To slay a Dragon...?

[jordan.k93]

So, I have revealed the BBEG of the campaign after a long almost forty week campaign, it ****ed the party up, which was not expected.

However! They survived, they regrouped, they swore revenge. But, without going down an extremely long winding story, their actions changed the Adult Black dragon into LE Fiendish monster, it used to just have a lizardfolk tribe worshiping it, but now, it has set it's gaze upon the world, and it's indirectly the player's fault.

Question 1:
How can a non-specialised build party members slay a dragon?

Question 2:
How can the kingdom's fight back against the dragon?

Magic is typical of a world, every town'll have a wizard, every city has many. Party is level 9, Dragon is CR13 - I'm not expecting the party to go and kill this dragon any time soon, but with enough planning, gathering and prayer, why not right?

[Ohiohi]

Two words: Shivering Touch (http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/shivering-touch--1291/).
Because dragons have 10 DEX, and this spell deals 3D6 DEX damage(avg. 10.5), a wizard can paralyze a dragon with a 3rd level slot.

[Marnath]

Two words: Shivering Touch (http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/shivering-touch--1291/).
Because dragons have 10 DEX, and this spell deals 3D6 DEX damage(avg. 10.5), a wizard can paralyze a dragon with a 3rd level slot.

In order to do that you have to take your D4 hitdice and your pitiful AC and walk up to one of the more powerful melee monsters available. Then pass an 18 spell resistance and hope you don't roll too low on damage.

[heavyfuel]

A kingdom would pretty much have to make use of low-ish level Wizards and Clerics casting Legion's Magic Weapon (http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-eberron--9/magic-weapon-legions--4844/) to get past the DR. The rules for hail of arrows from Heroes of Battle is practically a must.


Two words: Shivering Touch (http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/shivering-touch--1291/).
Because dragons have 10 DEX, and this spell deals 3D6 DEX damage(avg. 10.5), a wizard can paralyze a dragon with a 3rd level slot.

That is, if the Dragon, a creature with more arcane knowledge than you or I, didn't think to use some sort of protection (like Scintillating Scales (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/scintillating-scales--4129/) or any of the tons of ways to prevent ability damage). Suggesting something like this implies that the Dragon is completely oblivious to its weaknesses and wouldn't have thought of ways to eliminate or at the very least mitigate them

[Blackhawk748]

Heres a list of ways to take out a Dragon


Use Dragonrend Earthbind
Once on the ground use Entangle
Use Supress Breath Weapon
Buff Beatstick to the Nine Hells and let him go to town on the Dragon


Now granted to need a Druid or Ranger for the above plan to work (or somebody with UMD) but the general plan should work with any party comp.

1. Nullify Flight
2. Dont let him escape
3. Nullify Breath Weapon
4. Either Debuff him or Buff your beatstick (preferably both) then kill Dragon.

We could give more exact advice if we knew your party comp.

[jordan.k93]

Two words: Shivering Touch (http://dndtools.eu/spells/frostburn--68/shivering-touch--1291/).
Because dragons have 10 DEX, and this spell deals 3D6 DEX damage(avg. 10.5), a wizard can paralyze a dragon with a 3rd level slot.

I banned that spell because with it's usage alongside spectral hand makes it a "I win against all but undead/golem immunities (Or the like)" or have every muppet walk around with some BS contrived method of resisting it.


Heres a list of ways to take out a Dragon


Use Dragonrend Earthbind
Once on the ground use Entangle
Use Supress Breath Weapon
Buff Beatstick to the Nine Hells and let him go to town on the Dragon


Now granted to need a Druid or Ranger for the above plan to work (or somebody with UMD) but the general plan should work with any party comp.

1. Nullify Flight
2. Dont let him escape
3. Nullify Breath Weapon
4. Either Debuff him or Buff your beatstick (preferably both) then kill Dragon.

We could give more exact advice if we knew your party comp.

Unfortunatly this bastard has SR24, and a it's lowest save is +11, Earthbind is also short range.

I appreciate the help though guys!

[(Un)Inspired]

Hit the dragon with Downdraft. Then solid fog. Then just chop him up.

Or hit him with a True Strike True Casting Split Ray of Exhaustion. Then chop him up.

