One-round cantrip buffs - how are they best used?

[charlesk]

I'm looking here specifically at Blade Ward and True Strike, and having a bit of a hard time understanding why I would want to use these. They only last one round but they cost me a round to cast which seems like a pretty high cost to pay. That's especially true of Blade Ward... wouldn't I be better off just dodging for two rounds?

Please tell me what I am missing. :)

[Morukai]

I'm looking here specifically at Blade Ward and True Strike, and having a bit of a hard time understanding why I would want to use these. They only last one round but they cost me a round to cast which seems like a pretty high cost to pay. That's especially true of Blade Ward... wouldn't I be better off just dodging for two rounds?

Please tell me what I am missing. :)

You're not missing anything :)

Really, I see those cantrips as situational things, not things with a wide range of usefulness.

How would you use Blade Ward? Maybe to show off your magic powers- think the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail- "see, normally this sword would lop my arm right off. But with this most basic, simple spell [casts Blade Ward], it's just a scratch!"

Or if you *KNOW* you are about to get smacked- HARD- for some serious weapon damage, it could prove useful. If you already know, in advance, it's about to happen. Like I said, situational.

Regarding True Strike, that's the classic movie scene where you HAVE to hit the target- blasting the noose around your friend's neck, hitting that button that closes the gate from a distance because for some reason, you can't get there in time, etc. I see it as "I really need to make this count, and I can sacrifice a round in order to do so." Again, situational, and probably won't come up too often.

[Marcelinari]

The Sorcerer's quicken meta magic allows you to cast a normal spell as a bonus action. If you cast a bonus action spell, you can only cast a cantrip again that turn. Blade ward may be as good as any.

The Eldritch Knight may cast a cantrip and then make an attack as a bonus action. Again, blade ward seems like a reasonable cantrip, if you're worried about some serious hurt.

[Giant2005]

Blade Ward has more uses out of combat than in.
Halving fall damage is an obvious boon but there are all kinds of environmental damage that could be halved too. Basically Blade Ward is useful any time where you are going to be taking damage but have no need of inflicting damage.

[MaxWilson]

I'm looking here specifically at Blade Ward and True Strike, and having a bit of a hard time understanding why I would want to use these. They only last one round but they cost me a round to cast which seems like a pretty high cost to pay. That's especially true of Blade Ward... wouldn't I be better off just dodging for two rounds?

Please tell me what I am missing. :)

True Strike: very situational, but if I were about to blow a 5th level spell slot on Contagion, and I happened to know True Strike, it might be worth casting True Strike the round prior to ensure that I don't miss and waste the Contagion. Or I could just ask an ally to Help me.

Blade Ward: it depends on AC. Any time your enemy has better than a 50% chance to hit you, Blade Ward reduces damage by more than Dodge does. E.g. if I'm a squishy wizard with AC 13 cornered by a Hobgoblin Warlord (+9 to hit), Dodge does essentially nothing for me, but Blade Ward cuts my damage in half. Also of course, if you're an Eldritch Knight, Blade Ward still allows an attack but Dodge does not, so you might resolve ties in favor of Blade Ward.

[charlesk]

Thanks for the replies.

Still not sure I would bother taking either, at least not at first.

Since I am playing a party support character I may ask my DM if he will house-rule allowing Blade Ward to work on others in a short range (say 30'). Then it could potentially be useful (though I probably could still find other things better to do most of the time, it might be good for when one char is facing off against a boss of some sort.)

[Longcat]

The Sorcerer's quicken meta magic allows you to cast a normal spell as a bonus action. If you cast a bonus action spell, you can only cast a cantrip again that turn. Blade ward may be as good as any.

The Eldritch Knight may cast a cantrip and then make an attack as a bonus action. Again, blade ward seems like a reasonable cantrip, if you're worried about some serious hurt.

For some unfathomable reason, they worded True Strike in a way that specifically denies synergy with the Eldritch Knight's class feature.

[D-naras]

I've found a cool trick for Blade Ward. It combos nicely with Armor of Agathys. Cast armor earlier (it lasts an hour), then wade in melee spamming blade ward. You make your armor lasts twice as long for double the hurt (its damage is no joke either. 5 times the spell slot's level.)

[Galen]

If nothing else, they're good in the preparation round before kicking-in-the-door.

[charlesk]

I've found a cool trick for Blade Ward. It combos nicely with Armor of Agathys. Cast armor earlier (it lasts an hour), then wade in melee spamming blade ward. You make your armor lasts twice as long for double the hurt (its damage is no joke either. 5 times the spell slot's level.)

That's clever and would work for this character spell-wise... the thing is that he detests melee, so would probably use it defensively only if he somehow got jumped in the back rank.

[Nargrakhan]

For some unfathomable reason, they worded True Strike in a way that specifically denies synergy with the Eldritch Knight's class feature.

Yea. I get that feeling too... however it works well for the EK if you like to use the -5/+10 feature of Great Weapon Mastery a lot.

[odigity]

Please tell me what I am missing. :)

Thank you so much for bringing this up! I've had the same thoughts.


You're not missing anything :)

Thanks for confirming. Even the smartest person can't see all angles; it's nice to have my own conclusions validated.


The Sorcerer's quicken meta magic allows you to cast a normal spell as a bonus action. If you cast a bonus action spell, you can only cast a cantrip again that turn.

Where does it say that?


The Eldritch Knight may cast a cantrip and then make an attack as a bonus action.

That's a good and relevant point, though you're potentially giving up 3/4 of your attacks that round for that cantrip. As has been said, very situational.


Halving fall damage is an obvious boon but there are all kinds of environmental damage that could be halved too. Basically Blade Ward is useful any time where you are going to be taking damage but have no need of inflicting damage.

That's clever, but incorrect. The RAW specifically says Blade Ward applies to B/P/S dmg from weapon attacks.


if I'm a squishy wizard with AC 13 cornered by a Hobgoblin Warlord (+9 to hit), Dodge does essentially nothing for me, but Blade Ward cuts my damage in half.

This sets off my M:TG strategy training alarm bells. You're spending an entire round reducing damage instead of progressing towards a solution to the problem. Surely a cornered wizard has a better response than a one round half-damage cantrip?


I've found a cool trick for Blade Ward. It combos nicely with Armor of Agathys. Cast armor earlier (it lasts an hour), then wade in melee spamming blade ward. You make your armor lasts twice as long for double the hurt (its damage is no joke either. 5 times the spell slot's level.)

If you're spamming blade ward, you're not doing anything else. Unless your entire character concept is based on running around melee tempting foes to attack you and miss. I guess you could dip 2 lvls of Rogue for Cunning Action (Dodge) and 3 lvls for Battle Master Fighter to get Riposte, but that's truely some poor optimization. :)

Now, combining Armor of Agathys with damage reduction is quite clever; I hadn't thought of that. It makes me wonder what all the possible sources of melee damage reduction are. (Agathys specifies it works only vs melee attacks.)

---

My own thoughts:

It seems there are four cantrip buffs:

Blade Ward
Guidance
Resistance
True Strike


And all are very minor. Probably on purpose because they're at-will.

[Galen]

This sets off my M:TG strategy training alarm bells. You're spending an entire round reducing damage instead of progressing towards a solution to the problem. Surely a cornered wizard has a better response than a one round half-damage cantrip?
Not sure MtG analogy applies here. The Wizard is not alone, he has other party members. While the enemy is busy beating down the wizard for half-damage, rest of the party is beating down the enemy for full damage. I definitely can see the value of this in the right circumstances. Of course if our hypothetical cornered wizard is all alone, spamming Blade Ward is a losing proposition.

[Nargrakhan]

You're spending an entire round reducing damage instead of progressing towards a solution to the problem. Surely a cornered wizard has a better response than a one round half-damage cantrip?

I think that is the response... so long as it results in the party fighter/rogue to smack that Hobgoblin Warlord from behind. :smallwink:

lol... ninja'ed... geniuses think alike. :smallcool:

[Likantropos]

I wouldn't say Guidance provides a minor bonus. d4 under bounded accuracy is fairly good, and it applies to almost every skill check you make (because at-will). It goes from doubling your bonus on lower levels to making you bard-level competent in any skill later on. That's pretty cool in my book.

[Beacon of Chaos]

Where does it say that?
Page 202, under Casting Time.


That's clever, but incorrect. The RAW specifically says Blade Ward applies to B/P/S dmg from weapon attacks.
With some DMs you could argue that some traps use weapon attacks. So, if you know there's an arrow trap ahead and you don't have a rogue, you could use blade ward for protection.

[odigity]

Page 202, under Casting Time.

Jesus fracking Christ. That's so incredibly relevant to an understand of the uses of the Sorceror's Quicken Spell feature, I cannot believe they buried it on page 202 and didn't even *reference* it in the Sorceror class. Can you imagine a group only discovering the error half-way to level 20?

[MaxWilson]

This sets off my M:TG strategy training alarm bells. You're spending an entire round reducing damage instead of progressing towards a solution to the problem. Surely a cornered wizard has a better response than a one round half-damage cantrip?

Perhaps. Perhaps not. I was answering a question about Blade Ward vs. Dodge, not a full optimization problem, so let's give two situations where the cornered wizard would be just fine with Blade Ward.

1.) Reaction attack: you're an Enchanter, and you can use your reaction to "attack" by making the Hobgoblin Warlord attack someone else (within his reach). Blade Ward provides insurance in case that plan fails.
2.) Efficiency: you've got some temp HP from Inspiring Leader and other party members who can take down the Hobgoblin Warlord, but haven't yet. Instead of spending a spell slot casting Dimension Door (which simply frees him to attack someone else), why not just Blade Ward and tank the damage, and get it back on the next short rest? You come out one 4th level spell ahead. Same logic applies if you have a good healing source like Grim Harvest instead of Blade Ward.

I don't understand the point of view which says that "every fight must be one-on-one and you must never assume that other PCs will get involved." And no, I'm not assuming that other PCs will always be around to help--scenario #2 is if other PCs will kill him, then cast Blade Ward instead of Dimension Door.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

pg 202 isn't buried, it's the basic rules for using magic and casting spells... not reading that is like not reading the combat section ;p

you wouldn't know how concentration works, for example.

[odigity]

pg 202 isn't buried, it's the basic rules for using magic and casting spells... not reading that is like not reading the combat section ;p

you wouldn't know how concentration works, for example.

I've read it twice, but my squishy flesh head-drive doesn't store and retrieve information with perfectly fidelity.

[The_Hansard]

I could see true strike being useful for a rogue to gain advantage (and thus a sneak attack) on a creature. The only issue is that this advantage is the next turn so you've blown 1 round/turn in casting it. Therefore, this would make it very situational and probably (IMHO) only useful when the enemy is at dash distance (and likely staying there). You would move cast True Strike and then next turn move again and have advantage on the enemy. Although this assumes that doing 1 round of extra sneak attack damage is better than doing 1 round of ranged damage and 1 round of normal attack damage.

But then again I'm fairly new at this and I could be completely wrong

[D-naras]

...
If you're spamming blade ward, you're not doing anything else. Unless your entire character concept is based on running around melee tempting foes to attack you and miss. I guess you could dip 2 lvls of Rogue for Cunning Action (Dodge) and 3 lvls for Battle Master Fighter to get Riposte, but that's truely some poor optimization. :)

Now, combining Armor of Agathys with damage reduction is quite clever; I hadn't thought of that. It makes me wonder what all the possible sources of melee damage reduction are. (Agathys specifies it works only vs melee attacks.)
...

And all are very minor. Probably on purpose because they're at-will.

Yeah I admit it's a real edge case. However if you are a warlock in 3 person party comprised of yourself, a sword-and-board fighter (with the heavy weapon feat for some reason...) and an oath of the ancients paladin, you will be in melee a lot. I would rate it with a 6 out 10 myself. Cute and can be effective in edge cases.

[Inevitability]

I could see true strike being useful for a rogue to gain advantage (and thus a sneak attack) on a creature. The only issue is that this advantage is the next turn so you've blown 1 round/turn in casting it.

Hm... A 1st-level rogue (having picked up TS through a variant human's feat) would deal, say 1d8+3 damage/round normally. With TS, this becomes 1d8+1d6+3 damage in 2 rounds. Simply attacking twice would be better.

Rogues do not gain extra attacks, however. At 20th level, you'd be dealing 1d8+5 damage (and lets add 1d6 from an off-hand attack) per round. A TS spell could improve this to 1d8+11d6+5 over the course of two rounds. Clearly TS is a nice thing to have for high-level rogues.

[Sartharina]

Wizard casts a battle-winning spell in the opening round.
Then he spams Blade Wars so he can survive the battle while his allies mop up.

He casts True Strike so he can hit next round with a powerful spell that's wasted on a miss.

[MaxWilson]

Wizard casts a battle-winning spell in the opening round.
Then he spams Blade Wars so he can survive the battle while his allies mop up.

He casts True Strike so he can hit next round with a powerful spell that's wasted on a miss.

For example, Contagion.

[Vogonjeltz]

With some DMs you could argue that some traps use weapon attacks. So, if you know there's an arrow trap ahead and you don't have a rogue, you could use blade ward for protection.

Not much a trap if you know about it before it triggers, is it?

[Beacon of Chaos]

Not much a trap if you know about it before it triggers, is it?
*shrug* I'm envisioning a scenario where the party has been hit by an arrow trap already in the dungeon and is being cautious. Or maybe it's a repeating trap and they're trying to get past it.

[Sartharina]

Or it's a place where "Okay, the designers would have to be stupid to NOT put a trap here!"

[Galen]

Or it's a place where "Okay, the designers would have to be stupid to NOT put a trap here!"
"I open the door"
"Behind the door, there's a 50' corridor, completely featureless, and at the other end, another door."
"Uhm, guys ..."

[MaxWilson]

"I open the door"
"Behind the door, there's a 50' corridor, completely featureless, and at the other end, another door."
"Uhm, guys ..."

That is why you should take prisoners. Or at least raise defeated foes as zombies. :)

[Ashrym]

Blade ward can be used in conjunction with war magic on a eldritch knight or battle magic on a valor bard. Hasted they would each still have 2 attacks plus the benefits of blade ward. I'm a not a fan of true strike. Sorcerers might quicken a spell and use the action for blade ward as well.

The main issue I have with blade ward is that dodge uses the same action and may as well be used.

[Vogonjeltz]

"I open the door"
"Behind the door, there's a 50' corridor, completely featureless, and at the other end, another door."
"Uhm, guys ..."

Is this a zoo of death we're talking about?

[jkat718]

"I open the door"
"Behind the door, there's a 50' corridor, completely featureless, and at the other end, another door."
"Uhm, guys ..."

""I'm going to need 1 Ten-Foot Pole and 1 under-paid NPC, stat."

...

*BOOM*

"Okay, don't step on that tile. Minion Numero Dos, you're up!"

And people said that there wasn't anything to spend money on in this edition.

[Inevitability]

That is why you should take prisoners. Or at least raise defeated foes as zombies. :)

Parties with Good characters may be interested to know chickens only cost 2 CP in this edition.

Wait. Chickens breaking the game? Ah, sweet 3.5 memories...

[MaxWilson]

Parties with Good characters may be interested to know chickens only cost 2 CP in this edition.

Wait. Chickens breaking the game? Ah, sweet 3.5 memories...

I know, chickens are awesome. Necromancers love them. Delicious little HP batteries that you can eat after life-draining.