Bleach D20

[flameless]

where do i download the newest version?:smallbiggrin:

[Behold_the_Void]

First post.

[MageSparrowhawk]

I just finished reading the entire thread...again (I found it a while ago, and just found it again...)
just had a little 2cp (or more..this is getting long >.> ) to toss in for the 4Ed thinking....(referencing FelixZ's idea)

When looking at all the possibilities that can be done with awakened humans and Shinigami (Quincy not so much, they only really could work as Strikers...though maybe controllers) they could fall under all four categories of class...So really what may be happening is...*counts*...nine spirit based classes. This obviously poses a problem. Maybe an easier way would be to make "spirit attuned" classes that didn't necessarily have to be Shinigami, or awakened humans. It would basically be the same 2 (or 3) 'super builds' for each category, with more fine tuned builds branching off.

Warrior: either becomes Ichigo/Renji-like, or else Chad-like (defender role)
Precise: Quincy, Kido-focused Shinigami or characters like Gin...and Orihime probably took this class's training feat... (striker role)
Healer: Squad four shinigami, as well as Orihime-ish...probably (she's kind of like a DM imposed plot device...) (leader...though this could be broader...not sure)
Controler..thingy: Something like Beyakuya(sp?) or even Aizen to some extent. Also maybe an awakened human...but I'm unaware of characters to reference in this case... (controler role...couldn't come up with a name)

Also, for better and worse, Hollows are just monsters now...with Arrancar as being just another type. no playing them now....maybe.../shrug

Oops...that went on way longer than I was intending...sorry..though, I hope I've sparked some ideas...

[Xuincherguixe]

Well, one thing. Isn't this project kind of being phased out?

[Behold_the_Void]

Well, one thing. Isn't this project kind of being phased out?

It is, but I'll likely pick it back up again for 4e. If people have questions though I'll still answer them.

[Killercloud]

It is, but I'll likely pick it back up again for 4e. If people have questions though I'll still answer them.

Well is there any Evolved Augment abilities? or any Matterializer abilities around? my gaming group is dying for them and I personally don't know much about the way the mechanics work to mess with them. I would love to see them if there are.

Edit: I also wanted to add that of the thirteen different Bleach D20s my group has tried we enjoyed this one the most and were saddened by its delay for the 4th DnD edition. I work on my own system and I enjoyed this verson far more than my own. I do hope to see more.

Edit2: After taking a look I noticed this has been asked for a lot, however I could use anything that's finished, if that's possible. I mean if your going to wait til fourth might as well post what you have yeah? I hope I am not coming off as rude because I feel like a bit of a fan looking for the extra ending to a good book.

[Behold_the_Void]

Unfortunately I never quite figured out how I wanted the Materializer to work, so there aren't any more abilities. The Augment, however, can make use of most ability-boosting zanpakutou abilities.

[Killercloud]

Ah, cool. Does that mean Shikai or Bankai abilities?

[Behold_the_Void]

Augment Evolved is basically bankai, so it can make use of most of the bankai abilities.

[Killercloud]

Also Personally The Materializer is sort of like an Alter User from Scryed, they create object to assist them and sometimes heal or protect. mostly it seems that in bleach the healing and protecting powers of Orihime are near unique and are probably just the healing type Zanbakutou abilities and then maybe a sheilding type.

Note: as I said I am making my own d20 system for kicks and would love to help with this one, into fourth edition. I like 3.5 for this merely for all the support it currently has although 4th edition brings new options as well, so I guess the point is, if you want some help, look no further. I am active and willing to help (seeing as I do little else but write and Game.)

[Dante & Vergil]

I've seen some of 4th ed and don't do bleach like it.

[FelixZ]

Agreed. For the love of god, don't switch bleach to 4e.

[Xuincherguixe]

It's kind of his choice you know.

[Dante & Vergil]

In my previous post, I didn't have much time to type out entirely what I wanted to say, mainly because I was on a public computer and my alotted time had only seconds left on it. What I was trying to say was don't do the Bleach system entirely like it. I've seen what 4th edition is capable of, and that comes nothing close to what we've seen in Bleach. I will admit, some, if not most, of the mechanics that 4th edition uses are perfect for Bleach, but the power level and what very little one can do with it, that should not be taken into account for your rendition of Bleach.
A couple of things if you use 4th edition:
1. Use appropriate damage ratios to hit point ratios 'cause from what I've seen, it will take an eternity 'cause the players/monsters do crap damage to each other and in Bleach, we can all agree that fights don't ever last more than a couple of minutes, at most. Hell, use 3.0/3.5's hit dice if needs be. Even epic levels can't take out anything in one round without using action points. And even coupe de grace'ing monsters while they're tied down will take many more rounds than there should be.
2. Do not restrict the people to what 4th edition dictates. The mechanics that they have don't cover Bleach's entire spectrum of what can be done. Come up with your own mechanics, or intigrate back some old ones if possible.
3. BE CREATIVE!!!! I must be very stressful of this because 4th edition lacks a lot of creativity. 4th edition uses very little in the way of imagination for what players can do. Do a vast spectrum of different abilities that are flavorful, that get the job done (hopefuly quickly), and most importantly, that are cool and fun to use.
Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho would do nice damage, but to Hollows/Arrancar who's Hit Points are too high to even notice, Aizen's shikai wouldn't even exist because of what little can be done, same with Tosen's bankai and don't get me started with Kenpachi. And Soi Fon's shikai would be massacred by Wizards of the Coast because save-or-dies like that are forever gone. (There are two, the Bodak's gaze attack but their target has to be damaged first, and one of Orcus's attacks that I can't remember off the top of my head. That is it!)
When you get a look at it, you will see mechanics that will work perfectly for Bleach, but keep what I said somewhat in mind when your building Bleach d20 with 4th edition.

[Dante & Vergil]

...So since 4th edition is out to the public, do you guys think that it will work for Bleach D20?

[Glitch Override]

I'm still waiting for my books to arrive, thus i don't know as of yet whether or not 4th edition is good for Bleach D20.

[Spirit Arrow]

It can with some work. I can do a quincy write up and an Awakened Human write up pretty quick, though Shinigami would be a longer, harder and more intensive. Of course the 3.5 was just as hard I assume.

Here is a quick class by role work up of what I see coming:
Controller: Kido Shinigami, Bount
Defender: Awakened-Augment, Warrior Shingami
Striker: Quincy, Hollow
Leader: Awakened-(Orihime type), Elite Shinigami
-Notes:
-All Shinigami can have as an Paragon Path Vizard.
-Hollows can have Arrancar as a Paragon Path.
-Other Classes?

So, in the immortal words of some dude, "Let's do this thing!"

[Dante & Vergil]

The striker+other class desciptor stuff I'll leave to you guys. The stuff above will probably be good to use.
Soul Reaper should be one class with paragon paths of the original 3 Soul Reaper Classes (i.e. the Warrior Soul Reaper, the Expert Soul Reaper, and the Spellcaster Soul Reaper). Bankai can be obtained at Epic levels (probably paragon levels but lets start with this), and what we could do with this system is allow players to advance past level 30 if they're a Vizard or Arrancar (Both would probably have to be templates, but if one of you guys can come up with something better, then that would be a lot better than using templates and it would be much appreciated). Shikai would be obtained at paragon levels (or in the first 10 levels if Bankai is going to be in the paragon levels). I think of something for other classes and such... maybe.:smalltongue:

[Behold_the_Void]

Bankai will be paragon tier, shikai will be heroic tier. There are five power sources - Zanpakutou, Zanjutsu (which is more fightery swordplay than actual zanpakutou powers), Hakuda, Hihio, and Kidou.

Epic Tier will be for Vizard, Vasto Lorde, and the like. I've been kind of plotting how it will work, and I am likely going to make a system to further customize classes. More to come... maybe soon? I've been busy and working a lot so I haven't had a chance to put things down on paper. I will likely make a new thread for it when I have some material ready.

[Contran]

Question about the greater summon zanpakutou ability.

Does the 2nd last line also include the form's special qualities/traits, or does it just refer to things such as a creature's ability to trip or use spell-like abilities?

[Senir]

Any news, guys?

[Colt]

Has anyone updated the PDF version of the rules?

[Dante & Vergil]

Epic Tier will be for Vizard, Vasto Lorde, and the like. I've been kind of plotting how it will work, and I am likely going to make a system to further customize classes. More to come... maybe soon? I've been busy and working a lot so I haven't had a chance to put things down on paper. I will likely make a new thread for it when I have some material ready.

I think there should be a Captain progression as well.


Bankai will be paragon tier, shikai will be heroic tier. There are five power sources - Zanpakutou, Zanjutsu (which is more fightery swordplay than actual zanpakutou powers), Hakuda, Hihio, and Kidou.

Hihio? Is that what it's called? Shunpo is what I thought it was called.

[Byakko]

I still believe SWSE's Jedi are a perfect start for Shinigami. Jedi and Shinigami aren't that different after all. Instead of the Forcee shinigami have kido, but other then that they are very much alike.

[FelixZ]

Hihio? Is that what it's called? Shunpo is what I thought it was called.

Hi- Blase
Hio- wicked person

[draxredd]

Hi all

I've no longer enough time to work on this alternative bleach d20 project of mine. So if anyone wants to pilfer anything useful from it, please help yourselves !

<<<LINK DELETED>>>

(sorry for the dead link, my ISP isn't very forgiving on bandwidth usage. this should work better, see below for updated download locations)

[Shinobi_Guyver]

draxredd, that link is dead, I keep getting an error message when I click it, and an html file when I download it.

Also, has anyone else noticed how well Shinigami can be made from Jedi in the Star Wars Saga Edition manual? I know Byakko has.

Force Powers = Kido
Lightsabers = Zanpakuto
Talent tree = Shinigami specializations/squad designations

When I have a little time, I'll see what I can construct and post it here.

[draxredd]

Damn, Orange is such a pain, sometimes... Anyway, here it is.

Full YATA Bleach archive 22/08/08 (Skydrive) (http://cid-28e95dde7ca2cec8.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Bleach)

Full YATA Bleach archive 22/08/08 (Megaupload) (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5W8EIY3D)

[Shinobi_Guyver]

Damn, Orange is such a pain, sometimes... Anyway, here it is.

Full YATA Bleach archive 22/08/08 (Skydrive) (http://cid-28e95dde7ca2cec8.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Bleach/Bleach.zip)

Full YATA Bleach archive 22/08/08 (Megaupload) (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5W8EIY3D)

Thanks. I'm sure this'll help! ^__^

EDIT: Question. Should it be closer to 3E or 4E? Using SW:SE Jedi as a base is good, but as a whole, which system should it be closer to?

[Byakko]

Thanks. I'm sure this'll help! ^__^

EDIT: Question. Should it be closer to 3E or 4E? Using SW:SE Jedi as a base is good, but as a whole, which system should it be closer to?



I think SWSE is the best in-betwen of 3E and 4E. Classes still works much like 3E but we have talents and stuff like 4E (sorry I don't know if other systmes works like this IE D20 Modern) and almost anything already settled there for us. in SE you can have any class use limited force powers and that have it covered for people like Orihime or Chad. Uryuu on the other hand could simply have a prc class for quincy, after all is seems the basics of sensing and manipulating reiatsu as well as shumpo are in common so all that's left is their ability to obliterate hollows instead of cleansen them like shinigami do. The other differencies are cosmetics or applicational (reiatsu manipulation and stuff for the quincy) while this is the only real difference betwen shinigami and quincy (beside one is a ghost and ther other is not =P)

[Shinobi_Guyver]

I think SWSE is the best in-betwen of 3E and 4E. Classes still works much like 3E but we have talents and stuff like 4E (sorry I don't know if other systmes works like this IE D20 Modern) and almost anything already settled there for us. in SE you can have any class use limited force powers and that have it covered for people like Orihime or Chad. Uryuu on the other hand could simply have a prc class for quincy, after all is seems the basics of sensing and manipulating reiatsu as well as shumpo are in common so all that's left is their ability to obliterate hollows instead of cleansen them like shinigami do. The other differencies are cosmetics or applicational (reiatsu manipulation and stuff for the quincy) while this is the only real difference betwen shinigami and quincy (beside one is a ghost and ther other is not =P)

You have a good point.

After talking with a few friends elsewhere, and looking around on ENWorld, I now have something in the works. Hopefully it shouldn't take too long to finish. I will be using the YATA Bleach D20 download as a reference, since they've managed to get some things worked out, it'll get things done a bit faster.


EDIT: There is one thing I'm curious about, though... What does "YATA" stand for? ._.

[draxredd]

is one thing I'm curious about, though... What does "YATA" stand for? ._.

"Yet Another Take At" Bleach d20, it's also a japanese victory shout, i believe.

[Shinobi_Guyver]

"Yet Another Take At" Bleach d20, it's also a japanese victory shout, i believe.

Ah, okay.

I do have some things in the works, so everyone knows.

The main manuals I'm using for reference are the PHB (3.5E, 4E), D20 Modern, Star Wars Saga Edition, and the "YATA Bleach D20."

There's definitely some good stuff in YATA, but it feels more "snatch and grab what you need from random books" than well planned supplement.

Perhaps in the next few days I will be able to post a preview for everyone.... Time will tell.



Also, for those interested, would y'all check out my Guyver conversion for 4E D&D? If it's liked, I may rewrite my 3E conversion and post it as well.

Here's the link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89259

[draxredd]

do you plan on using the fan service feats ? if so i've added a few, most notably Midget (toshirou, rukia, yachiru, hiyori) and Slink (ukitake, hanataro).

i'll post them here if need be.

[Bandededed]

do you plan on using the fan service feats ? if so i've added a few, most notably Midget (toshirou, rukia, yachiru, hiyori) and Slink (ukitake, hanataro).

i'll post them here if need be.

Midget? Toshirou is not an adult, and they are all japanese...

[SamTech1]

Zanpakutou Types: Each zanpakutou has two types which governs its abilities. Here are the types that will be used as themes for creating ability sets for people to use when constructing their zanpakutou.

Poison: Zanpakutou of the poison type are insidious and deadly. They use various poisons to debilitate and destroy their targets. List Complete
Examples: Ashisogi Jizou/Konjiki Ashisogi Jizou, Kurotsuchi Mayuri’s zanpakutou. Suzumebachi, Soi Fon’s zanpakutou
Blood: Blood-based Zanpakutou use the vitality of their wielder to unleash devastating attacks, or drains the vitality of others to restore the wielder or her allies. List Complete
Examples: Benhime, Urahara Kisuke’s zanpakutou. Fujikajaku, Ayasegawa Yumichika’s zanpakutou.
Weapon: Favored amongst the 11th Squad, Weapon-based zanpakutou are zanpakutou whose shikai are directly related to an improved combat function. They tend not to use many extraordinary skills, being based instead around pure combat. List Complete
Examples: Zangetsu/Tensa Zangetsu, Kurosaki Ichigo’s zanpakutou. Zabimaru/Hihou Zabimaru, Abarai Renji’s zanpakutou. Hōzukimaru/Ryūmon Hōzukimaru, Madarame Ikkaku’s zanpakutou. Shinsou, Ichimaru Gin’s zanpakutou. Wabisuke, Kira Izuru’s zanpakutou. Gonryōmaru, Sasakibe Chōjirō zanpakutou. List Complete.
Projectile: Projectile zanpakutou do not make use of the blade, but instead change their shape and utilize airborne attacks. List Complete
Examples: Haineko, Rangiku Matsumoto’s zanpakutou. Senbonzakura/Senbonzakura Kageyoshi, Kuchiki Byakuya’s zanpakutou. Tsunzaki Garasu, Ikkanzaka Jiroubo’s zanpaktou.
Ice: These zanpakutou attack with biting cold and frost, freezing their foes. List Complete
Examples: Hyorinmaru/Dai Guren Hyorinmaru, Hitsugaya Toushiro’s zanpakutou. Sode no Shirayuki, Kuchiki Rukia’s zanpakutou. Itegumo, Kotetsu Isane’s zanpakutou.
Water: These zanpakutou make use of cunning illusions and mirages to confuse their opponents, or unleash the wrath of the untamed waves in battle. List Complete.
Examples: Sougyo no Kotowari, Ukitake Juushiro’s zanpakutou. Kyouka Suigetsu, Aizen Sousuke’s zanpakutou. Nejibana, Shiba Kaien’s zanpakutou.
Healing: These zanpakutou, favored by the 4th division, specialize in healing others instead of harming them. List Complete
Examples: Minazuki, Unohana Retsu’s zanpakutou. Hisagomaru, Yamada Hanatarou's zanpakutou.
Fire: These zanpakutou employ the destructive power of flame to devastate their opponents. List Complete
Examples: Ryujin Jakka, Yamamoto Genryuusai Shigekuni’s zanpakutou
Lightning: These zanpakutou employ lightning to strike down their foes. List Complete
Examples: Sougyo no Kotowari, Ukitake Juushiro’s zanpakutou.
Wind: These zanpakutou make use of raging winds to blow their foes away. List Complete
Examples: Mirokumaru, Senna's zanpakutou. Katen Kyōkotsu, Kyouraku Shunsui's zanpakutou.
Kidou: Kidou-based zanpakutou augment the kidou attacks of their wielder. List Complete
Examples: Tobiume, Hinamori Momo’s zanpakutou. Fujikajaku, Ayasegawa Yumichika’s zanpakutou.
Earth/Acid: Earth-based zanpakutou can make use of earth-shattering attacks or use acid to scald their foes. List Complete
Examples: Gegetsuburi, Ōmaeda Marechiyo's zanpakutou.
Sonic: Sonic-based zanpakutou use sound to disrupt and defeat their opponents. List Complete
Examples: Suzumushi/Suzumushi Tsuishiki – Enma Kourogi, Tousen Kaname’s zanpakutou.
Light: Light-based zanpakutou can illuminate areas with their brilliance and channel and bend it to the wielder's desire. List Complete
Examples: Nijigasumi, Ichinose Maki's zanpakutou
Darkness: Darkness-based zanpakutou can rob foes of their sight and cloud their senses. List Complete
Examples: Suzumushi Tsuishiki – Enma Kourogi, Tousen Kaname’s zanpakutou.
Summoning: Summoning zanpakutou call forth huge beasts that can be manipulated by the zanpakutou wielder's will. List Complete
Examples: Minazuki, Unohana Retsu’s zanpakutou. Hyorinmaru, Hitsugaya Toushiro’s zanpakutou. Tengen/Kokujou Tengen Myou-oh, Komamura Saijin’s zanpakutou. Konjiki Ashisogi Jizou, Kurotsuchi Mayuri’s zanpakutou.

Zanpakutou Feats:

Constant Release [Zanpakutou]

Your zanpakutou cannot or will not be sealed, keeping it in a state of constant release.

Prerequisites: Shikai, can only be taken immediately when Shikai is achieved.

Benefit: Your zanpakutou can never be sealed. Its Shikai form becomes its normal state.

Normal: You may only release your shikai for a number of minutes equal to your character level.

Quick Release [Zanpakutou]

You may release your shikai swiftly, without calling out its name.

Prerequisites: Bankai

Benefit: You may release your Zanpakutou's shikai as a swift action.

Normal: It requires a move action to release your zanpakutou's shikai.

Multiple Type [Zanpakutou]

Your zanpakutou has an additional weapon type, and its abilities can be drawn from either of the available types.

Prerequisites: None

Benefit: You gain one extra type when selecting Shikai and Bankai abilities for your zanpakutou. If you take this feat, you cannot take the Specialized Zanpakutou feat.

Normal: Zanpakutou two inherent types in which you may select abilities from.

Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Expanded Shikai [Zanpakutou]

Your zanpakutou’s abilities increase.

Prerequisite: Shikai

Benefit: Gain an additional Shikai ability.

Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Expanded Bankai [Zanpakutou]

Your zanpakutou’s abilities increase.

Prerequisite: Bankai

Benefit: Gain an additional Bankai ability.

Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Twin Zanpakutou Mastery [Zanpakutou]

Your zanpakutou has independent blades, and you make use of them independently.

Prerequisite: Weapon-type Change form ability for a double-weapon zanpakutou or twin zanpakutou.