Or Orb of X Celerity Arcane Fusion it where X is whatever element the dragon is weak to.


EDIT: really you should have the dragon kill the party though. Don't dragons deserve a few wins?

[Venger]

In order to do that you have to take your D4 hitdice and your pitiful AC and walk up to one of the more powerful melee monsters available. Then pass an 18 spell resistance and hope you don't roll too low on damage.

use spectral hand like a normal person.

>OP has banhammered it.

ok then.

dragons really aren't all that difficult to kill. if your party can't beat its sr, just use stuff that doesn't allow SR (orbs of x, metamagiced hail of stone, etc) hardly difficult at lvl 9 when you're only fighting adult dragons.

[Blackhawk748]

Unfortunatly this bastard has SR24, and a it's lowest save is +11, Earthbind is also short range.

I appreciate the help though guys!

Hmmmm ok, so we need a way to lower his SR (or get the mage Spell Penetration) I know that there are several ways to do this. I believe a Spectral Hand Bestow Curse would be good here, but we need to jack that save DC up. Im sure if we went digging we could find some spell that does that. My next recommendation is Solid Fog then Vortex of Teeth. Or if your feeling particularly mean Energy Substituted Acid Fog and then Vortex of Teeth until that sucker is roasted.

[Venger]

Hmmmm ok, so we need a way to lower his SR (or get the mage Spell Penetration) I know that there are several ways to do this. I believe a Spectral Hand Bestow Curse would be good here, but we need to jack that save DC up. Im sure if we went digging we could find some spell that does that. My next recommendation is Solid Fog then Vortex of Teeth. Or if your feeling particularly mean Energy Substituted Acid Fog and then Vortex of Teeth until that sucker is roasted.

bestow curse allows SR, so that's not going to help if you're not able to overcome his SR. so does vortex of teeth.

just buff up with assay spell resistance. unlike the terrible "lower spell resistance" it does not allow a fort save since it's a buff

[Blackhawk748]

just buff up with assay spell resistance. unlike the terrible "lower spell resistance" it does not allow a fort save since it's a buff

Do that, then everything i just babbled should work lol

[jordan.k93]

use spectral hand like a normal person.

>OP has banhammered it.

ok then.

dragons really aren't all that difficult to kill. if your party can't beat its sr, just use stuff that doesn't allow SR (orbs of x, metamagiced hail of stone, etc) hardly difficult at lvl 9 when you're only fighting adult dragons.

Hardly Difficult? It's CR11 pre-template with 19HD! Although I suppose power is relative, should mention my party has a monk.

But yes, like someone suggested, Assay Spell Resistance, that'll do nicely and means that wizard is able to effect it with most of his repertoire

[(Un)Inspired]

Hardly Difficult? It's CR11 pre-template with 19HD! Although I suppose power is relative, should mention my party has a monk.

But yes, like someone suggested, Assay Spell Resistance, that'll do nicely and means that wizard is able to effect it with most of his repertoire

Monks are good as D-breath bait. Just sit him out there and when the dragon shows up True Cast Downdraft it.

Your melter squad should cut it apart in a round or two.

[Venger]

Hardly Difficult? It's CR11 pre-template with 19HD! Although I suppose power is relative, should mention my party has a monk.

But yes, like someone suggested, Assay Spell Resistance, that'll do nicely and means that wizard is able to effect it with most of his repertoire

so what? dragons at that level have ~4th lvl sorcerer casting depending on their skin color, which is hardly a threat

>someone

that was me, literally two posts before yours.

anyway, yeah, go ahead and do that and you guys will be fine.

[Tarlek Flamehai]

With proper time and planning anyone can kill anyone else. This of course means that with a little planning the dragon can ambush the party and TPK. He knows about them. More importantly, he knows they know about him. They should definitely be on his to-do list.

[Snowbluff]

Any caster would do. Resist some energy. Learn to fiy. Ready an action for Lahm's Finger Darts, which is Shivering Touch but a Dragon is screwed even more.

[Gwendol]

Adult black dragons are only Large, so legal targets for tanglefoot bags. Even when making the save they are still entangled.

[heavyfuel]

Adult black dragons are only Large, so legal targets for tanglefoot bags. Even when making the save they are still entangled.

Nice catch. Although I preffer using Nets. They're cheaper and achieve the same effect and can (maybe) be reused. Since you're trying to hit the touch AC of dragon, the -4 for non proficiency shouldn't matter.

[Crake]

Personally I'd prefer assay resistance to truecasting. Same bonus of +10 vs SR, but it's a swift action to cast and lasts rounds per level.

[Faily]

Dragons aren't that hard to kill, tbh.

- Energy Resistance against relevant energy-type (Acid in this instance). Mass Resist Energy go go go.
- Blur or Displacement on those going into close-range with it.
- Fly for everybody. Again, Mass Fly is go.
- Hit it with spells that ignore SR. Orbs are very good for this because dragons have hardly any Touch AC to speak of.
- Use spells to lower his Spell Resistance (as mentioned above).
- Casters can proceed to hit him with debuffs like Enervation, Slow, Ray of Clumsiness (the one that lowers Dexterity like Enfeeblement. Not sure if that's the real name... escapes me now).
- And don't forget to hit him with at least one Dispel Magic before stacking the debuffs on him because chances are high he might've used some minor spells (Mage Armor, Shield, Blur, etc) to make it harder for the fighters, or used potions or scrolls for the same effect.

[weckar]

Any caster would do. Resist some energy. Learn to fiy. Ready an action for Lahm's Finger Darts, which is Shivering Touch but a Dragon is screwed even more.
Lahm's Finger Darts, being a corrupt spell, can only be directly used by prepared casters. So not ANY caster would do...

[DarkOne-Rob]

It's a bit of an aside, but -

I find it very tragic how the mighty dragon has fallen from its pinnacle. Watching Smaug and the dwarves/hobit fight in Desolation of Smaug reminded me so much of how it used to feel fighting dragons before 3.0/3.5/PF.

That said, I agree with the poster above who said the dragon would be working on killing the party too - and working with many more years of experience under its belt...Play it smart, IMO. It makes it more meaningful when/if they do defeat it.

[Blackhawk748]

It's a bit of an aside, but -

I find it very tragic how the mighty dragon has fallen from its pinnacle. Watching Smaug and the dwarves/hobit fight in Desolation of Smaug reminded me so much of how it used to feel fighting dragons before 3.0/3.5/PF.

That said, I agree with the poster above who said the dragon would be working on killing the party too - and working with many more years of experience under its belt...Play it smart, IMO. It makes it more meaningful when/if they do defeat it.

Honestly i feel dragons havent fallen that far, for some weird reason most DMs seem to play them dumb, which really doesnt make sense.

As to the Dragon planning to kill the party, ya that. Hes been around for a few centuries and he probably knows most of the basic plans to take him out.

[Snowbluff]

Lahm's Finger Darts, being a corrupt spell, can only be directly used by prepared casters. So not ANY caster would do...

Take the feat if you're not a member of the Prepared Spell Master Race. :smalltongue:

[frost890]

In a red hand of doom campaign the Cleric summoned Air Elemental to grapple the wings. My Paladin used the endless decanter of water on its face. It helped neutralize its breath weapon. Once on the ground we just pelted it to death. But it is up to the players to figure out how to fight the dragon. They swore vengeance on the dragon let them work it out. Part of the game is to do things your own way. The dragon one that fight, but the players know know what to prepare for. few things are as dangerous as an enemy that knows how you fight back. My GM has band me from having the trap skill for a reason...

[Faily]

In a red hand of doom campaign the Cleric summoned Air Elemental to grapple the wings. My Paladin used the endless decanter of water on its face. It helped neutralize its breath weapon. Once on the ground we just pelted it to death. But it is up to the players to figure out how to fight the dragon. They swore vengeance on the dragon let them work it out. Part of the game is to do things your own way. The dragon one that fight, but the players know know what to prepare for. few things are as dangerous as an enemy that knows how you fight back. My GM has band me from having the trap skill for a reason...

Oh yeah, D&D is all about the clever ways to use magic and resources. :smallbiggrin: I've likewise taken part in using Dimension Door to teleport on top of a flying dragon that was trying to get away, to have the party hit him before they fall off/get shaken off... with Acrobatic-rolls to manage to cling on. Or was it Strength rolls? I can't remember the specifics now, but it certainly was fun. :smallamused: