancement: by class" is there. What if a template doesn't list an LA line, but the example creature that follows does? Is it usable in an Iron Chef (and similar) contest or not?

No. It is not usable for Iron Chef. Please do not use it for Iron Chef.

I can't speak for other similar contests (zinc saucier, etc) since I'm less familiar and don't know their rules as well.

Heliomance

2014-11-10, 05:30 AM

Let us all remember Jemaine the Hiphopopotomus from Scion of Tem Et Nu.

I was rather fond of Little Starry Eyes, the Halfing Were-Chordevoc from Green Star Adept.

FAQs updated as people seem consistently confused about LA.

Venger

2014-11-10, 06:28 AM

FAQs updated as people seem consistently confused about LA.

thanks a lot, chair. I hope it makes a difference.

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-10, 10:25 AM

My mind is formulating an idea. Should be able to get a writeup done this round.

dysprosium

2014-11-10, 01:00 PM

I am definitely a fan of any incarnum classes. I've used incarnum on many of my Iron Chef builds.

Hopefully my real life will allow me to get a build in for this one.

On another note, I'm surprised that we moved on without having scores for the previous round. I can understand why considering the upcoming holiday seasons. There is just a feeling of emptiness--if that's the right word.

KingAtomsk

2014-11-10, 02:05 PM

I can't think of anything for this that doesn't set off my Blue Boring-er Alarm, so I shall judge.

Entertain me with your builds, peasants! Anyone who doesn't understand the name of my alarm is a double peasant!

Zaq

2014-11-10, 02:53 PM

I remember judging for Incandescent Champion, and I thought that was bad. But man, this class is a particular breed of terrible.

Piggy Knowles

2014-11-10, 04:05 PM

Hmm. I love Incarnum, but baby and work has meant I haven't had much time to build for IC lately. I very much doubt I'll get a chance to enter, but I'm sure build concepts will churn about in my head for the next couple of weeks...

(Actually, already have two ideas, but they both are pretty cheese-heavy. One even uses a previous IC ingredient!)

Venger

2014-11-10, 04:07 PM

I remember judging for Incandescent Champion, and I thought that was bad. But man, this class is a particular breed of terrible.

it's not every day that an SI's capstone actually makes you worse.

Zaq

2014-11-10, 04:21 PM

it's not every day that an SI's capstone actually makes you worse.

Green Star Adept was a while ago.

WhamBamSam

2014-11-10, 04:43 PM

it's not every day that an SI's capstone actually makes you worse.I can see that Grim Internment isn't all that great, and you're likely better off just taking other actions, but I must be missing something. Does it have anything to do with the ability granting concealment?

Venger

2014-11-10, 04:54 PM

I can see that Grim Internment isn't all that great, and you're likely better off just taking other actions, but I must be missing something. Does it have anything to do with the ability granting concealment?

the concealment issue is merely the ability itself not being useful. it alone does not actively make you weaker. I was referring to the fact that if your grim integument (because all your class features have really stupid names, like one of the writers got thesaurus-happy) is broken, the essentia you had invested in it is gone for 24 hours.

copycatcat

2014-11-10, 04:59 PM

Venger

2014-11-10, 05:01 PM

technically, then that's your fault for using the integument, when you could have been dismissing it. And it has 10/20 hardness/hp per essentia, so it's hardly fragile.

although soulmeld-unshapers.. just don't use it. Pretend that ability isn't there, and stick to the mage shackles. Or just, y'know, cage the guy who has a dispel prepared.

>my fault

you're blaming the victim here. we don't say to lvl 20 monks "it's your fault for losing your humanoid type so you can't be enlarged." I should be able to use my class features without shooting myself in the ass. let's not forget who the real enemy is:

witchborn binder.

copycatcat

2014-11-10, 05:03 PM

>my fault

you're blaming the victim here. we don't say to lvl 20 monks "it's your fault for losing your humanoid type so you can't be enlarged." I should be able to use my class features without shooting myself in the ass. let's not forget who the real enemy is:

witchborn binder.

No, at that point I was just saying 'don't use it unless you're taking out their only dispeller.'

And yes, the class does suck.:smallyuk:

Sian

2014-11-11, 07:14 AM

got a couple of questions for the chair

Special: May not possess any arcane spellcasting class levels.

How is this understood? is it banning:

Only Classes with Arcane spellcasting (ie. Wizard, Sorcerer etc)
Classes with Arcane Caster levels (as previous + Warlock, Dragonfire Adept)
Classes/Races with SLA's cast as Arcane Class XYZ? (say Forgotten Realms' elemental Genasi for which their SLA's are cast as a x'th level sorcerer)
CLasses/Races with SLA's of caster spells (Gnomes, as Ghost sound is core only an arcane spell)
any 5th kind of bracket?

---

How are Shape Soulmeld working together/against a class soulmelds? does it merely add an available soulmeld which you can use your max soulmelds for, or does it add a soulmeld slot only for the selected soulmeld?

---

Same question really for Open X Chakra feat (or power, or spell)

Heliomance

2014-11-11, 08:15 AM

got a couple of questions for the chair

How is this understood? is it banning:

Only Classes with Arcane spellcasting (ie. Wizard, Sorcerer etc)
Classes with Arcane Caster levels (as previous + Warlock, Dragonfire Adept)
Classes/Races with SLA's cast as Arcane Class XYZ? (say Forgotten Realms' elemental Genasi for which their SLA's are cast as a x'th level sorcerer)
CLasses/Races with SLA's of caster spells (Gnomes, as Ghost sound is core only an arcane spell)
any 5th kind of bracket?

---

How are Shape Soulmeld working together/against a class soulmelds? does it merely add an available soulmeld which you can use your max soulmelds for, or does it add a soulmeld slot only for the selected soulmeld?

---

Same question really for Open X Chakra feat (or power, or spell)

1) Only classes with Arcane spellcasting are banned.
2) As Shape Soulmeld can be taken by non-meldshapers, the only consistent interpretation I can really see is that it adds a soulmeld slot that can only be used for that soulmeld. Similarly for Open X Chakra - the only way to rule it consistently is to say that binding to that chakra becomes free.

Sian

2014-11-11, 09:38 AM

works for me ... wasn't hoping that a specific answer for any one of them was chosen, but more for a guideline so you don't fall into Elegance issues since judges might understand it differently, which would suggest it might be a good idea to add those answers to the FAQ

Troacctid

2014-11-11, 12:23 PM

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to use Grim Integument to capture them after you've subdued them. Witchborn Binder has that whole bounty hunter flavor thing going on.

Deadasadoor

2014-11-11, 03:26 PM

Finished my build stub, mostly. Just need to do flavor and skill points. I just hope it's as original as I think it is.

Venger

2014-11-11, 03:36 PM

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to use Grim Integument to capture them after you've subdued them. Witchborn Binder has that whole bounty hunter flavor thing going on.

or you could use an ingenious device known as "rope." :smalltongue:

EDIT: Big news, everyone! I found an artist who's interested in doing trophies. he'll be posting here soon.

zeifly

2014-11-12, 08:17 AM

Hi Everyone! I have been asked to draw some trophies for this competition. I'm happy and honored to be charged with this task. First of all, Heliomance, what style of trophy would you like to have? As soon as I hear from you i'll get started on them. I hope to make you all proud! Keep rolling and never stop!

-Z

Heliomance

2014-11-12, 08:22 AM

Yay, trophy artist!

I liked the trophies we've had in the past - so, something along these lines:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u163/The_Great_Strategos/StonelordTrophyAkalSaris.pnghttp://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5628/assassinouromini.png

Some sort of podium, with the contest number, the class name, the position, and the winner name, and a figure on the top representing the class - taken from the book art or otherwise. OotS style seems appropriate, bearing in mind where we are. And thank you very much for stepping up to make us trophies!

zeifly

2014-11-12, 08:26 AM

okay, so I'll start working on that. It may be a bit because I've got school, but I'll get it to you as soon as I finish it. Hope you like it! Never stop rolling!

-Z

Muggins

2014-11-12, 09:18 AM

Fax Celestis

2014-11-12, 10:32 AM

Heliomance

2014-11-12, 10:57 AM

I think it'll be interesting to see where the points in originality are going to be coming from this round. The only way I can see to get all 10 levels in the secret ingredient seems to be by taking levels in an incarnum class, since they're really the only way to get a meldshaper level. Is there some other way to get a meldshaper level that I'm just not seeing, like with the Shape Soulmeld feat?

My apologies if this delves too deeply into speculation.

Skarn Monk 10 gets you a meldshaper level, a single soulmeld, and the ability to bind to your Arms chakra...

Deepest apologies if anyone was planning on entering a Skarn Monk 10. You're insane.

Oh, wait - you'd need to be Monk 12 to get a meldshaper level of 6th. Never mind.

dysprosium

2014-11-12, 11:14 AM

Skarn Monk 10 gets you a meldshaper level, a single soulmeld, and the ability to bind to your Arms chakra...

Deepest apologies if anyone was planning on entering a Skarn Monk 10. You're insane.

Oh, wait - you'd need to be Monk 12 to get a meldshaper level of 6th. Never mind.

Well there goes my build down the drain . . .

zeifly

2014-11-12, 01:02 PM

http://imgur.com/YthjdWZ Okay, so I don't know if you guys can see the picture, but here I a rough sketch of the trophy. If you can see it, what do you think?

Troacctid

2014-11-12, 01:52 PM

Shape Soulmeld gives you a meldshaper level equal to half your character level, but that's too slow to leave room for all ten levels of Witchborn Binder. There are also monstrous races with inherent meldshaping abilities although I can't recall offhand if any of them are any good.

Venger

2014-11-12, 03:09 PM

http://imgur.com/YthjdWZ Okay, so I don't know if you guys can see the picture, but here I a rough sketch of the trophy. If you can see it, what do you think?

wow, that looks great. yeah that's just what we're looking for. it's displaying properly for me, so you're probably fine.

Sian

2014-11-12, 04:07 PM

http://imgur.com/YthjdWZ Okay, so I don't know if you guys can see the picture, but here I a rough sketch of the trophy. If you can see it, what do you think?

First thought was "why does he carry a flashlight?" ... then i noticed that it was a trophy

Venger

2014-11-12, 04:22 PM

First thought was "why does he carry a flashlight?" ... then i noticed that it was a trophy

it's a lady, like the sample witchborn binder it's modeled after.

zeifly

2014-11-12, 05:06 PM

First thought was "why does he carry a flashlight?" ... then i noticed that it was a trophy

Maybe she's scared of the dark! Ever think about that? Those dungeons can get pretty dark :P

daremetoidareyo

2014-11-12, 06:44 PM

Gonna try my hand at this one. It may be a bit...weird.

Sian

2014-11-12, 07:01 PM

think i'm starting to solidify on a build ... lets see if i can get it to work beyond stub format

copycatcat

2014-11-12, 07:41 PM

I've been done with crunch for a while, but a bunch of different options came to me on the fluff, and I'm in that proccess of deciding which backstory I want to use. And occasionally make minor crunch edits when I realize I did something wrong/stupid.

The Viscount

2014-11-13, 12:27 AM

http://imgur.com/YthjdWZ Okay, so I don't know if you guys can see the picture, but here I a rough sketch of the trophy. If you can see it, what do you think?

That looks amazing. If that's your rough, I'd love to see the finished product. We greatly appreciate your effort; it's been a while since we've had trophies.

OMG PONIES

2014-11-13, 09:27 AM

we don't provide an equipment list for iron chef, so just ignore it.

Please note, while equipment lists aren't a large focus in Iron Chef, ignoring a class feature of the Secret Ingredient is usually frowned upon as well. Classic Catch-22, ain't it? :smallbiggrin:

technically, then that's your fault for using the integument, when you could have been dismissing it. And it has 10/20 hardness/hp per essentia, so it's hardly fragile.

although soulmeld-unshapers.. just don't use it. Pretend that ability isn't there, and stick to the mage shackles. Or just, y'know, cage the guy who has a dispel prepared.

Wow, we're only on page 3 and we've already suggested ignoring 20% of the Ingredient's class features. If we keep up at this rate, we may wind up with folks suggesting to not even take Witchborn Binder! Hey, that's not a bad idea...

let's not forget who the real enemy is:

witchborn binder.

Fight the real enemy!

http://i59.tinypic.com/2vudf1s.png

Viva le MS Paint!

Deepest apologies if anyone was planning on entering a Skarn Monk 10. You're insane.

You overestimate the sanity of this group.

http://imgur.com/YthjdWZ Okay, so I don't know if you guys can see the picture, but here I a rough sketch of the trophy. If you can see it, what do you think?

Sweet, awesome, excellent, wunderbar, muy bueno, and welcome!

Gonna try my hand at this one. It may be a bit...weird.

http://img5.hostingpics.net/pics/553300Mr_Burns_Excellent_MF.jpg

Venger

2014-11-13, 09:34 AM

Please note, while equipment lists aren't a large focus in Iron Chef, ignoring a class feature of the Secret Ingredient is usually frowned upon as well. Classic Catch-22, ain't it? :smallbiggrin:
I was just trying to give a bit of friendly advice since in the past whenever so much as a piece of equipment is mentioned, I've seen dishes get slammed pretty hard, so it's probably not in his best interests. besides, your johnny dollar expense account is so small it's not really enough to do much with.

Wow, we're only on page 3 and we've already suggested ignoring 20% of the Ingredient's class features. If we keep up at this rate, we may wind up with folks suggesting to not even take Witchborn Binder! Hey, that's not a bad idea...
well it's not our fault for ignoring them, it's their fault for not doing anything. although you may be onto something there

Fight the real enemy!

http://i59.tinypic.com/2vudf1s.png

Viva le MS Paint!
lol, that's what I was going for, good catch.

You overestimate the sanity of this group.

Sweet, awesome, excellent, wunderbar, muy bueno, and welcome!

http://img5.hostingpics.net/pics/553300Mr_Burns_Excellent_MF.jpg[/QUOTE]

Deepest apologies if anyone was planning on entering a Skarn Monk 10. You're insane.

But how else am I supposed to practice for when you commit an act of unprovoked spinemeld warrior on us?

Heliomance

2014-11-13, 09:43 AM

But how else am I supposed to practice for when you commit an act of unprovoked spinemeld warrior on us?

Don't worry, that won't be until, ooh, probably March at the earliest.

Venger

2014-11-13, 09:45 AM

Don't worry, that won't be until, ooh, probably March at the earliest.

I'm sure we'll do something to deserve it between now and then.

Heliomance

2014-11-13, 11:10 AM

I'm sure we'll do something to deserve it between now and then.

It might evegn be a bit later thagn that.

Martimus Prime

2014-11-13, 11:11 AM

It's a bit late in the contest, but I'd like to throw my hat into the ring. I have a couple ideas bouncing around, and an eternal fondness for wonky anti-caster classes, so hopefully I can crank out something better optimized this time around...

Heliomance

2014-11-13, 11:14 AM

zeifly

2014-11-13, 11:28 AM

http://m.imgur.com/XkXQp6T,Mgl5ahQ,BpvpijB

Here it is! The finished drawing of the trophy! What do you guys think? I hope you like it. I'm honored to have been able to draw this for you guys! Never stop rolling!

-Z

Venger

2014-11-13, 12:15 PM

It might evegn be a bit later thagn that.

oh god gno... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74DeoFjmA74)

The Viscount

2014-11-13, 03:58 PM

It might evegn be a bit later thagn that.

The horror... The horror...

Zipding

2014-11-13, 11:30 PM

I think I finally have an idea on how to use this terribad class of suckiness.

Unfortunately, I have to make sure the rest of it isn't overshadowing the SI and asking the question "Why didn't you take anything else?"

I just found out that none of the Incarnum based classes actually have Use Rope as a class skill. This is going to be so much fun.

Heliomance

2014-11-14, 10:34 AM

Muggins

2014-11-14, 10:41 AM

*fumes*
Skarn Monk is an abomination. I'm trying to add it to HeroForge Anew, but that last ability! That Shape Soulmeld that breaks all the rules! I think that's going to take nearly as much effort as a full meldshaping class to implement, for one whole soulmeld! Gah!

Look at it this way: That means you're one step closer to adding all the other soulmeld classes later on! It'll be great! :smallbiggrin:

Venger

2014-11-14, 10:44 AM

*fumes*
Skarn Monk is an abomination. I'm trying to add it to HeroForge Anew, but that last ability! That Shape Soulmeld that breaks all the rules! I think that's going to take nearly as much effort as a full meldshaping class to implement, for one whole soulmeld! Gah!

Heroforge lacks the Skarn monk
If no one builds one
Will it really be missing?

Fax Celestis

2014-11-14, 10:57 AM

Heroforge lacks the Skarn monk
If no one builds one
Will it really be missing?

A haiku:

Skarn monk sucks so hard.
Why do you even bother?
No one will notice.

Heliomance

2014-11-14, 10:59 AM

Look at it this way: That means you're one step closer to adding all the other soulmeld classes later on! It'll be great! :smallbiggrin:

I've already done the others; the variant classes are basically the last bit of MoI I have left to do. But adding this one level of Skarn Monk is going to take a wildly disproportionate amount of effort for the actual effect.

Venger

2014-11-14, 11:02 AM

I've already done the others; the variant classes are basically the last bit of MoI I have left to do. But adding this one level of Skarn Monk is going to take a wildly disproportionate amount of effort for the actual effect.

now you know how people who have to take that one level of skarn monk feel.

WhamBamSam

2014-11-15, 06:12 PM

I should have time to judge over Thanksgiving, and I'm not gonna be submitting, so here's some criteria.

OriginalityStart from a baseline score of 3.

Up to 1 point of bonus or penalty based on whether the classes/race/ect you used were things I expected and whether they were used by other entrants. Known cheese or standard handbook fare will see a deduction here. As Totemist and Incarnate are the only ways to complete this SI pre-Epic, no bonus or penalty for those classes (though sub-levels, acfs, or the like may be another story), and some particularly ubiquitous races (human or essentially human) will similarly not be rewarded or penalized. Also note that I will only reward an unexpected racial or class choice if it actually serves a purpose within the build. No points for "shameless originality grabs."

Up to 1 point of bonus or penalty to a build doing something interesting or something we've all seen it before respectively. You can fill a common niche without incurring my wrath, but I'd like to see a new spin on it. Cool factor in your crunch may see a bonus here.

Up to a 0.25 point bonus if I find your fluff to be particularly excellent.

PowerStart from a baseline score of 3

Up to 0.75 point of bonus or penalty based on how beneficial or harmful the SI is to your build. A 0 is a build which isn't especially helped or hindered by having Witchborn Binder in it.

Up to 1.25 points of bonus or penalty for how well you do the things that you do. For example, if you're a front line fighter, how good are you at hurting things? If you're a caster, do you lose a lot of caster levels? Are your tricks easy to shut down and can you function if you can't go with your usual MO?

EleganceStart from a baseline score of 3.

Each failure to qualify for a non-SI class or feat results in a 0.5 point deduction. Qualifying for all such things gets you a bonus of 0.5.

Up to 1 point of penalty for questionable rules interpretations and for any cheese stinky enough to make it onto my personal ban list (note that I'm pretty cheese tolerant, in general). Avoidance of such things gets you a bonus of 0.5.

Up to 1 point of bonus or penalty based on the overall flow of the build and how well everything fits together. A clean, flowing progression will score more points, whereas something that feels awkward may be penalized. As with cheese, I'm not going to try to be especially punitive toward dipping, unless you're really asking for it. Note that I try not to reward "shameless elegance grabs" any moreso than I will "shameless originality grabs." For example, I may consider 2/3/5/10 more elegant than 5/5/10 depending on circumstances.

I'll assign a 0.25 point penalty for incurring multiclass penalties that can't be easily resolved by rearranging levels. They're a stupid, stupid rule, but they are a rule.

Up to 0.5 points of bonus or penalty if the build just screams classy or is especially distasteful in a way not quantified by the above.

Use of Secret IngredientStart From a Baseline Score of 1.

Good uses of the collective prereqs, Deetect Magic ability, and extra essentia are worth 0.25 points apiece.

Good uses of Dispelling Orb, Mage Shackles, Word of Abrogation, Spiritflay, Grim Integument, and meldshaping progression are worth 0.5 points apiece. Unlike the above category of abilities, you may receive partial credit (0.25 points) for these abilities if you make some use of them.

Any ability in which I feel you've gone "above and beyond" in your use will get an additional 0.25 point bonus (so 0.5 for the minor abilities and 0.75 for the major ones).

Failure to qualify for the SI will result in a -0.25 point penalty to each class ability, to a minimum of 0. So abilities that you neither use nor qualify for don't hurt you, but you need to qualify for the things you do use to get rewarded for them.

If you leave the SI early, but provide a convincing explanation as to why this is a better use of the secret ingredient (better use of the ingredient, mind, not just making your build better), then you will receive partial credit for abilities you miss.

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-16, 04:00 AM

I'm kinda annoyed atm. I was going to use [redacted], but [redacted], forced [redacted] instead. A curse upon you [redacted]!

Zipding

2014-11-16, 04:09 PM

I'm kinda annoyed atm. I was going to use [redacted], but [redacted], forced [redacted] instead. A curse upon you [redacted]!

I'm annoyed too. I had an idea, but had to change it due to the requirements for this class. I've got a good chunk of the build done, I'm going to look it over before detailing the strategies and backstory.

I also have to worry about the other stuff overshadowing the SI, which is very easy to do.

Sian

2014-11-16, 04:44 PM

*Scatches head* ... anyone that can come with a good reasoning why Mage Shackles and Grim Intugement are (Su) when they explictly call out that you have to check against Spell Resistance ... which is one of the major differences between (Sp) and (Su), (Su) usually not having to do it?

or should it be chalked down to writers not understanding the rules?

Troacctid

2014-11-16, 04:54 PM

Zaq

2014-11-16, 04:58 PM

Soulmeld-magic transparency. All soulmeld effects are SR: Yes by default.

That's all well and good, but Mage Shackles and Grim Integument are very much not soulmelds.

Troacctid

2014-11-16, 05:13 PM

That's all well and good, but Mage Shackles and Grim Integument are very much not soulmelds.

Right, so if they're going to be consistent with the rules for soulmelds, they need specific language in their description saying that spell resistance applies.

Sian

2014-11-16, 05:56 PM

my whole point is that if they were (sp) instead of (Su) they would have defaulted into "spell resistance applies" ...

from what i can see there is three different major differences between (sp) and (su)

1:

(sp) defaults to DC 10 + Spell Level + Cha
(su) defaults to DC 10 + ½ HD + Cha

neither of which are relevant since both abilities have specific types of saves

2:
(sp) is resisted by Spell Resistance
(su) aren't

abilities are (su) but explicitly note that they're targeted by spell resistance

3:

(sp) can be dispelled
(su) can't be dispelled

except for the fact that both abilites note that they can be unshaped, which is a subsystem specific name for dispelling, so they can be dispelled.

Tell me again ... is there any reason why they are (su) instead of (sp)?

Zaq

2014-11-16, 05:59 PM

Troacctid

2014-11-16, 06:40 PM

They are Incarnum-like abilities.

Heliomance

2014-11-18, 06:11 PM

Haven't had any entries yet. How's everyone doing?

Zaq

2014-11-18, 06:14 PM

I haven't come up with anything that's worth the effort of building. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that I'm not alone.

You may have gone too far, Heliomance. You may have found a PrC that's too bad for Iron Chef.

It doesn't help that there's literally only two methods of meeting one of the prereqs in time to take all ten levels of the SI.

Fax Celestis

2014-11-18, 06:20 PM

I had a neat concept I was tooling around with until I realized it didn't work. So now I'm looking at the ingredient going, "The only way I really can make this worthwhile is gestalt." Which just makes me feel gross inside. So I don't think I'm going to enter this one, just because I hate it more than it hates me.

Zipding

2014-11-18, 06:33 PM

Since everyone's having so many issues with this PrC, I'll see if I can finish my build on Saturday. It won't be good, but it will be an attempt at even using it.

Zaq

2014-11-18, 06:43 PM

Venger

2014-11-18, 06:52 PM

Hoping to win by default, Zipding?

I wouldn't be opposed to calling this one a wash and starting over with a fresh ingredient, because damn is this a bad PrC. I mean, if people actually have viable builds, I don't want to shut down anyone who was actually going to enter, but really, this is just bad.

combing through the thread, I think there are 4 chefs (including myself) in to cook which, using tactical soldier as a precedent, is enough to continue. on the plus side, judging should be quick.

I essentially am hoping to win by default due to complete lack of interest in this ingredient and being one of the regulars who's into incarnum.

Fax Celestis

2014-11-18, 07:01 PM

combing through the thread, I think there are 4 chefs (including myself) in to cook which, using tactical soldier as a precedent, is enough to continue. on the plus side, judging should be quick.

I essentially am hoping to win by default due to complete lack of interest in this ingredient and being one of the regulars who's into incarnum.

Is that counting the two of us that just stepped out?

Venger

2014-11-18, 07:11 PM

Is that counting the two of us that just stepped out?

no. my count is:

venger
zipding
kesnit
krimsonnekros

deadasadoor mentioned maybe cooking, but hasn't commented since, so I figure he wisely gave up.

Zaq

2014-11-18, 07:14 PM

Venger

2014-11-18, 07:18 PM

Technically, I never said I was in. I mostly just griped about how lackluster the ingredient is.

Like I said, if we have chefs who actually have ideas and the desire to press forward with them, more power to them. I'm not about to ruin anyone's fun just because I can't hack this ingredient. I just wasn't entirely surprised to hear that there were no entries yet.
right, which is why I didn't count you in my tally. I know how you feel, I had a rather long stretch where I couldn't enter either due to a complete lack of ideas. most recently with acolyte of the ego which was a... niche ingredient to say the least.

my guy's coming along pretty well. I should probably be able to send it in tomorrow.

what're people thinking for next round? I'd like to cook up a thunder guide.

Fax Celestis

2014-11-18, 07:27 PM

Has Alchemist Savant been done?

dysprosium

2014-11-18, 07:31 PM

I'm working on two different builds for this one. Hopefully real life will allow me to get them entered in time.

I also love the incarnum.

Venger

2014-11-18, 07:35 PM

Has Alchemist Savant been done?

no, we've never done that as an SI since dungeon lord was our first 5 lvl prc. i'd be game to try that for our next experimental round.

I'm working on two different builds for this one. Hopefully real life will allow me to get them entered in time.

I also love the incarnum.

>two

I can barely get it together for one build. how on earth are you doing two?

Amphetryon

2014-11-18, 07:40 PM

combing through the thread, I think there are 4 chefs (including myself) in to cook which, using tactical soldier as a precedent, is enough to continue. on the plus side, judging should be quick.

I essentially am hoping to win by default due to complete lack of interest in this ingredient and being one of the regulars who's into incarnum.

Now that I have finished the five, count them, FIVE papers due by the week's end, I can hopefully apply some spit and polish to the stub I've put together.

Deadasadoor

2014-11-18, 07:41 PM

I'm actually finished my full build, flavor and all. I'm fairly happy with how my build turned out, I just hope it isn't too similar to something someone else did. I actually had a second idea with some cool(in my opinion) flavor, but opted out for my current build, but maybe if I'm up for it I can get it done. All I need to really do is sit down and format it for entry, since I do everything in a google Doc for readability beforehand. Should be done Thursday/Friday though.

Sian

2014-11-18, 08:33 PM

still shuffling my two build ideas, trying to merge them somehow ... easier said than done through

dysprosium

2014-11-18, 09:30 PM

>two

I can barely get it together for one build. how on earth are you doing two?

Honestly I don't know. I'm not sure how either would pan out so it's like I'm hedging my bets so to speak.

I hope I can get at least one of them entered.

Venger

2014-11-19, 02:10 AM

Wrapping my chart. This ingredient is a real punishment. I'll finish the backstory and proof it in the morning. I should probably send it in tomorrow and be the first dish in.

Honestly I don't know. I'm not sure how either would pan out so it's like I'm hedging my bets so to speak.

I hope I can get at least one of them entered.

I know that game. Making two dishes is always really stressful. This is one ingredient that I don't think I could cook two dishes for without screwing myself over in originality.

arkangel111

2014-11-19, 02:54 PM

Been looking at builds myself but with effectively only 4 levels to make it unique it is hard to figure out a way that doesn't scream out just stick to a incarnum-class10/SI10 still throwing some things around but this is a stiff ingredient.

Piggy Knowles

2014-11-19, 04:48 PM

I decided to look at my two random build stubs to see if either one could be turned into a functional entry. The first is painfully cheesy - which I don't necessarily mind in and of itself, but for all its cheesiness, it's still not actually that good. It uses some cheap tricks to basically be better at using Witchborn Binder's abilities.... which still are kinda bad even when tricked out.

The second is actually more along the lines of something I'd enter, if a bit underwhelming... but on review, it doesn't actually qualify. Whoops!

I suspected I wouldn't have time to get an entry in this round, and the sheer mediocrity of this ingredient is turning that into a certainty.

Venger

2014-11-19, 05:04 PM

Honestly I don't know. I'm not sure how either would pan out so it's like I'm hedging my bets so to speak.

I hope I can get at least one of them entered.

good luck.

I decided to look at my two random build stubs to see if either one could be turned into a functional entry. The first is painfully cheesy - which I don't necessarily mind in and of itself, but for all its cheesiness, it's still not actually that good. It uses some cheap tricks to basically be better at using Witchborn Binder's abilities.... which still are kinda bad even when tricked out.

The second is actually more along the lines of something I'd enter, if a bit underwhelming... but on review, it doesn't actually qualify. Whoops!

I suspected I wouldn't have time to get an entry in this round, and the sheer mediocrity of this ingredient is turning that into a certainty.

oh dear, even you can't figure out something to do with an incarnum ingredient? doesn't bode well for us mere mortals.

the thing that's really burning me is there's no way to qualify early for this darn thing since you can't boost ML the same way you can CL.

daremetoidareyo

2014-11-19, 05:21 PM

I'm done the major part of the crunch, but the flavor slows me down quite a bit. How to make it engaging rather than straightforward, nah' meen? Stupid work/life balance issues also.

Deadasadoor

2014-11-20, 11:47 PM

Finally got off Dragon Age and submitted my build. How's everyone else doing?

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-21, 12:32 AM

I need to sit down and do the skill crunch still, but otherwise I'm mostly done.

Venger

2014-11-21, 03:18 AM

I'm finished with my dish. I just need to proofread and then I'll send it in.

Zipding

2014-11-21, 08:57 AM

I've got a good chunk of the crunch done, I just need to figure out soulmelds, strategies, and a backstory.

KingAtomsk

2014-11-21, 09:56 AM

Heliomance

2014-11-21, 11:09 AM

Build reveal may be a few hours late. I'm away this weekend, and I don't want to promise getting online Sunday morning - especially as I'm planning on going out Saturday night. They'll be up at some point on Sunday, though.

Venger

2014-11-21, 04:10 PM

I still plan on judging. I plan on using the same criteria as WhamBamSam

Sounds good to me.

Build reveal may be a few hours late. I'm away this weekend, and I don't want to promise getting online Sunday morning - especially as I'm planning on going out Saturday night. They'll be up at some point on Sunday, though.

That's fine. Thanks for giving us a heads up.

dysprosium

2014-11-21, 04:48 PM

Grumble grumble . . . real life . . . grumble grumble.

Still looking to get an entry in.

Sian

2014-11-21, 05:56 PM

Zipding

2014-11-21, 06:01 PM

I just realized earlier today that I need to completely rework my character, as it actually doesn't apply for the SI.

Great. These prerequisites are so difficult to qualify for for what you have to use to apply for it.

Venger

2014-11-21, 06:08 PM

not going to complete anyhows ...

Lack of time (EU4 Art of War and Binding of Isaac Rebirth drained my timeslots)

Lack of possibilities (Have to be meldshaper 6th)

Lack of Inspiration (How to make something remotely unique that doesn't suck)

And the fact that I think I have to admit that my skills are more in the diminutives such as Zinc Saucier, where its emulating something

I just realized earlier today that I need to completely rework my character, as it actually doesn't apply for the SI.

Great. These prerequisites are so difficult to qualify for for what you have to use to apply for it.

It looks like I might win by default after all. I was not expecting that. Can't wait to sig that sweet trophy.

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-21, 08:20 PM

It looks like I might win by default after all. I was not expecting that. Can't wait to sig that sweet trophy.

Oh no you don't! I'm skill crunching now, I will have this entry in on time!

Venger

2014-11-21, 08:38 PM

Oh no you don't! I'm skill crunching now, I will have this entry in on time!

I sent mine in an hour and a half ago. Best of luck to you. It'll be good to have some competition.

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-22, 03:16 AM

I sent mine in an hour and a half ago. Best of luck to you. It'll be good to have some competition.

And just finished the skill crunch. Just doing up my fluff and sources now.

Venger

2014-11-22, 03:40 AM

And just finished the skill crunch. Just doing up my fluff and sources now.

cool. sources are always tricky. I like to do mine as I do my table. it helps stop me from forgetting stuff like happened occasionally when I used to do sources last.

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-22, 05:35 AM

And Entry Away! *crosses fingers that everything is RAW legal this go round.*

Venger

2014-11-22, 05:44 AM

And Entry Away! *crosses fingers that everything is RAW legal this go round.*

hope it is! everyone seems to be having a lot of trouble qualifying this round. what's the deal? the skillreqs are... incredibly awkward (seriously wtf is up with religion, why not, uh, arcana, since we've got such a collective hate-on for arcanists) they're easily doable by the time you need to start taking SI levels, even if it probably involves a lot of cc ranks.

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-22, 06:11 AM

hope it is! everyone seems to be having a lot of trouble qualifying this round. what's the deal? the skillreqs are... incredibly awkward (seriously wtf is up with religion, why not, uh, arcana, since we've got such a collective hate-on for arcanists) they're easily doable by the time you need to start taking SI levels, even if it probably involves a lot of cc ranks.

Well the biggest problem seems to be the Level 6 Meldshaper requirement and being original.

Sian

2014-11-22, 07:24 AM

Its the main problem, but skill prerequsites aren't exactly helping, with them being very hard to get without one or more being fueled by CC (beyond Factorum / Able Learner hijinks)

Zipding

2014-11-22, 11:50 AM

I'm going to have to withdraw from entering this competition. I had a good chunk of the crunch done, and then realized that I didn't actually qualify for the SI. I'll post what my idea was after the reveal. Good luck to all the remaining chefs.

Venger

2014-11-22, 04:24 PM

Its the main problem, but skill prerequsites aren't exactly helping, with them being very hard to get without one or more being fueled by CC (beyond Factorum / Able Learner hijinks)
I know just what you mean. unlike CL, there aren't nearly as many ways to boost ML, which is super annoying

I'm going to have to withdraw from entering this competition. I had a good chunk of the crunch done, and then realized that I didn't actually qualify for the SI. I'll post what my idea was after the reveal. Good luck to all the remaining chefs.
oh, that's too bad. curious to see what it was. thanks.

Macabaret

2014-11-22, 05:31 PM

Alright, folks. Count me in among those with a build submitted.
Good luck to all.
And, as always, a big 'thank you' to the judge(s)!

Venger

2014-11-22, 05:39 PM

Alright, folks. Count me in among those with a build submitted.
Good luck to all.
And, as always, a big 'thank you' to the judge(s)!

Aw, man, you always win. Good luck to you.

daremetoidareyo

2014-11-22, 10:11 PM

My build is submitted. This is my first submission. I went with my much more flavorable approach. Keep in mind that this prestige class totally stinks, but I found a way to kinda rock it.

Venger

2014-11-22, 10:28 PM

My build is submitted. This is my first submission. I went with my much more flavorable approach. Keep in mind that this prestige class totally stinks, but I found a way to kinda rock it.

well, good luck! the viscount won gold his first time in geomancer. well, a flavorful build doesn't mean it can't do well mechanically (insert mandatory stormwind explanation, discussion, and argument) whew, glad that's over with.

Yeah, witchborn binder is startling in its awfulness. I can't wait to see what the rest of you guys came up with. I'm pretty proud of my dish this time around.

Heliomance

2014-11-23, 04:32 AM

Didn't go out last night after all, so I'm awake and not hungover! Incoming builds in 3... 2... 1...

Heliomance

2014-11-23, 04:34 AM

Iɴsᴛʀᴜᴄᴛɪᴏɴ: Sᴜʀʀᴇɴᴅᴇʀ, ᴍᴇᴀᴛʙᴀɢ

LOCKDOWN Autoguard: Mark 4, Unit 4456
incarnate 6/10 witchborn binder/4 ranger
LN warforged
str 15+1=16, 12 dex, con 16+2+4=24, int 13, wis 14-2=12, cha 8-2=6

The shopkeeper felt a sting as the sorcerer's thug hit him. “Like that? That’s what it’s going to be like until you pay us, old man”. The old man shed a tear as a raven flew overhead and landed on the rooftop, staring down at him with oddly intelligent eyes. The sorcerer muttered a few words and a small orb of fire appeared in his hand. “If you don’t have my gold by tomorrow, we’ll torch your shop.” snickered the man. A whirring and heavy footsteps drew near. The thug holding him threw the shopkeeper to the ground. The raven rose and flew towards a stern warforged, landed on it’s shoulder, squawked once and then left. The sorcerer and his men had now noticed the warforged. “I am a LOCKDOWN Autoguard Unit, Mark 4: number 4456, created to keep the peace. Magic for benign purposes is illegal, citizen. Submit for arrest”, stated the metal man. “If you do not submit, I will be required to use force.” The sorcerer laughed and tossed his orb of fire towards the robotic guard. As it was about to hit, a blue veil surrounded Unit 4456 and absorbed the blast. “Very well, under code AT-26, I am authorized to use force to arrest you.” The first thug drew a scimitar and charged the warforged. It sidestepped and grabbed the attacker by the throat. 4456’s body glowed as the thug was electrified. He screamed and then fell to the ground limply. The warforged began to move towards the thugs and manifested a shimmering flail from nowhere and slammed the second thug with it, knocking him out cold. The sorcerer turned to run, but fell to the ground retching as he felt some of his magical essence torn from him, and then chains wrapping around his body. 4456 picked up the shopkeeper and dusted him off. “You are safe now, citizen. Please report further criminal activity to the guard post. Good day.” The metallic guard picked up the sorcerer over his shoulder and carried him to the jail. That was the first and last time the shopkeeper ever met Unit 4456.

LOCKDOWN is not an individual, but a group of warforged specifically built to eliminate spellcasters who would use their powers to their own benefit. They use adjustable components that mimic the soulmelds that lawful Incarnates draw from. Highly resistant to magic and extremely tough to kill, the newer LOCKDOWN’S can use magic-nulling chains and prisons to apprehend dangerous spellcasters. Unit 4456 was the first of the LOCKDOWN’s to be upgraded to Mark IV, and has already made leaps and bounds in it’s effectiveness.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Ranger 1
+1
+2
+2
+0
4 Search, 2 Use Rope, 2 survival, 4 spot, 4 listen, 4 hide,2 jump, 4 move silently,1 knowledge arcana
Track, Mithril Body
Favored enemy(Arcanists), Voice of the City

2nd
Ranger 2
+2
+3
+3
+0
4 Search, 2 Use Rope, 2 survival, 4 spot, 4 listen, 4 hide,2 jump, 4 move silently,1 knowledge arcana, 1 sense motive
TWF
Combat Style(TWF)

3rd
Incarnate 1(Lawful N)
+2
+5
+3
+2
4 Search, 2 Use Rope, 2 survival, 4 spot, 4 listen, 4 hide,2 jump, 4 move silently,1 knowledge arcana, 3 spellcraft
Combat Expertise
Aura, Detect Opposition, Soulmelds

4th
Incarnate 2
+3
+6
+3
+3
4 Search, 2 Use Rope, 2 survival, 4 spot, 4 listen, 4 hide,2 jump, 4 move silently,1 knowledge arcana, 4 spellcraft, 2 sense motive
-
Chakra Bind(crown)

5th
Incarnate 3
+3
+6
+4
+3
4 Search, 2 Use Rope, 2 survival, 4 spot, 4 listen, 4 hide,2 jump, 4 move silently,1 knowledge arcana, 4 spellcraft, 2 sense motive
-
Expanded soulmeld capacity

6th
Incarnate 4
+4
+7
+4
+4
4 Search, 2 Use Rope, 2 survival, 4 spot, 4 listen, 4 hide,2 jump, 4 move silently,1 knowledge arcana, 4 spellcraft, 2 sense motive, 3 knowledge religion
Mage Slayer
Chakra Binds(feet, hands)

7th
Incarnate 5
+4
+7
+4
+4
4 Search, 2 Use Rope, 2 survival, 4 spot, 4 listen, 4 hide,2 jump, 4 move silently,1 knowledge arcana, 4 spellcraft, 2 sense motive, 4 knowledge religion
-
Rapid Meldshaping

8th
Incarnate 6
+5
+8
+5
+5
-
-
-

9th
Ranger 3
+6
+8
+5
+6
-
Alertness, Endurance
-

10th
Ranger 4
+7
+9
+6
+6
-
Improved Trip
Urban Companion, Champion of the wild

11th
Witchborn Binder
+7
+9
+6
+8
-
-
Detect magic, meldshield,royal purse

12th
Witchborn Binder 2
+8
+9
+6
+9
-
Knockdown
Dispelling orb, Essentia +1

13th
Witchborn Binder 3
+9
+10
+7
+9
-
-
-

14th
Witchborn Binder 4
+10
+10
+7
+10
-
-
Mage Shackles

15th
Witchborn Binder 5
+10
+10
+7
+10
-
Shocking Fist
-

16th
Witchborn binder 6
+11
+11
+8
+11
-
-
Worb of abrogation, Essentia +1

17th
Witchborn Binder 7
+12
+11
+8
+11
-
-
-

18th
Witchborn Binder 8
+13
+11
+8
+12
-
Pierce Magical Protection
Spiritflay

19th
Withborn Binder 9
+13
+11
+8
+12
-
-
-

20th
Witchborn Binder 10
+14
+11
+8
+13
-
-
Grim Integument, Royal purse 1/year

I’ve only included the skills required for prerequisites, but this is a general outline of what I would do with them:
Having the drop on any enemy spellcaster is useful, especially since we have divination resistance, and a few ranks could go into hide and move silently even though it's cross-class. Equipment could enhance our ability to sneak, since we have a low DEX.
Intimidate, and sense motive are important social skills and should have a decent number of ranks.
Spellcraft is a class skill, and lets us know what kind of mages we’re dealing with. Maxed, if possible.

1-5
Mark I
2 ranger/3 incarnate
Not much to see here. Ranger gives TWF early, track, and the skills we need to qualify for WBB. Favoured enemy(arcanists) is taken for fluff and function, and wild empathy is traded for Voice of the City. It’s a shame Urban tracking doesn’t qualify for the SI, of I would have taken Urban Ranger. Incarnate gives us a few more options, lightning gauntlets and incarnate weapon are taken for soulmelds. Mithril body is taken for early game AC, and can be enchanted with Nimble later to have no skill penalty. Adamantine body was an option, but we need to close the gap as soon as possible and it’s hard to do when everything runs faster than you. Combat expertise is taken to qualify for improved trip later on.

6-10
Mark II
4 ranger/6 incarnate
Urban companion(web enhancement)(a raven) is taken instead of a regular companion to get something that can is both intelligent and can fly to help Unit 4456 look for criminals. Technically, because it counts as a familiar it grants alertness, which is needed for Witchborn Binder. Unfortunately, that is beyond cheesy and I decided not to go with that. The champion of the wild variant gives up spellcasting for a bonus feat. Mage slayer and alertness are taken at levels 6 and 9. The champion of the wild is taken as an alternate to spellcasting, since we end up with a -8 CL from the mage slayer line anyways, and take improved trip as our bonus feat. We have a few more options for meldshaping now, with hands, feet, and crown now all available for binds. We can bind airstep sandals for a very limited flight, lightning gauntlets to buff up our regular attacks, and Enigma Helm for divination resistance and immunity to charm effects. Incarnum radiance helps our to-hit, and rapid meldshaping is useful if we need to swap out a soulmeld for something else.

11-15
Mark III
At level 10 we enter the Secret ingredient. Detect magic at will allows Unit 4456 to hunt down potential harmful spellcasters by their buffs and items. Meldshield can help out our lower saves. Extra essentia is always welcome. Mage shackles gives a bit more versatility in dealing with spellcasters. The fact that the shackles only work up to large size isn’t great, and the spell resist is worse. At least Mage Slayer prevents defensive casting, which would force a threatened opponent to take an AOO to cast. More on that later. Dispelling orb can give some good options in dealing with spellcasters in the early stages of combat, and should be used before the shackles, or in a surprise round for freedom of movement or things like polymorph. Knockdown is taken, since we should be able to reliable trigger it, but our trip bonus is lacking, only coming out to a +7.

15-20
Mark IV
We finish off the secret ingredient and gain a few tools. A counterspell, not bad, but our meldshaper level is fairly low. Spiritflay is actually pretty good, since it’s based off con, and nauseates casters. This is probably the most devastating ability in WBB. Then we have the capstone. There are alot of things wrong with it. Spell resistance? Check. Crummy save? Check. They can still cast? Check. They get fortitude saves to resist the damage they take from casting? Check. At least the spell’s are limited to verbal only, but metamagic exists for a reason. More on this in the of Use of Secret Ingredient. Our final feat, though taken late, is highly effective here. Pierce magical protection dispels EVERYTHING that grants a magical Ac bonus, with a damaging melee attack. Pair it with knockdown to say “No” to the now fragile casters. This includes haste, mage armor, protection from X, maybe even polymorph dependant on the DM. I feel like this is the strongest point in the build, since we have the largest number of options available to deal with threats.

14 Essentia
Soulmelds-
These are our primary soulmelds. The number beside them indicates how much essentia is invested at all times, no number indicating it either doesn’t require essentia to be useful, or it is one of our floating soulmelds.
Incarnate Weapon(Energy Weapon) (bind, arms)-4 +4 to hit/damage. Helps out our low BAB.
Vitality Belt(Extra Armor)- +12 health/essentia invested
Spellward Shirt (Force Field)-5 grants 25 SR
Airstep Sandals(Jump Jets)- 10 feet of limited flight.
Enigma Helm(Radar Jammers)(bind)- Divination resistance and charm immunity.
Lightning Gauntlets(Overcharged Capacitors)(bind, hands)-Xd6 electricity damage/essentia invested on one melee attack/round

Shocking Fist can be combined with Lightning Gauntlets for a total of 1d4+STR +14d4 electricity, +Xd6 electricity. Vitality belt acts as an extra buffer to our hp for use with shocking fist. Our goal with essentia is to have 4 or more floating points for use in Lightning gauntlets or WBB abilities.
The 6/10 meldshaping at least prevents it from being completely awful and the abilities are actually overall decent. The strategy here is to create a series of hoops that a caster has to jump through in order to cast, and hopefully make life hell for them.
Detect Magic at will-
Always useful. Hunt down spellcasters through their magic items and buffs.

Meldshield-
Our saves aren't terrible per say, but if we need to dump damage and focus on defense for a bit some essentia can come out of Lightning Gauntlets and Incarnum Weapon.

Royal Purse-
This could easily be fluffed as Unit 4456 going in for upgrades, getting new warforged components or the like. One component to note is the tracker’s mask, which would allow tracking by scent.

Dispelling Orb-
An at will dispel magic is useful. Dumping essentia it can put it up to a +17 check. Knock that polymorphed sorcerer off his high horse after shackling him. Or better yet, burn off freedom of movement or blur.

Extra essentia-
Always useful, helps us fuel our abilities.

Mage Shackles-
The low-medium caster level check can only be pumped up to a 27 DC (10+12+5), which is trivial for higher level spellcasters, but crippling for lower level casters. Entanglement and dimensional anchor are major debuffs that help start the lockdown cycle. Now pair this with mage slayer to make a caster unable to cast defensively. Between entangled and dimensional anchor, they aren’t getting far. Now to make things meaner. If a caster passes the CL check, and decides to take the AOO from being unable to cast defensively we can use Shocking Fist(free action) to add up to 14d4 of electricity damage and push the concentration check up to prevent casting.

word of abrogation-
No spell slots to burn on counterspells? No needed spellcraft check? Not actually that bad. This could easily be used if you have the drop on a spellcaster and they begin to buff without knowing that you’re there. Wasted spell slots can ruin anyones day. Otherwise, not a great deal of combat use.

Spiritflay-
Fort save? Yes. Based on witchborn binder level plus our big CON? Yes. Nausea? Yes.
The damage is alright but at least it scales with essentia. This is a big part of our lockdown build.

Grim Integument-
I like the idea of this ability a lot, but it’s execution is so poor. The save caps out at a sad, sad 21 and allows spell resistance. The worst part about this is that you lose essentia and become fatigued if it is destroyed, but 50 hardness and 100 health can mitigate that against all but the angriest uberchargers, and warforged are immune to fatigue anyways. Paired with Mage shackles, to prevent a dimension door(which is verbal only) it’s an effective way to take someone out of a fight and deal with other enemies. I would like to note that Spiritflay does not explicitly say it needs line of sight to be used, and could be used to keep a prisoner nauseated/unable to do anything.

Combat Strategy:
1.Spiritflay/Deal with melee mooks.
2.Move in for the knockdown, using Pierce Magical Protection to dispel any bonuses to AC, or dispel freedom of movement if needed with dispelling orb.
3.Shackle a foe
4.Use spiritflay to (hopefully) nauseate a spellcaster
5.The arcane caster is now entangled, prone, nauseated, unable to cast defensively, and dimensionally anchored. Continue using Spiritflay to damage/nauseate. If they try to get up they provoke an AOO.
6.Rinse and repeat, deal with minions as needed, or use Grim Integument to take a spellcaster out of the fight.
For a different turn on the fluff, Soul Eater was a first choice for me, because a soul-draining, magic-destroying robot is nightmarish for anyone involved. But I felt like this subtracted too much from Witchborn Binder so I decided to go down the path of ranger instead.

Warforged juggernaut was something I also tried to make work, but the feat tax was just too heavy. I could technically have made it work, but I would have had to sacrifice the knockdown line, and shocking fist, reducing our utility for immunities.

I did want to take open chakra(arms) to bind Incarnum weapon to get that sweet stun on hit, however the low save (around 16, based on wisdom) made it worthless and I opted for the much more usable knockdown. That would also free up another feat, allowing expanded essentia capacity to be taken and put onto spellward shirt for higher spell resistance.

Why the early multiclassing?
I realize weird multiclassing is frowned upon in IC, but I feel like it adds some things to the build. Ranger is a stronger early level start, with better skills, HD, BAB, and free TWF. The Incarnate levels afterwards give some neat tools like limited flight, more health, and the Incarnate weapon for some decent to-hit/damage. It is followed until level 6 for consistency to keep our soulmelds strong before we jump back into ranger to grab the bonus improved trip and Urban Companion. Waiting to finish the SI is worth it since taking the ranger levels afterwards would be completely useless.

Races of eberron- warforged, mithril body
players guide to eberron-shocking fist
complete arcane- mage slayer line
magic of incarnum- incarnate, WBB
complete divine-ranger variants
cityscape web enhancement-urban familiar
sword and fist-knockdown

Heliomance

2014-11-23, 04:36 AM

D'you feel lucky? Well? Do ya? Punk?

Skinner

http://heroesofnewerth.ucoz.ru/images_for_news/MODS/Flint-OrcNoName/FlintNoName1.jpg

before ability mods
str 16 dex 14 con 16 int 14 wis 8 cha 8
after
str 20 dex 12 con 20 int 12 wis 6 cha 6

increases go to con

LN mind aspect dragonborn water orc totemist 6/witchborn binder 3/justiciar 5/witchborn binder 9

Skinner’s traps were full less often with every passing day. It wasn’t especially long ago that he had more hares and squirrels caught in his snares than he knew what to do with.

Now, he was trudging through rivers hoping for the odd morsel of salmon caught swimming upstream. Even these were far less plentiful than they once were.

The nearby settlement across the river had been growing rapidly. The more people came into town, the harder it was to find things to hunt.

Skinner knew eventually he’d have to make his way into town, something he wasn’t looking forward to, but after his traps had sat empty for days, he saw he had little choice.

He left his weapons at home before crossing the river. The last thing he needed to give the men in town a reason to kill him. Besides, the spirits of the departed beasts whose pelts he carried at his hip gave him all the offensive punch he needed.

He approached during the day to ward off accusations of trying to sneak into town as a spy for his tribe and dragged his bare feet across the dusty ground whenever he saw a woman walking alone so they couldn’t claim he was trying to sneak up on anyone. He mentally repeated the rules of going into the human settlement to himself to stay calm: don’t speak until spoken to, don’t look anyone in the eye, no sudden movements.

Skinner pushed the swinging doors to the tavern open and went inside. He sat down on a stool and waited for the innkeeper to come over.

“What’ll it be?” he said before turning around.

“Whiskey, please,” Skinner said and set a handful of seashells on the bar.

When he saw Skinner, his expression changed and he reached for a gun under the bar.

“Listen, pal, I don’t want any trouble,” he said.

Skinner blinked. “Neither do I, pal,” he said slowly in Common.

The innkeeper scowled. “What’s that?” he said with a nod toward the shells.

“Payment,” Skinner said.

“That ain’t money. You got any gold or silver?”

Skinner shook his head. It didn’t look like he’d be able to buy supplies here if they didn’t accept his tribe’s currency.

“Then get out. Can’t you read the sign? No orcs.”

Skinner glanced over to where the innkeeper was pointing. He couldn’t read Common, but didn’t want to give him the satisfaction of admitting it. Below the sign, he saw a poster of two men with the same face. He recognized the shape of the word: WANTED and the symbol for money underneath it.

He rose slowly from his stool and tore the poster from the wall.

“If I bring these men back, will this money buy supplies?”

The innkeeper laughed.

“You bring back them dvati boys, you can drink here for free. Reward on their heads’d just about buy up the general store.”

Skinner nodded and backed out.

He had work to do.

The sheriff in town was more helpful, telling Skinner the wanted men’s names and their crime, killing a young boy in town.

Skinner touched the pelt of the worg at his hip and let his senses open wide, ready to follow the spoor.

It was quite some time before he found any sign of them, tracks from a pair of horses leading into the woods, probably to give the human authorities the slip. It wasn’t a mistake skinner planned to make.

The arms of the mighty girallon, who he had felled long ago, reached from his sides and helped him climb a nearby tree. The vantage point from the canopy would let him see further than on the ground, and the eyes of soul-captured beasts helped boost his vision further.

His dragon blood had long aided him in his hunts. Now was no exception. He saw a dove flying, its wings beating against the current of the air. It must be fleeing from something on the forest floor.

His muscled arms let him swing from branch to branch without giving himself away. Skinner held his breath and perched on a limb strong enough to hold his weight.

The dove was struck a moment later by a bolt of lightning. Skinner knew it wasn’t from the sky gods above, the sun still shining without a cloud overhead. That and it had come from below, not above.

He blocked out the rustle of pine needles and the whisper of breeze, trying to pinpoint its location.

“Go get him,” one voice said.

“I shot him, you get him,” the same one said as if in response.

“Lazy sumbitch,” the first muttered.

Skinner shaded himself beneath a branch and saw the men below him, perfectly twinned. One lounged by a small campsite, the other picking through the underbrush for the dove’s carcass.

The one at the camp breathed a spark of flame onto a pile of wood.

Skinner recognized dragon blood when he saw it. He bit his tongue. Men like this brought shame to them all. It was no wonder they were regarded as dangerous animals.

Despite his instinct to pounce, he knew his odds were better with surprise on his side. He reached to the pack on his back, unspooled a few coils of rope and got to work.

Lee woke up first, like he usually did. He gave Lo a nudge in the ribs.

“You get the wood,” Lee said.

“Why I gotta do it?” Lo whined.

“I did it yesterday, now get,” Lee said and shooed him off.

Lo stretched and rubbed the crust of sleep from his eyes. They were far enough away from town no one should find them as long as they kept lying low.

A few dead limbs sat piled under a tree, so he stooped to pick them up.

Something landed on his neck. Probably a few deadfall leaves. Lo scooped up the branches and tilted his head to shake them off. He took a step back to the camp ground but found himself caught. Lo turned to check his shirt to see if it was stuck to the tree with sap.

Lo’s feet were lifted off the ground, something tightening around his neck. He belched out a gout of flame as a reflex, but it did nothing to loosen the noose around his neck. He kicked at the air and scratched at the cord with his claws.

Red and black swam around the edges of his vision. He tried to cry out for his twin, but had no breath. He opened his mouth and called lightning from the dragon blood inside him. The peal of thunder got Lee running.

Lee looked up at the branch above him. Someone pulling on the noose, no doubt. He stopped in his tracks to assess the situation.

“Stop it! You’re killing him!” Lee shouted. He fired a bolt of lightning at the hangman above.

There was no smell of burning flesh afterwards, but it did cause him to drop his rope. Lo got to his feet and set the tree on fire, trying to smoke him out, whatever he was.

Lee told him without opening his mouth their aggressor was an orc with four arms. Lo returned the telepathic message, saying he couldn’t talk, but could still breathe.

He pointed up the tree where he saw motion. Between the two of them, they had it blazing heavily in short order.

Lee said to wait for him to fall so he couldn’t sneak up on them. Lo stood back to back with his twin.

The orc appeared off to their side, stepping out from a hole in the air, his bare chest covered with the pelt of a blink dog that looked as though it was growing from his very skin.

He leapt upon Lo and crushed him tight with his lower arms, pulling his wrists and ankles together until something cracked.

Lee told him in his head he wouldn’t breathe in case he burned him. Lo held still.

The orc above called a pair of blue manacles into existence around Lee’s wrists. He opened his jaws, but nothing came out of his mouth.

The orc dropped him across back of one of the horses they’d stolen. He got on Lee’s himself and tied his cuffs to the saddle horn with a length of rope.

Lee told him not to fight. He didn’t argue.

Skinner dropped his quarries off with the sheriff and collected his reward. He furnished himself with the things he needed to continue collecting bounties: a horse of his own, gear, and provisions for the road. As he suspected, there was another poster waiting for him when he got back.

He tipped the hat he’d gotten himself and went to the inn with what remained of his reward. He tossed the wanted poster of the dvati on the counter, an X drawn across their twinned faces.

The innkeeper turned to him with surprise.

Skinner smiled and took a seat.

“Whiskey, please.”

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Totemist 1
+0
+2
+2
+0
know (religion) 4 (2), search 4 (2), sm 4, survival 4 (2), use rope 4 (2)
Alertness
Wild empathy, illiteracy

2nd
Totemist 2
+1
+3
+3
+0
tumble 5

Totem chakra bind (+1 capacity)

3rd
Totemist 3
+2
+3
+3
+1
know (religion) 2 (3), search 2 (3), tumble 1 (6)
Track
Totem’s protection

4th
Totemist 4
+3
+4
+4
+1
gather info 4, tumble 1 (7)

5th
Totemist 5
+3
+4
+4
+1
gather info 1 (5), know (religion) 2 (4), search 2 (4)

Chakra binds (crown, feet, hands)

6th
Totemist 6
+4
+5
+5
+2
spot 3, tumble 2 (9)
shape soulmeld (mauling gauntlets)
Totem chakra bind (+1 meldshaper level)

7th
Witchborn Binder 1
+4
+5
+5
+4
search 1 (5), spot 1 (4), survival 3 (5)

Detect magic, meldshield, royal purse 1/level

8th
Witchborn Binder 2
+5
+5
+5
+5
spot 3 (7), tumble 2 (11)

Dispelling orb, essentia +1

9th
Witchborn Binder 3
+6/+1
+6
+6
+5
spot 4 (11), tumble 1 (12)
Skill focus (gather info)

10th
Justiciar 1
+7/+2
+6
+6
+7
listen 2, spot 2 (13), tumble 1 (13)

Bring 'em back alive, nonlethal strike +1d6

11th
Justiciar 2
+8/+3
+6
+6
+8
listen 2 (4), spot 1 (14), tumble 1 (14)

Improved grapple, crippling strike

12th
Justiciar 3
+9/+4
+7
+7
+8
use rope 5 (7)
Open Lesser Chakra (shoulder)
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (manacles), street savvy +2

13th
Justiciar 4
+10/+5
+7
+7
+9
use rope 5 (12)

Nonlethal strike +2d6

14th
Justiciar 5
+11/+6/+1
+7
+7
+9
use rope 5 (17)

Hog-tie

15th
Witchborn Binder 4
+12/+7/+2
+7
+7
+10
clarity of vision, spot 2 (16), use rope 1 (18)
Scorpion’s grasp
Mage shackles

16th
Witchborn Binder 5
+12/+7/+2
+7
+7
+10
spot the weak point, spot 2 (18), use rope 1 (19)

17th
Witchborn Binder 6
+13/+8/+3
+8
+8
+11
listen 2 (6), spot 2 (20), use rope 1 (20)

Word of abrogation, essentia +1

18th
Witchborn Binder 7
+14/+9/+4
+8
+8
+11
listen 3 (9), spot 1 (21) 4, use rope 1 (21)
Open Greater Chakra (throat)

19th
Witchborn Binder 8
+15/+10/+5
+8
+8
+12
listen 3 (12), spot 1 (22), use rope 1 (22)

Spiritflay

20th
Witchborn Binder 9
+15/+10/+5
+9
+9
+12
listen 3 (15), spot 1 (23), use rope 1 (23)

You’re a straight totemist for right now. Enjoy your big, fat, juicy str and con and rip peoples’ faces off. Your con is high enough to make your save DCs pretty respectable, so things that aren’t ordinarily viable, like basilisk mask’s totem effect to petrify, or lammasu mantle’s totem effect for fire breath. DC 15+essentia isn’t too shabby at this level and the save will scale pretty well as you level up.

Track, one of the feats needed for the SI, can be supplemented by the use of the hunter’s circlet, which gives scent. Tracking your quarry is a bit easier, and you get scent to help pinpoint enemies.

Your dragonborn mind aspect starts pulling its weight immediately, giving darkvision 30 so you don’t need the basilisk mask on all the time, same with its 30 ft llv, which saves a bind later on on the great raptor mask.

Mind is here since totemist already gives a handful of breath weapons of different energy types via several different melds such as the behir gorget, ankheg breastplate, and dragonfire mask, and grants flight through the pegasus cloak once you get access to the shoulder chakra later on (the same level your wings give you full-fledged flight) or the dragon mantle which lets you fly as early as level 2.

The dragonborn template gives you access to all the cool draconic melds from dragon magic that I’ve been mentioning.

Skilled city-dweller lets you swap out ride (since you aren’t focused on mounted combat) for tumble, which anyone can use, especially you since later on many of your witchborn binder abilities provoke AoOs.

Congratulations, you’ve entered the SI and made a pit stop in justiciar along the way.

Since witchborn binder is focused on taking his quarries in one piece with its abilities focused on capturing, rather than killing people, he needs a little help being able to deal nonlethal damage without a penalty, something the secret ingredient itself does not give you.

Justciar’s flavorfully named “bring ‘em back alive” class feature, lets you do just that with any melee weapon, so you can bring totemist’s many claws to bear, such as those derived from the girallon arms or the landshark boots, likely one of your standby totem binds at this level. This way, you’ll be able to put them down without killing them.

Detect magic will let you sniff out the most likely targets for your dispelling orb.

Your dispelling orb can be spammed to knock out enemy buffs to soften them up for the combat to come and make them a little easier to deal with.

Justiciar’s nonlethal strike also helps you rack up more (nonlethal) precision damage on top of all your natural attacks from totemist. Girallon arms is probably what you’ll be using the most often.

Among the goodies witchborn binder gives you is use rope, which is a frustratingly difficult skill to get access to. Once you get some breathing room, you’re able to max out ranks and get your mod crazy high.

Opening the shoulder chakra lets you bind the pegasus cloak, providing more agile flight than the dragon mantle.

It gives you a variety of new abilities to lay groundwork for witchborn binder. Justiciar gives improved grapple and this, in tandem with mauling gauntlets’ hand bind (which also gives improved unarmed strike) qualifies you for scorpion’s grasp.

When you hit with an unarmed strike (like via mauling gauntlets) or a light weapon (like all your natural attacks) then you deal normal damage and get to start a grapple as a free action without making a touch attack.

If using a natural weapon, you can make an attack against your target without the -4 penalty to attacks.

It even gives you the highly enviable monster ability to take a -20 to your grapple check vs an enemy 1 or more sizes smaller than you to not be considered grappled, letting you do cool stuff like threaten, not lose dex to AC, and attack other opponents, even move if you can carry your opponent which, given your str and the fact you’ll be picking on small creatures, shouldn’t be too hard to drag.

How viable is taking -20 to grapple though?

surprisingly, it’s a pretty good idea:

your essentia cap at lvl 15 is 3, 4 for melds on your totem chakra.

assuming 4 in girallon arms and 2 on mauling gauntlets, you’ll have 10 from girallon arms and 6 from mauling gauntlets for a total of 16.

add on your BA (12 at this stage) for 28

your naked str mod is a +5 (plus whatever you’ll be able to afford from an item. you don’t use your waist chakra for binds in this build, so feel free to nab a belt of +str) but I won’t take it into account here. that’s +33

and then a +4 from justiciar’s improved grapple:

total: +37 to grapple.

against small enemies, they’ll take a -4, so that’s an effective mod of 41 against them. even taking the -20 penalty, they need to beat a 21 which for caster types may be just short of mathematically impossible.

feel free to use this tactic when the numbers are in your favor. in other circumstances, grapple the old fashioned way and tear enemies to bits with your numerous natural attacks.

One other way justiciar bolsters witchborn binder’s abilities is its oddball exotic weapon proficiency (manacles) bonus feat.

Mage shackles are extremely versatile since unlike normal manacles, they can neither be damaged nor broken. To get rid of them, a target needs to unshape them as a soulmeld, or make a DC 35 escape artist check. No one puts that many ranks in escape artist.

That alone is pretty cool, but where it really comes into its own is in tandem with justiciar’s hog-tie ability.

When you pin an enemy in a grapple (trivial with your juicy mod) you can immedately hog-tie them if you have your manacles in hand (no problem with mage shackles since they’re never far away. you should always be holding a pair since they last 24 hours. and with girallon arms, you can maul enemies with your monster arms and use one human one to hold the mage shackles (and bonk with them)

When you hog-tie, make a use rope check vs their grapple or escape artist to hog-tie. If they beat it, then you keep on grappling (and you’ll probably win) if they lose, they’re bound and helpless, so you can kick them in the head and turn them in for the bounty. The strength check given for justiciar is moot for mage shackles since they can’t be broken or even damaged!

Justiciar also gives the highly useful crippling strike, which activates every time you deal precision damage, dishing out 1 str damage per hit, making it even harder for enemies to beat your grapple.

You’re at the finish line now. word of abrogation’s up, as is spiritflay. Your throat chakra’s open, allowing you some more options for breath weapon as mentioned earlier in addition to other status effects such as the fatigue effect from the brass mane.

Word of abrogation can help lock down enemy spell casters. Make sure you sweep a potential danger zone with your detect magic ability to know likely targets.

Spiritflay lets you bring your huge con score to bear (now a naked 25 before items) to juice the save, making it count more.

As far as positives go, you nab another meld and bind, offering some more flexibility, so keep doing what you’re doing and enjoy it, your numbers only improve.

magic of incarnum: totemist, shape soulmeld, open lesser chakra, open greater chakra,
complete warrior: justiciar
SRD: alertness, skill focus, track, water orc
races of the dragon: dragonborn
sandstorm: scorpion’s grasp
cityscape web enhancement: skilled city dweller
dragon magic: draconic melds

Heliomance

2014-11-23, 04:40 AM

I am the soul of my sword
Steel is my body and incarnum is my blood

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1eUOe52f-iw/UQGHeXioDfI/AAAAAAAAAJk/5j3DKMjIhdA/s320/eso+bosmer+female.png
Alana Kurudagnir
Wild Elf, CG, Ranger 2/ Elf Soulborn 3/ Incarnum Blade 5/ Witchborn Binder 10

Ballad of the Binder
To the hamlet of Wolfhaven rode a stranger one fine day
Hardly spoke to folks around her didn't have too much to say
No one dared to ask her business no one dared to make a slip
For the stranger there among them bore mated blades upon her hip

It was early in the morning when she strode into the town
She came walking from the west side slowly lookin' all around
She's an outlaw loose and running came the whisper from each lip
And she's here to do some business with the blades upon her hip

In this town there lived a sorcerer by the name of Onyr Red
Many men had tried to take him and that many men were dead
He was vicious and a killer though a youth of twenty four
And the notches on his staff they numbered one an nineteen more

Now the stranger started talking made it plain to folks around
Was a hunter and a Binder wouldn't be too long in town
She came here to take a sorcerer back alive or maybe dead
And she said it didn't matter she was after Onyr Red

Wasn't long before the story was relayed to Onyr Red
But the sorcerer didn't worry men that tried before were dead
Twenty men had tried to take him twenty men had made a slip
Twenty one would be the Binder with the blades upon her hip

The morning passed so quickly it was time for them to meet
It was twenty past eleven when they walked out in the street
Folks were watching from the windows every-body held their breath
They knew this handsome Binder was about to meet her death

There was twenty feet between them when they stopped to make their play
And the swiftness of the Binder is still talked about today
Onyr Red had not yet gestured fore those blades had fairly ripped
And the ranger's aim was deadly with the blades upon her hip

It was over in a moment and the folks had gathered round
There before them lay the body of the sorcerer on the ground
Oh he might have went on living but he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Binder with the blades upon her hip

Abilities:

Strength Dexterity Constitution Intelligence Wisdom Charisma Reason
8 17 14 14 14 10 32-point buy
8 18 14 14 14 10 4th
8 19 14 14 14 10 8th
8 20 14 14 14 10 12th
8 20 15 14 14 10 16th
8 20 16 14 14 10 20th

Build:

Level Class BAB Fort Ref Will Skills Feats Features
1 Arcane Hunter (Ranger) +1 2 2 0 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 1, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 2, Knowledge (religion) 2, Listen (Wis) 4, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 4, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 4, Use Rope (Dex) 4 Weapon Finesse, Track Favored Enemy (arcanists), Track, wild empathy
2 Elf Soulborn +2 4 2 0 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 2, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 2, Knowledge (religion) 2.5, Listen (Wis) 4, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 4, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 5, Use Rope (Dex) 4 - Aura, Smite Opposition 1/day
3 Arcane Hunter (Ranger) +3 5 3 0 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 2, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 2, Knowledge (religion) 3, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 6, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 6, Use Rope (Dex) 6 Alertness Fighting Style (TWF)
4 Elf Soulborn +4 6 3 0 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 3, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 2, Knowledge (religion) 3.5, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 6, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 7, Use Rope (Dex) 6 - Incarnum Defense
5 Elf Soulborn +5 6 4 1 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 4, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 2, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 6, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 8, Use Rope (Dex) 6 Azure Enmity -
6 Incarnum Blade +6/+1 7 4 1 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 6, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 2, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 6, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 9, Use Rope (Dex) 6 Improved TWF Shape blademeld,
7 Incarnum Blade +7/+2 9 4 1 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 8, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 2, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 6, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 10, Use Rope (Dex) 6 - Blademeld chakra binds
8 Incarnum Blade +8/+3 10 4 1 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 10, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 2, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 6, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 11, Use Rope (Dex) 6 - Rebind blademeld,
9 Incarnum Blade +9/+4 10 5 2 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 12, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 2, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 6, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 12, Use Rope (Dex) 6 Bonus Essentia Blademeld chakra bind
10 Incarnum Blade +10/+5 11 5 2 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 13, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 2.5, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 6, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 13, Use Rope (Dex) 6 - Dual chakra binding,
11 Witchborn Binder +10/+5 11 5 2 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 14, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 3, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 6, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 14, Use Rope (Dex) 9 - Detect magic, meldshield, +1 level of existing meldshaping class, royal purse 1/level
12 Witchborn Binder +11/+6/+1 11 5 4 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 15, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 3, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 6, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 15, Use Rope (Dex) 13 Martial Study (Shadow Garrote) Dispelling orb, essentia +1
13 Witchborn Binder +12/+7/+2 11 5 5 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 16, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 3, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 7, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 16, Use Rope (Dex) 16 - +1 level of existing meldshaping class
14 Witchborn Binder +13/+8/+3 12 6 5 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 17, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 3, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 10, Sense Motive (Wis) 2, Survival (Wis) 17, Use Rope (Dex) 17 - Mage shackles
15 Witchborn Binder +13/+8/+3 12 6 6 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 18, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 3, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 10, Sense Motive (Wis) 5, Survival (Wis) 18, Use Rope (Dex) 18 Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance) +1 level of existing meldshaping class
16 Witchborn Binder +14/+9/+4 12 6 6 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 19, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 3, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 10, Sense Motive (Wis) 8, Survival (Wis) 19, Use Rope (Dex) 19 - Word of abrogation, essentia +1
17 Witchborn Binder +15/+10/+5 13 7 7 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 20, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 3, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 10, Sense Motive (Wis) 11, Survival (Wis) 20, Use Rope (Dex) 20 - +1 level of existing meldshaping class
18 Witchborn Binder +16/+11/+6/+1 13 7 7 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 21, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 3, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 10, Sense Motive (Wis) 14, Survival (Wis) 21, Use Rope (Dex) 21 Shadow Blade Spiritflay
19 Witchborn Binder +16/+11/+6/+1 13 7 8 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 22, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 3, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 10, Sense Motive (Wis) 17, Survival (Wis) 22, Use Rope (Dex) 22 - +1 level of existing meldshaping class
20 Witchborn Binder +17/+12/+7/+2 14 8 8 Concentration (Con) 2, Knowledge (arcana) (Int) 23, Knowledge (nature) (Int) 3, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen (Wis) 6, Search (Int) 2, Spot (Wis) 10, Sense Motive (Wis) 20, Survival (Wis) 23, Use Rope (Dex) 23 - Grim integument, royal purse 1/year, +1 level of existing meldshaping class

Incarnum:

Level
Soulmelds
Essentia
Chakra Binds

1st
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-

5th
-
1
-

6th
-
1
-

7th
-
1
-

8th
-
1
-

9th
-
3
-

10th
-
3
-

11th
1
3
-

12th
1
4
-

13th
1
4
-

14th
1
4
-

15th
1
5
-

16th
1
6
-

17th
1
6
-

18th
1
6
-

19th
2
7
1

20th
2
7
1

Soulmelds: Bluesteel Bracers, Lucky Dice

Strategy:
Our general strategy is focused on trying to disable our opponents as fast as possible. Our high dex couple with the Bluesteel Bracers Incarnum provides a large advantage towards getting the first action. The next step is to prevent our foes from casting spells. To this end we have close to a full BAB, and Weapon Finesse, which allows us to use our high dex to attack with instead of our poor strength. Additionally Lucky Dice gives us a chance to bolster our attack roll a bit. With a touch attack with a +22 or +23 modifier we should have little difficulty affixing our Mage's Shackles to stop them from casting or zipping off somewhere. Our next major challenge is overcoming our targets spell resistance and keeping them from casting. Fortunately relatively few things have natural spell resistance. For those that do a +16 CL (Soulborn 3/2 + Incanum Blade 5 + Witchborn Binder 10) should give us enough of an edge to ensnare them. In the event that have used the abjuration to give themselves spell resistance, a fully invested Dispelling Orb should take down their buffs and leave them completely open. As for stopping their spells, a +29 DC caster check (10 +16 CL + 3 Con) should provide sufficient challenge to anyone but pure casters.

Once we have them disabled, our last step is to take them down as quickly as possible. With our feat progression we are able to make 6 attacks in a turn, and thanks to Shadow Blade apply our Dex to damage instead of our strength. We also get a +2 damage for arcanists being our favored enemy, and a small boost to damage from our blademeld when we bind to our hand chakras, as well as another small boost from Lucky Dice and any essentia we have invested into Azure Enmity. All together we should be capable of dealing at least 48 points of damage every round just from our bonuses. Given that the average wizard shouldn't have more than 100 HP we should be able to bring them down within 3-4 turns before they can do any serious damage to us or our party.

A typical setup for the days adventuring would most likely begin by investing one or two points into Azure Enmity. This provides us with a nice boost to our abilities against our favored enemy, and leaves us with some essentia for our other abilities. We'll probably have our two main weapons melded to our Soul, Heart, Feet, or Hand chakras since they provide the most useful benefits.

Sources:
"Big Iron" by Marty Robbins
Arcane Hunter: CM p. 32
Martial Study: ToB p. 31
Martial Stance: ToB p. 31
Shadow Blade: ToB p. 32
Incarnum Blade: MoI p.121

Heliomance

2014-11-23, 04:43 AM

Hellfire
Dark fire
Now wizard, it's your turn
I bring you
Your pyre
For your crimes you will burn!

Vedo D'Nigh
Neutral Evil
(Vaulkrau) Illuman
Cloistered Cleric 1/Incarnate 6/Witchborn Binder 10/Incarnate +3

Vedo D'Nigh never knew his mother. She died in childbirth, leaving him to the care of those in the monestary where he was born -- the Hearth of the Burning Spellbooks. The "Burners" were an organization where members were bonded in one passion: the eradication of Arcane workings. They formed their union together on the pact that they would each do their part in seeking out that Abomination and bringing about its end. Some sought to convince users of the Arcane to turn away from their wicked ways; others simply slaughtered and slew such offenders.

Vedo spent most of his childhood days within the walls of the Hearth cataloguing the files of the monestary. He studied the writings there, learning of the ways of the divine and the creations of the 'real' gods. He discovered the natural order of life and death and found fit to use such things in the fight against that wicked Abomination. Most notably, he found the power of his own soul and worshipped the vigor of his convictions to stand tall against the Arcane, even beyond his last breath.

One day, early in his adulthood, Vedo was diligently studying the tomes and scrolls in a vault deep beneath the monestary. The Hearth above him was attacked by wizards and sorcerers angered by the Burners' aims. The Hearth, a fortress in its own right, was demolished, layed waste to nothing more than a strewn pile of rubble.

Vedo was lucky that day to have escaped with his life. He was one of the few who did. He managed to slip through the commotion and chaos, clutching to him a tome of the Way of the Sacred Burners. Thus did he carry into the world that divine mission: to oppose the Abomination wherever it may be!

Str 08
Con 16
Dex 10
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 16

Level increases to CON.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features
Soulmelds
Essentia
Chakra Binds

1st
Cloistered Cleric 1
+0
+2
+0
+2
Appraise 2 (2) Decipher Script 4 (4) K:Arcana 4 (4) K:Religion 4 (4) Listen 2 (2) Search 2 (2) Sense Motive 2 (2) Spellcraft 4 (4) Spot 2 (2) Survival 2 (2) Use Magic Device 2 (2) Use Rope 2 (2)
1st: Able Learner; B: Extra Turning
Rebuke Undead; Inquisition Domain; Undeath Domain; Knowledge Domain; Lore
--
--
--

2nd
Incarnate 1
+0
+4
+0
+4
Appraise (2) Decipher Script 1 (5) K:Arcana 1 (5) K:Religion 1 (5) Listen (2) Search (2) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (5) Spot (2) Survival (2) Use Magic Device (2) Use Rope (2)
--
Aura; Detect Good
2
1
0

3rd
Incarnate 2
+1
+5
+0
+5
Appraise 1 (3) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion 1 (6) Listen (2) Search 1 (3) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (6) Spot (2) Survival (2) Use Magic Device (2) Use Rope (2)
3rd: Alertness
Chakra Bind (crown)
3
2+1
1

4th
Incarnate 3
+1
+5
+1
+5
Appraise (3) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion 1 (7) Listen (2) Search (3) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (7) Spot 1 (3) Survival (2) Use Magic Device 1 (3) Use Rope (2)
--
Expanded Soulmeld Capacity +1; Incarnum Radiance 1/day
3
3+1
1

5th
Incarnate 4
+2
+6
+1
+6
Appraise (3) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion 1 (8) Listen (2) Search 1 (4) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (8) Spot 1 (4) Survival (2) Use Magic Device (3) Use Rope (2)
--
Chakra Binds (Feet, Hands)
4
4+1
1

6th
Incarnate 5
+2
+6
+1
+6
Appraise 1 (4) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion 1 (9) Listen (2) Search (4) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (9) Spot (4) Survival (2) Use Magic Device 1 (4) Use Rope (2)
6th: Track
Rapid Meldshaping 1/day
4
5+1
1

7th
Incarnate 6
+3
+7
+2
+7
Appraise 1 (5) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion 1 (10) Listen (2) Search (4) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (10) Spot (4) Survival (2) Use Magic Device 1 (5) Use Rope (2)
--
--
4
6+1
2

8th
Witchborn Binder 1
+3
+7
+2
+9
Appraise (5) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion 1 (11) Listen (2) Search (4) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (11) Spot (4) Survival 4 (6) Use Magic Device (5) Use Rope (2)
--
Detect Magic; Meldshield; Royal Purse 1/level
5
7+1
2

9th
Witchborn Binder 2
+4
+7
+2
+10
Appraise (5) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion 1 (12) Listen (2) Search (4) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (12) Spot (4) Survival 1 (7) Use Magic Device 1 (6) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
9th: Soultouched Spellcasting
Dispelling Orb
5
7+1+1
2

10th
Witchborn Binder 3
+5
+8
+3
+10
Appraise (5) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion (12) Listen (2) Search (4) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (13) Spot (4) Survival 5 (12) Use Magic Device (6) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
--
--
5
8+1+1
2

11th
Witchborn Binder 4
+6/1
+8
+3
+11
Appraise (5) Concentration 1 (1) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion (12) Listen (2) Search 1 (5) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (14) Spot (4) Survival 2 (14) Use Magic Device 1 (7) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
--
Mage Shackles
5
8+1+1
2

12th
Witchborn Binder 5
+6/1
+8
+3
+11
Appraise (5) Concentration 4 (5) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion (12) Listen (2) Search (5) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (15) Spot (4) Survival 1 (15) Use Magic Device (7) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
12th: Divine Defiance
--
5
9+1+1
2

13th
Witchborn Binder 6
+7/2
+9
+4
+12
Appraise (5) Concentration 2 (7) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion (12) Listen (2) Search (5) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (16) Spot 1 (5) Survival 1 (16) Use Magic Device 1 (8) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
--
Word of Abrogation
5
9+1+2
2

14th
Witchborn Binder 7
+8/3
+9
+4
+12
Appraise (5) Concentration 4 (11) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion (12) Listen (2) Search (5) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (17) Spot (5) Survival 1 (17) Use Magic Device (8) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
--
--
6
10+1+2
3

15th
Witchborn Binder 8
+9/4
+9
+4
+13
Appraise (5) Concentration 2 (13) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion (12) Listen (2) Search (5) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (18) Spot 1 (6) Survival 1 (18) Use Magic Device 1 (9) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
15th: Arcane Mastery
Spiritflay
6
10+1+2
3

16th
Witchborn Binder 9
+9/4
+10
+5
+13
Appraise (5) Concentration 4 (17) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion (12) Listen (2) Search (5) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (19) Spot (6) Survival 1 (19) Use Magic Device (9) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
--
--
6
11+1+2
3

17th
Witchborn Binder 10
+10/5
+10
+5
+14
Appraise (5) Concentration 2 (19) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion (12) Listen (2) Search (5) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (20) Spot 1 (7) Survival 1 (20) Use Magic Device 1 (10) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
--
Grim Integument; Royal Purse 1/year
6
12+1+2
3

18th
Incarnate 7
+10/5
+10
+5
+14
Appraise (5) Concentration 2 (21) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion (12) Listen (2) Search (5) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (21) Spot (7) Survival 1 (21) Use Magic Device (10) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
18th: Open Greater Chakra (Waist)
Share Incarnum Radiance
7
13+1+2
3

19th
Incarnate 8
+11/6/1
+11
+5
+15
Appraise (5) Concentration 1 (22) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion (12) Listen (2) Search (5) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (22) Spot (7) Survival 1 (22) Use Magic Device 1 (11) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
--
Incarnum Radiance 2/day
7
14+1+2
4

20th
Incarnate 9
+11/6/1
+11
+6
+15
Appraise (5) Concentration 1 (23) Decipher Script (5) K:Arcana (5) K:Religion (12) Listen (2) Search (5) Sense Motive (2) Spellcraft 1 (23) Spot 1 (8) Survival 1 (23) Use Magic Device (11) Use Rope (2) Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
--
Chakra Binds (Arms, Brow, Shoulders)
7
16+1+2
4

Vedo has spells of a 1st level cleric. Other than having the spell list available for wands, this isin't a major aspect of the build. Toss around a Cure Light Wounds early on, but otherwise don't rely on the magic.

It's at 13th level that this build hits its stride. The big deal here is Word of Abrogation.
12 essentia
Divine Defiance feat (10 turn attempts/day)
Soultouched Spellcasting feat (insight bonus)
+2 Krau sigil
ML 9 + 2 (krau) + 3 insight (SS feat) + 3 (WoA) = 17

Use an immediate action (via Divine Defiance) to counterspell (using Word of Abrogation) an enemy's spell as it's being cast. With a 17 "caster level", you'll need to roll a 7 or higher (on a d20) to counter a spell of the same caster level as your character level. (You'll need that same 7 when you're level 14. At level 15, you'll need an 8, but you gain the Arcane Mastery feat, allowing you to take 10 on the check. By 18th, you can invest even more essentia into both WoA and Soultouched Spellcasting.)

And you're still free to use a move and a standard action on your turn. (Or a full-round action, if you'd prefer.) Toss off a Dispelling Orb (which also gains the benefits of Soultouched Spellcasting), slap some Mage Shackles onto a foe, or (later on) hit someone with Spiritflay or Grim Integument.

Royal Purse is going to come into play for you, because you're going to need to make up a shopping list.
By going on a shopping spree, you can procure a Phylactery of Undead Turning (SRD), a Talisman of Undead Mastery (MIC) (which can, in fact, be used in the same round), a Scepter of the Netherworld (LM), and/or a Sacred Shield (or armor) (BoED). Add in a Rod of Defiance (LM) and a Lyre of the Restless Soul (LM). The result of it all (if/once you manage it all) is a Rebuke Undead level of 14 and the undead being rebuked at -8TR. Which lets you rebuke two undead of 15 HD each.
A scroll of Create Undead (usable, actually, if made by a Favored Soul) will get you the kind of meat-shield you prefer. (Mage Spectacles offers the bonus to Use Magic Device that will let you use a scroll of Create Greater Undead.)
Animate Dead is a wand-able spell that's on your cleric spell list.
Command Undead is a wand-able spell that is not on your spell list. (But that's what Use Magic Device is for!)
With some/all of that available, and Necrocarnum Crown bound to your crown chakra, you'll have plenty of meat-shields to keep your enemies off of you while you dispel everything in sight.

A 1st level Witchborn Binder also gains Detect Magic at will. Which is nice for all sorts of obvious reasons. This character also gains the Magical Appraisal skill trick, offering a once/day use that can save on the funds (which can then be used for the shopping list above) and/or can be useful (above and beyond Detect Magic and Spellcraft) when examining a shopkeeper's wares.

Races of Destiny -- Illuman race; Able Learner feat
Spell Compendium -- Inquisition Domain; Undeath Domain
Magic of Incarnum -- Incarnate class; Soultouched Spellcasting feat; Open Greater Chakra feat
Complete Scoundrel -- Skill Trick: Magical Appraisal
Fiendish Codex II -- Divine Defiance feat
Complete Arcane -- Arcane Mastery feat
For anything not otherwise noted, check the SRD.

Heliomance

2014-11-23, 04:44 AM

The Doctor is in.

“The Doctor” Belthataur
NE Illumian Druid1/ Totemist 6/ Witchborn Binder 2/ Fleshwarper 3/ Witchborn binder 8

stats

32 point buy: STR: 13, CON 17, DEX 10, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 10
Level 4: +1 Con
Level 8: +1 Con
Level 12: +1 Con
Level 16: +1 Str
Level 20: +1 Con

Obligatory theoretical internet picture
Just add a tentacle, a third eye, and scary flipping familiar, and malevolent gangster type attitude. Eventually, Belthataur will have the nickname, "The Doctor" for his grafting and extreme torturous methods. He will be a very effective if not noble or honorable witchborn binder. The WB's scary field agent.

http://otakuhousednd.pbworks.com/f/1246417450/illumian.jpg

Backstory

Belthataur grew up in a large city. He expressed a lot of callous and selfish behaviors as a young teen and found himself exiled from schooling. He didn’t find that he really liked people and city life all that much anyway, so when his parents sent him away to live with an old family friend who worked as a trapper in the nearby forest, he jumped at the opportunity. Exiled to the woods, Belthataur really grew and matured under the tutelage of his adopted uncle. He found that he loved discovering how life worked, sometimes lingering over the butchering of hunted animals and became fascinated in the mechanical yet somehow magical nature of life. He became an efficient hunter and animal handler, and became a relatively well adjusted young man. He had a series of temporary pets that he became adept at training and who seemed to really enjoy his company. He would release them and find new ones within the week.
One day, he returned home from a successful hunt to find that his adopted uncle had been killed in what looked like a violent magical battle. He tracked the culprit down, and discovered a half elf sorcerer camping talking to his companions about how unprepared his victim was to his magic. Tailing this group for about a week, Belthataur, methodical about his rage, and hungry, found an opportunity to kill the sorcerer. When he returned home with the sorcerer’s staff, he told the story to his parents who pointed out that there was a bounty for this particular bandit by the witch born binder cabal in town. This was a vital connection for Belthataur and became his introduction into some rudimentary incarnum training, which he found to be very intuitive from his amateurish studies of life.
Belthataur isn’t particularly in hate with magic. His long term plan is to join the witch binders to discover more about the nature of life. He plans on tracking down, defeating, and blackmailing sorcerers lower on the bounty list for “protection money.” Occasionally tracking down and punishing those mages who try to skip out on their protection moneys.
The Crunch

You must stick to the skills progression here in order to get everything you need for the first 10 levels. After that, do as you wish.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Druid
+0
+2
+0
+2
Heal 4, use rope 2, sense motive 2, survival 2, knowledge religion 2, search 1
Alertness (bonus), Track
Illumian Hoon (racial), Urban Companion ACF (cityscape web), Voice of the City ACF (cityscape web), Spells, Spontaneous Affliction ACF (exemplars of evil

2nd
Totemist
+0
+4
+2
+2
heal 5, search 2, arcana 1

Wild Empathy

3rd
Totemist
+1
+5
+5
+2
heal 6, religion 3, arcana 2
Share Soulmeld (MoI)
Totem Chakra bind (Capacity +1), Illumian Sigil uur (racial), Illumian Power word uurhoon (racial)(Races of Destiny)

4th
Totemist
+2
+5
+5
+3
heal 7, arcana 5

Totem’s Protection

5th
Totemist
+3
+6
+6
+3
search 3, religion 4, arcana 6

6th
Totemist
+3
+6
+6
+3
heal 9, arcana 7
Enhanced power sigils (+3 on Con checks? heck yeah!) (Races of Destiny)OR improved unarmed strike(PHB)
chakra binds (crown feet hands)

7th
Totemist
+4
+7
+7
+4
Search 4, arcana 8, survival 4

totem chakra bind (+1 meldshaper level)

8th
Witchborn Binder
+4
+7
+7
+6
heal 10, spot 2, survival 5

Detect magic, meldshield, royal purse 1/level

9th
Witchborn Binder
+5
+7
+7
+7
Skills
Graft Flesh (beholder: grafts in Fiend Folio, which didn’t get an update)
Dispelling orb, essentia +1

10th
Fleshwarper(Lords of Madness)
+5
+9
+7
+7
Skills

aberrant familiar

11th
Fleshwarper
+6/+1
+10
+7
+7
Skills

Elder Secret (choose depending on campaign)

12th
Fleshwarper
+6/+1
+10
+8
+8
Skills
multiattack (MM)
Graft mastery (illithid)

13th
Witchborn Binder
+7/+2
+11
+9
+8
Skills

14th
Witchborn Binder
+8/+3
+11
+9
+9
Skills

Mage Shackles

15th
Witchborn Binder
+8/+3
+11
+9
+9
Skills
double chakra (MoI) or enhanced power sigils (if you didn’t take them at earlier levels)

16th
Witchborn Binder
+9/+4
+12
+10
+10
Skills

Word of abrogation, Essentia +1

17th
Witchborn Binder
+10/+5
+12
+10
+10
Skills

18th
Witchborn Binder
+11/+6/+1
+12
+10
+11
Skills
double chakra or enhanced power sigils
Spirit flay

19th
Witchborn Binder
+11/+6/+1
+13
+11
+11
Skills

20th
Witchborn Binder
+12/+7/+2
+13
+11
+12
Skills

Grim integument, royal purse 1/year

Level
Soulmelds
Essentia
chakra
Graft Reserve
0 Level Druid spells
1st Level Druid spells
2nd Level Druid Spells

1
0
0
0
0
3
1+bonus
-

2
2
1
0
0
3
1
-

3
3
2
1
0
3
1
-

4
3
2
1
0
3
1
-

5
4
3
1
0
3
1
-

6
4
3
1
0
3
1
-

7
4
4
2
0
3
1
-

8
5
5
2
0
3
1
-

9
5
6
2
0
3
1
-

10
5
6
2
500
3
1
-

11
5
6
2
700
4
2
-

12
5
6
2
900
4
2
1+bonus

13
5
6
2
0
4
2
1

14
5
6
2
0
4
2
1

15
5
7
2
0
4
2
1

16
5
8
2
0
4
2
1

17
6
9
3
0
4
2
1

18
6
9
3
0
4
2
1

19
6
10
3
0
4
2
1

20
6
11
3
0
4
2
1

Level Write Ups

Level 1: Belthataur is at this point an illumian druid with some urban training. He can understand a few languages due to the voice of the city ACF. He has an urban companion that is treated like a familiar, representing his attraction to training and using small animals that he can modify the behaviors of. This feature, as written, will open up the fleshwarper class. His familiar also grants alertness, opening up witch born binder class. I also gave him the trading away of spontaneous summon spells to sicken humanoids within a 30’ radius Fort save (DC 10 +1/2 class level +CHA modifier) for a number of rounds equal to the spell sacrificed. (exemplars of evil ACF). His illumine sigil is Hoon (+1 on wisdom and constitution checks, increases to +2 at level 3). He is currently studying and training his incarnum abilities to join the witchbinders.

Level 5: At level 5, Belthataur is a typical totemist with a handful of druid spells. At 3rd level he received access to the uur sigil (+2 dexterity checks) and the power word “uurhoon” (2/day swift action to gain an insight bonus equal to her Wisdom bonus on Reflex saves and her Dexterity bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance lasting for 1 minute per level of the spell slot expended.) He can share soul melds with his strange companion, which has 75% of his huge hp (consitution score yo!) He doesn’t play uniquely yet. He does get that +2 to constitution for meld shaping however, which is a nice little boost.

Level 10: Now Belthataur is starting to get some steam. He has joined the witch born binders. Depending on the campaign he either has improved unarmed strike (if the campaign is combat heavy and doesn’t allow hirelings) or enhanced power sigils. Hopefully he has access to an increaser of dexterity so that he can blast through spell resistance using his powerword racial ability, although it will only apply to any spell like abilities he has. He uses his purse for grafts. And hopefully he has installed an anti magic eye into his and his allies heads using the beholder grafts. He uses the purse for legitimate causes but collects those bounties for as cheap as possible, pocketing the extra money for graft money. He has taken to experimenting on wizards and sorcerers.

Level 12 (sweet spot): Belthatuar now has a flying badger, or a large hawk familiar that can share his girallion arms. He has illithid grafts, and probably has turned a wizard or two into a beast of burden. The illithid grafts not relisted in lords of madness are the ones that you want. If they are not available, instead try to get the Maug or silthilar grafts. He doesn’t like to take big bounties and typically bullies low level sorcerers for “protection money” as well as information about the big bounties, which he share with other binders for a price. He doesn’t hate evil magic users at this point, but sees them as a viable work option that requires little bouts of hard work that help his doctoring skills, which in turn make him and his graft ridden allies more effective at subjugating magic users. He has access to 2nd level druid spells, which he can sacrifice to sicken those around him, increase his familiar’s skills, or to use his uurhoon sigil ability. He has an elder secret (destrachan? immune to sonic effects.) The flesh warper class kind of stinks, typically, but with the druid ACF companion that is “… identical to the sorcerer's ability to summon a familiar (PH 52), including all benefits granted and gained by the familiar, except as noted…”

Level 15: Belthataur is now a with born binder full time crooked cop. He has WBL that he channels into grafts, as well as the graft points that hopefully combined with the royal purse. He has tried selling his grafting skills for 3rd anti-magic field beholder eyes to the corporation for cost +25% profit. He either takes enhanced power sigils or double chakra depending on the campaign at this level, no worries, at 18th level he’ll take the other one.

In all, Belthataur is as good as a witch binder can be at being anti-magic, de-buffing, and support plus his grafts make good use of the royal purse which also in turn help the organization, and make him better at mageslaying. His illumine abilities help with his meldshaping. And the use of his super familiar, who, through share soul meld, can become a grappling machine/tiny flanker. Which is nice if he installs an illithid fiend folio grafts that aren’t in lords of madness.

Heliomance

2014-11-23, 04:47 AM

That's all! Judges, away!

Venger

2014-11-23, 04:48 AM

That's all! Judges, away!

wow, five dishes! this is the fewest entries we've had since cryokineticist.

Sian

2014-11-23, 05:48 AM

the idea i was playing around with was a Laika (Savage Species Web enhancement) Totemist 2 / Ardent 3 / Soul Manifester 5 / Witchborn Binder 10 with Catalouges of Enlightenment (Inqusistion), Dragontouched and Draconic Aura (Power), for boosting my Casterlevel checks on Dispelling Orb, Mage Shakles and Grim Integument, getting track as a racial bonus feat

Venger

2014-11-23, 05:55 AM

Sian

2014-11-23, 06:09 AM

Soul Manifester is the Mind's Eye variant of Soulcaster which boosts Psionic manifesting instead of Arcane Casting. No need for Magic Mantle (althrough thematicly sensible) as it overlaps quite a bit with what Witchborn Binder gets (Dispelling Orb and at will Detect magic) ... main considerations for Mantles were Freedom and Physical Power, with the jury still out on the third.

Where do you see Alertness as a bonus feat in those? ...

Amphetryon

2014-11-23, 06:14 AM

Well. . . So much for getting up this AM to finish before the scheduled reveal. :smallannoyed:

Venger

2014-11-23, 06:51 AM

Heliomance

2014-11-23, 06:52 AM

Well. . . So much for getting up this AM to finish before the scheduled reveal. :smallannoyed:

Sorry! Damn, I must have woken up earlier than normal. I didn't think to check the time on the post, I thought I'd set it to some point before I'd normally be awake on a Sunday. You only lost half an hour or so, but if you (or anyone else) wants to send in entries today, I'll post them.

For future reference: If I mess up like this again, PM me your entry and point out that I derped. Then I can post it without you breaking anonymity.

Venger

2014-11-23, 07:06 AM

it's so early in america (where I think all our current judges are) that if you delete your post and heliomance edits hers, anonymity might not be an issue.

Sian

2014-11-23, 07:07 AM

I know that. I love soul manifester. I just... misread you as saying soulcaster. I have no idea why.

Likely because i miswrote it as Soulcaster, noticing it as soon as i posted, going back and editing it :smallwink:

Venger

2014-11-23, 07:11 AM

Likely because i miswrote it as Soulcaster, noticing it as soon as i posted, going back and editing it :smallwink:

and there we are :smallwink:

Kesnit

2014-11-23, 08:08 AM

it's so early in america (where I think all our current judges are) that if you delete your post and heliomance edits hers, anonymity might not be an issue.

Too late. I saw the posts.

Venger

2014-11-23, 08:11 AM

Too late. I saw the posts.

oh well. I tried. what should we do, chair? proceed as normal?

Heliomance

2014-11-23, 10:06 AM

If I get a completed build today (from anyone) I'll post it. Otherwise, proceed as normal.

Fax Celestis

2014-11-23, 11:17 AM

Zipding

2014-11-23, 01:31 PM

I would have had an original build too! If only I could have qualified for the SI.

My idea was Duskling Totemist/Witchborn Binder/Occult Slayer.

Except Totemist didn't have the required skills, so I went into Incarnate to get Knowledge (religion), then I realized that I didn't actually qualify for the SI too late to edit the build and submit it.

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-23, 01:33 PM

only five entries. man this isn't going to feel as awesome if i finally place in this one.

Venger

2014-11-23, 01:34 PM

only five entries. man this isn't going to feel as awesome if i finally place in this one.

imagine how the chefs for tactical soldier felt: there were only four of them.

Deadasadoor

2014-11-23, 02:09 PM

Wow, I thought there would be a few more entries. The ones that are in are pretty neat though. I entered this round, but the other one I kicked around was a karsite totemist for built in spell resist and anti-magic flavor, but the +2 LA was gross. Feral was considered but I forgot that pounce is only granted based on RHD.

Venger

2014-11-23, 02:15 PM

Feral was considered but I forgot that pounce is only granted based on RHD.

What on oerth are you talking about? it's just based on HD. that counts class levels.

you were right not to go with feral though, it would've tanked your score for being old, stale cheese.

karsite's LA blows too. you were wise not to go with it.

Deadasadoor

2014-11-23, 02:37 PM

What on oerth are you talking about? it's just based on HD. that counts class levels.

you were right not to go with feral though, it would've tanked your score for being old, stale cheese.

It gains the special attacks indicated in the row corresponding to its monster Hit Dice

I'm probably wrong, but this part makes me assume it's monster hit dice, but I've never been 100% sure about it. Anyways yeah, it was gross cheese, and the WBB levels would have handicapped it more than going straight totemist, probably with major reductions in the UoSI and elegance fields.

Venger

2014-11-23, 02:47 PM

I'm probably wrong, but this part makes me assume it's monster hit dice, but I've never been 100% sure about it. Anyways yeah, it was gross cheese, and the WBB levels would have handicapped it more than going straight totemist, probably with major reductions in the UoSI and elegance fields.

You are wrong. "monster hit dice" is not a rules term, so ignore it. all characters are monsters: human, orc, or gibbering mouther. it means "HD" which is the sum of your RHD + your class levels

Zaq

2014-11-23, 02:57 PM

imagine how the chefs for tactical soldier felt: there were only four of them.

No, there were a lot of builds for Tactical Soldier. Eight, I believe. I was one of them.

There were only five builds for Acolyte of the Ego, though.

Venger

2014-11-23, 03:00 PM

No, there were a lot of builds for Tactical Soldier. Eight, I believe. I was one of them.

There were only five builds for Acolyte of the Ego, though.

there... were 8 builds in tactical soldier. why did I think there were 4?

there were indeed. I just forgot about it because I wasn't in it.

Heliomance

2014-11-23, 03:27 PM

We have another entry!

such incarnum
very antimagic
wow

Good Afternoon Chairman,

I would like to thank you for giving an unofficial extension for those who could not enter before the original deadline.

Limier du Sorcier
http://nolastudiola.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/dartking1.jpeg
I have been appointed by both the Society and by Taiia Herself to root out all unlawful use of magic.

Background
There is only one correct way of life. There is only one Goddess--Taiia both the Creator and the Destroyer. All of existence goes through both creation and destruction. Taiia is there to oversee it. She watches all. She is the Most Holy. She is the One.

There are those who would believe themselves to be better than Taiia. There are those who would believe they are Her equal. These arcane spellcasters would have the masses believe that they are also like gods. Their arrogance leads them to try to imbalance the correct way of life. This cannot be allowed.

I am Limier du Sorcier. It is my duty to protect the masses from those arcane spellcasters that would try to usurp the Theological Authority. I am part of the Society, a group of like minded individuals appointed by Taiia Herself to seek out and nullify these traitorous beings. I am also a lupin, a being that is well suited for this task for I can use my natural abilities to help with my theological duties.

Training began with learning how to track and deal with spellcasters on a very basic level. This training would continue to build upon what I learned. Soon I gained an ability to help neutralize my spellcaster marks even before they can start. I also learned how to work with soul stuff to further enhance my abilities. Of course I learned more about Taiia and through Her I became blessed to be one of her Justiciars. Then I became truly ready to defeat and take down those arcane spellcasters that would dare to put themselves above their Goddess.

I very rarely work alone. My compatriots take advantage of the openings I can provide for them when he face our foes. We continue to strive for the correct way of life. We strive to keep all of Society where it belongs--worshiping the One True Goddess.

Basics
LN male lupin Ranger 6/Bloodhound 2/Justiciar of Taiia 4/Witchborn Binder 8
32 point buy
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 10
All level increases go to Constitution

Build

Level
Class
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Ranger 1
+1
+2
+2
+0
Gather Information 2, Hide 4, Knowledge (religion) 4, Listen 2, Move Silently 4, Search 4, Spot 2, Survival 4
Education (knowledge [religion]), Track (B)
favored enemy (arcanists), lupin traits, voice of the city acf

2nd
Ranger 2
+2
+3
+3
+0
Hide +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Move Silently +1, Search +1, Survival +1, Use Rope 1
Rapid Shot (B)
combat style (archery)

3rd
Ranger 3
+3
+3
+3
+1
Gather Information +1, Hide +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Move Silently +1, Survival +1
Darkstalker, Endurance (B)

4th
Ranger 4
+4
+4
+4
+1
Hide +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Spot +1, Survival +1, Use Rope +1

distracting attack acf

5th
Ranger 5
+5
+4
+4
+1
Gather Information +1, Hide +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Move Silently +1, Survival +1

second favored enemy (humanoid [shapechanger])

6th
Ranger 6
+6
+5
+5
+2
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1, Knowledge (relgiion) +1, Listen +1, Move Silently +1, Spot +1, Survival +1, Use Rope +1
Manyshot (B), Shape Soulmeld (sighting gloves)
improved combat style

7th
Bloodhound 1
+7
+7
+7
+2
Hide +1, Listen +1, Move Silently +1, Sense Motive 2, Spot +1, Survival +1

mark (1), swift tracker

8th
Bloodhound 2
+8
+8
+8
+2
Hide +1, Listen +1, Move Silently +1, Sense Motive +2, Spot +1, Survival +1

non lethal force, ready and waiting

9th
Justiciar of Taiia 1
+8
+8
+10
+4
Hide +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Move Silently +1, Search +1, Spellcraft 1, Spot +1
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (composite greatbow) (B), Knowledge Devotion
sneak attack +1d6

10th
Justiciar of Taiia 2
+9
+8
+11
+5
Hide +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Move Silently +1, Search +1, Spellcraft +1, Spot +1

combat sense +2

11th
Justiciar of Taiia 3
+10
+9
+11
+5
Hide +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Move Silently +1, Search +1, Spellcraft +1, Spot +1

augury 1/day

12th
Justiciar of Taiia 4
+11
+9
+12
+6
Hide +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Move Silently +1, Search +1, Spellcraft +1, Spot +1
Alertness
sneak attack +2d6

13th
Witchborn Binder 1
+11
+9
+12
+8
Knowledge (arcana) 1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Sense Motive +1, Spot +1

detect magic, mindshield, royal purse

14th
Witchborn Binder 2
+12
+9
+12
+9
Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Spot +1, Survival +1

dispelling orb, +1 essentia

15th
Witchborn Binder 3
+13
+10
+13
+9
Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Sense Motive +1, Spot +1
Azure Enmity

16th
Witchborn Binder 4
+14
+10
+13
+10
Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Spot +1, Survival +1

mage shackles

17th
Witchborn Binder 5
+14
+10
+13
+10
Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Sense Motive +1, Spot +1

18th
Witchborn Binder 6
+15
+11
+14
+11
Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Spot +1, Survival +1
Indigo Strike
word of abrogation, +1 essentia

19th
Witchborn Binder 7
+16
+11
+14
+11
Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Sense Motive +1, Spot +1

20th
Witchborn Binder 8
+17
+11
+14
+12
Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1, Listen +1, Spot +1, Survival +1

spiritflay

Skill Ranks at Level 20: Gather Information 4, Hide 14, Knowledge (arcana) 8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 5, Knowledge (religion) 23, Listen 18, Move Silently 14, Search 9, Sense Motive 8, Spellcraft 4, Spot 18, Survival 15, Use Rope 3

Typical Justiciar of Taiia spells prepared
1: divine favor
2: hold person

Class Features Showcase
Building on the Prerequisites: One of the feats needed for the SI is Track, which is provided free from our Ranger levels. It also is needed for the Bloodhound prestige class. The Survival skill is also needed for both of these classes. Thanks to the Education feat, Knowledge (religion) becomes a class skill, which is necessary for both the SI and the Justiciar of Taiia as well as the Knowledge Devotion feat, both qualifying and powering.
Meldshaping: This designer will admit it—Limier does not get anything from this class feature since he has no levels of an incarnum base class. It is the designer’s belief that the SI itself does not necessarily lend itself to making an incarnum base class better and that Limier is better off with the other class features gained from his base class Ranger and his two other prestige classes Bloodhound and Justiciar of Taiia.
Detect Magic: This feature is essential for any would be mage slayer. Since it is an at will ability, there is no reason not to spam it when after your mark. Here is a point to consider. In the case of having to track the mark, Limier can use his detect magic to follow the trail. As the spell describes, there is a lingering aura after a spell is cast. It is easy to imagine using this ability to follow a spellcaster mark on the run, casting spells along the way. Detect magic can be used to find where a possible trail ends too.
Meldshield: Thankfully Limier's base saving throws are quite competitive even before he gains this class feature. Having these bonuses be insight bonuses mean that they will most likely not interfere with magic items or other temporary buffs. So if Limier really needs to make a saving throw, he can invest essentia into this ability.
Royal Purse: This class feature may not shatter the WBL but it can be useful. Limier can spend his royal purse on different kinds of arrows that he may need during the course of his career and the campaign itself. If he comes across certain types of enemies or knows that there will be many of a certain kind of enemy he can gain bane arrows, or other special types of arrows to fill his quiver. It's just one way Limier can have a quiver full of arrows like Marvel's Hawkeye or DC's Green Arrow.
Dispelling Orb: This is one of the early signature abilities of the SI and Limier can use this to his advantage. Considering that this is a ranged attack, Limier can take advantage of his preferred combat style. Further he can use his ready and waiting ability gained from his Bloodhound levels to strike before the spellcaster can take any actions.
Essentia: Any increase to the essentia pool is welcome as Limier has only incarnum feats as a source for gaining these precious points. However, he can use his points to fuel his SI class features rather than other soulmelds as other members of the SI would have to.
Mage Shackles: So if Limier and his party are able to defeat the enemies and the spellcaster needs to be brought in alive what is to stop that spellcaster from starting up again? This class feature is the answer. Even though it is a touch attack, it is a melee touch attack. Limier prefers fighting at range but if for some reason, he comes face to face with a spellcaster, he can utilize this class feature to shut him down. More often than not however, the mage shackles are for the safe transport of his quarry to face proper justice.
Word of Abrogation: So in order to use this feature, Limier needs to ready an action. Normally this can be a terrible use of an action. Thanks to our levels in Bloodhound, action economy swings in his favor. The ready and waiting feature of Bloodhound allows Limier to use his ready action against his mark even outside of the initiative sequence and can carry out this ready action at any time within the next ten minutes. The ability to strike down an enemy spellcaster even before he casts a spell and even before that spellcaster knows it is huge. A notable downside is that the Bloodhound ability only is usable against a mark, but if Limier is made aware that his target is a well known spellcaster, he can make the preparations. Another bonus to this ability is the fact that it can be used at range, which falls into Limier's preferred combat style.
Spiritflay: Speaking of combat style, this is another ability that can be used at range and a potentially powerful one at that. It also serves as a decent capstone to the build as well. Though the damage is laughable, the condition it causes is potentially devastating. Even at high levels, nauseated is still a condition that can affect the outcome of battles. And spellcasters can ill afford to lose a round of throwing up or having dry heaves and it targets their usually worst save. Limier's unmodified base difficulty for this ability is 23 and still potentially dangerous for spellcasters. A nauseated spellcaster cannot do anything and can easily be eliminated by the rest of Limier's party. From the distance that he can use this ability, the party can close in with impunity.

Design Notes and Questions Answered
How did you qualify again? You don’t have any incarnum classes. Limier qualified by use of the Shape Soulmeld feat. According to the feat, Limier gains the ability to shape any one soulmeld from any one class. His meldshaper level for this one soulmeld is one half of his character level. At character level 12, Limier has a meldshaper level of 6 and thus qualifies for the SI.
But you didn’t finish the SI! You are correct. One of the reasons that Limier cannot finish the SI is the fact that he is using a back door entry method for the SI. Since he uses the Shape Soulmeld feat, Having a meldshaper level 6 cannot be accomplished without incarnum classes before Level 12. Besides the last two levels of the SI do next to nothing for our canine friend. Since he has no meldshaper class, an increase in class features do nothing. Add to this that fact that Level 9 provides no other class features at all. Level 10 gives a lackluster increase to royal purse but 5,000 gp/year is not going to provide much. Plus certain campaigns do not progress in years so that feature is tenuous at best. The use of grim integument would hinder our hero more than help him. He needs all of the essentia he can get and investing any into this feature would be a risk that he could not afford to take.
Why a lupin and why Taiia? Lupins are a +0 LA monstrous humanoid race that does not get enough love. As a race they are great natural trackers and seemed a natural choice for an SI that is about tracking and nullifying their quarry. Yes the fluff in the Dragon Compendium speaks of a lupin pantheon but Limier comes from a setting all of his own. Taiia a goddess from Deities and Demigods that serves as an example for a game setting/world that follows a monotheistic pantheon. The prestige class dedicated to her helps Limier make up for some shortcomings for his general build, namely gaining sneak attack, some divine spellcasting ability, and insight bonuses. It even gives him a free Exotic Weapon Proficiency for which Limier chose the composite greatbow, another source of increased damage.
So what does Limier do? Limier is first and foremost a scout, tracker, and ranged combat character. Thanks to his Ranger levels and by specializing in arcanists, he becomes especially deadly against these favored enemies. Bloodhound allows him to become even more specialized in this role but gives him the all important ready and waiting class feature described above. Darkstalker is necessary for any scout/sneaky type and helps with defeating nearly all kinds of detections that spellcasters could possibly have.

Sources
Cityscape web enhancement: voice of the city Ranger alternate class feature
Complete Adventurer: Bloodhound prestige class
Complete Champion: Knowledge Devotion feat
Complete Mage: arcane hunter Ranger alternate class feature
Deities & Demigods: Justiciar of Taiia prestige class
Dragon Compendium: lupin race
Eberron Campaign Setting: Education feat
Magic of Incarnum: anything incarnum
Players' Handbook II: distracting attack Ranger alternate class feature

Darkcouch

2014-11-23, 05:11 PM

I was trying to work up a Skarn Ranger 5 / Spinemeld Warrior 7 / Witchborn Binder 8, but couldn't find much synergy between the classes.

WhamBamSam

2014-11-23, 08:10 PM

I wanted so very badly to do a incarnum dragon entry, but I realized that I'd have to be juvenile because of how their natural ML works, which would've meant I couldn't finish until epic even if I took no other classes. If MLs from multiple sources stacked, I could've done something with a wyrmling and incarnate to get the ML to enter, but they don't stack that way. Ah well.Well, young. Still, that's ECL 14. An ultracheese reading of Crown of the North Wind might do what you want.
For effects that depend on the age category of the breather, use the wearer's age category (if he or she has one) or assume an age category of young, whichever is more favorable to the wearer.If you read that as applying to "effects" (a notoriously ill-defined term in 3.5) other than those pertaining to breath weapons, then an Incarnum Wyrmling wearing a Crown of the North Wind would have an effective age category of young (3) and therefore a meldshaper level of 6. It'd be hammered in IC for questionable rules interpretations and item reliance of course, but it might actually work by RAW even if it does seem like it probably should be bs in context.

My idea was a Lesser Tiefling Swift and Deadly Hunter Urban Companion Druid 1/Tiefling Incarnate 7/Witchborn Binder 6-10/Tiefling Incarnate +2-6. The big idea was that this line...
Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster’s spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order.makes SLA caster levels default to Arcane and therefore the Tiefling's Darkness SLA has an Arcane CL, qualifying it for Obtain Familiar. So the character itself would have been focused on dispelling, counterspelling, and maybe shackling enemy casters, while his familiars used Shared Dissolving Spittle to deal damage. If Spiritflay were sharable with Share Soulmeld, I might have submitted it, but as it stood, the fact that I was really only using 6 levels of class features, the cheese required, multiclass penalties, and the fact that Mindsight was overshadowing the Detect Magic class ability, I decided to scrap it. I was surprised not to see Swift and Deadly Hunter on the build that used a Druid dip though, as it'd have saved them a feat on Track.

I'll get started on my judgings tonight or tomorrow.

daremetoidareyo

2014-11-23, 08:33 PM

My other idea was a cg dwarf dragon born totemist 6/dwarf paragon 3/witchborn binder 10. Getting like a 26 constitution...

Venger

2014-11-23, 08:34 PM

My other idea was a cg dwarf dragon born totemist 6/dwarf paragon 3/witchborn binder 10. Getting like a 26 constitution...

lolth-touched mineral warrior mongrelfolk

arkangel111

2014-11-24, 01:20 AM

So glad I didn't get my build in, mark 4456 is almost identical to mine. That would have been horrible for both of us. Looking at the others.

Venger

2014-11-24, 01:44 AM

So glad I didn't get my build in, mark 4456 is almost identical to mine. That would have been horrible for both of us. Looking at the others.

originality is always my bete noire. I still remember when kuulv and I shared all 20 of our class levels back in shadow sentinel. good times.

Amphetryon

2014-11-24, 06:21 AM

My concept - completed but for the backstory - was Duskling Totemist 6/Witchborn Binder 5/Witch Slayer 4/Witchborn Binder +5, using Displacer Mantle, Rageclaws, Landshark Boots, Frost Helm, Dread Carapace, and a Wormtail Belt, hunting casters and possessed beings of various stripes due to the monstrosity he saw himself to be.

OMG PONIES

2014-11-24, 10:03 PM

Venger

2014-11-24, 10:08 PM

I was toying around with an Incarnum Dragon as well, but figured we'd see a few of them and Vizzini'd myself right out of it. Another thing I expected to see a ton of were non-meldshaper monstrous entries based on the following:

I'm not surprised we didn't. Personally, I'm rather glad to have a round without the mandatory monster entry.

Troacctid

2014-11-24, 10:40 PM

I was toying around with an Incarnum Dragon as well, but figured we'd see a few of them and Vizzini'd myself right out of it. Another thing I expected to see a ton of were non-meldshaper monstrous entries based on the following:

A creature with no classes has a meldshaper level equal to its Hit Dice unless otherwise specified.

There are only two playable incarnum races with racial hit dice: incarnum dragons and totem giants. The one is "otherwise specified" and the other is ECL 17.

Venger

2014-11-24, 10:41 PM

There are only two playable incarnum races with racial hit dice: incarnum dragons and totem giants. The one is "otherwise specified" and the other is ECL 17.

page 54 does not specify that this rule only applies to creatures with the incarnum subtype. it was likely the intent, but that's not what it actually says.

Troacctid

2014-11-24, 11:36 PM

No, but it does say "for the purpose of shaping of a particular soulmeld", which is not applicable to creatures without meldshaping.

OMG PONIES

2014-11-25, 06:53 AM

No, but it does say "for the purpose of shaping of a particular soulmeld", which is not applicable to creatures without meldshaping.

What, then, of a 2nd-level soulborn? Do they have a meldshaper level of 1 (as pg 54 of MoI would seem to indicate) or do they have no meldshaper level since they learn how to shape their first soulmeld at 4th level?

Venger

2014-11-25, 07:03 AM

What, then, of a 2nd-level soulborn? Do they have a meldshaper level of 1 (as pg 54 of MoI would seem to indicate) or do they have no meldshaper level since they learn how to shape their first soulmeld at 4th level?

uh, no?

A creature with no classes has a meldshaper level equal to its Hit Dice unless otherwise specified.

Soulborn may suck, but it is a class.

dysprosium

2014-11-25, 10:39 AM

For the ease of judging the quick links for the entries:

Lockdown Unit 4456 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18441655&postcount=139) LN warforged Incarnate 6/Witchborn Binder 10/Ranger 4
Skinner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18441663&postcount=140) LN dragonborn water orc Totemist 6/Witchborn Binder 9/Justiciar 5
Alana Kurudagnir (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18441667&postcount=141) CG female wild elf Ranger 2/Soulborn 3/Incarnum Blade 5/Witchborn Binder 10
Vedo D'Nigh (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18441673&postcount=142) NE illumian Cloistered Cleric 1/Incarnate 9/Witchborn Binder 10
The Doctor Belthataur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18441676&postcount=143) NE illumian Druid 1/Totemist 6/Witchborn Binder 10/Fleshwarper 3
Limier du Sorcier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18443139&postcount=168) LN male lupin Ranger 6/Bloodhound 2/Justiciar of Taiia 4/Witchborn Binder 8

I'm surprised no one else put this together before me. :smallamused:

Heliomance

2014-11-25, 11:31 AM

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-25, 09:59 PM

I'm honestly surprised we didn't see a more diverse set of alignments. With the exception of Alana, everyone is some kind of neutral.

Venger

2014-11-25, 10:20 PM

Shamelessly stolen for the first post :smallamused:

Thanks for that, dysprosium!

I'm honestly surprised we didn't see a more diverse set of alignments. With the exception of Alana, everyone is some kind of neutral.

that isn't really accurate. we have 6 builds total, 3 are neutral on the Good/Evil axis. 2 are neutral on the Law/Chaos axis, and 1 is not neutral on either axis.

seems pretty darn diverse to me.

OMG PONIES

2014-11-25, 10:23 PM

uh, no? Soulborn may suck, but it is a class.

Sorry, I fear I made my point clear as mud. I was contending that any creature without class levels has a meldshaper level, so that a creature with 6+racial HD would have met the meldshaping requirement of this Ingredient. Troacctid, however, was pointing out that meldshaper's definition contains the below phrase:

No, but it does say "for the purpose of shaping of a particular soulmeld", which is not applicable to creatures without meldshaping.

Therefore, it sounds like he was contending that only creatures who can shape 1 or more soulmelds has a meldshaper level. I was using the Soulborn in response, since they are stated as having a meldshaper level, though there is a point in their career when they have no soulmelds. Basically, the question I was raising is "based on the definitions provided on pp. 53-54 of MoI, must a creature be able to shape a soulmeld in order to have a meldshaper level in the first place?"

Venger

2014-11-25, 10:32 PM

Sorry, I fear I made my point clear as mud. I was contending that any creature without class levels has a meldshaper level, so that a creature with 6+racial HD would have met the meldshaping requirement of this Ingredient. Troacctid, however, was pointing out that meldshaper's definition contains the below phrase:

Therefore, it sounds like he was contending that only creatures who can shape 1 or more soulmelds has a meldshaper level. I was using the Soulborn in response, since they are stated as having a meldshaper level, though there is a point in their career when they have no soulmelds. Basically, the question I was raising is "based on the definitions provided on pp. 53-54 of MoI, must a creature be able to shape a soulmeld in order to have a meldshaper level in the first place?"

oh, I see. the phrase "for the purpose of shaping a particular soulmeld" doesn't really mean anything or add any information to that clause in MoI, and soulborn's existence means it's possible to have an ML without being able to shape any melds, so yes, a creature without SS or any other melds still RAW has an ML until he takes class levels.

witchborn binder, welcome to the schroedinger club.

WhamBamSam

2014-11-25, 10:37 PM

I'm honestly surprised we didn't see a more diverse set of alignments. With the exception of Alana, everyone is some kind of neutral.Three of the five builds with a neutral alignment component were forced into it by their classes (two are Incarnates and one is a Druid), while Skinner has to be either LN or LG between Dragonborn and Justiciar, and Limier is restricted to non-good alignment due to Justiciar of Taiia. Incarnate was one of the two means of entry that allow completion of the SI pre-epic, and a Druid dip can get one or both of the SI's prereq feats.

Anyway, I'm 1/3 of the way through my judging with two entries done. Unlike many posters here, I should basically be free over Thanksgiving, so I may well finish within the next few days and give you guys something to read as you sit and digest. Or sit and do whatever if you're not in the US/don't celebrate Thanksgiving.

Venger

2014-11-25, 10:40 PM

Three of the five builds with a neutral alignment component were forced into it by their classes (two are Incarnates and one is a Druid), while Skinner has to be either LN or LG between Dragonborn and Justiciar, and Limier is restricted to non-good alignment due to Justiciar of Taiia. Incarnate was one of the two means of entry that allow completion of the SI pre-epic, and a Druid dip can get one or both of the SI's prereq feats.

Anyway, I'm 1/3 of the way through my judging with two entries done. Unlike many posters here, I should basically be free over Thanksgiving, so I may well finish within the next few days and give you guys something to read as you sit and digest. Or sit and do whatever if you're not in the US/don't celebrate Thanksgiving.

Good analysis. I didn't want to say stuff, lest I be accused of spoiling your palate, but since you're the judge, it's ok if you say it.

Wow, sounds great. Looking forward to judgings.

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-26, 12:56 AM

Good analysis. I didn't want to say stuff, lest I be accused of spoiling your palate, but since you're the judge, it's ok if you say it.

Wow, sounds great. Looking forward to judgings.

That makes two of us i can't wait to see how well I did.
or rather how badly I slammed into last place.

A_S

2014-11-26, 03:53 AM

Is the extremely light blue color for "both hidden and sarcastic?"

Venger

2014-11-26, 03:59 AM

Is the extremely light blue color for "both hidden and sarcastic?"

since I highlighted it, I just assumed it was white. due to it not being FFFFFF, it isn't, and is indeed a very light blue. good catch.

I would view it as being hidden and not quite sarcastic (hence not the traditional use of normal blue) but in that general neighborhood. my guess would be it was intended as a self-deprecating effect so she didn't come off as being too overconfident.

if your build is the one I think it is, KrimsonNekros, you'll probably at least medal. whambamsam is a good judge, his system mastery is very solid.

I'm glad we got a judge for this round, honestly. incarnum scares away most chefs, I can't imagine what it does to judges.

KingAtomsk

2014-11-26, 09:20 AM

I'll get to work judging pronto. I will use my next post to judge all of the builds, adding them as I get time. Please be patient - I will get them all done as fast as I can.

KingAtomsk

2014-11-26, 10:06 AM

Lockdown Unit 4456

Originality: Oh surprise, a Ranger. And an Arcane Hunter, to boot. The temptation to use this class to qualify for skill and feat pre-reqs is nearly overwhelming (I know as I tried for a few hours to come up with a build and always wanted to default back to this). I also expected to see the Urban variant features.
The Mage Slayer line of feats is very predictable. Improved Trip + Knockdown is something we've all seen before for lockdown type builds.
I do truly like the use of Warforged, as it fits the alignment restriction of Incarnate very well. The fluff was well done (Shocking Fist as a taser-like weapon is spiffy). Re-fluffing the soulmelds as a type of Warforged upgrades also has high cool-factor and accounts for the possible flavor-damage how a robot has "soul energy," aka Essentia.
Overall, I give the originality for this build a 1.75

Power: I legitimately believe the SI for this round is so bad, it is impossible for it to be beneficial to a build relative to what other options could be taken for those levels.
I don't consider it cheesy to use the Urban Companion to gain Alertness as a bonus from having your companion nearby. It could have also contributed to the flavor if it had been worked in rigt. That sacrifice cost this build the chance to take the Pierce Magical Concealment feat, which is a hefty price.
As a big, beefy (metal-y?) Warforged, this build can be potent in combat with the help of its soulmelds. The bonus to Con improves the usefulness of Spiritflay and Grim Integument. Overall, worthy of a 4.0

Elegance: Everything is qualified for cleanly. I won't reward the avoidance of using the Urban Companion to pick up Alertness, as I mentioned before. The flow of the build is nice, maintaining a reasonable power and unquestionable play-ability throughout levels 1-20. Overall worth a 4.0

Use of SI: Soulmelds and essentia distribution were well-thought out to provide a balanced distribution of power for most of the Witchborn Binder class features. The pre-requisites are well-used, and Spiritflay and Grim Integument get good points for choosing a race to help boost the save DC. Overall I will award a 3.25

Final Score: 13

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-26, 03:09 PM

since I highlighted it, I just assumed it was white. due to it not being FFFFFF, it isn't, and is indeed a very light blue. good catch.

I would view it as being hidden and not quite sarcastic (hence not the traditional use of normal blue) but in that general neighborhood. my guess would be it was intended as a self-deprecating effect so she didn't come off as being overconfident .

Yeah let's go with that <.< >.>

I am curious as to which one you think is mine though.

Venger

2014-11-26, 04:46 PM

Yeah let's go with that <.< >.>

I am curious as to which one you think is mine though.

We'll discuss it after the reveal.

dysprosium

2014-11-26, 05:16 PM

It may be just me, but I'm having trouble identifying the chefs' builds.

I'm pretty sure I have certain ones pegged but who knows?

Venger

2014-11-26, 05:18 PM

It may be just me, but I'm having trouble identifying the chefs' builds.

I'm pretty sure I have certain ones pegged but who knows?

I don't blame you. We had (I think?) at least two first-timers this round, and KrimsonNekros hasn't cooked in a while, so it might be a little tricky to spot hers without doing some research first.

I always try to experiment with style so I don't fall into any creative ruts. piggy is usually able to pick mine out of a lineup though.

Heliomance

2014-11-26, 05:23 PM

It may be just me, but I'm having trouble identifying the chefs' builds.

I'm pretty sure I have certain ones pegged but who knows?

Pretty sure I've got them all right.

Venger

2014-11-26, 05:24 PM

Pretty sure I've got them all right.

Are you a wizard?

KrimsonNekros

2014-11-26, 06:14 PM

Are you a wizard?

If she is there's a few people she's going to need to avoid.

dysprosium

2014-11-26, 07:18 PM

If she is there's a few people she's going to need to avoid.

This round for sure . . .

MilesTiden

2014-11-26, 07:32 PM

I'm still really sad my build didn't actually work. :smallfrown: It was a Dvati, using Spellfire Channeler and Dispelling Orb to charge up lots of spellfire with the extra actions from Dvati... but Dispelling Orb is SU, not an SLA, even though it duplicates a spell. :smallannoyed: I think it would've worked well, but that one thing was standing in my way. (Also, the class being terrible, but eh.)

Zipding

2014-11-26, 07:39 PM

My build wanted to use Occult Slayer to help with disabling mages before using Mage Shackles and Grim Integument, but I didn't have enough time to rework my build to qualify for the SI.

Venger

2014-11-26, 07:42 PM

My build wanted to use Occult Slayer to help with disabling mages before using Mage Shackles and Grim Integument, but I didn't have enough time to rework my build to qualify for the SI.

I was shocked to see neither occult slayer nor witch slayer this round.

Amphetryon

2014-11-26, 08:21 PM

I was shocked to see neither occult slayer nor witch slayer this round.

But for an hour or so before my Sunday campaign, we almost had a Witch Slayer.

Troacctid

2014-11-26, 09:35 PM

I was shocked to see neither occult slayer nor witch slayer this round.

Honestly, while neither would have surprised me if they showed up, I can't be too shocked at their absence. This ingredient has so little wiggle room with its class levels; there's not much space for anything else.

WhamBamSam

2014-11-27, 12:46 PM

Judgings are completed. I realized partway through that I'd missed Meldshield in my judging criteria (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18409620&postcount=81), but it'd have been a minor ability (+0.25 for a decent use) and everyone pretty much totally ignored it anyway. Apologies if any of these came off as harsh and feel free to dispute if you think I got something wrong or the exact reasoning behind some number or other got lost in my ramblings.

LOCKDOWN Unit 4456 – 13.75 Originality – 1.5 I expected pretty much this exact build (Arcane Hunter Urban Companion Ranger 4, the Mage Slayer line). Arcane Hunter Rangers were actually more common than Totemist or Incarnate entry, and one other build used an Urban Companion as well. I didn’t necessarily envision this build being a Warforged, but as a race with a Con bonus it’s not exactly unexpected. The fact that it renders you immune to one of the awful things about Grim Integument is sorta cute, though, and keeps you from a minimum score here. (-0.75)

This looks like a pretty standard Mage Slayer build to me. The sort of thing that comes up in every thread about trying to kill casters as a non-caster. Knock-down tripping is a classic of melee optimization as well. It’s not quite stale enough to get knocked all the way to a minimum score, but yeah. (-0.75)

I like Robocop as much as the next guy, and you’d probably get your quarter point for fluff in a side competition, but I don’t think it’s quite enough for Iron Chef. (0)

Power – 3.75 Witchborn Binder could probably be replaced by other PrCs/classes, but it does seem to be benefitting your overall schtick. (+0.5)

And I suppose there’s a reason that the things in your build come up a lot in mage killer threads they (kinda, sorta, in low-op) work. Unfortunately, the Incarnum additions come up a little short due to your low Meldshaper level (Dispelling Orb, Words of Abrogation), or just generally poor scaling (Spellward Shirt). Also, you can’t take a free action to activate Shocking Fist when making an AoO, which throws a wrench into things. You’ve got a good Spiritflay though, and you’re right, nausea is nasty. So you’re not exactly bad at your job, but I do forsee some struggles. (+0.25)
Elegance – 4.25 You qualify for everything. (+0.5)
The build isn’t being held together by questionable rules interpretations or ultracheese. (+0.5)
Your progression is pretty straightforward. I honestly wish you had just gotten Alertness from your Urban Companion, as I don’t consider that overly cheesy at all, but that’s not enough to really hurt you here. Any reasonable DM would allow this, but it doesn’t quite fit together in a way that wows me. (+0.5)
You do however incur multiclass penalties from 6th level onward, and this isn’t really fixable. (-0.25)

UoSI – 4.25 You get one of the prereq feats as a bonus feat (and could easily have gotten the other that way) and the Arcane Hunter ACF that comes along with the Track bonus feat fits in well with the build. I wish you’d just filled in the skills for the rest of the table, but you do mention maxing one of the prereq skills, so that’s something. If you’d just taken the familiar’s Alertness or invested in one or two of the skills (say Survival for tracking), you might get credit, but as is, you come up just short. You obviously could do that, as you’ve got unused skill points even on levels you do put them in for, but you make no mention of it. (0)

You’re using the Detect Magic in basically the same way as everyone else, as a sensor to try to find enemies. (+0.25)

The extra essentia are significantly less than you’d get from the lost levels of meldshaper progression, but you’re certainly using them. (+0.25)

You lose a good number of meldshaper levels, but that’s less harmful to Mage Shackles than some of the other abilities, as you often don’t have to worry about SR, and entangling and dimensionally anchoring targets is pretty great on its own. Your use is basically standard, but I’ll call it good. (+0.5)

You lag a little bit behind on your Dispelling Orb due to your Ranger levels and the SI’s lost progression losing you Meldshaper levels. Also, since it references Dispel Magic, I believe Dispelling Orb’s dispel check caps at 1d20+10+essentia, though that actually makes your lost Meldshaping progression sting a bit less even if the character is worse on the whole. I’d say you make decent use of this. (+0.5)

You lose too many Meldshaper levels to really be reliable with Word of Abrogation, and have already lost most of them by the time you get it, which means there’s really no point in the build where it’s all that useful. You yourself admit that it won’t see much use in combat. (0)

Your Con adds up to 22 not 24, but even so, that’s solid enough that your Spiritflay ability is actually quite dangerous. I’m comfortable saying that you go above and beyond here. (+0.75)

As I said earlier, getting immunity to fatigue for Grim Integument is sorta clever, and your high Con makes the save a bit more respectable. You’ve only optimized this to “less bad” rather than “good,” so I can’t really say that you’ve gone “above and beyond,” but I’ll give you credit for a decent use of the ability. (+0.5)

You get your mileage out of the Meldshaping progression, getting a few extra soulmelds shaped and one more chakra bind (though thanks to the SI, you barely have enough chakras open to make use of the latter) in addition to the Meldshaper levels needed by the other Witchborn Binder abilities. (+0.5)

Skinner – 16.75 Originality – 4.5 Dragonborn Water Orc is a common staple of melee optimization which stops you short of full marks for being unexpected (though you’ll make up for it in other categories). I was sort of wondering if anyone would go Justiciar to try Hog-Tie stuff with the Mage Shackles, and y’know what? I’m glad someone did. You were distinct from the rest of the competition apart from the Totemist entry, which I’m not penalizing because of how limited the options were. (+0.75)

Totemist’s are pretty well known for their grappling prowess, and every grappler wants Improved Grab or something similar like Scorpion’s Grasp. Still, the combinations with the SI feel fresh, and Hog-Tie shenanigans are always fun to see. (+0.5)

Your fluff was pretty great. (+0.25)

Power – 4.5 The Hog-Tie/Mage Shackles combo gives you a clear reason to be here, and any grappler, especially one looking to glomp on spellcasters, would like a means of dispelling and possibly counterspelling, with Freedom of Movement being the bane of your existence. I still get the sense that you might have been better off leaving the SI a bit earlier to save yourself the meldshaper levels, or at least one level earlier to get the same Meldshaping progression and an extra point of BAB for grapple checks from Totemist, but on the whole the SI is clearly making you better at doing your thing, and I’m inclined to give you full marks here. (+0.75)

You’re a good grappler, though not quite as good as you think you are. Grapple checks operate in their own little world, and are not Str checks, hence the bonus from the Mauling Gauntlets does not apply. You also miss out on the Kraken Mantle, which would have helped you out a bit, as you never get your arms chakra open (you’d have needed Double Bind as well, but you have the meldshaper level to qualify). That said, your grapple numbers are still pretty high, and certainly enough to handle squishy caster marks so long as you can deal with Freedom of Movement and the like. To that end, you’re also pretty potent with the various SI abilities. The lost meldshaper levels do hurt a bit, but you actually have a short period when your Dispelling Orb is better than an equal level caster’s Dispel Magic, and you’ve got the highest Spiritflay DC of any of the entrants of this competition. On the whole, you do what you do quite well, but there’s significant room for improvement which keeps you a bit short of full marks here. (+0.75)

Elegance – 3 The Mauling Gauntlets hands bind only gives you the benefit of the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, not the feat itself. You do not qualify for Scorpion’s Grasp. (-0.5)

I generally go with the ruling that if something says it gives you the feat even if you don’t meet the prerequisites, then you still get the benefit even without qualifying. So you qualify for everything else. (0)

An extremely pedantic reading of Mage Shackles might result in the argument that they don’t count as manacles until you’ve put someone in them. It’s clearly too stupid for me to actually take points away, but I don’t feel right giving you your bonus for avoiding questionable rules interpretations either. (0)

Had Mauling Gauntlets worked the way you thought, this would have been an example of everything fitting together perfectly and would have gotten you full marks for this subcategory, but as is, you don’t quite get there. Your progression is still clean and should be accepted by any reasonable DM, but you don’t have the same wow factor that you might have. (+0.5)

You avoid multiclass penalties. (0)

UoSI – 4.75 You use several of the same prereq skills and Track feat to qualify for Justiciar as well as the SI, and max Use Rope for use with your Hog-Tie ability. That’s above and beyond from where I’m sitting. (+0.5)

You’ve got a few nice things on top of and alongside your Detect Magic for enemy detection. Having maxed out Spot, decent listen despite your low Wis, and racial darkvision alongside it are all nice, but having Clarity of Vision to see invisible enemies that ping on Detect Magic is what really kicks things up a notch. (+0.5)

The essentia comes up short of where your lost meldshaping levels would have gotten you, but you need every point you can get your four grubby little clawed mits on. (+0.25)

As I mentioned in Power, you actually have a small window of time (levels 8-11) where you can equal or beat a wizard’s dispel check when fully invested in this ability. You fall a little behind during your Justiciar levels, but as it references Dispel Magic and therefore doesn’t care about a meldshaper level above 10, you catch back up at least to the extent that you can do so. The fact that grapplers need dispelling so badly also helps you here. (+0.75)

Combining Mage Shackles and Hog-Tie gets you a gold star from me. (+0.75)

You lose too many meldshaper levels to really be effective with Word of Abrogation, and it seems awkward to fit readying an action for it it into your combat routine where you really want it (after initiating a grapple), unless you have a Belt of Battle or something. (0)

Even without the 10th level in the class, your massive Con has you tied with 4456 for the highest Spiritflay save DC in the competition. He got points for going above and beyond, so you do too. (+0.75)

You do not get the 10th level for Grim Integument, and do not provide an explanation for why leaving the SI early is a better use of the class. Your big combo with a SI ability, Mage Shackles+Hog-Tie, prevents you from taking more than 9 levels of the Secret Ingredient pre-Epic. That's a compelling case for being a better use of the secret ingredient despite not taking all 10 levels, so you get partial credit here. (+0.25)

Alana Kurudagnir – 9.75 Originality – 2 Arcane Hunter Ranger was more popular than either Totemist or Incarnate this round, and Martial Study (Some Shadow Hand), Martial Stance (Assassin’s Stance), Shadow Blade is an old standby feat chain. Soulborn and Incarnum Blade are surprises, but that’s mostly because they don’t actually qualify you for the SI. Wild Elf for Elf Soulborn’s immunity to charm effects is sort of flavorful though, I suppose. (-0.25)

There’s nothing mechanically unique at play here. The uncommon class choices are uncommon because they don’t really do much. (-1)

I did like your fluff though, even if it’s just a parody of an old song. I don’t know what it was about this SI that inspired so much Wild West flavor, but I approve. (+0.25)

Power – 1.5 Even the hypothetical version of this build which does actually qualify for the SI (say taking two more levels of Ranger for Urban Companion and nabbing Shape Soulmeld with the freed up feat) doesn’t seem to get much out of it. The big selling points you make with the various class abilities from a miscalculation on your meldshaper level (I can’t see anything that suggests Incarnum Blade increases your meldshaper level and Witchborn Binder only increases your meldshaper level at the levels that progress meldshaping and even then only at a ½ rate for Soulborns, as it says “as if you had gained a level in the meldshaping class to which you belonged prior to gaining the witchborn binder level”). You’d likely be better off with more Soulborn, and that’s saying something. (-0.5)

With your actual meldshaper level, you can’t really do much of anything with your abilities, and with low Str, a general dearth of class features that do much of anything, and not even getting Assassin’s Stance or Shadow Blade until 15th and 18th level, your damage output is really low. It’s really not looking good here. (-1)

Elegance – 4.5 You qualify for everything besides the SI. (+0.5)

As I’m harping on about your rules mistakes in other categories, I’ll toss you a bone and say that you aren’t using questionable rules interpretations. (+0.5)

I suppose there’s nothing all that objectionable about your progression, or at least nothing that wouldn’t be double dipping you for your failure to qualify for the SI. (+0.5)

You avoid multiclass penalties. (0)

UoSI – 1.75 You do not qualify for the SI, as you have a Soulborn meldshaper level of 1 and possibly an Incarnum Blade meldshaper level of 5 when you try to enter, which do not stack. You will receive a quarter point penalty to a minimum of zero for each class ability subcategory.

Apart from lack of the meldshaper level, you do a bit with the prereqs, getting Track for free and investing heavily in a few of the skills. Not enough to get past the penalty though. (0)

You use Detect Magic in the same way as everyone else, without any special frills to get you over the hump. (0)

The extra essentia are actually equal to what you’d get with 4 more levels of Soulborn meldshaping. I’ll call that above and beyond. So you get to daylight on this one. (+0.25)

Your meldshaper level never even reaches 10 for the Dispelling Orb, contrary to what you say in your write-up. You’d get partial credit at best, and with your penalty, no points. (0)

Mage Shackles aren’t crippled as badly as some other abilities by a low meldshaper level, so you’re basically in the realm of what I’m considering a decent use here. That gets you a quarter point with your penalty. (+0.25)

Word of Abrogation really needs a high meldshaper level though. (0)

You’d have decent enough save DC on Spiritflay though, and would be alright even with the two levels of Witchborn Binder you’d have to lose in order to actually qualify with something resembling your build. (+0.25)

Grim Integument isn’t optimized to the (significant) degree it would have to be to be usable, and you’d have to drop it in a version of this build that actually qualifies anyway. (0)

Soulborn meldshaping progression is pretty crap, and you waste the one chakra bind that you get as you never actually have any chakras open. I might have given partial credit here, but with your penalty, it’s going to be another zero. (0)

Vedo D'Nigh – 18 Originality – 4.25 I’m never that surprised to see Cloistered Cleric, but it wasn’t high on my list of expected things this round and you were the only one. There was another Illumian this round, but you have different sigils and use them for different things. I’m not penalizing Incarnate, and your build (or what little remains apart from the SI and Incarnate levels) is pretty unique. (+0.5)

The use of the Inquisition Domain power and Krau sigil to pump your dispel checks and counterspells are clever and flavorful, and I like the use of Soultouched Spellcasting. The use of the SI’s (Sp) abilities to qualify for Arcane Mastery despite the SI prohibiting access to arcane casting classes is also sorta nifty. I’m on the fence with regard to the Divine Defiance thing, since the feat is somewhat well known, and I’m not totally sure that the tricks work (see Elegance), but you should at least get points for trying. (+0.75)

The fluff tells me enough about who the character is to be getting along with, but I find myself wanting more. (0)

Power – 4.75 I can definitely see why Witchborn Binder is here. You’re running an almost pure meldshaper build with a focus on optimizing the types of things that the SI requires. You want to hunt mages, and the SI is actually legitimately making you better at it. (+0.75)

You look pretty solid at what you do to me, you’ve got enough meldshaping to do a pretty wide variety of things if you put your mind to it, and you’re a legitimate pest even to equivalent level full casters who aren’t ready for you with your dispelling and counterspelling. (+1)

Elegance – 4 I almost derped on Divine Defiance, until I realized that your Krau sigil boosts your divine CL to 3. You qualify for everything. (+0.5)

The Divine Defiance+Word of Abrogation combo strikes me as just the tiniest bit fishy. I guess that the line of Divine Defiance that says you need to have the relevant spell or Dispel Magic prepared does say “as normal” so that could be construed as not needing them if your normal means of counterspelling doesn’t require having the spell, but it seems sketchy from where I’m sitting. This is some pretty douchey rules lawyering on my part, but I think the concern is significant enough to keep you from getting your bonus half-point, like Skinner. (0)

You have one dip which some DMs might look askance at, but it shouldn’t really be objectionable. (+0.5)

Multiclass penalties are avoided. Thanks Favored Class: Any! (0)

UoSI – 5 You max out one of the prerequisite skills, but you seem like the prereqs are more of a tax on the build. (0)

You have an additional use for the Detect Magic ability beyond using it as a sensor like everyone else in the form of your Magical Appraisal skill trick. (+0.5)

Your essentia lag behind what you’d get without lost meldshaper levels, but you’re certainly using the points you get, especially with Soultouched Spellcasting basically serving as a way to sink more essentia into several of your abilities. (+0.25)

Your Dispelling Orb is a force to be reckoned with between your Inquisition Domain and Soultouched Spellcasting. You can outdo Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic of a standard Wizard from the moment you get the ability onward. If that’s not above and beyond, nothing is. (+0.75)

Soultouched Spellcasting does help you beat SR with your Mage Shackles, but most of your other CL boosting stuff doesn’t apply here. Still, you’re using the ability well enough. (+0.5)

Whether or not the Krau sigil boosts your check, and whether or not the Divine Defiance combo works, you can still always meet the caster level check DC of an equal level spellcaster with Word of Abrogation by taking 10 through Arcane Mastery if you’re fully invested in the ability and in Soultouched Spellcasting from level 15 onwards. You took this ability and optimized the crap out of it. EDIT: Soultouched Spellcasting's bonus doesn't actually stack here, but you can take 10 with Arcane Mastery, and even without the Soultouched Spellcasting bonus, a straight wizard without CL boosters doesn't catch you until ECL 18. You're still above and beyond here and would have a 5 in UoSI even with just a 0.5 here. (+0.75)

You don’t quite pump the Spiritflay save DC as high as a few other entries do, but you get close, and you get the ability at an earlier level when opposing saves are lower. I’m comfortable saying that you went above and beyond here too. (+0.75)

You don’t do much with Grim Integument, other than have a decent Con, which is a bit short of the benchmark I’m looking for as a good use of this awful, awful capstone, but I’ll give you partial credit, and you’re doing so well in the overall category that you’d be fine even without any points here. (+0.25)

You get your money’s worth out of the meldshaping progression, and take enough Incarnate levels to get a few high-ish level chakras open despite Witchborn Binder being dumb in that regard. (+0.5)

“The Doctor” Belthataur – 13 Originality – 3.75 I expected Druid dips for Alertness through Urban Companion and Track through Swift and Deadly Hunter. You only went for one of those, but it looks like you just missed Swift and Deadly Hunter, as it’d cost you nothing even if all you used was Track. I also sort of expected some Share Soulmeld shenanigans with Altertness-granting familiars, though you were the only one to go that route and the only one to actually use a Druid dip, though there was another build with an Urban Companion. There was another Illumian, though you use different power sigils. I’m a little confused as to why you chose the sigils you did, though. I guess a bonus on Ref saves is sort of nice, but you lack the Dex to boost checks to overcome SR without items, and I can’t see any Con checks or Con based skills that are important to you, unless you’re misinterpreting that as including Fort saves or the save DCs of your Witchborn Binder abilities. Fleshwarper was a nice idea, though, and you get a little bit back for the grafting stuff here, and come out a little bit ahead in terms of uniqueness. (+0.25)

Sharing soulmelds with a tricked out familiar is sort of a nice thought, but it’s somewhat well known as a “pimp my pet” type feat. Urban Companion as a means of entering Fleshwarper is sort of novel, if a bit suspect (see Elegance). (+0.5)

The fluff tells me enough about who the character is to be getting along with, but I find myself wanting more. (0)

Power – 2 I can’t figure out what Witchborn Binder is supposed to be bringing to this build other than flavor. All your class abilities are overshadowed by the 3/day cone of AMF (in which they do not work) that you’re looking to get with your grafts. I guess Royal Purse might help you out with crafting costs and purchasing spellcasting services for startup costs to your business, but really, you seem like you would have been better off avoiding the SI entirely. (-0.5)

You really could be a much better grafter and meldshaper. You need help to provide spells for pretty much all beholder grafts between the Druid list missing things and just not having enough levels of casting progression. Decent meldshaping shared with your familiar is something, but you lack higher level chakras and your familiar inherits low BAB from you (though its HP is alright). You’ve got a decent Spiritflay I guess, and nauseated things are going to have more trouble getting out of an AMF cone. You can sorta do a few things, but there are issues here. (-0.5)

Elegance – 3.75 You probably qualify for everything, see below for the note on Fleshwarper and Urban Companion. (+0.5)

While Urban Companion is explicitly mostly identical to a Sorcerer or Wizard’s ability to summon a familiar, it’s not clear that the Urban Companion feature counts as the Summon Familiar class feature, which is a prerequisite for Fleshwarper. (-0.25)

You’re a little dippier than some of the other builds, but not enough that it should be an issue. It’s not a thing of beauty, but it should go over fine with a reasonable DM. (+0.5)

You avoid multiclass penalties, as you have Favored Class: Any. (0)

UoSI – 3.5 You get one of the prereq feats for free (you could have gotten the other but didn’t), but don’t really do anything with any of the prereqs, and don’t seem to really do anything with any of the skills. If you’d made the easy grab of Track from Swift and Deadly Hunter, you’d probably get credit, but between paying that feat tax as a tax (as in, not really using it for much), and not listing skills past the point where you’ve met the prereqs for your various PrCs, you come up short. (0)

You’re using Detect Magic basically the same way as everyone else, for enemy detection. (+0.25)

You and your familiar are using every bit of essentia you can get, even if you’re short of what you’d get without the lost meldshaper levels. (+0.25)

You get into the SI early enough to have a period where your Dispelling Orb check is better than an equal level caster’s dispel check, and you at least get to a meldshaper level of 10 where the ability maxes out due to referencing the spell Dispel Magic. That’s pretty good. (+0.5)

Your Mage Shackles are rendered a bit redundant (and risk being suppressed into effective nonexistence) by your grafting AMF shenanigans. You also have a slightly low meldshaper level, though that matters less for this ability. You sort of have an ability through your race to boost the check against things with SR, but only if you boost your Dex with spells or items. I only feel right giving partial credit here. (+0.25)

You really need a higher meldshaper level to use Word of Abrogation effectively. (0)

You’ve got a respectable save DC on your Spiritflay, and it’s one of the few abilities that plays nicely with your AMF graft (or rather your familiar/ally’s graft, since someone needs to spend a standard action activating the AMF in the same round). (+0.5)

You don’t really do anything to optimize Grim Integument, and it’s the ability most in need of it. (0)

You have some chakras open for the binds you get from the meldshaping progression (even if you could use a few more), and sharing the melds with your familiar kicks it up a notch. I’ll say you go above and beyond here, though that’s sort of more indication that you’d be better off with some other progression that didn’t cost you so many meldshaper levels. (+0.75)

Limier du Sorcier – 15.5 Originality – 4.25 Arcane Hunter Ranger rears its head yet again, though Distracting Attack as opposed to Urban Companion was a little unexpected. Props for having the guts to go for the Shape Soulmeld entry. Bloodhound and Justiciar of Taiia were unexpected as well, and Lupin is as you say, an underused race which you do seem to actually be using for things. Ranger was too common and expected this round for you to get a perfect score, but you come close. (+0.75)

Using Bloodhound to have Word of Abrogation readied out of initiative is nifty. That’s enough for you to do better than break even. You’re not too far out of the ordinary for a Ranger archer other than that, though the incarnum does spice things up a bit. (+0.5)

Your fluff is enough to tell me who the character is, and I liked the picture, but it feels a bit rushed (probably due to scrambling to meet the extended deadline) and could stand to show a bit more about the character. (0)

Power – 3 I can see the appeal of the SI here, but ultimately, I think your low meldshaper level, and a few other things like losing Hide and Move Silently as class skills, make it slightly problematic. I’m inclined toward giving you some benefit of the doubt, especially as archers, like grapplers in the case of Skinner, have a few specific spells which they find really obnoxious. Having an action ready to counterspell if they try to throw up a Wind Wall is a nice thing when you go in for the kill, so I’ll call it even. (0)

Your damage output is alright between a few Sneak Attack dice and a couple of sources of bonus damage, but you’re lagging well behind what a Swift Hunter build might be doing, and you don’t seem to be getting your money’s worth from Knowledge Devotion (religion is the only knowledge you really invest in, not even a point in local to make trained checks against the humanoid races which a lot of the casters you hunt will belong to, no Collector of Stories, etc, Education gave you all knowledges as class skills too, not just religion) or from your incarnum stuff, which you don’t get essential to invest in until late levels, and never have enough to invest in more than one thing at a time. Darkstalker makes your stealth somewhat passable, though dropping the stealth skills upon going into Witchborn Binder saddens me. Your Witchborn Binder abilities give you some added utility in combat, but are often lacking oomph due to your low meldshaper level. You can track and scout quite well, so you have some out of combat utility, which is a good thing and keeps this more or less a wash. (0)

Elegance – 4.5 You qualify for everything. (+0.5)

The build isn’t held together with questionable rules interpretations or ubercheese. (+0.5)

You have a dip in bloodhound, but aren’t dipping all over the place and I can’t see this being particularly objectionable. Things fit together pretty nicely, but I don’t think you quite get over the half-point hump where I’ve left everyone else to earn full marks, partially due to the same skill issues I mentioned in Power. (+0.5)

Multiclass penalties are avoided. (0)

UoSI – 3.75 You use prereq skills and one prereq feat (which you pick up for free) to qualify for two other PrCs, put effort into competent tracking, (15 ranks, a small boost from your race, Bloodhound), and make use of your maxed Knowledge (Religion) through Knowledge Devotion. You go above and beyond here. (+0.5)

You have the Lupin’s ability to pinpoint invisible creatures bolstering the Detect Magic scanning for enemies that everyone has. (+0.5)

With no meldshaping progression, you really need the extra essentia to fuel things. You just scrape enough to fully invest in abilities from 16th level onwards. (+0.5)

Your Dispelling Orb comes up a little short due to getting it late, your low meldshaper level, and the lack of sufficient essentia to invest fully in it prior to level 16. You do eventually get to the CL cap set by Dispel Magic, but only at 20th level. You just do enough to scrape partial credit here. (+0.25)

You admit yourself that using the Mage Shackles requires a deviation from your usual modus operandi. Your low meldshaper level also hurts a bit, though less than for some other abilities. (+0.25)

I really like the idea behind the Ready and Waiting+Word of Abrogation combo, but your low meldshaper level really hurts. When you get Word of Abrogation at level 18, you need a 16 on your roll to counterspell a spellcaster with a CL of 18, and it gets a bit worse from there. The fact that it doesn’t cost you in-combat actions is the saving grace here, but I can’t really say that you go above and beyond. (+0.5)

Your Spiritflay save DC is a bit lower than the rest of the pack between slightly less investment in Con and not completing the SI. It’s still decent for you, but I think I’ve got to bump you down to partial credit here as well. (+0.25)

You don’t get Grim Integument, and I disagree with your assessment that the late Shape Soulmeld entry is a better use of the SI. I can see your reasoning behind it, but ultimately Witchborn Binder’s abilities lose too much oomph without a higher meldshaper level. (0)

You do not use the meldshaping progression. (0)

Heliomance

2014-11-27, 01:15 PM

Alana Kurudagnir – 10.75
The only thing that keeps Incarnum Blade from being incredibly awkward with Soulborn is the fact that you never get any actual chakras open to compete with the Blademeld for bind slots. I suppose there’s nothing all that objectionable about your progression, or at least nothing that wouldn’t be double dipping you for your failure to qualify for the SI. (+0.5)

Point of order: Binding a blademeld explicitly does not close the corresponding body slot.

WhamBamSam

2014-11-27, 01:41 PM

Point of order: Binding a blademeld explicitly does not close the corresponding body slot.Huh, I had thought that only applied to magic items and did still close the chakra to soulmelds for some reason. You are correct, though it's a moot point as Alana never gets any of her chakras open to soulmelds anyway, and there's no change in the score. I will edit the post accordingly though.

Heliomance

2014-11-27, 06:23 PM

An explanation was requested.

You do not get the 10th level for Grim Integument, and do not provide an explanation for why leaving the SI early is a better use of the class. (0)

I had initially written up an explanation for why I elected not to take the 10th level of the secret ingredient for a number of reasons, the most important of which was justiciar's hog-tie ability.

Justiciar can, at the absolute earliest, be entered at level 6 and gives its hog-tie ability at 5, leaving at maximum, 9 levels available for witchborn binder. The amount of utility Skinner gains from hog-tie is far greater than what little benefit can be reaped from grim integument and grim integument makes you actively worse at being a witchborn binder. It's better to take the 5th level of justiciar and get hog-tie, which is boosted via mage shackles, a better use of the SI's abilities.

Since an explanation was requested, here it is from the first draft of my lvl 20 playtips:

Why don’t you have grim integument (seriously what is up with these names? someone got a word-a-day calendar while writing this class, I’m sure of it) I hear you ask?

The answer is quite simple: It actively makes you worse at being a witchborn binder, so in a contest where the aim is to make the strongest witchborn binder, it is only logical to leave it off.

Allow me to explain:

Unlike your mage shackles ability, which is able to be synergized with via justiciar, grim integument functions essentially in a vacuum without anything that can boost it very well. It’s keyed off your ML and needs to overcome SR, so it's unlikely to take effect, and a successful save renders targets immune, so at best you have wasted your full-round action (leaving you vulnerable and preventing movement)

The target can still use verbal-component only spells, like dimension door or translocation trick (jamming you into this deathtrap) of precisely the kind he’ll have handy to escape stuff like this.

It renders them immune to targeting or further damage via plinking through totemist breath weapons or normal melee attacks from your claws.

It can also be damaged, burst with a str check (at 20+essentia, it’s not very hard) or can be destroyed normally through HP damage or unshaped.

That alone would be workable, but the reason I find this detrimental to your continued existence as a witchborn binder is that when it’s destroyed, it takes the essentia invested away from you for 24 hours and fatigues you, plus you are tethered within 30 feet of the target, so it prevents you from moving around the battlefield if the target has other people around him you need to fight (very likely)

Unshaping the meld is another full round, a terrible use of your actions in combat, and if the target teleports out, it doesn’t follow and you have to start over again.

This in addition to its low uses per day (the food’s terrible and the portions are too small) means that it really makes you a lot worse as a witchborn binder, so I can’t in good conscience recommend taking it.

WhamBamSam

2014-11-27, 06:56 PM

@Skinner: Thanks. I should've been able to figure that out myself by counting, but it never hurts to spell things out. Your main combo with a SI ability preventing you from taking more than 9 levels pre-Epic is a good enough case for non-completion being a better use of the SI. So by my rubric, you get partial credit for Grim Integument. +0.25 to UoSI

OMG PONIES

2014-11-28, 12:02 AM

WhamBamSam

2014-11-28, 12:30 AM

Thanks for judging, WhamBamSam! I don't have an...er, pony in this race, but just a few arithmetic questions:

Lockdown's Originality doesn't match my quick addition of the items inside the spoiler.
Skinner's Elegance doesn't match my quick addition of the items inside the spoiler.
Vedo D'Nigh's Use of Secret Ingredient items add up to 5.25, but I assume you stopped at the usual max of 5, yes?
The spreadsheet demands answers! Also, slightly related, is anyone as sad as I am that dndtools finally got a Cease & Decist from WotC? :smallfrown:I'm more than happy to appease the spreadsheet.

Lockdown's Originality looks right to me. 3-0.75-0.75=3-1.5=1.5. Yes?

You're right on Skinner. I'll go edit accordingly. That widens Vedo's lead back out to 0.75

That is correct. Several of my criteria can potentially exceed the maximum score in a given category. For instance, I like it to be technically possible to get a 5 in Originality without the quarter point for fluff. In UoSI, it's not possible to get a 5 without going above and beyond in a few categories, but if you go above and beyond in enough, you can exceed the cap and still get a 5 without optimizing all of the other features.

EDIT: It is a little irksome, yeah. Also, we probably shouldn't discuss it here. You may have been busy with real life or whatever and not noticed, but several threads on the subject were locked last week and the mods were getting pretty annoyed by the end of it.

Venger

2014-11-28, 12:39 AM

Thanks for judging, WhamBamSam! I don't have an...er, pony in this race, but just a few arithmetic questions:

Lockdown's Originality doesn't match my quick addition of the items inside the spoiler.
Skinner's Elegance doesn't match my quick addition of the items inside the spoiler.
Vedo D'Nigh's Use of Secret Ingredient items add up to 5.25, but I assume you stopped at the usual max of 5, yes?
The spreadsheet demands answers! Also, slightly related, is anyone as sad as I am that dndtools finally got a Cease & Decist from WotC? :smallfrown:

We all are. I'm sadder than I can possibly express. I used it literally every single day of my life. Unfortunately we're not allowed to talk about it anymore, and I don't want to get an active iron chef thread locked, so let's leave it at that.

You are incorrect about lockdown. 3-.75-.75=1.5. His originality is correct.

Alana Kurudagnir's score is tabulated incorrectly. the scores add up to 9.75, not 10.75. the totals within each header add up to their indicated values.

All other ingredients' totals and subtotals are tabulated correctly.

Are you the only judge for this? I think so.

WhamBamSam

2014-11-28, 01:11 AM

We all are. I'm sadder than I can possibly express. I used it literally every single day of my life. Unfortunately we're not allowed to talk about it anymore, and I don't want to get an active iron chef thread locked, so let's leave it at that.

You are incorrect about lockdown. 3-.75-.75=1.5. His originality is correct.

Alana Kurudagnir's score is tabulated incorrectly. the scores add up to 9.75, not 10.75. the totals within each header add up to their indicated values.

All other ingredients' totals and subtotals are tabulated correctly.

Are you the only judge for this? I think so.You're right about Alana. I'll make another edit. I can't believe that I made this many addition errors.

KingAtomsk said he'd judge and has posted scores for Lockdown. Hopefully he'll do the remaining five and we'll have a second judge.

Venger

2014-11-28, 01:30 AM

You're right about Alana. I'll make another edit. I can't believe that I made this many addition errors.

KingAtomsk said he'd judge and has posted scores for Lockdown. Hopefully he'll do the remaining five and we'll have a second judge.

it's fine. it often happens in judging, often relics of an earlier draft of a dish's scores that linger through via a formatting error once you're figuring out what to bold/spoiler. gets tricky.

ah, right. he mentioned something on the last page. I'd forgotten.

Kesnit

2014-11-28, 09:31 AM

Are you the only judge for this? I think so.

I plan to judge. I'm hoping to get to it early next week.

Sian

2014-11-28, 11:28 AM

any chance that one of the 'wanna-judges' could head over to Zinc XXIX (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?377945-Zinc-Saucier-XXIX-Were-you-going-to-cast-that/) and take a stap at judging the two builds there?

Heliomance

2014-12-03, 10:45 AM

What would people think, hypothetically, about occasionally having a homebrew SI?

Venger

2014-12-03, 10:51 AM

What would people think, hypothetically, about occasionally having a homebrew SI?

it would depend on the ingredient of course, but I'm not opposed to it on principle. what would the source be?

Heliomance

2014-12-03, 10:53 AM

it would depend on the ingredient of course, but I'm not opposed to it on principle. what would the source be?

Dunno. It's still a hypothetical at the moment, as I currently have 3 or 4 months of SIs already chosen. But I might pull some interesting things from the Homebrew forums, or even give my own creations some love!

Amphetryon

2014-12-03, 11:01 AM

The only issue I see with homebrew is it's rarely been as thoroughly examined as the official material, so accidental breakage is more likely.

Heliomance

2014-12-03, 11:32 AM

The only issue I see with homebrew is it's rarely been as thoroughly examined as the official material, so accidental breakage is more likely.

PFFFHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Truenamer.

Sian

2014-12-03, 11:49 AM

He didn't say that all official material was all equally thoroughly examined. He said that Homebrew regularily is even less so

dysprosium

2014-12-03, 12:07 PM

Truenamer has been examined.

And it has been found generally lacking.

sakuuya

2014-12-03, 12:53 PM

What would people think, hypothetically, about occasionally having a homebrew SI?

The only problem I see with this is that in order to be a good SI, the homebrew PrC would have to be pretty awful, and I'm not sure I feel comfortable with the implied "your work is so comedically bad we made a challenge out of building decent characters with it" when applied to fans rather than, say, whoever was paid to write Witchborn Binder. If the homebrewer was cool with their work being used as an ingredient, though, I'd be up for it.

The Viscount

2014-12-03, 01:23 PM

I agree with Sakuuya. Furthermore, because most homebrew classes have feedback and many undergo revisions for cleanup, it might be difficult to find one suitable to our needs. If we could I see no reason why not.

Vaz

2014-12-03, 01:35 PM

Venger

2014-12-03, 02:27 PM

I think a homebrew SI would be asking a bit too much. I wouldn't mind seeing certain - prespecified - homebrew fixes to certain classes allowed - i.e Truenamer, for example, but full SI classes? With respect, there's a homebrewing forum, which already has competitions run - usually involving the creation of a particular type of homebrew, but I can't see why you wouldn't be able to make an Iron Chef equivalent over there.

While the talk of a few fixes or houserules here and there in the 3.5 section is fairly common in threads, for the most part, it deals with the "pure" game, regardless of how stupid some things are. I may join in every once in a while with a homebrew competition, like the Zinc Saucier - but having it run at the "expense" of an actual SI from the game from which there are a ton? Eh, can't say I'd be too happy about that, regardless of how illogical that is.

Personally, I would not be averse to having a homebrew ingredient as one of iron chef's actual rounds. Statistically, every potential chef can't be interested in every ingredient. I had a pretty good streak going from shadowdancer pretty much straight through to talon of tiamat before my combo was broken with cipher adept, and having an SI we're just not interested in is a boat many of us were in with acolyte of the ego. even this round obviously isn't for everyone, due to how few members give a crap about meldshaping, so I would pretty much view an SI I wasn't interested in the same way I would a homebrew I wasn't interested in and wouldn't say it "cost" an iron chef, myself.

One compromise could be to run the homebrew competition parallel to the next iron chef while we wait, since the december iron chef always has a very long time for cooking/judging/disputes/etc, so it would cut down on our wait time and such, and could serve as a tracer to see how it works and whether people like it, so it wouldn't "cost" us an iron chef round.

One way we could handle SI selection differently is for our chair to make use of some kind of anonymous poll on quizilla or quizmonkey or something, where prospective chefs could anonymously vote for one of a bank of the chair's selection as to which homebrewed SI they think would be best for the round. this could also prevent too much arguing about whether pastamancer or wearer of hats was a better ingredient in the thread proper and would let people regardless of clout, knowledge, or persuasive ability have something of a voice when it came to picking the SI. that way the chair could evaluate data and pick the ingredient with the most votes. Or not.

As far as a name for the homebrew contest/special iron chef round (especially if it does stay in the iron chef threads proper) I propose we call it the Culinary Curveball. It adheres to the Iron Chef theme, and is a perfect descriptor for a normal Iron Chef round with an unexpected twist.

Deadasadoor

2014-12-03, 02:32 PM

snip

I agree with this, I've seen a lot of interesting homebrew classes floating around, and a vote would be appropriate. The idea of it being parallel to Iron Chef is a lot of work for judges/cooks, but also neat.

Sian

2014-12-03, 02:52 PM

even this round obviously isn't for everyone, due to how few members give a crap about meldshaping, so I would pretty much view an SI I wasn't interested in the same way I would a homebrew I wasn't interested in and wouldn't say it "cost" an iron chef, myself.

I think it had more to do with the limited ways to qualify than meldshaping in itself. At least that was the one of the primary reasons why i never got around finishing my dish

Gemini476

2014-12-03, 02:57 PM

What kind of Prestige Class are we talking about, anyway? A decent one from GitP's own forums, a horrible one from one of the dnd wikis, a published third-party one?

Because the quality of homebrew material is pretty varied. Perhaps even more so than WotC's own material, since it doesn't need to be vetted before being published and can therefore be even worse. Or even better, since homebrewers may have more experience with 3E than WotC's writers had at this point.

Heliomance

2014-12-03, 02:58 PM

I think it had more to do with the limited ways to qualify than meldshaping in itself. At least that was the one of the primary reasons why i never got around finishing my dish

So does that mean everyone will be nice and interested in the Spinemeld Warrior round? ^_^

What kind of Prestige Class are we talking about, anyway? A decent one from GitP's own forums, a horrible one from one of the dnd wikis, a published third-party one?

Because the quality of homebrew material is pretty varied. Perhaps even more so than WotC's own material, since it doesn't need to be vetted before being published and can therefore be even worse. Or even better, since homebrewers may have more experience with 3E than WotC's writers had at this point.

Probably vaguely decent ones, to avoid the aforementioned problem with going "Your homebrew is so terrible we made it an SI!", and because there are a few classes I've had my eye on and would like to see what you can do with them.

Apart from the ones I wrote, of course. They'll be terrible.

Sian

2014-12-03, 03:36 PM

maybe some of Giants own homebrew?

These (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9622876&postcount=5) Two (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9623257&postcount=8) seems viable for the average level of competence

Zipding

2014-12-03, 06:11 PM

So does that mean everyone will be nice and interested in the Spinemeld Warrior round? ^_^

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Please no Spinemeld Warrior.

Fax Celestis

2014-12-03, 06:12 PM

What would people think, hypothetically, about occasionally having a homebrew SI?

Yes. Yes yes yes.

And if you use one of my homebrews, I promise I'll judge and give rules clarifications.

WhamBamSam

2014-12-03, 08:09 PM

Homebrew SIs seem like more of a side competition thing to me (ie, creating a new side competition (say, Down Home Cookin' Optimization Challenge in the Playground?) which is like Iron Chef, but uses homebrew SIs) but I'd probably participate either way.

Speaking of side competitions, Ponies, are you still interested in chairing Junkyard Wars? I'd be willing to take it over from you if you'd rather not bother with it.

Venger

2014-12-03, 09:02 PM

I think it had more to do with the limited ways to qualify than meldshaping in itself. At least that was the one of the primary reasons why i never got around finishing my dish

I think that was definitely a factor, but the two in tandem resulted in a small round. sometimes, people aren't intersted in an SI, and I think that's part of the game, so I don't think "I don't care about homebrew and won't cook it" is a valid objection to the idea of a Culinary Curveball round any more than "I don't care about meldshaping/truenaming/pact magic" is a valid objection for an SI.

What kind of Prestige Class are we talking about, anyway? A decent one from GitP's own forums, a horrible one from one of the dnd wikis, a published third-party one?

Because the quality of homebrew material is pretty varied. Perhaps even more so than WotC's own material, since it doesn't need to be vetted before being published and can therefore be even worse. Or even better, since homebrewers may have more experience with 3E than WotC's writers had at this point.

I'd be game to plumb the depths of dragon magazine for an experimental round. there are some not entirely broken and/or horrible classes in there. I'd love to throw down a thrall of zuggtmoy or something.

So does that mean everyone will be nice and interested in the Spinemeld Warrior round? ^_^

Probably vaguely decent ones, to avoid the aforementioned problem with going "Your homebrew is so terrible we made it an SI!", and because there are a few classes I've had my eye on and would like to see what you can do with them.

Apart from the ones I wrote, of course. They'll be terrible.

>implying

I will cook for spinemeld warrior basically because I know I will have a very narrow field of competition and will be likely to medal. I in no way condone unprovoked acts of spinemeld warrior deployed against an innocent civilian population on its own merit.

One other factor is (not knowing anything about your homebrew, chair) I gather you wouldn't willfully make a horrible prestige class just to make it difficult for chefs. Part of the challenge in IC is that the designers (allegedly) thought they were giving prcs at least some kind of redeeming factors, so there should be some stuff to glom onto. if you did, I think that might be problematic.

Homebrew SIs seem like more of a side competition thing to me (ie, creating a new side competition (say, Down Home Cookin' Optimization Challenge in the Playground?) which is like Iron Chef, but uses homebrew SIs) but I'd probably participate either way.

Speaking of side competitions, Ponies, are you still interested in chairing Junkyard Wars? I'd be willing to take it over from you if you'd rather not bother with it.

I'm fine either way. If subsuming iron chef would rustle jimmies, I'm okay with making it another side contest. I don't think anyone who wants to cook in it will complain that it's not an official iron chef.

I still like "Culinary Curveball" as a title. "Not My Mama's Meals" might work too.

Heliomance

2014-12-04, 01:34 AM

Yes. Yes yes yes.

And if you use one of my homebrews, I promise I'll judge and give rules clarifications.

Your homebrews all use a slightly different ruleset though, don't they?

Fax Celestis

2014-12-04, 09:23 AM

Your homebrews all use a slightly different ruleset though, don't they?

The newer stuff. And 3.5 adaptation is incredibly straightforward.

OMG PONIES

2014-12-04, 09:26 AM

What would people think, hypothetically, about occasionally having a homebrew SI?

Intrigued, if a bit trepidatious.

Speaking of side competitions, Ponies, are you still interested in chairing Junkyard Wars? I'd be willing to take it over from you if you'd rather not bother with it.

All yours, kind sir. I unfortunately find myself without the time to give it due attention currently. If you're interested in my bizarre ideas on possible combinations, my PM box awaits. If you're not interested, carry on.

I'm fine either way. If subsuming iron chef would rustle jimmies, I'm okay with making it another side contest. I don't think anyone who wants to cook in it will complain that it's not an official iron chef.

Agreed.

Heliomance

2014-12-04, 10:32 AM

If people prefer the idea of running homebrew concurrently with normal ones, I could sstart one up in a couple of weeks - this one's about to finish, and I don't think we want to competitions cooking at the same time, but I could sync them so one's cooking while the other's judging.

Venger

2014-12-04, 11:06 AM

Sian

2014-12-04, 11:49 AM

with the ammount of different competitions going on (IC, ZS, JW(?)) it would be impossible to make it so no two competitions is cooking at the same time

dysprosium

2014-12-04, 12:28 PM

with the amount of different competitions going on (IC, ZS, JW(?)) it would be impossible to make it so no two competitions is cooking at the same time

Unfortunately I don't think that is feasible anymore.

And speaking from the Zinc Saucier side . . .

since ZS has gone downhill in popularity lately, I've increased the cooking and judging times to three weeks each to try and get as many interested parties as possible.

That alone would make it impossible to correlate with Iron Chef schedule.

Temotei

2014-12-04, 12:34 PM

Unfortunately I don't think that is feasible anymore.

And speaking from the Zinc Saucier side . . .

since ZS has gone downhill in popularity lately, I've increased the cooking and judging times to three weeks each to try and get as many interested parties as possible.

That alone would make it impossible to correlate with Iron Chef schedule.

I believe that is what they were saying. :smalltongue:

I think homebrew ingredients would be kind of cool, though you'd have to be fairly careful in your choices (and get permission, I imagine). The Demented One has a blanket permissions statement in his signature (and he has a good number of PrCs to pick from, too), so he'd be a good start.

Heliomance

2014-12-04, 12:48 PM

Djinn in Tonic has a number of deliciously flavourful classes that I'd love to see in action.

Kesnit

2014-12-04, 08:32 PM

I was only going to do a few builds tonight and then finish tomorrow. But once I got started, I decided to just get it done.

LOCKDOWN Unit 4456
Originality: 2.5. Ranger was expected (-0.5).
Power: 3.0
Elegance: 1.5. Champion of the Wild must be taken at 1st level (-0.5). You seem to focus on Incarnate Weapon, but take a feat (Shocking Fist) that only works with a Warforged Slam (-0.5). No apparent use for Ranger TWF (-0.5)
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.0
Total: 10

Skinner
Originality: 4.0. Dragonborn and Orc were not expected. (+1.0)
Power: 2.5. You get Improved Unarmed Strike from shaping Mauling Gauntlets, but you have to have them shaped in order to use Scorpian's Grasp. This eats one of your melds/day. (-0.5)
Elegance: 3.5. Justicar and the SI feed each other well. (+0.5).
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5. Focuses more on Justicar than the SI (-0.5).
Total: 12.5

Alana Kurudagnir
Originality: 3.0. Ranger was expected (-0.5). But kudos for using Soulborn, which I did not expect, given the 1/2 meldshaper progression. (+0.5)
Power: 2.0. Shadow Blade comes in very late, so damage will be low through most of the progression (-1.0)
Elegance: 2.5. Ranger dip (-0.5)
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.0.
Total: 10.5
Nice adaptation of "Big Iron."

Vedo D'Nigh
Originality: 3.0
Power: 3.0
Elegance: 2.5. Cleric dip (-0.5).
Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5. Feat selection feeds in well to dispeling abilities. (+0.5)
Total: 12

The Doctor Belthataur
Originality: 4.0. The idea of the grafts is quite amusing. (+1.0)
Power: 1.5. The DC for Spontanious Affliction will be low, given your CHA of 10. (-0.5). Your DEX bonus is +0, so uurhoon does not help you with Caster Level checks (-0.5). Multiattack is situational, since your natural attacks only come from Totemist melds. When you have the right melds, the feat works. Otherwise, it does nothing. (-0.5).
Elegance: 1.5. Druid dip (-0.5). There is a bit of cheese in giving up Wild Empathy (Druid) for Voice of the City, then getting Wild Empathy from Totemist. (-0.5). You do not qualify for Fleshwarper because you do not have Summon Familiar class feature. (-0.5).
Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.0. Your method of qualifying for the SI means you only have the SI if your Urban Companion is within arm's reach. (-1.5). Focus is on grafts, not the SI. (-0.5).
Total: 8.0

Limier du Sorcier
Originality: 4.5. Ranger was expected (-0.5). You got into the SI without taking a meldshaping class. (+2.0)
Power: 2.5. The DC on your Word of Abrogation is going to be poor since you don't have a meldshaper class (other than the SI) to raise it. (-0.5).
Elegance: 3.5. I like how Bloodhound fits with the SI. Everything feeds into a clear, common theme. (+1.0). You cheesed out the "meldshaper 6th level" requirement (-0.5).
Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5. Only took 8 levels of the SI (-0.5).
Total: 13.0