Benefit: When gaining enhancements for zanpakutou with a zanpakutou ability, you may gain two abilities, one that applies to each seperate blade. This does not apply to abilities that give effects such as range or reach, armor, or any other such effects (for example, you can give one weapon the ice and one weapon the fire attribute, or give one weapon collision and one weapon keen, but you couldn't give one reach and the other the armor quality).

Normal: Your zanpakutou abilities apply for both weapons without any variance between the two.

Specialized Zanpakutou [Zanpakutou]

Your zanpakutou has but one type, but that focused type has far more potency.

Prerequisite: Must be taken no later than 5th level, when Shikai is attained.

Benefit: Your zanpakutou has only one type, but you gain three extra zanpakutou abilities upon attaining Shikai. If you take this feat, you cannot take the Multiple Type feat.

Normal: Your zanpakutou has two types and gains one ability when Shikai is attained.

Shunpo Spring Attack [Shunpo]

You may employ Shunpo when making a Spring Attack.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Base Attack Bonus +6

Benefit: When making a Spring Attack, you may use Shunpo instead of your regular movement speed while making it. Spring Attacks made in this manner do not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Normal: You may only Spring Attack with your normal movement speed, and moving away provokes an attack of opportunity.

Increased Shunpo [Shunpo]

Your Shunpo range increases.

Prerequisites: Shunpo 20 feet

Benefit: Increase your Shunpo by one step (if you have 20 Shunpo, increase it to 60, if you have 60, increase it to 120, and so on). This feat is treated as a level increase for purposes of further shunpo progression (Taking this feat is equivalent to gaining two extra levels for purposes of Shunpo). This feat can be taken multiple times, its effects stack.

but ichigo had the ablitity to get his sword at the first show

[Shinobi_Guyver]

I'm kinda on the fence about the fan-service feats. While funny, I personally feel that they don't work all that well and are ultimately pointless. In 3E and D20 Modern, you have a very limited number of feats, generally totaling between 7-9 (not counting bonus feats from class features). In 4E, you have 18 feats total, just about one every other level. For a 4E version, I would keep the fan service feats definitely, but in 3E they might get cut out completely.

Like I said, I am using YATA Bleach D20 as a reference. I'm not refining it to make it easier to read/use.

What I am attempting to do, though, is create a completely new adaptation of Bleach for D20. When finished, it will work best for D20 Modern or 3rd Edition, unless enough people want it to be done like 4th Edition.

I do not remember seeing that list of Zanpakuto types in YATA. Are they from another attempt at Bleach D20? If so, is it available in .doc/.pdf format for download and can someone send me a link?

Also, true hollows will be monsters only. Hollow-based PCs will be more like Sado/Chad from the series, a human with hollow-like powers.

Inoue Orihime-like characters may or may not exist. To me, Orihime is an exception to already established abilities and powers (despite the fact a character has said her powers are similar to his).

[draxredd]

I do not remember seeing that list of Zanpakuto types in YATA. Are they from another attempt at Bleach D20? If so, is it available in .doc/.pdf format for download and can someone send me a link?

First post in this thread, maybe ?

[Shinobi_Guyver]

First post in this thread, maybe ?

<.<

So you mean I have to copy/paste it myself?

This is unheard of! This is the Internet! Where everything is available for download because someone else did it first!

Just kidding....

I normally skip to the last couple of pages in very long threads to get the basic idea of what's going on with no details. :mitd:

Anywho.... back to work on the Quincy characters

Crap. I actually said something specific and game-related instead of my usual vague answer that leaves everyone waiting.

/)_(\

[FelixZ]

Inoue Orihime-like characters may or may not exist. To me, Orihime is an exception to already established abilities and powers (despite the fact a character has said her powers are similar to his).


I think it has been said by Aizen, in the manga, that Orihime's power is, infact, the ability to reject time itself. Healing? Reverse someone back to the way they were before they got hit through time. Shield? Create a 'time-null' barrier infront of her. Attacking? Speeds up the time of the struck area. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Some nitpicks in the weapons area. For one, you misspelled wakizashi. For another, a sai is a blunt weapon not a piercing one. The sai generaly had a blunt tip and was used to catch a foe's sword and potentialy break/disarm it.

[draxredd]

Anywho.... back to work on the Quincy characters

After rejecting inoue-like characters, you're setting specific rules for quincy ? i mean, both of them ?

[Shinobi_Guyver]

LOL

Sounds like there's a desire for Orihime-type characters.

I was thinking against it because she's an oddball as far as powers go. Hachigen (one of the Vizard) said that her power with shields is "similar" to his, not exactly like them. Add in the fact that she can reject reality and rewrite it to suit her (healing is a reversal of time), and you get a very unique power. She may not have even been able to manifest her abilities without the hairpins her brother gave her and desire to protect.

Orihime-type PCs would only have powers relating to defense and healing, which are important, except that many people would like some decent combat ability to go with it. The offensive ability for Orihime-type characters would be comparable to 3E wizards using a greatsword. It's possible, just difficult to effectively pull-off.

The reason behind rules for Quincy characters is because they were an entire group of people (making it easier to justify a Quincy PC), not one person.

EDIT: In other attempts at Bleach D20, there have been specific rules for Quincy PCs and not Orihime-type PCs. Something to think about... while I get back to work.

[draxredd]

The reason behind rules for Quincy characters is because they were an entire group of people (making it easier to justify a Quincy PC), not one person.

Anyone want some Bountos for dessert ?

[Shinobi_Guyver]

Anyone want some Bountos for dessert ?

That could be done, if campaigns take place before the Bounts arc or an alternate storyline.

Don't forget, at the end of the arc, all the Bounts were destroyed.

Ability-wise, they are very close to Summoners, so there won't be much trouble creating them.

[draxredd]

Bountos are not extinct. Go Koga was saved from Toshiro's ice by Yioruchi, and was left with Ran Tao in her hideout.

[Shinobi_Guyver]

Bountos are not extinct. Go Koga was saved from Toshiro's ice by Yioruchi, and was left with Ran Tao in her hideout.

Forgot that short scene, oh well.

I'll make sure to add them. Even if it was filler, it was pretty good.

[Behold_the_Void]

If I may, if you intend to use the Yata system for your base, you may wish to move the thread there. This one is still going to be used for my 4e Revision of my initial system, so you might want to use the other thread for planning.

[FelixZ]

Forgot that short scene, oh well.

I'll make sure to add them. Even if it was filler, it was pretty good.


The existance of Bounts aren't even canon.:smallmad:

[Shinobi_Guyver]

If I may, if you intend to use the Yata system for your base, you may wish to move the thread there. This one is still going to be used for my 4e Revision of my initial system, so you might want to use the other thread for planning.

There's a thread for YATA? But I'm also your file, too. I didn't know you released it as a .doc file for download until this morning, otherwise I would have grabbed it sooner and listed you as a reference.


The existance of Bounts aren't even canon.:smallmad:

What's wrong with that? Sure they're not part of the official story, but their story is decent, compared to other filler.

So should I or shouldn't I add Bounts to the rules set?

[FelixZ]

Meh, your choice. But personaly, I wouldn't use them.

[Behold_the_Void]

The bount arc was, as I recall, written by Kubo, so it has a certain level of canon.

And I didn't realize you hadn't seen my rules yet, if so I would have mentioned it.

[FelixZ]

Does that mean theres a new update? :smallbiggrin:

[Shinobi_Guyver]

The bount arc was, as I recall, written by Kubo, so it has a certain level of canon.

And I didn't realize you hadn't seen my rules yet, if so I would have mentioned it.

If Kubo wrote it, I wonder why it wasn't in the manga? :\

It was still pretty good, though.

Also, BtV, do you do a lot of homebrew stuff? I read over your rules set for Bleach and they look very good. Would you be willing to take a look at my Guyver conversion? Just click the Guyver userbar in my sig, please...

[Behold_the_Void]

If Kubo wrote it, I wonder why it wasn't in the manga? :\

It was still pretty good, though.

Also, BtV, do you do a lot of homebrew stuff? I read over your rules set for Bleach and they look very good. Would you be willing to take a look at my Guyver conversion? Just click the Guyver userbar in my sig, please...


Kubo wrote the arc specifically as filler for the anime so that the manga could get far enough ahead.

My homebrew is generally in my signature. My major project at the moment is the anime system (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4342428) which is made for marketing eventually, and I honestly feel it's the best thing I have for offering the spirit of Bleach. D20, I found with the 3e version, is just extremely restricting and generally unsuited for the Bleach feel, and while I may take another stab with 4e it won't be until I've got my anime system straightened out and working how I want and hopefully making me money.

And I can give your Guyver a look, but I haven't seen Guyver in YEARS so I'm a bit fuzzy on the details.

[FelixZ]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1038972

These guys have been working since before 4e came out on a homebrew generator that does everything from powers to classes.

[Shinobi_Guyver]

@ Behold_the_Void - That's kinda cool... I wonder if he did the same for the current filler arc (The New Captain Amagai Shusuke Arc)?

Unfortunately, I don't have a group to playtest with, so I can't really offer to help you with your new system.

As far as 3E goes, I find that the skills system works well compared to the 4E version. I do like D20 Modern's Talent Tree setup for sub-groups, so that was something I was definitely going to use. As far as kido/spells/powers, I prefer the 4E version since it is simpler and more straightforward as far as execution.

When I manage to finish, it will probably be a blend of 3E, 4E, and D20 Modern.

I look forward to what you have to say about my Guyver conversion. It is done for 4E, and don't ask to see the original... it's so horrible.... /)_(\

@ FelixZ -- The generator looks pretty handy, but from the screenshots, I get the feeling that all it does is give the proper formatting for everything. When I have more time, I'll download it and give it a try.

[black dragoon]

Not to be a bother but is there a PDF format of this?

[Shinobi_Guyver]

Not to be a bother but is there a PDF format of this?

I don't think he has uploaded a .pdf anywhere, but you can do one yourself.

Just download his .doc file and open it with OpenOffice.org Writer. Go to "File" -> "Export as PDF," make sure that the "General" tab is set to Range: All, and click okay.

The above steps will work for just about any text file you want as a .pdf.

Since I already done it, you can download it here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QQ6WQLHQ

[FelixZ]

Not to be a bother but is there a PDF format of this?

I'll upload one after I do some altering of my own.... Specifically, making it so the quincy doesn't die after one hit. I mean, hd4? Realy? :smallannoyed:

[black dragoon]

It's ranged fighter but that really squishy. I would think a D6 at least.

[FelixZ]

If it's OK with Void, I'd like to continue working on BleachD20. I feel it has alot of room to grow, however there are some things that need to be hammered out.

If it is OK with him, then I would like a list of the top things every wants to see as an augment ability. I've already put in elemental damage and reduced the fleshy level of the quincy.

[Behold_the_Void]

If it's OK with Void, I'd like to continue working on BleachD20. I feel it has alot of room to grow, however there are some things that need to be hammered out.

If it is OK with him, then I would like a list of the top things every wants to see as an augment ability. I've already put in elemental damage and reduced the fleshy level of the quincy.

You're more than welcome to. I won't have time to start on the 4e version for awhile, and I really don't like working with 3e. Just credit all my original work, if you would.

[Juhn]

Oh hey, it looks like this thing's back and being worked on again. Seeing that actually makes me really happy. I originally saw this thread a few months ago, read through it, and got really really excited to the point where I couldn't wait to play it when it was finished. Then, I got to the end of the thread, and found out it was being converted to 4e. That was a little disappointing, but if 4e worked better for Bleach it didn't really matter to me which system was used (as all the "4e doesn't feel like DnD" and similar complaints were rather invalid for a setting like Bleach). Then it looked like this was getting scrapped and the project would essentially be scrapped. I don't mean to complain, as BtV has the right to work on whatever he likes in his free time, but I'd found that an immensely disappointing fact after how worked up I'd gotten over how cool the idea of being able to play a working Bleach RPG was. I'm really glad to hear that this project isn't dead, regardless of who's behind the wheel on it now. Good luck with your current project BtV, and I'm sure I'll still be eager to play your 4e version when you have time to create it, or even a Bleach campaign setting or something made using the system you're currently working on.

With regard to the project as it's currently being worked on and my comments on that: I'm entirely for using whichever system, or systems, you guys feel would work best for a Bleach RPG. If it's going to contain stuff from various systems, though, I'd ask that basic system rules be covered in the released documents. Just because I may have the DnD 3.5 Corebooks doesn't mean I necessarily have the d20 Modern Corebooks or SWSE Corebooks, and I'd rather not have to by several rulebooks in order to play one homebrewed system, regardless of how awesome being able to play a Bleach RPG sounds to me.

Felix, Shinobi, are you two working on two separate systems or collaborating? I'd just like to be clear on this, though I don't know how I like the sounds of two competing systems when a collaboration could potentially result in a better quality finished product. But again, this isn't up to me, it's entirely up to you guys.

With regards to the Quincy thing, it's been said time and time again the class as it stands is unusable. Many people have come across this fact. It's essentially only there for inspiration at this point, from what I can tell.

As far as various character classes go, I can guarantee you that people are going to want to play Orihime-type characters. Yes, in the show's current setting she's a rarity. She's also one of the core cast of protagonists, and doubtless some people are going to want to play someone like her, just as badly as some people are going to want to play characters like Chad, or shinigami, or Quincy. Same thing goes for Bount. Yes, they were filler. Yes, they're all but extinct in the show's setting now. I can also guarantee you there are roleplayers who watched the Bount arc and went "It'd be awesome to play one of those." I'd greatly encourage having rules for people to play any character they want to, from Shinigami to Quincy to Orihime- and Chad-types to Bount. The system that started this thread had enough requests for Kenpachi-type characters that accomodations were made and people were happier for it. In short, I'd actively encourage those making a Bleach system to allow people to play characters like anyone they've seen in the show. In fact, thinking about this has made me think it'd be interesting to try playing a mod-soul. The show's setting is not necessarily the group's setting, and that's one of the beautiful things about RPGs.

Just something to think about, I suppose. In any case, thanks for your time, and keep up the good work! :smallbiggrin:

[Shinobi_Guyver]

Felix, Shinobi, are you two working on two separate systems or collaborating? I'd just like to be clear on this, though I don't know how I like the sounds of two competing systems when a collaboration could potentially result in a better quality finished product. But again, this isn't up to me, it's entirely up to you guys.

As far as I know, Felix is working on his own "upgrade" of Behold_the_Void's Bleach system.

If he would like to contact me for information/ideas/whatever, that's fine with me.

When I release my version, it will be in a different thread (per BtV's request several posts back). I'll do a 3E-type release and a 4E-style release (hopefully) at the same time.

If you're worried about not having the necessary manuals to make sense of everything, don't. I plan on putting everything needed in a .pdf so you can download and play.

Things are going rather decent with my version, I just have to hammer out some specifics and work on balance.

[draxredd]

I'm toying with a system for implementing some of the philosophical verbal jousting that flourish in the Bleach fights. I was heading to something like this :
- each round of fight, players roll a contested diplomacy, intimidate or bluff check
- the winner gets a +2 attack and damage roll for the round. If he keeps winning, his bonus can stack up to +6 (max)
- the roll can be, of course, modified by brilliant roleplay (dm's call)

[SamTech1]

so any quinciy class's or bounts?

[Juhn]

At the moment we don't have a fully working and tested system from what I know, so it's a little early for pbp.

Quincy is being worked on by both parties, and I don't know what's going on with Bounts. Im hoping there'll be Bounts in both systems - if the individual GM doesn't like their canonicity then they can disallow it, but it'd be good to have the option for those people who like the Bounts.

[Behold_the_Void]

For those using my system as a base, Bounts were going to be built much like the other human classes I had started on but focused on Summoning abilities. And while I'm at it, the Manifester I actually had a system kind of worked out based around points per encounter to use their abilities in a sort of ToB/Psionics mix, but I never got a chance to make all the manifestations.

[Shinobi_Guyver]

Here is a tentative list of classes in SG Bleach D20 (possible title):

Shinigami
Quincy
Hollow (Yasutora "Chad" Sado-type PCs)
??? (Orihime Inoue-type PCs)
Bounts

For those who are going to ask, Vizards are either going to be a prestige class or a template.

Hollows and Arrancar are going to be monsters.

As it stands, a Shinigami character's ranking in the Gotei 13 will depend on their level, not a prestige class. Justification for this is found in the Soul Society arc when Ichigo first goes to rescue Rukia. It is said his power is equal to that of a Captain, but he is not part of the Gotei 13 and does not have an official ranking.


This will probably be my last post in Behold_the_Void's thread. If you have questions or comments, drop me a PM and be on the look out for my SG Bleach D20 thread in the future! (And click my sig! >.> )

[Yeril]

Hey guys, how is Bleach d20 coming along?

I remember following this thead and joining in at the playtesting bit aaaages ago but I felt like coming back to see how you guys are doing. :smallsmile:

Wheres the latest "Edition" of the rules if there are any ready to show?

[Juhn]

I'm assuming PMs would be more prudent, as I don't think the people working on Bleach D20 at the moment are checking this thread anymore...

Which reminds me, I should probably fire off a couple of those.

[Kroy]

Are you still working on this or did you give up, Behold?

[Juhn]

Last I heard he'd put this project on hiatus till he's through with a few other ones. Once he's done with those, he may come back to this. Sift through the last few pages if you want the exact details.

[Dante & Vergil]

I have quite a lot to say, so bear with me.
If the system is going to be converted to 4e, could you guys please make a new thread for it? I would like to keep this thread 3/3.5e, plus I would think it would be easier to have them in seperate threads.
I have been thinking about having a "spiritual pressure" score in the system, and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I think it would fit the flavor very well, and would make some mechanics make more sense. I don't quite have a strong base for this idea, but I'm sure I could get something to work. If you guys don't want it in your system, don't use it. It's your choice, but I think you'll be missing out.
I'll try to get more back to you guys.

[Myou]

I'd really love to see a final version of these rules, I hope that you do come back to them.

[Dante & Vergil]

I have written up rules for starting Reiatsu but I haven't quite materialized it yet. I know what I want and how it's going to done, to a certain degree. I'll try to write up more over the weekend.
On another note, have you guys seen the most recent chapter?(#345) I'm going to say a little of what happens in the following spoiler text.
Ulquiorra has released his zanpakuto. He says, "Bind, Murus-Hierago" and a whole lot of crazy goes down. In short, Ichigo is screwed and read the chapter already!!!!

[Myou]

I have written up rules for starting Reiatsu but I haven't quite materialized it yet. I know what I want and how it's going to done, to a certain degree. I'll try to write up more over the weekend.
On another note, have you guys seen the most recent chapter?(#345) I'm going to say a little of what happens in the following spoiler text.
Ulquiorra has released his zanpakuto. He says, "Bind, Murus-Hierago" and a whole lot of crazy goes down. In short, Ichigo is screwed and read the chapter already!!!!

It was a very interesting (and long-awaited) chapter, I'm looking foward to the next one, but this might not be the right thread to discuss it.

[Dante & Vergil]

Okay, I haven't finished what Reiatsu is going to be yet, but I am going to put up some of the ideas I have about it, though they are not quite complete.
Reiatsu

Each character in Bleach d20 has a Reiatsu score.
For each level the character has, his Reiatsu score increases by 1.
There will be various ways to do starting Reiatsu, the simplest way is to gain it only from class levels.
If you do have a starting Reiatsu score, add it to the Reiatsu gained from class levels, but I'm sure you guys and gals already figured that out. :smallwink:


The following are ideas that I think work, but haven't finallized what it'll look on paper and/or don't know if it's accurate.



Level based effects will be determined by the Reiatsu score.
Zanpakuto damage will be based off of the Reiatsu score.
Gaining zanpakuto abilities will be based on Reiatsu score.
When a person attacks someone, after rolling to attack, if the attacker's Reiatsu is lower than the one being attacked, the one being attacked takes no damage. (You still have to hit with the attack roll.)
With 4 in mind, for someone with sufficiently lower Reiatsu to attack someone with a higher Reiatsu, the defender still takes no damage and the attacker takes the damage instead.
If a person would attack someone with a sufficiently lower reiatsu than the person attacking and have them sneak-attackable (for simplicity's sake, and for lack of a better word), the attack is an automatic critical hit.
When someone scores a critical hit, they can make the attack a called shot.
There needs to be a proper system for called shots for Bleach d20. For right now, making called can be done without having to make a critical hit. I might make even harder places to hit with a called shot because those places, like the eyes and throat, have only half the reiatsu score than normal.:smallwink:
If a sufficient concentration check is made, a person can increase their reiatsu score, but only for determining zanpakuto damage and attacking reiatsu, as in 4 and 5.
When person is using shunpo, to even see it a one needs to have a relatively close reiatsu score to see where the person moves. (Possibley make a sufficient spot check to see the person as well. I'm not sure yet about it though.)
When using shunpo and then follow up with an attack, if the person being attacked can't see the shunpo, the person is sneak-attackable.
When taking a total defense action, fighting defensively as a standard or full-round action, or using combat expertise with at least a -1 penalty, a person can use their zanpakuto to parry.
When using a zanpakuto to parry, an attacker has to have a Reiatsu score 1½ times larger than normal to deal damage to the defender parrying. (Using longer actions gives an action to charge up reiatsu.)
If a person overcomes someone's reiatsu while parrying, the damage is dealt to the zanpakuto instead, and if the zanpakuto is dealt enough damage to break through, the person parrying then takes the damage.
When someone has taken enough damage, (like ½ of their hit points), their reiatsu goes down by ½ due to prolonged exast.
Shikai will raise reiatsu by some amount, and Bankai will multiply your Reiatsu by 5 (if untrained with it) to 10 (if much time has been spent training with it).
Using this system, damage reduction and spell resistance are going to be removed.


I'm going to edit this repeatedly, so when an idea strikes, I don't have to keep posting new posts all over the place. Also please tell me if something doesn't look quite right. (Especially the parrying stuff.)

[Juhn]

I'm not sure about #4. The Captains certainly wouldn't all be the same level, and they're capable of doing at least some damage to one another. Perhaps change it to reduction dependent on the difference in Reiatsu? Once you hit a certain difference, the damage would be negated entirely.

[Dante & Vergil]

I'm not sure about #4. The Captains certainly wouldn't all be the same level, and they're capable of doing at least some damage to one another. Perhaps change it to reduction dependent on the difference in Reiatsu? Once you hit a certain difference, the damage would be negated entirely.

Yeah, I was thinking that as well. How about this, if the attacker is within 5 they deal damage as normal, if they are withing 10 they hit but at ½ damage, and anything below 10 deals no damage and if they are 15 bellow, the attacker takes the damage instead?
The numbers are not for sure, but you get the idea.
I was also thinking prestiege classes get larger progression. Mind you, as always, numbers are not final but here it goes. Captains gain 5 points per level, and there should be a Lieutenant class as well, that would gain 3 points per level, and levels of Lieutenant can be swapped out for levels in Captain when a Lieutenant becomes a Captain. For the moment, Vaizard and Arrancar could gain 2 a level as well and when hollowfied/uses resereccion, their reiatsu goes up by 10.
With the Reiatsu machanics, one of the things I trying to convey is that you shouldn't mess with people stronger than you, or they'll drop you in one hit and usually with style!!!:smallcool:

[novabombd]

hello everyone,
i want to say bleach is incredible and that you people working on this are geniuses, i dieing to play bleach D20!!!
please i need to ask a favor. i'm online on my playstation 3 and it can't open, download, or read any word files at all, and i don't have a computer. if ANYONE would be willing to copy, paste, and e-mail me a copy of the rules and everything they have come up with so far here (right now i have to serch through 28 forum pages to find a specific zanpakutou type) they would become my hero lol. thanks again, and AWSOME work so far, please keep it up.
my e-mail is
[email protected]

[Dante & Vergil]

I have sent you an e-mail with the entire rules. I hope this helps.:smallbiggrin:

[kyoten]

I have sent you an e-mail with the entire rules. I hope this helps.:smallbiggrin:

Might I request a copy?

E-mail - [email protected]

[novabombd]

I have sent you an e-mail with the entire rules. I hope this helps.:smallbiggrin:

thanks alot, your the man, i really appreciate it.:smallbiggrin:

[Dante & Vergil]

Might I request a copy?

I have sent you an e-mail as well. Hope it helps!

Also, what do you guys think of my Reiatsu stuff? I really want to get this stuff fleshed out, and feedback will help. *Hint**Hint*

[Juhn]

I don't know how much help I can be without playtesting. I'm just looking at this from a loyalty-to-the-source-material perspective here.

[Dante & Vergil]

I noticed that the e-mails I sent out don't show everything, so I'm probably not going to send out any more e-mails until further notice. I still might send them out if you others got all of the rules, but for now I'm not going to do the e-mails.

Okay I edited the end of the list so take a look and tell me what you think.

I think that Arrancar put some of their Reiatsu into their zanpakuto release, and when they release, it multiplies it. Let me know what you think as always.
:smallsmile:

[Deathdarken]

well what else is being worked on I've used this system so far I got a few lvl 3 and they are having fun, I've even gone as far as creating my own class for story line

also could I get the temple for an player hollow that would be nice to have I have not been here sense the begin so I don't know if there was one it was not with the download of the stuff

[Juhn]

People are playing this in its unfinished form? I hadn't realized this.

It's rather heartening, though.

[Deathdarken]

People are playing this in its unfinished form? I hadn't realized this.

It's rather heartening, though.

yeah its not complete, but that is why people play test it I'm glad I found this its fun and my players agree it too

[Dante & Vergil]

Another update.
Also now we have to do a system for arrancars getting a second release because of the most recent chapters.

[Markus Darkmind]

I tried to read throught the whole thread, but I think I'll just ask, to be sure... :smallsmile:
Is anyone going to use the first version (I mean, the one of Void) as a base to work on, or you guys are going to develope your own version? Because, my DM would like to use it, but there are some things that I think just don't work well right now... (see the last post of Dante&Vergil to see what I mean, because I wasn't able to figure out how to do the spoiler thing :smallfrown:)

I hope my english isn't too bad, it's my first time in an english forum (and I still did manage to repeat myself in a short amount of time, Hurray! :smallbiggrin:)

[Dante & Vergil]

I tried to read throught the whole thread, but I think I'll just ask, to be sure... :smallsmile:
Is anyone going to use the first version (I mean, the one of Void) as a base to work on, or you guys are going to develope your own version? Because, my DM would like to use it, but there are some things that I think just don't work well right now... (see the last post of Dante&Vergil to see what I mean, because I wasn't able to figure out how to do the spoiler thing :smallfrown:)

I hope my english isn't too bad, it's my first time in an english forum (and I still did manage to repeat myself in a short amount of time, Hurray! :smallbiggrin:)

I'm going to try to base mine off of Void's as much as possible, but I will do some things a little differently.
I'm assuming that the problem you're having is reading the spoiler block, not the stuff that I or others have put up. If I'm wrong, state your problem and I'll try to deal with it.
Also don't worry about you english. If there is any problems with getting a point across, it's usually me with my bad eyesight. :smalltongue:

[Juhn]

I'm thinking that he meant that Void's system as it stands does not have a system for that thing you spoilered, and he didn't outright state it because he couldn't get spoiler tags to work. Of course, I could be wrong.

[Krazddndfreek]

This question may have been posted earlier in the forum, but I have never seen anyone do a "Final Shikai" or "Final Bankai" ability, or anything remotely similar to it in the bleach manga, or I might just have missed it. Or if it's just an ability to give the shinigami another option.
Someone help me out here?

[Kroy]

This question may have been posted earlier in the forum, but I have never seen anyone do a "Final Shikai" or "Final Bankai" ability, or anything remotely similar to it in the bleach manga, or I might just have missed it. Or if it's just an ability to give the shinigami another option.
Someone help me out here?

Renji did in the soul society arc. He used the last of his Zampoktou's (to lazy to look up spelling) power to buy Ichigo a few seconds to attack Aizen. It didn't help, but he lost his Zampouktou (still wrong, I know).

[Krazddndfreek]

Thanks, I was wondering about that, plus my brother was pesking me about it. That aside, are there any other times when anyone does that or was that really the only time?

I really want to be able to contribute something, I might try playtesting this with some of my friends to figure better ways to flesh out the reiatsu system. Hope I can help!

[Krazddndfreek]

Hey I've just started reading this thread further than the first three pages and the pages after page 26; on page 8 there is a feat called Extended Mask Duration. Now, I'm not sure if people have already expanded on it or dismissed it (I haven't seen it in the compilation or at least I don't think so) but I have a proposition to make it in line with the whole "completely lose your soul to your inner hollow" idea:

Extended Mask Duration

Prerequisites: Vizard 5th, BAB +12

Benefits: You can manifest your mask for a longer duration at the risk of your sanity and physical health. After the duration of your mask feature ends, you may choose to take 1 point of charisma damage to extend the mask duration by a number of rounds equal to your charisma bonus (min. 1). After extending the duration you must make a will save DC=(14+the amount of charisma damage you have dealt yourself). Failure will result in the continued extension of your mask and another point of charisma damage in addition to losing control of your character (i.e. you are an NPC) untill a will save is succeeded on. Success will allow you to either extend the duration or simply dismiss the effect. Reguardless, after the new mask duration ends you are fatigued from physical stress. If your charisma score reaches 0 from this effect then you lose your sanity (and thus are permanently an NPC).

It's not perfect but I wanted to be able to have "inner conflicts" within the characters' corrupted soul and extending the duration of the mask seemed pretty useful for that. I know it's long and it will probably need to be simplified if it is to be used at all. or not.

[Markus Darkmind]

I'm thinking that he meant that Void's system as it stands does not have a system for that thing you spoilered, and he didn't outright state it because he couldn't get spoiler tags to work.

This is exactly what I mean :smallsmile:

[Krazddndfreek]

Would that feat be cool? or should the damage be changed to wisdom damage? I thought about it, but I wanted this to represent the sort of contest of personalities in bleach, but wisdom could work too as sort of a duel-of-wills kinda thing. Or perhaps we should try a different approach?

[Dante & Vergil]

This question may have been posted earlier in the forum, but I have never seen anyone do a "Final Shikai" or "Final Bankai" ability, or anything remotely similar to it in the bleach manga, or I might just have missed it. Or if it's just an ability to give the shinigami another option.
Someone help me out here?

I noticed that only Renji does that. Also I noticed about said attack has a name. I think "Final Shikai" and "Final Bankai" are going to be changed to "Shikai Named-Attack" and "Bankai Named-Attack". The Shikai one will be at the same level, but a person gets at least one Bankai attack when they obtain Bankai. You can choose how the attack works, like make it a Sacrifice attack or make it a normal, more powerful attack. This is just an idea and there is definitely more to be fleshed out about it, but please let me know what you think. I think this version does work better.

[Krazddndfreek]

That's interesting, and it explains why i never noticed it. Vergil's suggestion sounds great.

Is there a more up-to-date version of the rules compilation? if you could e-mail it to me that would be great @ [email protected]. thx

[Dante & Vergil]

The ideas are still not complete unfortunately.
Also I wanted to change the Vaizard and Arrancar from PrC to Templates only applied to Soul Reapers and Hollows, respectively.

[Krazddndfreek]

Ahh I see... that is most unfortunate.
I liked the PrCs so I don't have a problem with them but looking at templates for those two sounds interesting.

[ultima22689]

Do you mind sending me a copy as well? I'm in a game right now that uses the orignial system by void and i'm sure we would have a great time play testing it.

My email is [email protected]

[Dante & Vergil]

I cannot give any copies of it because, again it's not finished.
I sorry I can't get it out sooner, but bear with me. I can only do so much with what I have in the brains department.
One of the ideas I had was to obtain shikai, you had to train for it and you had to get your reiatsu to 15 to obtain it. Bankai you would have to do the same but get it to 95. Training to gain these increases your Reiatsu by 1 for each for each week you train with it (for shikai) or for each month you train with it (for bankai).
Not finished more later.

[ultima22689]

I cannot give any copies of it because, again it's not finished.
I sorry I can't get it out sooner, but bear with me. I can only do so much with what I have in the brains department.
One of the ideas I had was to obtain shikai, you had to train for it and you had to get your reiatsu to 15 to obtain it. Bankai you would have to do the same but get it to 95. Training to gain these increases your Reiatsu by 1 for each for each week you train with it (for shikai) or for each month you train with it (for bankai).
Not finished more later.

That sounds awesome. If you are working on your own maybe I can help. I attempted my own version of Bleach D20 but it got shot down pretty badly at Narutod20 forums. You don't have to send me a file or anything but shoot me an email of basically what direction you're trying to go with and i'll try to give you any ideas i've thought of or already wrote down, any number of heads is better than one, well except zero or 1/2 a head.

[Markus Darkmind]

Actually I think we've already seen a Final Bankay ability: Biakuya's one, in his final blow against ichigo right before his defeat, when he is sorrounded by a white aura taking the shape of wings.

[Dante & Vergil]

Actually I think we've already seen a Final Bankay ability: Biakuya's one, in his final blow against ichigo right before his defeat, when he is sorrounded by a white aura taking the shape of wings.

That's true, Byakuya has a Final Bankai, but how many people other than Byakuya and Renji have Final Versions of Bankai and Shikai, where their Zanpakuto shatters? That's why I want to change it from Final Shikai/Bankai to Name Shikai/Bankai, where you gain a named attack, which I've seen a lot of people get, and doesn't shatter if you don't want to. And if you do, you'll get proper compensation.

[Markus Darkmind]

That's why I want to change it from Final Shikai/Bankai to Name Shikai/Bankai, where you gain a named attack, which I've seen a lot of people get, and doesn't shatter if you don't want to. And if you do, you'll get proper compensation.

Ok, I get your point. Can't wait to see it!

[horngeek]

Has anyone run a game using this system on the GitP PbP board yet?

[Krazddndfreek]

I would like know of such happenings as well.
If anyone is planning on it plz plz get me and horngeek before doing anything else :smallbiggrin:

[Dante & Vergil]

I cannot give any copies of it because, again it's not finished.
I'm sorry I can't get it out sooner, but bear with me. I can only do so much with what I have in the brains department.
One of the ideas I had was to obtain shikai, you had to train for it and you had to get "Training Points" to 15 to obtain it. Bankai you would have to do the same but get "Training Points" to 135. Training to gain these increases your "Training Points" by 1 for each for each week you train for it (for shikai) or for each month you train for it (for bankai). You start with "Training Points" equal to your Reiatsu. Before you can obtain Shikai, your Asauchi has to personalize itself to you (gaining the alternate form), and Bankai you must be able to Manifest your zanpakuto spirit at will (Which starts at 15 Reiatsu).
Not finished more later. Well actually this looks pretty good.

Made some adjustments in red and then some.
Edit: Made Training Points equal to Reiatsu instead of Base Reiatsu, which is noted in blue. As always tell me what you think.

[Krazddndfreek]

Sounds good, but the "Training Points" thing is kind of vague the whole "training for a week" is also ambiguous as to what it would entitle (I understand that the term "training points" is sort of tentative but I had to point it out in case). Perhaps it should use reiatsu as an alternative to exp.
(i.e. you gain "reiatsu" by doing quests and can use it to "buy" abilities for your zanpakuto and the total amount of "reiatsu" that you've spent + reiatsu "free" count towards your reiatsu score and for levels, shikai, and bankai etc.)

Still tentative, maybe we should throw away the DnD system and try using something like wikirps.com (http://www.wikirps.com)'s exp system (like gurps)

[horngeek]

Hmm. For the

Arrancar second release, the best thing to to would just be to give the ability to unlock a equivalent to Bankai at arrancar level 12. Easiest and least fuss.

[Markus Darkmind]

that seems a good idea, horngeek. It could also function for... the thing that happened in the last chapters of these weeks (I can't understand how to do the spoiler thing, sigh... may someone help me, please...?)

[horngeek]

Also, has anyone done playtesting for this yet? If not, I'd be willing to volunteer for any playtesting.

EDIT: Right. Here's how you do a spoiler. You need to take out the spaces between the bracketed bits for it to really work.

A demo[/spoiler ]

Like:

[SPOILER]You mean Ichigo's uber-vizard form? because in 353 Ichigo stated that that's his Hollow that fought, not him. He does now have high-speed regeneration even in normal form now, though

[Dante & Vergil]

Sounds good, but the "Training Points" thing is kind of vague the whole "training for a week" is also ambiguous as to what it would entitle (I understand that the term "training points" is sort of tentative but I had to point it out in case).

Oh, I guess I didn't think about that. I'll try to shed some light on what training will do.
What training is all about is you spend all of you're time trying to increase your points to 15 to get Shikai (and because Shinigami/Soul Reapers don't eat or sleep most of the time
I know it's not done but I'm out of time.

Perhaps it should use reiatsu as an alternative to exp.
(i.e. you gain "reiatsu" by doing quests and can use it to "buy" abilities for your zanpakuto and the total amount of "reiatsu" that you've spent + reiatsu "free" count towards your reiatsu score and for levels, shikai, and bankai etc.)
Still tentative, maybe we should throw away the DnD system and try using something like wikirps.com (http://www.wikirps.com)'s exp system (like gurps)

I thought about using Reiatsu like that, but I don't have the experience with systems as such, unless you ment as a name change only, but I'm sure you weren't. I might be able to do something like this if I can get some help with my friends
Plus levels still determine base attack bonus, skills per level and skill caps (especially with what Aizen said about Soul Reapers being only able to train so far in the 4 areas).

[horngeek]

Actually... Hmmm... Okay, I'll say it.

Does the D20 Bleach system, as it stands in the word doc, really need alignment at all?

In the Bleachverse, whether you are good or evil doesn't seem to affect any spells, attacks, or anything else.

Nor does it seem to affect whether thay let you into the Shinigami, as long as you aren't too much of an ass about it.

Really, the only changes I can see that would be needed are the removal of the Smite Evil and Smite Good feats.

[Krazddndfreek]

Really, the only changes I can see that would be needed are the removal of the Smite Evil and Smite Good feats.

Which are the most useless in my opinion

[Dante & Vergil]

Actually... Hmmm... Okay, I'll say it.

Does the D20 Bleach system, as it stands in the word doc, really need alignment at all?

In the Bleachverse, whether you are good or evil doesn't seem to affect any spells, attacks, or anything else.

Nor does it seem to affect whether thay let you into the Shinigami, as long as you aren't too much of an ass about it.

Really, the only changes I can see that would be needed are the removal of the Smite Evil and Smite Good feats.

I guess you have a point about alignment but someone needs to get me a copy of the laws of Soul Society the we know of to date, so that yeah we don't have to restricted to good, but you can't be openly evil without breaking some laws, and they do enforce those laws.

The whole thing with using Smite Evil/Good feats would then be pretty pointless. I don't even like using a bunch of class abilities as feats. Unless they get a Bleach mechanic and flavor overhaul, they need to be removed.
But I will not be making any changes like this to Void's system, I will only be adding/changing some things to work with it. So there will most likely be no dramatic changes to it, except with where the Vaizard and Arrancar are concerned. I want to change those to templates.

[horngeek]

Good point about the laws.

However, they do let Mayuri run about, and he's certainly either NE or CE.
Even in D&D peaople aren't restricted to Good.

[Markus Darkmind]

Yes, I meant Ichigo's new Hollow form. I believe the crazy white man inside his head has now reached Vasto Lorde level, but of course it's just a teory. So, how do you plan to insert this thing in? It seems like a hard one to me... Too epic to be balanced...

Also, if you change the Vizard to make it a template, then it is intended for NPC only?

[ultima22689]

Yes, I meant Ichigo's new Hollow form. I believe the crazy white man inside his head has now reached Vasto Lorde level, but of course it's just a teory. So, how do you plan to insert this thing in? It seems like a hard one to me... Too epic to be balanced...

Also, if you change the Vizard to make it a template, then it is intended for NPC only?

Anything can be balanced and templates aren't meant only for NPCs.

[Dante & Vergil]

Yes, I meant Ichigo's new Hollow form. I believe the crazy white man inside his head has now reached Vasto Lorde level, but of course it's just a teory. So, how do you plan to insert this thing in? It seems like a hard one to me... Too epic to be balanced...

Also, if you change the Vizard to make it a template, then it is intended for NPC only?

I actually have an idea of what Vasto Lordes are going to be like. It's going to be a raw increase, but I going to have to have what Captains are going to be like and the same for Bankai. But now that I think about it, I might be able to do something right now tell me what you guys/gals think.
Captains at each level in the PrC get 5 Reiatsu, but at to even be able to gain levels, you have to be a Captain for X amount of years or be alive for X+Y amount of years. The underlined part is not a strong idea, and if anyone has a problem with it, or a better idea, please let me know and it's gone.
Lieutenants get 3 per level in the PrC but they don't have a time restriction.
Lieutenants can (and most likely will be forced to) trade levels in the Lieutnenant PrC for Captain levels they become a Captain.
Both Captain and Lieutenant are 5 level prestiege classes. Lieutenants only get a better reiatsu increase, other than that, it's the same as taking levels in one of the base classes.

Sorry to go off on a different tangent. The Vasto Lorde idea is definitly not ready, but it's getting there.

[Juhn]

be a Captain for X amount of years or be alive for X+Y amount of years

Even the first half of this might preclude its use in an actual campaign. Effectively, from what I can glean from this, you have to spend years in the class in order to level up in it. I doubt most campaigns would last that long, so you'd effectively have to start in the class in order to ever take levels in it.

This system is primarily based off of what we see in the series, yeah? Keeping with that, the central group in BLEACH should be considered the equivalent to a group of PCs. Every single one of them is an exceptional individual, advancing at an incredible rate as compared to your average shinigami. I don't see anything wrong with having PCs do the same, though. PCs are supposed to be exceptional, and there's already precedent for that type of thing in the series itself.

I'm also somewhat confused by the idea of turning what is effectively a rank into a prestige class, especially one that automatically makes the person who takes it significantly better than his/her peers. Yes, Lieutenants are far-and-away better than your rank-and-file shinigami, and there's a similar difference between Captains and Lieutenants. But a shinigami becomes a captain or a lieutenant because he's significantly more powerful than almost anyone in soul society, not the other way around. He's not more powerful because he's a captain, he's a captain because he's more powerful.

From what I can tell, higher levels of reiatsu are gained in one of two ways in BLEACH. Either you're born into an exceptionally strong bloodline (if I'm remembering what Byakuya said properly, it's been a while) or you train like crazy. Or, depending on what exactly the deal is with Isshin, both might be the case for Ichigo. Higher-powered NPCs will likely be such for the former reason, while higher powered PCs will likely be such for the latter reason (XP advancement models intense training/pushing your limits rather well).

[ultima22689]

I think it would be more ideal to make more original prestige classes and rank what you are capable of depending on your reiatsu level, like lets say you gain a certain amount of levels of Zanpakutou master, Cero specialist, shunpo god(random ideas of mine for classes bumping around in my head) and your reiatsu reaches a certain point where you are equivalent to a Espada #3 or a Captain or whatever and simply have a table range of where the standard for each sit.

[Markus Darkmind]

I was wondering... Every captain in the serie seems to specialize in the division he leads: Soi Fon is an assassin, Unohana a healer, Mayuri a mad scientist, Kenpachi a crazy fighter... If they are better than anyone else in their field of specialization, maybe the captain prc could have some abilities that reflect this. The problem is, that would require other prestige classes that provide lesser version of these abilities, or something similar but less powerful in the Liutenent prc too. What's worse is that there are divisions which don't seem to have a specialization at all...

However, I believe it could be an interesting idea. What do you think about it?

[Athildur]

Personally, I think that a shinigami is not defined by the squad he is in, but vice versa.

The 11th squad is not the combat squad because it forces every member to become a combat type and teach them these abilities. People who feel drawn to combat skills simply join the 11th squad, where they would feel most comfortable.

I do not believe special abilities should be granted, because a character's abilities should define what squad he belongs to (or leads), not the other way around.

On the subject of Orihime and Chad (I hope this hasn't been said yet, I haven't read the whole thread):
- Urahara explained that there are only a few kinds of power. Quincy, Hollow and Shinigami. If we take this to be truth (and let's assume he is right, being the expert on all things...well, on just about all things :P), then we can logically conclude a few things, with the help of the following three facts/oservations:

1) Quincy powers derive from drawing spirit particles onto themselves and using these for combat. This is their main ability, which they themselves have enhanced by use of tools (the silver tubes, the seele schneiders, etc).

2) Shinigami power is external. That is to say, their soul attracts an external force (a soul-like being) and through the bond that is forged the shinigami gains power. This can be deduced from the fact that every zanpakutou is it's own being, with it's own personality.
Also, if we take the diamond dust rebellion movie to be true (I'm sure this is a subject that may be long discussed), it is clear that the zanpakutou 'soul' chooses it's 'mate'. Therefor, it must be a seperate entity.
This is an 'external' power.

3) Hollow have an internal power. Their power comes from somehow altering their body or spirit to form special weapons for combat. For normal Hollow, this is not really the case. But most Hollow with special abilities only gain those from having some bodily change (grand fisher, for example).
As can be seen with Arrancar as well, they seal away part of their soul into a zanpakutou, keeping their true forms and abilities in there.
This is an 'internal' power.

This might also be seen from the fact that all arrancar zanpakutou releases alter their bodies into a more hollow-like form, giving them their own full abilities, whereas shinigami releases always form a seperate addition to the shinigami or just create an external power altogether.
Although Hitsugaya's bankai may seem a bit Hollow-ish from this perspective, the true power is the seemingly sentient dragons he fires.

Now, considering this, we look at Chad and Orihime.

Chad's power alters his arms into forms that allow him to use special abilities. There is no seperate entity involved, the power comes entirely from within himself. Combine this with the fact that he said that his powers seemed to awaken more or be more accessible in Hueco Mundo and we have ourselves a conclusion: Chad's power is, in fact, a Hollow power!
(Also, his main ability is akin to a Cero, sort of)

Orihime's power maniests as six 'pixies' or 'fairies' which can perform special tasks for her. She can call upon them when she needs them, but it infers no physical change and the shunshun rikka are entirely seperate entities. (Though they would perish if Orihime perished, they are still their own selves).
This leads to the conclusion that Orihime has powers akin to a Shinigami.

Since it was mentioned that both of them had their powers awaken because Ichigo could not control his own outflow of spirit power, one could speculate that Chad perhaps received Ichigo's Hollow half, whereas Orihime received his Shinigami half (assuming here that Ichigo has both halves, which isn't that hard to imagine, even before he underwent hollow transformation)

The Bount would then be a hybrid of Quincy and Shinigami, perhaps. They keep up their strength and superhuman abilities by absorbing spirit particles. However, since they are not full Quincy, they must resort to more drastic measures to collect these particles (aka, vampirism).
Their 'dolls' can be seen as the Shinigami part of their powers. A seperate entity with it's own personality, perhaps even it's own soul, that is (usually) under the command of the Bount, and gives the Bount great power through the ability to control their pet/doll.

Perhaps the Bount were the result of Soul Society's attempts to combine the powers of a Quincy and a Shinigami. I'm not sure what was said in the anime on it, only that it was a soul modification experiment gone wrong.
(Maybe it was them trying to infuse a human soul with Quincy and Shinigami powers, who knows)


---------------

I'm not even saying something should be done with this in the rules. It's probably a lot of work, would be difficult to make rules on, and I'm not sure it would have any particular benefits above what is statted now.

I'm just making these observations and (perhaps faulty) derivations for the sake of argument.

[Athildur]

(Sorry for doublepost, but this post is different from the above one!)


Good point about the laws.

However, they do let Mayuri run about, and he's certainly either NE or CE.
Even in D&D peaople aren't restricted to Good.

Mayuri is, without a shadow of a doubt, CN. (Imho)

He has clearly shown no respect for the laws of soul society, and doesn't give a fiddler's fart about anyone or anything, except his own experiments.
He runs free because he is a powerful individual in soul society, because he has massive knowledge and access to knowledge, and otherwise has the means to somehow get knowledge.
Also, he is not crazy enough to not know his limits. He knows how far he can go before the big guns step in, and he doesn't want that, so he behaves himself in such a manner that his own goals further, while he does not incur the wrath of the other captains.


Also, I read about something concerning inner hollow and such.

This is clearly a problem only suffered by shinigami that go vizard. Shinigami that have become vizard all share a common factor, a factor that one could assume necessary for becoming a Vizard: They were at some point mostly transformed into Hollow. This is true for Ichigo, and for all the other vizard, which we know where turned (partly) Hollow by Aizen's experiments in the past, but the intervention of Urahara with the Hougyoku 'saved' them.

This process seems to awaken an inner Hollow, which apparently everyone has. It is by drawing out this inner Hollow and beating it into submission that you gain the ability to draw upon it's true power without risk of being taken over.

So maybe becoming a Vizard should incorporate this technicality?

[Xuincherguixe]

CN? I'd say Mayuri is one of the evilest characters ever.

The guy is a monster who just happens to be on the side of the Shinigami. He might even be more evil than the main villain of the series.

You really can't even call him an anti hero.


He's one of those characters that I love and hate at the same time. Generally a sign that you've got a good villain.


Kind of hard to place what evil though. Chaotic probably would make the most sense. But, Lawful Evil isn't completely unwarranted. He is loyal to a few. And while he doesn't have much respect for most of his comrades, when soul society really needs him, he'll complain, but do his job.

Also... if one were to describe the Hollow/Shinigami conflict... I would say it's more of a Law/Chaos thing than Good/Evil. While rare, there are a few Arrancar that are good. Or at the very least noble.

[Markus Darkmind]

CN? I'd say Mayuri is one of the evilest characters ever.

I have to agree here. You can't be neutral and make your underlings explode like that, or make a daughter just to beat her all the time...
(not to mention the naughty way which he uses to heal her after Aporro's attack...)


People who feel drawn to combat skills simply join the 11th squad, where they would feel most comfortable.

True. But once they join, I believe the skills they have (combat ones in this case) will improve not just a little, because they can train under their captains or liutenents. It's like the normal prestige classes: to become an archmage, you sure have to be a rather powerful mage, but when you train you gain skills other mages of even higher level don't have (unless they are archmages too).

So, a shinigami with healing abilities goes in th 4th division, then he improves in a way he couldn't before. That's the way I see it...

[Shinobi_Guyver]

On the subject of Kurotsuchi, I'd place him at true neutral, if anything. He strikes a balance between law (following Seireitei laws) and chaos (crazy crap going on in his experiments) as well as good (helping others, to a point) and evil (is selfish about how he does things, prefers to capture and "experiment" on beings).

And the themes of Law vs Chaos are more fitting than Good vs Evil.

Shinigami: Very ordered, structured society. Many laws are in place and enforced. Both good and evil shingami.

Hollow: Wild, primal, instinctive. Everything out for itself. Both good and evil hollow.

[Athildur]

True. But once they join, I believe the skills they have (combat ones in this case) will improve not just a little, because they can train under their captains or liutenents. It's like the normal prestige classes: to become an archmage, you sure have to be a rather powerful mage, but when you train you gain skills other mages of even higher level don't have (unless they are archmages too).

So, a shinigami with healing abilities goes in th 4th division, then he improves in a way he couldn't before. That's the way I see it...

Yes, I completely agree. However, that doesn't change the facts. A captain or lieutenant should not gain class abilities based on the squad's specialisation.
See it like this:
The 11th squad is a combat squad. People who feel they are combat types will try to be transferred to the 11th squad. Once there, they will have many combat-oriented shinigami to spar with and learn from. This is more a reflection of their ability to level up by learning from their elders than it is a reflection of gaining special abilities simply by being in the squad.

Your mage-archmage comparison holds some merit, I think that shinigami, no matter what squad they are in, always hold the possibility to learn anything. Making seperate prestige classes focusing *only* on those specific squad's talents seems wrong still.
I think a true squad officer is formed by the feats and spells he selects and learns, as well as the class he takes. The only other option I could see is creating a pool of abilities that characters can choose from every X levels, with every power reflecting a certain squad's focus.

More powerful members of the same squad are simply higher level, and have gained more feats, ability points and class abilities. Which they may try to teach the younger shinigami. This is training, and training yields XP just like battle does, and so the younger shinigami learns new abilities (levels up).

[Xuincherguixe]

On the subject of Kurotsuchi, I'd place him at true neutral, if anything. He strikes a balance between law (following Seireitei laws) and chaos (crazy crap going on in his experiments) as well as good (helping others, to a point) and evil (is selfish about how he does things, prefers to capture and "experiment" on beings).


I could see that argument working for neutral evil, but not just plain neutral. Occasional good acts do not erase the fact he's one of the most horrible people to have ever lived... Died? However this stuff works.

The extent of his helpfulness is fairly minimal. It's like murdering a baby, then giving 5 bucks to someone on the street.

[Dante & Vergil]

Yes, I completely agree. However, that doesn't change the facts. A captain or lieutenant should not gain class abilities based on the squad's specialisation.
See it like this:
The 11th squad is a combat squad. People who feel they are combat types will try to be transferred to the 11th squad. Once there, they will have many combat-oriented shinigami to spar with and learn from. This is more a reflection of their ability to level up by learning from their elders than it is a reflection of gaining special abilities simply by being in the squad.

I am going to have to agree with this. Think of Yumichika, some of his focus does go into combat, but his true potential isn't there because his real shikai isn't combat oriented, it's kido oriented. If there were PrC like this, then they would have to be like the following.


Your mage-archmage comparison holds some merit, I think that shinigami, no matter what squad they are in, always hold the possibility to learn anything. Making seperate prestige classes focusing *only* on those specific squad's talents seems wrong still.
I think a true squad officer is formed by the feats and spells he selects and learns, as well as the class he takes. The only other option I could see is creating a pool of abilities that characters can choose from every X levels, with every power reflecting a certain squad's focus.

More powerful members of the same squad are simply higher level, and have gained more feats, ability points and class abilities. Which they may try to teach the younger shinigami. This is training, and training yields XP just like battle does, and so the younger shinigami learns new abilities (levels up).

But don't look at me to do these. You're on your own there.

[horngeek]

It has been stated that Zanpaktou are a part of the Shinigami's soul, I forget where exactly, but it has been stated.

The difference is

Quincy: steal and absorb reiatsu in order to form their weapons

Shinigami: Part of thier soul becomes their zanpaktou, but their bodies are not altered in any way

Hollow: Their body transforms to give them their powers

[Markus Darkmind]

I was wondering... if vizards and arrancars are goimg to be templates, their abilities will remain static or increase in some way, like in the serie?

[Dante & Vergil]

I was wondering... if vizards and arrancars are goimg to be templates, their abilities will remain static or increase in some way, like in the serie?

If I change them to templates, Vaizards when doning their masks, they will get a static bonus to strength, dexderity, constitution, and reiatsu and can be increased depending on how much they train with it. Arrancars will also be the same when they release, but don't have to train worth squat on there releases because it's there innate hollow that they are releasing, unless it's
ressurection segunda etapa
then it will be similar to training for bankai but probably even harder.
With the Vaizard, whenever they could train for a shikai ability, they may instead train for a hollow ability. Arrancars can get a shikai ability in place for a hollow ability in the same way a Vaizard can. Vaizards can only use hollow abilities when they have there masks on, and Arrancar can only use shikai abilities when they release.
I'm also considering a high powered hollow ability "Hyper/Super Regeneration". It will only for Adjuchas and Vasto Lordes. The Hollow regenerates any part of their body they lose immediatly after it has been removed (but can't regenerate vital organs and such as Ulquiorra said), but it may take longer depending on how strong the force was that removed it, if it was much stronger. Even if it's stronger, the hollow can spend a full-round regenerating one body part this way. When a lost piece of body regenerates this way, the hollow gains the hitpoints it lost from the attack that removed said body part. They regain hitpoints slowly if the wound is regenerating slowly as stated above. For example but with no definate numbers, if a hollow lost both legs. It took 53 damage total from those attacks. The force was sufficiantly strong enough to delay the regeneration, and delayed it for 5 rounds. If the hollow doesn't have time to waste regenerating them immediatly for a round so it's going to wait for them to regenerate. Every round it waits it gets 10.6 hitpoints back. Every decimal gets neglected until the final round.
If you don't like it like that, it rounds down then adds the decimal to following round, repeating untill it's done.
Man, I have a lot to work out with this.

[Dante & Vergil]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to put this up as well with updates.

Oh, I guess I didn't think about that. I'll try to shed some light on what training will do.
What training is all about is you spend some of you're time trying to increase your points to 45 to get Shikai (and because Shinigami/Soul Reapers don't eat or sleep most of the time, it's usually down time, if your DM permits it.) Bankai you can do the same with, but get your training points to 135. You do not have to spend consecutive time to train for these. You can stop and start again as often as you like keeping the training points you had when you last left off. (As seen by Renji when he's training for Bankai with Ichigo.) I strongly recomend you note how much time you spend doing this.
Yes I changed it for shikai but here's why.
If you wanted, you could train under dangerous excercises to obtain these things much much faster, but I haven't figured out a good way to do it. Danger in this sense means could be killed very quickly. Also the only way to do dangerous training for Bankai is through the doll Yoruichi has Ichigo use.
The reason for this is training normally is not usually dangerous like this.
What do you guys think?

[ultima22689]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to put this up as well with updates.

Yes I changed it for shikai but here's why.
If you wanted, you could train under dangerous excercises to obtain these things much much faster, but I haven't figured out a good way to do it. Danger in this sense means could be killed very quickly. Also the only way to do dangerous training for Bankai is through the doll Yoruichi has Ichigo use.
The reason for this is training normally is not usually dangerous like this.
What do you guys think?


Well, its not bad but you should consider that most people, if not everybody is not going to base a game around hundreds of years of game play, the only option to circumvent this is the doll and if thats the case you are kind of pigeon holing everyone into using the doll no matter what if they went to have a bankai. I think you should consider that the average PC is always special compared to the standard shinigami and not require it to take so long to do get to that point.

We don't know how old Renji is (I don't think) and he learned his bankai on his own considering that he has had extensive experience with his shikai, we have to realize that Ichigo had JUST learned how to do shikai only days before his doll training and learned how to use Getsuga Tenshou at will during the training.

So I think you should take that into account.

[Athildur]

It has been stated that Zanpaktou are a part of the Shinigami's soul, I forget where exactly, but it has been stated.

The difference is

Quincy: steal and absorb reiatsu in order to form their weapons

Shinigami: Part of thier soul becomes their zanpaktou, but their bodies are not altered in any way

Hollow: Their body transforms to give them their powers

Just to clarify this a bit.

Quincy don't really 'steal' spirit particles. They simply draw in 'loose' spirit particles. A weapon such as the seele schneider (as seen in the Hueco Mundo arc) is able to cut loose spirit particles, so the quincy can draw them in and use them.

If we take the Bleach movies to be canon (and I am partial to saying yes), you can see that the zanpakutou chooses the shinigami. This implies that the acquisition of a 'real' zanpakutou (as in, not an asauchi (nameless zanpakutou without a soul)) is more like a union between the soul of the zanpakutou and the shinigami's soul.

Meaning that the zanpakutou is, in essence, a seperate being, but is bonded to the shinigami.

And, indeed, Hollow simply have bodily enhancements. I think arrancar seal away their hollow powers into a seperate entity (that is still bonded to them), which transforms their own soul into a shinigami-like 'thing' which allows them to acquire more shinigami powers.

To be honest, I am still a bit confused about the whole arrancar deal. With Vizard, I can see they are more powerful than normal shinigami. After all, they are the same, except they can summon a mask to add the power of their inner hollow to their own shinigami powers.

Arrancar...well...if they seal away part of their true strength (which returns when they release their blade), then I wonder why they can become so much more powerful. I have yet to see Arrancar use any real shinigami powers (Soniido may be Shunpo-like, but a power so general as 'high-speed movement' could hardly be reserved for shinigami alone, so I'm not counting that one). For example, they do not use kidou. I wonder if they even can.

Etc and so on. I can see arrancar *are* more powerful than just any hollow, but I'm still wondering why exactly that is. The Hougyoku hardly grants power, from what I can deduce the only power it has is the ability to seperate the Hollow and Shinigami parts of the soul. (Which in turn would suggest that every soul has a shinigami and hollow part)

Questions questions questions! It's always nice to speculate :P

[Markus Darkmind]

I wonder why they can become so much more powerful. I have yet to see Arrancar use any real shinigami powers

The way I see it, Arrancar are Hollows who had reached their limit or something like that; not in the sense of becoming Vastolorde, but maybe they found it difficult to progress further....

Grimmjow for example was an Adjucas who couldn't find the way to become a Vastolorde. Now, there must be a way, but maybe Grimmjow wasn't powerful enough, and he couldn't become more powerful than that, because that was his limit. For an Adjucas, he was certanly one of the mightiest, but he couldn't seem to advance more than that.

So, there could be some kind of limit inside Hollows and Shinigami as well.

That said, removing part of his powers to become an Arrancar, Grimmjow suddenly found himself with some "dead levels" of power to fill...

So I think that, maybe, Hollows don't aquire more power becoming Arrancar, they aquire the possibility to increase it in a fastest way. What's more, they get access to Sonido and Hierro, and a almost human form (more or less, depending on the Arrancar), which is probably better for dodging blows and fighting shinigami one-on-one.

What do you think? May I be right? :smallbiggrin:


The Hougyoku hardly grants power, from what I can deduce the only power it has is the ability to seperate the Hollow and Shinigami parts of the soul.

Ehr... Maybe I remember wrong... wasn't the Hougyoku supposed to destroy the barrier between the two parts of the soul?

[Dante & Vergil]

Well, its not bad but you should consider that most people, if not everybody is not going to base a game around hundreds of years of game play, the only option to circumvent this is the doll and if thats the case you are kind of pigeon holing everyone into using the doll no matter what if they went to have a bankai. I think you should consider that the average PC is always special compared to the standard shinigami and not require it to take so long to do get to that point.

We don't know how old Renji is (I don't think) and he learned his bankai on his own considering that he has had extensive experience with his shikai, we have to realize that Ichigo had JUST learned how to do shikai only days before his doll training and learned how to use Getsuga Tenshou at will during the training.

So I think you should take that into account.

Yeah I know that players don't have time to spend doing these things, but I have written them up like that because that's how it's done in the show.
I should also state that you don't have to spend entire consecutive days, weeks and months for training for bankai, but it still doesn't fix the problem.

Also, Ichigo learned Shikai through dangerous training. Think of his training with Urahara. Urahara said that a soul's strength increases when it thinks it's in great danger, or something like that. Think about it, to reattune himself being in a konpaku state, he had to land one blow against Ururu, the little girl that works for Urahara. After that to regain his Shinigami powers he was put into an advanced process of hollowfication, hopfully forcing the Shinigami powers within him to awaken. Then he trained with Urahara, to awaken his Zanpakuto, and Urahara is a very talented scientist and he even used to be a captain. I think that's dangerous enough.
... After thinking about it, I just relised I did something stupid. The doll is not cosidered dangerous training. Any time after three days training with it, it could prove very fatal. The problem is I don't know how to do something like this. I'm going to need some help with this before I start up again. *hint**hint*

[Drolyt]

I think I can shed some light as to how Shinigami, Hollows, Quincy, Arrancar, and Vizards, etc. work... I think that all living creatures have the potential for Shinigami powers, but with a few exceptions (Ichigo and Company) these can only be accessed in the afterlife. When someone first gains access to their Shinigami powers it is like when a Saiyan first goes Super Saiyan, they gain an exponential power boost that is not flat but commensurate to the spiritual power previously possessed, which is why Ichigo was so powerful from the outset, he already possessed significant power; this point will be important later. Quincy are otherwise normal humans who learn to use the natural energy of their environment in combat. In order to draw on ever greater spiritual power without destroying their bodies they need to train their bodies, but they never gain significant personal reiatsu like Shinigami. Hollows, if I understand correctly, can never gain significant power of their own beyond what they possessed when they transformed, though at the moment they transform they receive a power boost similar to what you get when unlocking Shinigami powers; the exception is that by consuming other Hollows they can exceed this limitation. The reason we never see extraordinarily strong Hollows that aren't Menos is that only Shinigami have sufficient reiatsu for this, and Shinigami cannot become Hollows naturally; this is why Ichigo's and Kensei's inner Hollows where as strong as menos despite never eating other hollows. Now when a Hollow gains Shinigami powers and becomes an Arrancar his Reiatsu doesn't just double, it increases exponentially like it did for Ichigo in the first episode, just like a sort of Super Saiyan for Hollows. It's not entirely clear but apparently gaining Shinigami powers allows Hollows to continue growing stronger without consuming other Hollows, at least I think so. The reverse works for Vizard. As for Orihime and Chad, I think they are examples of what happens when Humans gain spiritual powers without actually unlocking their inner Shinigami or Hollow; in the case of Chad, I think his powers are only akin to a Hollow, rather than him actually being a Hollow. It might have something to do with him being half Mexican (racist Tite Kubo... :smallsmile:). As for Bounts, I have no clue.

On a side note, is anyone working on a 4e version of this? I tried and failed to read through this whole thread, so forgive me if I missed something. On that note, how legal is 4e homebrew, considering the lack of an OGL? Although I don't like 4e DnD per se, because the mechanics force you into a role without choices, I think it would work wonderful with Bleach. Especially the powers thing, characters like Ichigo and Kenpachi who don't seem to follow the rules are easy to make, just don't give them those powers! Anyway, if no one else is doing it and I'm certain it's perfectly legal I think I'll start a 4e Bleach.

[Athildur]

In regards to training for Shikai/Bankai etc taking so much time, there are two options:

- If you only allow shikai/bankai to be attained through training, meaning it will cost the character a lot of time to achieve these abilities (remembering that the training doll is actually not accessible to almost every shinigami out there).

- Regard the passage of time and training as leveling up and so grant the abilities as class abilities. This will ensure that everyone eventually gains access to the abilities.

In both cases, it is good to remember that Quests/Missions are far and few between for shinigami. As far as I can tell, they sit around and/or train almost every day, until an assignment comes along. Mostly up to GMs, it would be up to their discretion to decide how much time people have in between missions, and thereby also imply how powerful each individual could become, regardless of levels.

Imho, with systems such as a Bleach system, it's pretty much a given that GMs and players alike will have to start thinking outside the box, that is, create some material for themselves and not shy away from defining their own rules and boundaries. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

And yes, training with the doll *must* be considered dangerous training, because it is. The zanpakutou will push the shinigami to his/her limits in order to achieve bankai in a mere fraction of the time it usually takes.
However, I am inclined to believe that bankai achieved from the doll is less powerful than the one achieved through a hundred years of training, mainly because the years of training slowly attune the shinigami to the bankai, gaining an understanding and synergy with his zanpakutou. Something the doll partly achieved, but not entirely.

[Dante & Vergil]

In regards to training for Shikai/Bankai etc taking so much time, there are two options:

- If you only allow shikai/bankai to be attained through training, meaning it will cost the character a lot of time to achieve these abilities (remembering that the training doll is actually not accessible to almost every shinigami out there).

- Regard the passage of time and training as leveling up and so grant the abilities as class abilities. This will ensure that everyone eventually gains access to the abilities.

Well, I wanted to add the first as that is how the series does it. The second one is fine as that's how Void has it right now, but I didn't want the level Bankai is at to be right after level when a soul reaper learns to manifest their zanpakuto's spirit and I wanted to have the bankai doll be of actual importance with it being able to obtain bankai faster. I also wanted the doll to have a general test instead of just handing out bankai earlier. I think I'll just stick to it as Void has it at, but I'll need help with the doll. Also after learning shikai, there needs to be a test for manifesting your zanpakuto
Wait, I also didn't like how at 3rd level Shinigami gets shikai. Most Soul Reapers (I switch with the name every now and again) train in the academy first and learn what we call third level spells while there only using asuchis. I would say that's at least fifth level, and shikai should be after that. How does sixth level sound? (At the earliest I'd say.) Oh, and as a general note, if one is going to use the second one listed, they should start at least fifth level if the group is part of the 13 court guard squads.


In both cases, it is good to remember that Quests/Missions are far and few between for shinigami. As far as I can tell, they sit around and/or train almost every day, until an assignment comes along. Mostly up to GMs, it would be up to their discretion to decide how much time people have in between missions, and thereby also imply how powerful each individual could become, regardless of levels.

Very much agreed. This is what I was trying to say but didn't or couldn't. Thank you.


Imho, with systems such as a Bleach system, it's pretty much a given that GMs and players alike will have to start thinking outside the box, that is, create some material for themselves and not shy away from defining their own rules and boundaries. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Also agreed.


And yes, training with the doll *must* be considered dangerous training, because it is. The zanpakutou will push the shinigami to his/her limits in order to achieve bankai in a mere fraction of the time it usually takes.
However, I am inclined to believe that bankai achieved from the doll is less powerful than the one achieved through a hundred years of training, mainly because the years of training slowly attune the shinigami to the bankai, gaining an understanding and synergy with his zanpakutou. Something the doll partly achieved, but not entirely.

I don't know if it's weaker than if one trained with it for many years. Renji obtained a little before Ichigo did. He trained with it as long as it normally takes and it was also noted to be weak compared to Byakuya's bankai, because Byakuya had trained for many more years required. Getting bankai from the doll should not be weaker than when one gets it normally, but that's neglecting the fact that you would be getting it at an earlier level thus weaker only in that respect.

[Berserk Monk]

{Scrubbed}

[Behold_the_Void]

I see this is still going so I'll go ahead and mention that no, there is no 4e version nor will I likely be making one, but I am working on a system (linked in my signature) for anime-based games in general, which is easily doable for Bleach with few or no revisions at all. Said system is the reason I won't be doing a 4e version, I'm spending all my time on that instead.

[Krazddndfreek]

If I find time, I might start making 4e Bleach homebrew using dandwiki.com (http://www.dandwiki.com) and if anyone would like to help my profile is in my sig. ><

[ultima22689]

Just thought I would make this stuff out there, it was for a game I was in but the GM found them too complex but I think they are somewhat simple IMO, they need some editing of course because they were shot down and I didn't look them over again. Anyway, here is my ideas. If it sounds weird because many of them responses to the GM



Here goes all of it


Alright, here are my ideas, its going to seem like an incredible boost of powers at first but I think this will in general be a more balanced comparison on both ends. As it stands right now I don't think the standard way of using 3.5 doesn't accurately represents shinigami and Hollow strength however a slightly modified Gestalt could I think here is the basis of it for shinigami. This is assuming we aren't using any of the house rules.


When they first gain Shikai they gain the standard two types but instead of one ability they gain two, one for each type with restrictions, like you can't grab crackling blade and then improved crackling blade or basically grabbing two abilities in the same tree except for general however you are restricted from getting duplicates abilities from the general at first shikai level. Every shikai progression you would gain two abilities, one for each type but the same restriction applies to an extent, you can't duplicate the same general ability twice a progression.

Now for Bankai, which is where it gets a little insane. Upon 12th level a shinigami can attain a bankai and this works by using the Gestalt rules except for a couple of differences. The shinigami can only gestalt with other shinigami classes and if a Warrior shinigami has taken dedicated warrior he can only nab expert or a rehash of his own class(like double a warrior). They gain all of the level bonuses and can take bankai powers instead of the normal shikai powers, they gain two additional types or can remain in their own trees, the restriction on abilities still stands as well and the Shingami DO NOT gain HD from the bankai class. Instead a shinigami's maximum HP doubles and they are healed 1/2 off their base HP + 1/4 of their base HD ( A 16th level warrior shinigami who has just released bankai would roll 8d12 to heal).

Zanpaktou damage progression is not affected by the second class neither. Every level a shinigami goes up his bankai increases in power appropriately to correspond to that level. (so a spellcaster shinigami who just leveled to 16 would have 16 levels in bankai warrior). All zanpaktou abilities stack.


Also forgot to add the duration of Bankai, 3/4 number of HD + con mod is the number of rounds bankai can be used.


If you like the idea and/or feel it should be retooled a bit let me know so it can be improved or reworked. I think its a great idea but you never know what a bit of another opinion can do to improve that.

If you like the idea at all then I'll stat the hollow out as well as its going to involve making three new classes then some prestige classes, like Captain, Espada and Vizard, was also thinking of some other original classes and others based off of the OVAs.

Well you don't have to recalculate HP much at all, the HP would be the same as it is now but I guess you would be adding a new BAB but I'm sure many of us already do that when we do bankai with bonuses to str and dex so it would be just another bonus along with a defense bonus, so if I were lvl 16 warrior with a BAB of +16/+11/+6 and had expert bankai, when I used it I would simply add +15/+10/+5 to that to get 31/21/11 and my defense would increase from +11 to +21 and that would be it, I don't think its that complicated at all but if you don't really want it then thats cool, it was just an idea that I thought would really give a lot more flesh to the word Bankai, you know? Tell me at least what you think about the shikai buff.


Now as far as the strength and speedy thing, I agree that would be a bit unbalanced:


"You have a +30 to attack? Thats ok I have AC 60 XD"


I think something more akin to Frankto's Naruto D20 might do the trick, specifically the speed ranks, not the same amount of course but more like a +2 to attack and defense every three levels or so up to the amount of size increases the strong would receive. This would of course be circumvented if said character was immobilized or something of that sort. Maybe a +1 initiative bonus to go along as well



I think Spell casting hollow, or rather spell like ability hollows even more should gain things like an increase to a save DC abilities and a special ray touch attack or something of that sort like the warlock class does in standard DnD.

I was also thinking of consolidating gillian, Adjuchas, vasto lordes and arrancar into one and creating an 3-5 level Espada class and changing the captain class into a similar thing. I think I have a cool idea for captain bankai and Espasa ressureccion, like how Byakua in a sense had another stage to his bankai, normal free petals that raped, then the hundred swords thing. Same with Espada, how Ulquiorra does his thing and although he is the only one we have seen do it, i'm sure others can as well, at least 1-3 anyway.

we just haven't really seem the Espada get busy aside from the ones now dead in Hueco Mundo. They would gain these "soudai Bankai" and "Resureccion Magnífico" at the final level of these prestige classes, 3 or 5 and they would allow and additional half of their bankai total + 2 Bankai abilities to create a greater version of their normal bankai or some sort of odd accentuation. I think it would be cool anyhow, I think Shinsuin, Ukitake, Yamamoto of course, Aizen even, Gin possibly and Urahara may be hiding something like this along with the remaining 1-3 espada.

It would probably only last five rounds for and can only be used twice a day + modifier after a 30 minute cool down or something of that sort.


Gillian would give something like Cero as a bonus ability since it seems every single one can use cero in some way, and maybe a bonus ability limited to a pool of their respective class, like fast getting evasion, uncanny dodge and so forth each time, or spell casting getting something like spell penetration for their abilities along with a NA armor increase, probably a simple +1 at each level.

Also splitting Cero into five forms: "Gillian Cero", "Adjucha Cero", Gran Ray Cero and "Nega Cero"

So becoming and Adjuchas would give an adjuchas Cero and another related ability which ever they could be.

Becoming a Vasto Lordes would give access to Gran Ray Cero. The final Cero would be conditional I think. You would have to be an espada and reach the final level of the Espada class and take it as one of your abilities. Their power would probably be as so:

Gillian Cero: does 6d6 dmg

Adjuchas Cero: does 8d8 dmg

Gran Ray Cero: does 10d10 dmg and can be empowered by spending an action point to increase the die by up to six
and can be empowered by spending an action point to increase the die by up to six(so the max is 16d10)


Nega Cero: does 12d12 dmg and can be empowered by spending an action point to increase the die by up to six( so max would be 18d12).

I would put all of the evolutions into the class at once, so at 4th level maybe you would become a Gillian, at 8th you would be an Adjuchas and at 12th level become a vasto lordes and Arrancar would be optional at level 8 and level 12 and would decide the power of your ressureccion and what modifiers you could receive as an Arrancar.

Since Arrancar can be barely humanoid or very human in appearance depending on their power I think it would be something like this:


Adjuchas Arrancar: Adjuchas arrancar are tough and are more close to their hollow heritage and have tougher skin and strength, gaining a +2 bonus to NA and damage and a +10 to HP. They also gain Gran Ray Cero at level 12. They also gain sonido per rules in book.


Vasto Lordes Arrancar are less durable than Adjuchas but hold an inner power that is a testament to when they were vasto lordes. They gain a +1 bonus to NA and damage and +5 HP but also gain 2 additional zanpaktou abilities and 1 additional hollow ability for their ressureccion. They also gain sonido per rules in book.

Now since Arrancar wouldn't be a normal class in my vision obviously, here is how it would work. They would become a medium humanoid as normal with all of the penalties removed and the strength remaining. Gain the base bludgeoning attack and Gain Ressureccion.

The resureccion ability will give zanpaktou abilities equivalent to the amount of hollow abilities the hollow has at which ever level and would increase as they continue to grow every other level. It will also give one bankai ability on top. It would last 10 rounds or something of that manner.


Captain level shinigami


When I was a kid just having a bankai was enough to be a captain in the Gotei 13 but things change. Every generation becomes more and more powerful than the last. Soon more and more folks began having bankai like it was some child's plaything. Becoming a captain didn't mean much for awhile until he came. A shinigami who had bankai like all the rest but he was on a whole other level. A bright and fierce determination was in his eyes as he fought with a superior reiatsu that burned hollows to a crisp on its own. Can you believe that? It was insane! His shikai was strong enough to fell bankais like they were candy and made the arrancar look like an average gillian. He was hot stuff! He set the bar for the next generation and ushered in a new age in the Gotei 13 where you had to have the magic to be a captain. Thats why Kenpachi's insane ass is a captain now. What? You don't believe me then ask the Yamamoto to tell you about him, himself! - Old man in Rukonagi.


I was thinking about how Ichigo always had the cool glow in his eye anytime he was filled with a fierce determination and I think thats what sets him and other shinigami apart. They got the "touch".

This class would be available after 13th or 14th level and would introduce a standard prestige class bonus to HP, BAB, defense and the likes and would offer abilities like to add two of the action point die together instead of just choosing the highest one once a day to let the character do something amazing. (Ichigo pwning Renji in their duel and stuff like that.) At the 3rd level there would be rules for an improved bankai that enabled another stage like Byaukua's and what not.

[ultima22689]

If you hadn't guessed there was a hollow PC class made.

[Dante & Vergil]

When they first gain Shikai they gain the standard two types but instead of one ability they gain two, one for each type with restrictions, like you can't grab crackling blade and then improved crackling blade or basically grabbing two abilities in the same tree except for general however you are restricted from getting duplicates abilities from the general at first shikai level. Every shikai progression you would gain two abilities, one for each type but the same restriction applies to an extent, you can't duplicate the same general ability twice a progression.

I like this, the ideas for shikai, but I have to tell you the rest of the stuff you have is really confusing, for me at least. Also, a lot of the stuff you have for hollows is contradictory with what can and can't be had be certain class of hollows.



I was also thinking of consolidating gillian, Adjuchas, vasto lordes and arrancar into one and creating an 3-5 level Espada class and changing the captain class into a similar thing. I think I have a cool idea for captain bankai and Espasa ressureccion, like how Byakua in a sense had another stage to his bankai, normal free petals that raped, then the hundred swords thing. Same with Espada, how Ulquiorra does his thing and although he is the only one we have seen do it, i'm sure others can as well, at least 1-3 anyway.

Also splitting Cero into five forms: "Gillian Cero", "Adjucha Cero", Gran Ray Cero and "Nega Cero"

So becoming and Adjuchas would give an adjuchas Cero and another related ability which ever they could be.

Becoming a Vasto Lordes would give access to Gran Ray Cero. The final Cero would be conditional I think. You would have to be an espada and reach the final level of the Espada class and take it as one of your abilities. Their power would probably be as so:

I would put all of the evolutions into the class at once, so at 4th level maybe you would become a Gillian, at 8th you would be an Adjuchas and at 12th level become a vasto lordes and Arrancar would be optional at level 8 and level 12 and would decide the power of your ressureccion and what modifiers you could receive as an Arrancar.

The Gran Rey Cero is for the Espadas only, no matter what the rank. Cero Oscuras is for espada for when they release. And cero should scale with level, not have a flat number.
You can consolidate them, but if there is nothing to differentiate them from eachother, then why do it?


Captain level shinigami


When I was a kid just having a bankai was enough to be a captain in the Gotei 13 but things change. Every generation becomes more and more powerful than the last. Soon more and more folks began having bankai like it was some child's plaything. Becoming a captain didn't mean much for awhile until he came. A shinigami who had bankai like all the rest but he was on a whole other level. A bright and fierce determination was in his eyes as he fought with a superior reiatsu that burned hollows to a crisp on its own. Can you believe that? It was insane! His shikai was strong enough to fell bankais like they were candy and made the arrancar look like an average gillian. He was hot stuff! He set the bar for the next generation and ushered in a new age in the Gotei 13 where you had to have the magic to be a captain. Thats why Kenpachi's insane ass is a captain now. What? You don't believe me then ask the Yamamoto to tell you about him, himself! - Old man in Rukonagi.


I don't like the flavor. I love it!!!:smallbiggrin:

These are just my opinions. You can use these if you want, but don't expect me to use them as well. (Although the shikai shikai stuff will probably be used.)

[ultima22689]

I like this, the ideas for shikai, but I have to tell you the rest of the stuff you have is really confusing, for me at least. Also, a lot of the stuff you have for hollows is contradictory with what can and can't be had be certain class of hollows.




The Gran Rey Cero is for the Espadas only, no matter what the rank. Cero Oscuras is for espada for when they release. And cero should scale with level, not have a flat number.
You can consolidate them, but if there is nothing to differentiate them from eachother, then why do it?



I don't like the flavor. I love it!!!:smallbiggrin:

These are just my opinions. You can use these if you want, but don't expect me to use them as well. (Although the shikai shikai stuff will probably be used.)

Thats totally cool, use anything you want, I understand that the hollow stuff is a little contradictory but it was intended for a custom class that followed only a couple of the rules in the book. I encourage you to at least use the captain level shinigami thing however. Do you intend to make hollow PCs viable? If not I could help if you want. I'm pretty stoked for the idea of a hollow class.

[Krazddndfreek]

Now for Bankai, which is where it gets a little insane. Upon 12th level a shinigami can attain a bankai and this works by using the Gestalt rules except for a couple of differences. The shinigami can only gestalt with other shinigami classes and if a Warrior shinigami has taken dedicated warrior he can only nab expert or a rehash of his own class(like double a warrior). They gain all of the level bonuses and can take bankai powers instead of the normal shikai powers, they gain two additional types or can remain in their own trees, the restriction on abilities still stands as well and the Shingami DO NOT gain HD from the bankai class. Instead a shinigami's maximum HP doubles and they are healed 1/2 off their base HP + 1/4 of their base HD ( A 16th level warrior shinigami who has just released bankai would roll 8d12 to heal).

Zanpaktou damage progression is not affected by the second class neither. Every level a shinigami goes up his bankai increases in power appropriately to correspond to that level. (so a spellcaster shinigami who just leveled to 16 would have 16 levels in bankai warrior). All zanpaktou abilities stack.


To consildate:

You gain as many Shikai (or Bankai) abilities as you already have minus the ones gained from feats
Get two more Zanpakuto types
Get spellcasting and feat progressions of second class (gained in Bankai)
Double your max HP
Roll dice equal to half of your HD - these dice are the same kind as your original HD - and recover HP equal to the roll (this is based on the example you gave).
Zanpakuto damage does not stack
If Dedicated Warrior feat is taken, then you may only spellcasting and feat progressions from Warrior or Expert Shinigami Classes.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[ultima22689]

To consildate:

You gain as many Shikai (or Bankai) abilities as you already have minus the ones gained from feats
Get two more Zanpakuto types
Get spellcasting and feat progressions of second class (gained in Bankai)
Double your max HP
Roll dice equal to half of your HD - these dice are the same kind as your original HD - and recover HP equal to the roll (this is based on the example you gave).
Zanpakuto damage does not stack
If Dedicated Warrior feat is taken, then you may only spellcasting and feat progressions from Warrior or Expert Shinigami Classes.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, but you still don't gain a spellcasting progression, and you also get the bab, defense, and saves as well.

[ultima22689]

Here is a PDF for another set of rules for Bleach that are very complete but was discontinued, it looks almost pro and is a PDF, I forgot who made it and it is likely nowhere else on the net but I managed to retain a copy on my comp so please take a look, you might like some of the ideas in here.


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BSPDXT8M

[Krazddndfreek]

That's poopy, you gotta pay for that site.

[ultima22689]

That's poopy, you gotta pay for that site.

You don't have to pay to download.

[KnightDisciple]

You don't have to pay to download.

Pay or no, the file is apparently "temporarily unavailable".

[ultima22689]

Crap, i'll upload it somewhere else, then gimme a sec, don't go away.

[ultima22689]

Try this


http://www.mediafire.com/?2w2emoxgynn

[KnightDisciple]

Try this


http://www.mediafire.com/?2w2emoxgynn

Worked, thanks much.

[ultima22689]

Awesome, hopefully it will remain. Tell me what you think of it, hopefully it could be of some use to DandV, I didn't want it to go to waste as it looked pretty good and if it could only improve an end product with the culmination of an entire other set of rules I figured why not, so please take good look guys, I think a few things would work much better than whats already there, like the Vizard class and all of those origingal ones are pretty cool too, that file is chock full of stuff.

[Krazddndfreek]

This one is definitely more readily usable for DnD 3.5e players but I liked the shikai/bankai rules from Void's better.And buxom is a really odd feat that isn't really played upon in the anime or manga as far as I know. Also, for the squad-specific classes, this has already been gone over, so I won't go off beatin' the dead horse but I couldn't help but feel it wasn't right.

[KnightDisciple]

Plus, honestly, I think 2-3 classes for shinigami works better, if you're doing a class-based system.

Void's system, with 3 different levels of attack bonus, kido casting, speed, etc., feels closer to what we see on-screen.

For example, Byakuya Kuchiki would, in my view, have full BAB, or nearly so. He's first and foremost a fighter (albeit with the TK'ed blades), who's also decent at Kido.

On the flip side is Rukia, who's only recently shown growing skills in swordsmanship, and is instead great at kido.

I'm not saying the PDF is bad, but I think the system in this thread gives more flexibility and options.

But really, the more I look at the setting and characters, the more a point-based system seems to perhaps be the better choice. With the 3 class paradigm following behind fairly close.

[ultima22689]

Yeah, I prefer the void's system, I just figured there were a lot of good things that could contribute to version that D&V is working on.

[Athildur]

For example, Byakuya Kuchiki would, in my view, have full BAB, or nearly so. He's first and foremost a fighter (albeit with the TK'ed blades), who's also decent at Kido.

I disagree. Of all the captains I've seen battle so far, Byakuya is probably the captain that has the best balance between all shinigami combat styles. He is extremely proficient in hohou (he has an excellent shunpo and has other very good abilities regarding speed and movement), as far as I've seen has a very good skill in kidou, and aside from all that also has great skill with his zanpakuto, both in it's sealed form and in it's shikai/bankai forms.

I'll agree with you on Rukia though. She has a big focus on kidou. It is most definately her strong point, I will agree, whereas her Hohou is probably subpar, and her swordsmanship is poor, but improving.

[Markus Darkmind]

Byakuya is probably the captain that has the best balance between all shinigami combat styles.

Yes, I think that's right... He is able to cast level 60 kidou without incantation, and he's got an excellent level of shumpo; in swordmanship he's good, but he's bettter at using his released sword's long range attacks....
I think the expert shinigami suits him just fine.
The only problem is he once used a level 89 bakudou, while the class in void's system can cast kidou up until 6th level (or, n° 60 in bleach language)....
Maybe the kidou system should be revised a little....

[Athildur]

Alteration of that basic system would probably not be good. One has to remember that kidou can quickly become overpowering, especially when you can get it to high levels early on. I don't think there is an easy, if there is a way at all, to somehow remake kidou to allow byakuya to have those skills while not making kidou an entirely overpowering ability.

However, I think a captain class might not be a bad move. To signify the ability to train and learn from the best of soul society (meaning the other captains, but also access to most research data and reading material), a captain class could allow for any character to expand one or more abilities by choice, rather than go in a straight line like the basic classes would.

For example, Byakuya's levels in captain could raise his skill in kidou exclusively while his expert levels cover his powerful shunpo and adequate swordsmanship.

[ErrantX]

I think that Athildur has the right idea. A Captain is shown to be significantly stronger than even their lieutenants, so I think a Captain class would be a great way to represent it.

-X

[ultima22689]

I knew it was a good idea :)

[Shinobi_Guyver]

Wouldn't it make more sense to have a Captain Prestige Class instead of a normal class? :|

[ultima22689]

Wouldn't it make more sense to have a Captain Prestige Class instead of a normal class? :|

Thats what we were all thinking i'm sure, at least I HOPE thats what we all thought.

[Athildur]

Pardon my omission of the word prestige. I did not dare to think anyone would get it into their heads that it could be a normal class :P.

[ultima22689]

Hey, I was thinking about the Kidou issue, what if it were handled like a warlock does evocations for spell like abilities? I think it would suit kidou much better since they aren't really spells that do spell things, they are more like highly honed manipulation of reiatsu or something.

[Shinobi_Guyver]

Pardon my omission of the word prestige. I did not dare to think anyone would get it into their heads that it could be a normal class :P.
Just thought I'd get that cleared up for anyone else who might come across this thread.


Hey, I was thinking about the Kidou issue, what if it were handled like a warlock does evocations for spell like abilities? I think it would suit kidou much better since they aren't really spells that do spell things, they are more like highly honed manipulation of reiatsu or something.
What part of kidou isn't a "spell that does spell things" ? To use kidou, you say a chant (can be omitted), followed by the kidou type/number/name and then it creates a clearly defined effect. Sounds like a spell to me.

[ultima22689]

Just thought I'd get that cleared up for anyone else who might come across this thread.


What part of kidou isn't a "spell that does spell things" ? To use kidou, you say a chant (can be omitted), followed by the kidou type/number/name and then it creates a clearly defined effect. Sounds like a spell to me.

Actually the incantation can be omitted. Byakua does it all the time. So has Aizen, in fact they are revered by Urahara's buddy because they can cast very high level Kidou without incantations.

Oh, i mistaked that can as a can't. Anywho, how can they not be desribed a spell like abilities. Take a DnD warlock, take away all of the DND stuff, all the mechanics and make a movie about him, he would look like he is casting spells too.

[Athildur]

Imho, kidou incantations mostly resemble psionics.

The user takes hold of his own internal power reserves, focuses and shapes them, then releases it. I can only surmise that gestures help focus the attack whereas incantations somehow provide some sort of concentration focus through which the shaping of spirit energy becomes easier or something.

[ultima22689]

Imho, kidou incantations mostly resemble psionics.

The user takes hold of his own internal power reserves, focuses and shapes them, then releases it. I can only surmise that gestures help focus the attack whereas incantations somehow provide some sort of concentration focus through which the shaping of spirit energy becomes easier or something.

Yeah, the void used psionics I think for Kidou. They just need some intense work. Kind of zaps the magic out of bleach when you are a captain and someone else casts dominate mind on you.

[Athildur]

Well, that's because there *is* no dominate mind in Bleach, as far as we know.

Imho, I'd really tone down the list of spells available to what seems manageable with kidou, for as far as we have seen. That would immediately eliminate almost all illusions from the list, for example.

[ultima22689]

Well, that's because there *is* no dominate mind in Bleach, as far as we know.

Imho, I'd really tone down the list of spells available to what seems manageable with kidou, for as far as we have seen. That would immediately eliminate almost all illusions from the list, for example.

Indeed, I wholly agree. All we have seen Kidou do is long range teleportation, healing, damaging blasts, sealing, shields, and negating other kidou.

[Tobi_goodboy]

I've been looking through the rulebook compilation for this, and there seems to be no vasto lorde skill setup.

also, adjuchas are incapable of becoming vasto lordes if any part of them is eaten by another hollow, ever (according to the manga, at least).

on a similar note, vasto lordes lose the need to eat other hollows, so i dont think the regression rules aply to them.

and i dont see the point of the 'If this ends while you are still in the air you begin falling immediately.' if everyone can fly (or float, at least)
without conscious effort.

i apologize if this seems rude in any way.

[Alcopop]

just a few ideas for more Hollow Abilities,

Increased Reach: The hollow can extend its attack in some way. The hollow gains an extra 5 foot of reach for one existing attack type (claws, bite, tail, ect). This ability may be taken multiple times, its effects stack.
(i.e. luppi)

Breath Weapon: The hollow gains a breath weapon. This attack is a 30ft cone that takes a standard action to use and deals d6s equal to one half the hollows HD (reflex for half). This attack can be used once every 1d4 rounds. The hollow chooses the energy type upon first taking this ability. Every time after the first that this ability is taken the hollow gains a new breath weapon or increases an existing breath weapons damage increases by 1d6 its DC increases by 2 or its range by 30ft.

Projectile Barb: The hollow gains the ability to fire a projectile barb or spine from it’s body. This attack takes a standard action and is a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 50ft. Its damage is equivalent to the hollows claw attack (Arrancar may use zanpakutou damage if desired) plus con modifier. This ability may be taken multiple times, each time adds another barb every time the attack is used, these barbs may have seperate targets.

I also feel that Hollows should have some kind of poison option too, as it suits there style. Though i'm not sure how it'd work.


Rules wise, I noticed Rake as an Adjucha Hollow ability currently doesn't make any sense;


Rake: This gives the Adjucha a rake attack. Whenever it hits with at least two of its natural weapons, it gains an additional rake attack that deals damage equal to its claw’s base damage+1/2 its strength modifier (rounded down) and is made at its highest base attack bonus. This ability may be taken multiple times; each time gives an additional rake attack.
(weak extra attack with conditions)

Extra Limb: The hollow gains an extra limb. They can gain another leg, increasing their movement by 5 feet per extra leg, an extra arm, giving them another claw attack, a tail, giving them a tail attack, or a wing. One wing gives the hollow a wing buffet attack. Two wings also grant the hollow the ability to fly at twice their land speed with poor maneuverability.
(extra attack, bam!)

Why would a hollow ever take rake over extra limb?


Another thing I noticed, is that without releasing arrancar are often worse then regular hollows of their level, this just doesn't feel right. Infact, an unreleased arrancar is just about the weakest thing of it's level. Shinigami can at least fall back on kidoe and their (awesome) shikai's.

Say for instance I made a hollow that only took increase size and extra limb abilities. as soon as I go arrancar, without releasing, i'm screwed!

[ultima22689]

just a few ideas for more Hollow Abilities,

Increased Reach: The hollow can extend its attack in some way. The hollow gains an extra 5 foot of reach for one existing attack type (claws, bite, tail, ect). This ability may be taken multiple times, its effects stack.
(i.e. luppi)

Breath Weapon: The hollow gains a breath weapon. This attack is a 30ft cone that takes a standard action to use and deals d6s equal to one half the hollows HD (reflex for half). This attack can be used once every 1d4 rounds. The hollow chooses the energy type upon first taking this ability. Every time after the first that this ability is taken the hollow gains a new breath weapon or increases an existing breath weapons damage increases by 1d6 its DC increases by 2 or its range by 30ft.

Projectile Barb: The hollow gains the ability to fire a projectile barb or spine from it’s body. This attack takes a standard action and is a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 50ft. Its damage is equivalent to the hollows claw attack (Arrancar may use zanpakutou damage if desired) plus con modifier. This ability may be taken multiple times, each time adds another barb every time the attack is used, these barbs may have seperate targets.

I also feel that Hollows should have some kind of poison option too, as it suits there style. Though i'm not sure how it'd work.


Rules wise, I noticed Rake as an Adjucha Hollow ability currently doesn't make any sense;


Rake: This gives the Adjucha a rake attack. Whenever it hits with at least two of its natural weapons, it gains an additional rake attack that deals damage equal to its claw’s base damage+1/2 its strength modifier (rounded down) and is made at its highest base attack bonus. This ability may be taken multiple times; each time gives an additional rake attack.
(weak extra attack with conditions)

Extra Limb: The hollow gains an extra limb. They can gain another leg, increasing their movement by 5 feet per extra leg, an extra arm, giving them another claw attack, a tail, giving them a tail attack, or a wing. One wing gives the hollow a wing buffet attack. Two wings also grant the hollow the ability to fly at twice their land speed with poor maneuverability.
(extra attack, bam!)

Why would a hollow ever take rake over extra limb?


Another thing I noticed, is that without releasing arrancar are often worse then regular hollows of their level, this just doesn't feel right. Infact, an unreleased arrancar is just about the weakest thing of it's level. Shinigami can at least fall back on kidoe and their (awesome) shikai's.

Say for instance I made a hollow that only took increase size and extra limb abilities. as soon as I go arrancar, without releasing, i'm screwed!

You can replace all of those improved size abilities with others at the time of becoming an adjuchas or arrancar with others and keep the bonuses you gained from it. The arrancar, vizard and captain classes are incomplete from what I remember considering they don't have any BAB, HD, skill points or defense bonus. Arrancar can also still use their hollow abilities unreleased that didn't alter their body in anyway also.(I.E extra limb)

IMO the arrancar should be handled more like a bankai and condesned into a class feature for hollows intead of another class altogether.

[Tobi_goodboy]

another small nitpick:
Gran Rey Cero: The power of an Adjucha’s cero is far greater than that of a normal Gillian’s. This advanced ability raises the damage of a cero to 2d6 per hit die. This ability may be taken by Vizard.
the only one whose seen using a GRCero is grimmjow, but he's also an arrancar--he even stated it as one of the things aizen forbid the espada from using inside the dome.

[ultima22689]

another small nitpick:
the only one whose seen using a GRCero is grimmjow, but he's also an arrancar--he even stated it as one of the things aizen forbid the espada from using inside the dome.

Yep, that was noted earlier and I think D&V said he was going to make that adjustment.

[Tobi_goodboy]

Yep, that was noted earlier and I think D&V said he was going to make that adjustment.

gotcha, and a possible name for the armor-bonus-for-hollows-feat would be hierro (the passive reiatsu-armor that hollow/arrancar have. nnoitora's heirro is the strongest among the espada, for example)
-they could gain +1 to AC/level and take an 'improved hierro' feat to up the bonus, or something.

EDIT: i also forgot to add a question about seele schneider: '...If used as an arrow, the Seele Schneider is destroyed if it hits the target.'

in the series and manga the SS' used in the explosion against szayel and the ones shot at/into cirucci (the privaron espada that ishida fights in the HM arc) were simply picked up and put back into his belt after the battles, completely undamaged.

[ultima22689]

gotcha, and a possible name for the armor-bonus-for-hollows-feat would be hierro (the passive reiatsu-armor that hollow/arrancar have. nnoitora's heirro is the strongest among the espada, for example)
-they could gain +1 to AC/level and take an 'improved hierro' feat to up the bonus, or something.

EDIT: i also forgot to add a question about seele schneider: '...If used as an arrow, the Seele Schneider is destroyed if it hits the target.'

in the series and manga the SS' used in the explosion against szayel and the ones shot at/into cirucci (the privaron espada that ishida fights in the HM arc) were simply picked up and put back into his belt after the battles, completely undamaged.

In the game i'm in I play a hollow, we made a class for it and we gain natural armor which is pretty much the same thing as hierro. So yeah, that would work perfect.

I think what that means is that the spirit particles are dispersed. Perhaps they should be useable over and over again but must be imbued by the PC.

Quincy need A LOT of love anyway, they are really underpowered as of now.

[Alcopop]

In the game i'm in I play a hollow, we made a class for it and we gain natural armor which is pretty much the same thing as hierro. So yeah, that would work perfect.

Why a class for hollows? I think the HD suit perfectly.

And as far as quincys go I think they need more defence when it comes to final form. or a release that doesn't require them to almost die. Something like the abililty to use a lesser version of final form x times per day at from level 12.

[Tobi_goodboy]

In the game i'm in I play a hollow, we made a class for it and we gain natural armor which is pretty much the same thing as hierro. So yeah, that would work perfect.

I think what that means is that the spirit particles are dispersed. Perhaps they should be useable over and over again but must be imbued by the PC.

Quincy need A LOT of love anyway, they are really underpowered as of now.

i assume thay'd be used up, but seeing as quincy's use ambient spirit particles for most if not all of their attacks, wouldn't a recharge duration fit better?

[Tobi_goodboy]

Why a class for hollows? I think the HD suit perfectly.

And as far as quincys go I think they need more defence when it comes to final form. or a release that doesn't require them to almost die. Something like the abililty to use a lesser version of final form x times per day at from level 12.

+1 AC per 1-2 HD would do just as good (i think)

[Tobi_goodboy]

and a possible item/artifact addition: the flesh-glove-capsule-thing that aizen used to remove the hougyoku from rukia's body (see chapter 176)

it can 'open up' any spiritual matter and insert things into it for storage (i'd assume this is how urahara implanted the hougyoku into the gigai in the first place), or remove stored from inside of something (like aizen did). you can turn any large object into a storage container for any object that could theoretically fit inside of it--like a bag of holding, only more complicated

again, if any of this steps a little too far, or seems rude, i apologize beforehand.

[Alcopop]

+1 AC per 1-2 HD would do just as good (i think)

Ahh, hollows have too low AC?

[Tobi_goodboy]

Ahh, hollows have too low AC?

no such thing as too much AC, i say!

well...*shudder* nevermind.

'Armor Class: Natural Armor is equal to ½ the Hollow’s HD, rounded up.'
+1 AC per 2 HD is about the same,
as 1 HD gets +1 AC due to .5 rounding up, 2HD gets +1 as 1 is half, 3 gets +2 due to 1.5 rounding up, 4= +2, 5= +3, 6= +3, 7= +4, 8= +4, etc. etc.

[ultima22689]

There is a hollow class because the classes already there are meant for shinigami. The hollow class we've been using works perfectly for the hollow.

[Tobi_goodboy]

There is a hollow class because the classes already there are meant for shinigami. The hollow class we've been using works perfectly for the hollow.

good to know, as we (by this i mean my friends and i) are still in the planning stages of playing a game with this--albeit ever-so-slightly-altered--setup .

[Alcopop]

is Void still working on this?

[ultima22689]

is Void still working on this?

Nope D&V is doing a massive update on it though, I guess he will release it sooner or later. I'm a tad worried considering he hasn't posted here for a long time, he usually makes a post every now and then.

[Tobi_goodboy]

Indeed, I wholly agree. All we have seen Kidou do is long range teleportation, healing, damaging blasts, sealing, shields, and negating other kidou.

or add an illusion-type zanpakuto, along the lines of aizen's.

[Suzuro]

Maybe it's just me, but I see hierro (That's right, correct?) As damage reduction more than an AC bonus. It seems to either completely negate the damage (Has more DR than the damage did) or reduce it (typical DR). An AC bonus just woudn't seem to work because it's either you hit or you don't.

Just my two cents, of course, I don't think I've read bleach since he fought that dude who ate his servants.....I can't even remember names anymore.


-Suzuro

[Athildur]

I disagree. At least partly.

I think both AC bonuses and DR would work. After all, 'armor' doesn't really prevent you, as a whole, from getting hit. That is to say, if someone attacks you, they may hit 'you' (your chain shirt, for example). In this case, no damage is cause because the armor either deflects the attack or absorbs enough of the impact for it to be harmless.

The same would be true for hierro. I can see that DR would have the same kind of effect, but mechanicswise I am much in favor of AC. After all, in a system where nobody really wears armor, and attack bonuses do always rise with BaB and other increases in power, where does AC come into play?
It should not be reduced to a useless mechanic that's only there because the core rules define it. Instead, it should be as much of an issue in combat as it is in normal D&D. The AC boost to Arrancar would make them harder to damage by making it harder to really 'hit' them.

On the other hand, in the anime it is more akin to DR, since it usually takes an extremely powerful attack of sorts to be able to damage certain arrancar, which would reflect a very high damage reduction.

My preference goes to an AC bonus. For one, they are less powerful, and as I have said before it would at least make sure that AC does not become obsolete.

[ultima22689]

I disagree. At least partly.

I think both AC bonuses and DR would work. After all, 'armor' doesn't really prevent you, as a whole, from getting hit. That is to say, if someone attacks you, they may hit 'you' (your chain shirt, for example). In this case, no damage is cause because the armor either deflects the attack or absorbs enough of the impact for it to be harmless.

The same would be true for hierro. I can see that DR would have the same kind of effect, but mechanicswise I am much in favor of AC. After all, in a system where nobody really wears armor, and attack bonuses do always rise with BaB and other increases in power, where does AC come into play?
It should not be reduced to a useless mechanic that's only there because the core rules define it. Instead, it should be as much of an issue in combat as it is in normal D&D. The AC boost to Arrancar would make them harder to damage by making it harder to really 'hit' them.

On the other hand, in the anime it is more akin to DR, since it usually takes an extremely powerful attack of sorts to be able to damage certain arrancar, which would reflect a very high damage reduction.

My preference goes to an AC bonus. For one, they are less powerful, and as I have said before it would at least make sure that AC does not become obsolete.

Indeed, hence the term "Natural" Armor. Its exactly what arrancar have, Kenpachi had a hard time cutting into Noitorra's skin for a moment but he had no problem hitting him. Damage reduction reduces the amount of damage you take, you would have to have to have a HIGH DR to stop a 16+ captain from doing damage to you. If he was shot with a sealing kidou or some kind of special effect attack (Touch Attack) then his NA doesn't come into play.

[Dante & Vergil]

I know I haven't posted in a while, but I'm still alive and I am still trying to update the system as best I can which to be honest, isn't saying much.:smallredface:


Indeed, hence the term "Natural" Armor. Its exactly what arrancar have, Kenpachi had a hard time cutting into Noitorra's skin for a moment but he had no problem hitting him. Damage reduction reduces the amount of damage you take, you would have to have to have a HIGH DR to stop a 16+ captain from doing damage to you. If he was shot with a sealing kidou or some kind of special effect attack (Touch Attack) then his NA doesn't come into play.

When it comes to Bakudo spells, yes that's how it works, but the same cannot be said about Hado spells. If Nnoitra was hit by #31 Shakkaho, he would be probably shug it off, even if it's a touch attack, because that's how Hierro works. This is what the Reiatsu system is going to try to cover.

[ultima22689]

I know I haven't posted in a while, but I'm still alive and I am still trying to update the system as best I can which to be honest, isn't saying much.:smallredface:



When it comes to Bakudo spells, yes that's how it works, but the same cannot be said about Hado spells. If Nnoitra was hit by #31 Shakkaho, he would be probably shug it off, even if it's a touch attack, because that's how Hierro works. This is what the Reiatsu system is going to try to cover.

Good to know you're still around.

[Suzuro]

Fair enough, I understand where you're coming from with the Natural Armor now, color me enlightened.


-Suzuro

[Alcopop]

Hey D&V just a few issues i've noticed with the current system. You might of already have fixed them but I thought I should bring them up anyhow.

Arrancar;



Zanpakutou Ability

An Arrancar may gain shikai abilities as if they were shinigami. These can only be used while in Released form. Like a Shinigami, Arrancar zanpakutou have two inherent types (though this can be increased through the use of feats). Treat zanpakutou base damage as that of a Warrior Shinigami of equivalent level as the arrancar has hit dice. Arrancar gain use of Bankai when their Arrancar level reaches 12. They also gain use of their Final Shikai at 11th level, and Final Bankai at 20th level.

Bankai? what? this doesn't make sence at all. Resurrección: Segunda Etapa, (the second release) should be here in place.



Sonido:

Arrancar gain Sonido at 2nd level, and every even level thereafter. Sonido progresses and is functionally identical to Shunpo. In addition, the Arrancar adds ½ their hollow hit dice for purposes of determining sonido distance. Sonido can be used to qualify for shunpo-based feats.

Unfortunatly this means that arrancar start very much behind shinigami when it comes to shumpo/sonido and never really catch up. We've seen fraccion keep up with even soi fongs speed.
Fix:
I think something like treating arrancar HD as warrior shinigami levels to determine sonidos speed/distance would be best here (maybe some way of upgrading it to expert equivelent too)


This isn't really an issue but more of an idea with arrancar;

Upon entering the arrancar class an arrancar can choose to trade in hollow abilities for additional zampakuto abilities. These abilities can still only be accessed through release. The arranacar may not convert more then half his existing hollow abilities.

Some more arrancar abilities (as previosly posted)

Increased Reach: The hollow can extend its attack in some way. The hollow gains an extra 5 foot of reach for one existing attack type (claw, bite, tail ect). This ability may be taken multiple times, its effects stack.

Breath Weapon: The hollow gains a breath weapon. This attack deals d6s equal to one half the hollows HD and can be used once every 1d4 rounds. A reflex save is allowed for half (DC 10 + Half HD + Con). The hollow chooses the energy type upon taking this ability the first time. Every time after the first that this ability is taken the hollow gains a new breath weapon or an existing breath weapons damage increases by 1d6 and its DC increases by 1.

Projectile Barb: The hollow gains the ability to fire a projectile barb or spine from it’s body. This attack takes a standard action and is a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 50ft. Its damage is equivalent to the hollows claw attack (Arrancar may use zanpakutou damage if desired) plus con modifier. This ability may be taken multiple times, each time adds another barb every time the attack is used (to be resolved separately).


and lastly as mentioned in a previose post Rake doesn't work as an Adjucha ability. Maybe giving it double str damage or something would be good.



Skills;



Intimidate: In addition to its normal function, Intimidate allows you to overwhelm foes with your reiatsu. A reiatsu surge can be initiated at any time as a standard action. Make an intimidate check against your foe, who makes either an opposed Intimidate or Level check (their choice). If you succeed, your opponent takes a -2 penalty on all rolls for as many rounds as you won the check by. Also, for every five points you exceed their roll by, they take another, cumulative -2 penalty. If they defeat your roll, they throw off your surge by pushing back with their own reiatsu, causing you to become dazed for rounds equal to ½ the amount they defeated your surge by rounded down, to a minimum of 1.
Easly broken, my friend pointed out using shikia and bankia you could give your self massive bonuses to this roll (something like +80)

Fix:
Can only be used against opponents of lower HD.



Shikia and Bankia;


Defensive Surge: As an immediate action in response to attack, you may gain +4 to your AC against that attack. This ability may be taken multiple times, each time adds +4 to the save bonus.

Greater Defensive Surge: This requires Defensive Surge and at least two other barrier abilities to take. Instead of lasting for one attack, Defensive Surge lasts until the end of the attack action targeting you.

Swift Reflexes: As an immediate action in response to an attack that requires a reflex save, you may gain +4 to your reflex save against that attack. This ability may be taken multiple times, each time adds +4 to the save bonus.

Indomitable Will: As an immediate action in response to an attack that requires a will save, you may gain +4 to your will save against that attack. This ability may be taken multiple times, each time adds +4 to the save bonus.

Mighty Fortitude: As an immediate action in response to an attack that requires a fortitude save, you may gain +4 to your fortitude save against that attack. This ability may be taken multiple times, each time adds +4 to the save bonus.


It never mentions how frequently these abilities can be used. once every 1d4? once per encounter?


hokay, thats it for now.

[Tobi_goodboy]

another thing: is there a way of defining an adjuchas look? most of them are more bestial than human (grimmjow, D. roy, and crew were all animal-y when shown in grimmjow's past)

would that be the player's choice or the DM's? though seeing as most beings cant really choose how or what they are created as...

i seem to have answered my own question here...

[ultima22689]

another thing: is there a way of defining an adjuchas look? most of them are more bestial than human (grimmjow, D. roy, and crew were all animal-y when shown in grimmjow's past)

would that be the player's choice or the DM's? though seeing as most beings cant really choose how or what they are created as...

i seem to have answered my own question here...

Well in the game i'm in where i'm playing a hollow we simply decide what kind of hollow we want to be, i'm a wolf, one is a dragon and the other is just a demon thing. Its worked out pretty well so far and when the time comes we will do our arrancar thing.

[Alcopop]

another thing: is there a way of defining an adjuchas look? most of them are more bestial than human (grimmjow, D. roy, and crew were all animal-y when shown in grimmjow's past)

would that be the player's choice or the DM's? though seeing as most beings cant really choose how or what they are created as...

i seem to have answered my own question here...


Yeah don't take that away from the players, sure people can't decide what they look like but hell, this is roleplaying not real life. playing your own bleach character is pretty much the draw for this system, that includes visuals. Removing that control from the player can only hurt the enjoyment of the game, so why do it? it's not like we should be hitting for realism anyway. its bleach!

[ultima22689]

Yeah don't take that away from the players, sure people can't decide what they look like but hell, this is roleplaying not real life. playing your own bleach character is pretty much the draw for this system, that includes visuals. Removing that control from the player can only hurt the enjoyment of the game, so why do it? it's not like we should be hitting for realism anyway. its bleach!

Indeed, its not RP if you don't define your character.

[Tobi_goodboy]

Indeed, its not RP if you don't define your character.

too true, but is there a way to... agh, it's hard to put into words correctly!
how would one go about applying animal templates to a character (for an adjuchas's form), or splicing said template into a pseudo-human form for an arrancar's release/ressurecion (there's an apostrophe somewhere in there >_>)?

[Athildur]

Adjuchas can have a form entirely animalistic, so if you want that get the template off the base animal, increase the stats, bab, saves etc accordingly, add in cero (at the very least, maybe some other abilities) and done.

First, since a resurreccion should be the same as a shikai, base it's power off that. Most likely all resurreccion powers are limited to increases in ability scores, skills, saves, speed and/or strength, and the addition of natural weapons and perhaps a few special attacks (for example, Halibel's ability to control water or King Barragan's abilities).

[Tobi_goodboy]

Adjuchas can have a form entirely animalistic, so if you want that get the template off the base animal, increase the stats, bab, saves etc accordingly, add in cero (at the very least, maybe some other abilities) and done.

First, since a resurreccion should be the same as a shikai, base it's power off that. Most likely all resurreccion powers are limited to increases in ability scores, skills, saves, speed and/or strength, and the addition of natural weapons and perhaps a few special attacks (for example, Halibel's ability to control water or King Barragan's abilities).

a boosted base animal template would work well for an adjuchas, but arrancar's abilities are sealed when in a normal state--leading me to believe that besides the boostie from becoming an arrancar, their template would shift back to their adjuchas/vasto lorde form's original when they activate their resurreccion (with increased stats, skills, etc. of course)...

this is based off the fact that resurreccion isnt a powerup (well it is, but you get the point >_>), its just them returning to their natural state

[ultima22689]

a boosted base animal template would work well for an adjuchas, but arrancar's abilities are sealed when in a normal state--leading me to believe that besides the boostie from becoming an arrancar, their template would shift back to their adjuchas/vasto lorde form's original when they activate their resurreccion (with increased stats, skills, etc. of course)...

this is based off the fact that resurreccion isnt a powerup (well it is, but you get the point >_>), its just them returning to their natural state

I think the rules in the book work fine along with the arrancar class, it just needs to be completed, ala BAB, saves, defense, etc, i'll post that class that was made so the talk of animal templates and such can end.

[ultima22689]

Download that file



http://www.2shared.com/file/6109782/ddf46b93/That_class.html

[Athildur]

No offense, but that is one ****ty site. Can't even download it -.-

[Tobi_goodboy]

try using megaupload to set it up, then post the link for the file so we can get it.

i 'send' games to my friends this way and it works okay i guess--but this is slightly off-topic, sorry.

[ultima22689]

try using megaupload to set it up, then post the link for the file so we can get it.

i 'send' games to my friends this way and it works okay i guess--but this is slightly off-topic, sorry.

Here you go



http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Z75KE0RG

[Tobi_goodboy]

Here you go



http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Z75KE0RG

got it, thanks muchly

[Tobi_goodboy]

i wonder if anyone'll make character sheets for the various vaizards (shinji hirako and all of the rest)

[ultima22689]

i wonder if anyone'll make character sheets for the various vaizards (shinji hirako and all of the rest)

Maybe so, I might make them once D&V releases his version whenever that should be.

[Prplcheez]

Zanpakutou Types: Each zanpakutou has two types which governs its abilities. Here are the types that will be used as themes for creating ability sets for people to use when constructing their zanpakutou.

I'm a bit confused about a couple of things involving Zanpakuto types. Are the two types directly chosen by the player, or does the GM choose them?


To craft a Bankai base, count the number of shikai abilities you possess. Then, select one additional type (Summoning is the most common choice for this type. This applies even to those who have taken the Specialized Zanpakutou feat). Then, double the amount of shikai abilities you naturally possess

When doubling the amount of shikai abilities, does that double the actual QUANTITY, and you get to choose more, or does it just double the potency of each ability you currently possess?

Also, what are Augments?

[ultima22689]

I'm a bit confused about a couple of things involving Zanpakuto types. Are the two types directly chosen by the player, or does the GM choose them?



When doubling the amount of shikai abilities, does that double the actual QUANTITY, and you get to choose more, or does it just double the potency of each ability you currently possess?

Also, what are Augments?

Augments are for the human augment class, YOU choose what your zanapktou types are, takes a ton of the originality out of it otherwise.

When you gain bankai it doubles the AMOUNT of shikai abilities you have so if you have 14 shikai abilities you take your shikai abilities and then add 14 more abilities of your choice between shikai and bankai abilities.

[Tobi_goodboy]

Augments are for the human augment class, YOU choose what your zanapktou types are, takes a ton of the originality out of it otherwise.

When you gain bankai it doubles the AMOUNT of shikai abilities you have so if you have 14 shikai abilities you take your shikai abilities and then add 14 more abilities of your choice between shikai and bankai abilities.

im supposing the same applies for arrancar and their resureccion (sp?)

and what exactly would apply for resureccion dobla (or whatever its called; the 'second' release that ulquiorra used)?

also good to see you prpl

[ultima22689]

im supposing the same applies for arrancar and their resureccion (sp?)

and what exactly would apply for resureccion dobla (or whatever its called; the 'second' release that ulquiorra used)?

also good to see you prpl

Yeah, as for the second release I don't see any logical reason it wouldn't but I can't confirm that as the current available version doesn't have any of that stuff in it and I don't think anyone has seen D&V version so we just have to wait till he lets us have it.

[Glitch Override]

I was curious if anyone has dabbled with the idea of introducing talents, like D20 Mod, into the Bleach D20 system?

[Prplcheez]

im supposing the same applies for arrancar and their resureccion (sp?)

and what exactly would apply for resureccion dobla (or whatever its called; the 'second' release that ulquiorra used)?

also good to see you prpl

Hi tobi

Anyway, I think something custom would apply for the "Resurrección: Segunda Etapa",

Being as only one Arrancar has/had the ability to use it. Similar rules would also probably apply to Ichigo's full hollow form.

EDIT: On further research, I've found that it is commonly "presumed as the Arrancar equivalent of a Shinigami's Bankai.", so it may well be fair under general Bankai rules.

[Tobi_goodboy]

Hi tobi

Anyway, I think something custom would apply for the "Resurrección: Segunda Etapa",

Being as only one Arrancar has/had the ability to use it. Similar rules would also probably apply to Ichigo's full hollow form.

EDIT: On further research, I've found that it is commonly "presumed as the Arrancar equivalent of a Shinigami's Bankai.", so it may well be fair under general Bankai rules.

i note one problem with that: most arrancar's release is enough to stave off a shinigami's bankai at the least and surpass it at the most. Resurrección: Segunda Etapa is a very large step above that, so wouldnt it be better than bankai?

[ultima22689]

i note one problem with that: most arrancar's release is enough to stave off a shinigami's bankai at the least and surpass it at the most. Resurrección: Segunda Etapa is a very large step above that, so wouldnt it be better than bankai?

In game mechanics that actually isn't true.

[Prplcheez]

i note one problem with that: most arrancar's release is enough to stave off a shinigami's bankai at the least and surpass it at the most. Resurrección: Segunda Etapa is a very large step above that, so wouldnt it be better than bankai?

There's also the fact that by and large, Arrancar are far more powerful than Shinigami. I think it is seen as the same factor of increased power. As most Arrancar can hold of a Shinigami's shikai without breaking a sweat, the original release is like their version of shikai and generally buffs them up to a Shinigami's bankai level. The second release puts them farther above that.

[ultima22689]

There's also the fact that by and large, Arrancar are far more powerful than Shinigami. I think it is seen as the same factor of increased power. As most Arrancar can hold of a Shinigami's shikai without breaking a sweat, the original release is like their version of shikai and generally buffs them up to a Shinigami's bankai level. The second release puts them farther above that.

once again, game mechanics wise it doesn't work out that way.

[Athildur]

Think of it, then, as the following:

Arrancar gain Resurreccion and the Segunda Etapa at the same levels as Shinigami gain Shikai and bankai.

However, Arrancar take a lot of monster levels before that, meaning that when they attain their Resurreccion, they're more than likely at a level/ECL where the shinigami has gained their bankai.

So, when the arrancar gets the segunda etapa, he is far beyond that level.

I personally cannot see Hollow levels as class levels. Hollow are a race. They do not train and do not gain abilities based on learning and training. Their abilities are determined by their bodies alone. At least until they are Adjuchas.

Where shinigami work from a powerless platform (a normal plus spirit, perhaps the soul of a still living person), Arrancar are based on a platform that in itself is already powerful. This is why they are considerably stronger.

[Tobi_goodboy]

Think of it, then, as the following:

Arrancar gain Resurreccion and the Segunda Etapa at the same levels as Shinigami gain Shikai and bankai.

However, Arrancar take a lot of monster levels before that, meaning that when they attain their Resurreccion, they're more than likely at a level/ECL where the shinigami has gained their bankai.

So, when the arrancar gets the segunda etapa, he is far beyond that level.

I personally cannot see Hollow levels as class levels. Hollow are a race. They do not train and do not gain abilities based on learning and training. Their abilities are determined by their bodies alone. At least until they are Adjuchas.

Where shinigami work from a powerless platform (a normal plus spirit, perhaps the soul of a still living person), Arrancar are based on a platform that in itself is already powerful. This is why they are considerably stronger.makes sense.

[ultima22689]

Think of it, then, as the following:

Arrancar gain Resurreccion and the Segunda Etapa at the same levels as Shinigami gain Shikai and bankai.

However, Arrancar take a lot of monster levels before that, meaning that when they attain their Resurreccion, they're more than likely at a level/ECL where the shinigami has gained their bankai.

So, when the arrancar gets the segunda etapa, he is far beyond that level.

I personally cannot see Hollow levels as class levels. Hollow are a race. They do not train and do not gain abilities based on learning and training. Their abilities are determined by their bodies alone. At least until they are Adjuchas.

Where shinigami work from a powerless platform (a normal plus spirit, perhaps the soul of a still living person), Arrancar are based on a platform that in itself is already powerful. This is why they are considerably stronger.

Actually not just anyone can become a shinigami. It was stated a few times you have to have a bit of spiritual power regardless before.

[Krazddndfreek]

True, but the power required is still nothing compared to the power levels a hollow has to reach to become an arrancar.

Haven't seen this for awhile, thought I'd check back on it.:smallwink:

[ultima22689]

True, but the power required is still nothing compared to the power levels a hollow has to reach to become an arrancar.

Haven't seen this for awhile, thought I'd check back on it.:smallwink:


Thats where the rest of the training and shikai and bankai come in. You got to have some talent for your zanpaktou to even have a spirit let alone learn its name, and that doesn't even tough Bankai. I think the manga and anime have just displayed arrancar in a powerful light because they were new opponents. The shinigami have actually been making short work of them since they appeared save for the espada.

[Athildur]

Thats where the rest of the training and shikai and bankai come in. You got to have some talent for your zanpaktou to even have a spirit let alone learn its name, and that doesn't even tough Bankai. I think the manga and anime have just displayed arrancar in a powerful light because they were new opponents. The shinigami have actually been making short work of them since they appeared save for the espada.

Considering that the espada were almost all made with Hougyoku, meaning that they are extremely young, they *are* extremely powerful. I think that even if you count their years as Hollow they would still not reach the same time span as most shinigami. Shinigami captains and vice-captains (and I do count rukia to be at least a 3rd seat, maybe more in power) have been making short work of them with many, *many* more years of training. Plus, you're forgetting that even though Arrancar have Cero and Bala, Shinigami have a lot of kidou to work with, which they frequently do.

Compared to Arrancar, Shinigami are weak. They are just fortunate that they have years of experience to build on, and that they have a lot more experienced troops at their disposal. That being said, most captains are not really at the limit of shinigami power. At least, when you compare them to Aizen. He is clearly of a different level. (I mean, Hitsugaya is a captain, but out of all captains he is most definately the weakest and needs to release his bankai a lot of the time to live up to his status, whereas other captains generally fight with bankai if and only if they cannot win with shikai or maybe without (which is quite often, if we're not counting the fights against the Arrancar and perhaps their most powerful Fraccion).

[sojirouryuzaki]

I seem to have noticed that in the compilation document, it gives no mention to the Augmenter or Materializers' feats. Do they have any class specific feats or have you not created them yet.

[ultima22689]

I seem to have noticed that in the compilation document, it gives no mention to the Augmenter or Materializers' feats. Do they have any class specific feats or have you not created them yet.

Well the original file was never finished so I would imagine the void just didn't make them. The human classes need mad love anyway, especially Quincy.


As for hollow being treated as just another monster/race won't that bar players from playing them? I think player should have just as much an option to play a hollow as a shinigami or human.

[Athildur]

Whoever said you can't play monster races?

The point is that Hollow progression up until at least Adjuchas, perhaps even Arrancar, is simply too animalistic and instinctive to progress by class levels.

I would say that Hollow advancement is more based on monster levels, which increases the Hollow's hit die/saves/etc and can initiate some bodily changes as per increased hit die. Eventually the opportunity will arise to turn into a Menos with its own will, following the same progression by monster level, this time without any possibility of bodily changes, until the Hollow reaches the moment where he can become Adjuchas.

At this point, physical changes are complete and no longer occur, and the Adjuchas can begin training his own spiritual and physical abilities, meaning he could begin taking class levels, perhaps in an Adjuchas class. Once he consumes enough people to become an Arrancar (or is transformed by the Hougyoku), he can start taking Arrancar classes.

Hollow is not a class. It's a race, and it should be treated as such. You can make special rules for Hollow hit die advancement, something you will need regardless because Hollow with higher HD often have more abilities to fight shinigami with.

[Dante & Vergil]

Whoever said you can't play monster races?

When WotC printed the unplayable classes in Savage Species.:smallwink:

I have a couple of things to say.
All Hollows have 20 HD cap, no matter what the type.

I think Hollows should lose their abilities when they become Gillians. Only when they start to Humanize do they gain abilities again.
Becoming Gillians, Adjuchas, and Vasto Lorde are templates that can be obtained after certain events occur.
For Gillians, that would would occour when 15+ hollows, that have been eating other hollows, gather and begin devouring each other, after which they merge together to form a Gillian, with HD equal to the average amongst them. (It will probably be a good idea to keep track of the comprised Hollows mental ability scores for when the process of Humanization begins.)
After a while of eating other hollows, (I don't know what the specifics will be. A little help here would be nice.) a Gillian begins to Humanize slowly, first starting with a battle of wills and egos amongst the Hollows that the Gillian is comprised of. (I also don't know how this will, so I will also need help with this.) The strongest of the egos is the one that takes over the Gillian, and the Gillian gains that Hollows mental scores, alignment, and personality. The Gillians mask changes to show this change has taken place. In fact it's mind clears from the mindless rage that a normal hollow has. Unfortunately, that rage is replaced with the fear of regression.
Afterwards, when the Gillian has devoured even more hollows, the next stage of Humanization takes place. It shrinks to a more normal size for a Hollow and as such gains Hollow abilities again. It is still considered a Gillian.(I think that the Hollow can keep the abilities it had before, but it's more likely that the entire physiology of the hollow will change when it makes this change. The fact that it's still considered a Gillian may or may not stick because the Manga is ambiguous on how this works. If asked I'll explain more.)
Only after more hollows are devoured, that the process continues to progress, which everyone knows this stage as the Adjuchas. (Again, if the previous statement doesn't stick, this will replace it in that spot.)
Now, this is where the biggest problem comes in. The final phase of a Menos Grande Humanizing; becoming a Vasto Lorde. Not only do we not know how these are created, we also don't know what they are capable of except that their strength is higher than that of a Captain of the Gotei 13.

What I have here is what I'll use, but the basic specifics I need suggestions with.
Also, I want to brainstorm on how Vasto Lordes are made and what abilities they get. Mind you, this will most likely be non-canon when Kubo puts something in the manga about them, but until then, we're going to have to come up with something ourselves. What say you?

[ultima22689]

When WotC printed the unplayable classes in Savage Species.:smallwink:

I have a couple of things to say.
All Hollows have 20 HD cap, no matter what the type.

I think Hollows should lose their abilities when they become Gillians. Only when they start to Humanize do they gain abilities again.
Becoming Gillians, Adjuchas, and Vasto Lorde are templates that can be obtained after certain events occur.
For Gillians, that would would occour when 15+ hollows, that have been eating other hollows, gather and begin devouring each other, after which they merge together to form a Gillian, with HD equal to the average amongst them. (It will probably be a good idea to keep track of the comprised Hollows mental ability scores for when the process of Humanization begins.)
After a while of eating other hollows, (I don't know what the specifics will be. A little help here would be nice.) a Gillian begins to Humanize slowly, first starting with a battle of wills and egos amongst the Hollows that the Gillian is comprised of. (I also don't know how this will, so I will also need help with this.) The strongest of the egos is the one that takes over the Gillian, and the Gillian gains that Hollows mental scores, alignment, and personality. The Gillians mask changes to show this change has taken place. In fact it's mind clears from the mindless rage that a normal hollow has. Unfortunately, that rage is replaced with the fear of regression.
Afterwards, when the Gillian has devoured even more hollows, the next stage of Humanization takes place. It shrinks to a more normal size for a Hollow and as such gains Hollow abilities again. It is still considered a Gillian.(I think that the Hollow can keep the abilities it had before, but it's more likely that the entire physiology of the hollow will change when it makes this change. The fact that it's still considered a Gillian may or may not stick because the Manga is ambiguous on how this works. If asked I'll explain more.)
Only after more hollows are devoured, that the process continues to progress, which everyone knows this stage as the Adjuchas. (Again, if the previous statement doesn't stick, this will replace it in that spot.)
Now, this is where the biggest problem comes in. The final phase of a Menos Grande Humanizing; becoming a Vasto Lorde. Not only do we not know how these are created, we also don't know what they are capable of except that their strength is higher than that of a Captain of the Gotei 13.

What I have here is what I'll use, but the basic specifics I need suggestions with.
Also, I want to brainstorm on how Vasto Lordes are made and what abilities they get. Mind you, this will most likely be non-canon when Kubo puts something in the manga about them, but until then, we're going to have to come up with something ourselves. What say you?

Makes sense, this stays very true to the manga and i'd be willing to help with it but does that mean you aren't allowing hollow PCs at all? I'm hoping otherwise.

[Tobi_goodboy]

When WotC printed the unplayable classes in Savage Species.:smallwink:

I have a couple of things to say.
All Hollows have 20 HD cap, no matter what the type.

I think Hollows should lose their abilities when they become Gillians. Only when they start to Humanize do they gain abilities again.
Becoming Gillians, Adjuchas, and Vasto Lorde are templates that can be obtained after certain events occur.
For Gillians, that would would occour when 15+ hollows, that have been eating other hollows, gather and begin devouring each other, after which they merge together to form a Gillian, with HD equal to the average amongst them. (It will probably be a good idea to keep track of the comprised Hollows mental ability scores for when the process of Humanization begins.)
After a while of eating other hollows, (I don't know what the specifics will be. A little help here would be nice.) a Gillian begins to Humanize slowly, first starting with a battle of wills and egos amongst the Hollows that the Gillian is comprised of. (I also don't know how this will, so I will also need help with this.) The strongest of the egos is the one that takes over the Gillian, and the Gillian gains that Hollows mental scores, alignment, and personality. The Gillians mask changes to show this change has taken place. In fact it's mind clears from the mindless rage that a normal hollow has. Unfortunately, that rage is replaced with the fear of regression.
Afterwards, when the Gillian has devoured even more hollows, the next stage of Humanization takes place. It shrinks to a more normal size for a Hollow and as such gains Hollow abilities again. It is still considered a Gillian.(I think that the Hollow can keep the abilities it had before, but it's more likely that the entire physiology of the hollow will change when it makes this change. The fact that it's still considered a Gillian may or may not stick because the Manga is ambiguous on how this works. If asked I'll explain more.)
Only after more hollows are devoured, that the process continues to progress, which everyone knows this stage as the Adjuchas. (Again, if the previous statement doesn't stick, this will replace it in that spot.)
Now, this is where the biggest problem comes in. The final phase of a Menos Grande Humanizing; becoming a Vasto Lorde. Not only do we not know how these are created, we also don't know what they are capable of except that their strength is higher than that of a Captain of the Gotei 13.

What I have here is what I'll use, but the basic specifics I need suggestions with.
Also, I want to brainstorm on how Vasto Lordes are made and what abilities they get. Mind you, this will most likely be non-canon when Kubo puts something in the manga about them, but until then, we're going to have to come up with something ourselves. What say you?

im supposing that they'd (vasto lordes) be created the same way as every other form of menos--by eating other hollows over a protracted period of time, or eating hollows that are major HD above them. the second seems more likely to create a VL, as the sudden rush of energy from eating something much more energy than themselves could alter them in such a substancial (sp?) way.

[Athildur]

About point 4:

I would say keep track of either a) The total HD you consume or b) (and I favor this one) the total amount of 'spirit power' you have consumed. There's a reason Hollow prefer to eat shinigami. Not only does it get rid of their enemies, they also prefer spirits with higher power.

You could probably make it so that Hollow (at least until Vasto Lorde) have a pool of consumption that degenerates at a certain rate. Eating other spirits fills this pool, and when it reaches certain levels, the Hollow will begin transforming into another form.
Additional benefit is that when you implement that it degenerates, it immediately presents the opportunity to mark when a hollow will degrade back into a mindless Gillian.

A battle of wills is difficult. Something such as rolling will saves against one another is out of the question - either the random factor plays too much of a role, or you'd have to roll insane amounts of will saves.

One could envision the battle as an actual battle between Hollow in some sort of mental mindscape. This may not be canon, but it's a legitimate way to let the strongest/smartest Hollow win, and it also provides an interesting battle for the player.

About point 7:
I think it is fair to assume that consumption of other Hollow/spirits is still the key to evolving further, as we know that Grimmjaw was offered to eat from other Adjuchas so that he could become a Vasto Lorde (I think, in the anime at least).

That their power is greater than that of an average captain is simply a case of their HD and the corresponding stats and abilities they are granted. Presumably, their capabilities are more or less similar to Arrancar in their resureccion forms, although I would say it would probably be close to Fraccion powers, and not Espada. One thing I am not sure of is whether Soniido is an Arrancar-only ability, or something all Vasto Lordes can learn.

[ultima22689]

About point 4:

I would say keep track of either a) The total HD you consume or b) (and I favor this one) the total amount of 'spirit power' you have consumed. There's a reason Hollow prefer to eat shinigami. Not only does it get rid of their enemies, they also prefer spirits with higher power.

You could probably make it so that Hollow (at least until Vasto Lorde) have a pool of consumption that degenerates at a certain rate. Eating other spirits fills this pool, and when it reaches certain levels, the Hollow will begin transforming into another form.
Additional benefit is that when you implement that it degenerates, it immediately presents the opportunity to mark when a hollow will degrade back into a mindless Gillian.

A battle of wills is difficult. Something such as rolling will saves against one another is out of the question - either the random factor plays too much of a role, or you'd have to roll insane amounts of will saves.

One could envision the battle as an actual battle between Hollow in some sort of mental mindscape. This may not be canon, but it's a legitimate way to let the strongest/smartest Hollow win, and it also provides an interesting battle for the player.

About point 7:
I think it is fair to assume that consumption of other Hollow/spirits is still the key to evolving further, as we know that Grimmjaw was offered to eat from other Adjuchas so that he could become a Vasto Lorde (I think, in the anime at least).

That their power is greater than that of an average captain is simply a case of their HD and the corresponding stats and abilities they are granted. Presumably, their capabilities are more or less similar to Arrancar in their resureccion forms, although I would say it would probably be close to Fraccion powers, and not Espada. One thing I am not sure of is whether Soniido is an Arrancar-only ability, or something all Vasto Lordes can learn.

Well considering that Ichigo was able to use sonido might be able to explain it as more of a hollow ability that isn't necessarily exclusive to arrancar since Ichigo has a inner hollow, not an inner arrancar, so it may be possible that Vasto Lordes can use sonido.

[Tobi_goodboy]

Well considering that Ichigo was able to use sonido might be able to explain it as more of a hollow ability that isn't necessarily exclusive to arrancar since Ichigo has a inner hollow, not an inner arrancar, so it may be possible that Vasto Lordes can use sonido.

i believe chad also used soniido against the afro guy (i cant remember his name for the life of me) when he gained his new arm abilities.

[Dante & Vergil]

Makes sense, this stays very true to the manga and i'd be willing to help with it but does that mean you aren't allowing hollow PCs at all? I'm hoping otherwise.

I think players should be allowed to play what ever they want, within reason. Just because there isn't a pretty table setup for Hollows doesn't mean players can't play them.
What I said earlier was a joke, and I hope someone enjoyed it.
Oh, and thanks.


im supposing that they'd (vasto lordes) be created the same way as every other form of menos--by eating other hollows over a protracted period of time, or eating hollows that are major HD above them. the second seems more likely to create a VL, as the sudden rush of energy from eating something much more energy than themselves could alter them in such a substancial (sp?) way.

I like how they would have to eat a hollow much stronger than themselves, although that might prove to be to difficult. I think that this will occur when an Adjuchas has eaten a good chunk of powerful hollows, but not too powerful.


About point 7:
I think it is fair to assume that consumption of other Hollow/spirits is still the key to evolving further, as we know that Grimmjaw was offered to eat from other Adjuchas so that he could become a Vasto Lorde (I think, in the anime at least).

That their power is greater than that of an average captain is simply a case of their HD and the corresponding stats and abilities they are granted. Presumably, their capabilities are more or less similar to Arrancar in their resureccion forms, although I would say it would probably be close to Fraccion powers, and not Espada. One thing I am not sure of is whether Soniido is an Arrancar-only ability, or something all Vasto Lordes can learn.

Consumption will be the continuing process, as above.


About point 4:

I would say keep track of either a) The total HD you consume or b) (and I favor this one) the total amount of 'spirit power' you have consumed. There's a reason Hollow prefer to eat shinigami. Not only does it get rid of their enemies, they also prefer spirits with higher power.

...

One could envision the battle as an actual battle between Hollow in some sort of mental mindscape. This may not be canon, but it's a legitimate way to let the strongest/smartest Hollow win, and it also provides an interesting battle for the player.

I think it'll be whoever has the highest reiatsu, for simplicities sake. The internal battle could be an alternative to this, using opposed base reiatsu checks.

So far, it sounds good with what we have here, I'll try to get to work on it.
Until then, peace.:smallbiggrin:

[Shadowbane]

This is amazing. I'm so amazed at this. You guys did an amazing job, kudos. My one problem here is just learning all this stuff! :smallbiggrin:

[Tobi_goodboy]

This is amazing. I'm so amazed at this. You guys did an amazing job, kudos. My one problem here is just learning all this stuff! :smallbiggrin:

i like the enthusiasm :smallbiggrin: