Witch Hex Forced Reincarnation Stories

[Desiani]

So my witch is offcially 'the worst party member ever.' This title was given to my witch because she can't land a debuffing hex to save her life. I've buffed the DC as much as possible but stuff still wins the save rolls :(

The story I've come to tell is fairly short but I thought it was worth sharing because literal books were thrown at me! :D The party wizard and Sorcerer are twins with a well defined expiration date.

They twins are the main focus of our campaign as they are heirs to the control of their respective class guilds. It's essentially a story about which form of casting is better because dm got tired of arguments from these two players. The story was supposed to end when the twins died by divine providence, but the lowly witch intervened!

The night of their deaths I decide to give Forced Reincarnation a try and what do you know! They both failed their saves! :D Lo and behold the new orc wizard and kobold sorcerer! :D They were pretty angry that they got horrible races for their classes... :D

Anyone have any fun stories about witch hexes? :o

[DarkOne-Rob]

I am at work and literally laughed out loud at this story! Well played, sir!

Currently I am playing my first witch in a play-by-post game. I decided I wanted to be an arcane, intelligence-based healer, and so far it is working out well. Unlike all other healing classes I can pass around the healing to everyone (once a day), so the early events of Rise of the Runelords has kept my PC busy with spreading the healing-goodness around. Too bad I am not charismatic enough to attract the attention of the ladies, though...:smallwink:

[Psyren]

The orc wizard had rotten luck but kobold sorcerer isn't bad. (Though it's not as good as it was in 3.5.)

You may want to sleep with one eye open though as I would personally consider FR on my character to be PvP.

[Ettina]

You may want to sleep with one eye open though as I would personally consider FR on my character to be PvP.

They were prophesized to die anyway. The witch saved their lives.

[Psyren]

They were prophesized to die anyway. The witch saved their lives.

If simply killing and raising them (which is what FR does) was enough to beat the prophecy, then they could have been killed or allowed to die and then raised normally, and kept their old bodies without fear. And if it didn't beat the prophecy, they ate an extra permanent negative level for no reason.

Considering FR is a Grand Hex they are almost certainly high enough level to arrange that sequence of events.

[atemu1234]

If simply killing and raising them (which is what FR does) was enough to beat the prophecy, then they could have been killed or allowed to die and then raised normally, and kept their old bodies without fear. And if it didn't beat the prophecy, they ate an extra permanent negative level for no reason.

Considering FR is a Grand Hex they are almost certainly high enough level to arrange that sequence of events.

To be fair, maybe it was death in the tarot sense?

[grarrrg]

Currently I am playing my first witch in a play-by-post game. I decided I wanted to be an arcane, intelligence-based healer, and so far it is working out well. Unlike all other healing classes I can pass around the healing to everyone (once a day), so the early events of Rise of the Runelords has kept my PC busy with spreading the healing-goodness around. Too bad I am not charismatic enough to attract the attention of the ladies, though...:smallwink:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you did NOT go Hedge Witch (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/hedge-witch).

[Dalebert]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you did NOT go Hedge Witch (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/hedge-witch).

I hope not. Seems like a crappy deal.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

How is orc particularly bad? Yeah, they don't have anything particularly suited to wizarding, but I don't believe you get the mental stat penalties when you reincarnate, regardless of the source...

[DarkOne-Rob]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you did NOT go Hedge Witch (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/hedge-witch).
I did. Why? Is that a bad idea in your opinion?

It isn't the finest set of trades - no argument here - but taking some extra Hexes as feats seems to be working for me in theory. I had the build written down somewhere, but for now am just planning to use hexes as my primary in combat action with spells as buffs as my secondary plan. Healing Hex is first, but as we level and I get enough spell slots, I figure having the option to spontaneously heal will be worth it.

[Psyren]

It's not the best archetype but it's not the worst either. You never have to prep a healing spell and at the end of the day you can dump all your healing into patching up the party.

[DarkOne-Rob]

It's not the best archetype but it's not the worst either. You never have to prep a healing spell and at the end of the day you can dump all your healing into patching up the party.
That's the idea. So far we have done really well, though the opening combats in Sandpoint are all pretty minor...

[Dalebert]

Healing mid-combat is just so ineffective in general. Our DM has house-ruled that cure spells are swift actions and yet I never prepare them. And patching at the end of the day? We do that with cheap 1st level wands after each combat. There's never any significant patching to do later. I wouldn't mind being able to spontaneously cast cure spells but it just doesn't seem worth what they want you to give up. Seems like just taking the healing hexes should be plenty. I can't imagine wanting to use more cure spells than that very often.

[DarkOne-Rob]

Starting at level 1 with too little cash to buy wands will motivate you to have some healing...

[Psyren]

Healing is just so ineffective in general. Our DM has house-ruled that cure spells cast as spells (not wands, scrolls, etc.) are swift actions and yet I never prepare them. And patching at the end of the day? We do that with cheap 1st level wands after each combat. There's never any significant patching to do later. I wouldn't mind being able to spontaneously cast cure spells but it just doesn't seem worth what they want you to give up. Seems like just taking the healing hexes should be plenty. I can't imagine wanting to use more cure spells than that very often.

Not all campaigns give you free access to Wilhelm's Wand Emporium, you know. The DM is well within his rights to use random loot tables, or to make you take Craft Wand if you really want a specific wand every time. And if you do that, the feat you've blown on that is equivalent to the Hedge Witch taking Extra Hex to make up for one of the ones she lost.

The Empathic Healing I agree is weak, though it does let you help a party member deal with poison mid-combat. Curiously, no range is listed.

[Dalebert]

The Empathic Healing I agree is weak, though it does let you help a party member deal with poison mid-combat. Curiously, no range is listed.

If it weren't for that one, I'd probably do it. I think they tack on Empathic Healing because they think the first ability is worth more than just one hex.

[DarkOne-Rob]

If it weren't for that one, I'd probably do it. I think they tack on Empathic Healing because they think the first ability is worth more than just one hex.
I agree - I have considered trying to find a good way out of that exchange, but haven't yet...

[grarrrg]

I did. Why? Is that a bad idea in your opinion?

I actually heartily approve of the archetype.
It was just the way you phrased things that seemed odd.


Unlike all other healing classes I can pass around the healing to everyone (once a day)
This in particular. Clerics get Channel Energy, which _one_ use of is roughly equivalent to one whole party-ing of the Healing Hex.


I think they tack on Empathic Healing because they think the first ability is worth more than just one hex.
Well, Paizo pretty much never does "one and done" archetype trades, as it wouldn't do much to support whatever 'theme' they have going on.
So a second trade is a given.
The fact that it is a fairly worthless trade paired with a pretty handy ability...fully intended? Or somewhat incidental?


The Empathic Healing I agree is weak, though it does let you help a party member deal with poison mid-combat. Curiously, no range is listed.
It does say the Witch has to "tend to" the poison/diseased person. Which in most cases would mean the range is "adjacent".

[Psyren]

The fact that it is a fairly worthless trade paired with a pretty handy ability...fully intended? Or somewhat incidental?

*glances sideways at Empyreal Knight*

I'm gonna go with intended :smalltongue:

[Dalebert]

I'm gonna go with intended :smalltongue:

Agreed. They probably thought it was worth about 1.5 hexes, maybe even 2 hexes, so they tried to come up with something that was worth around 0 to half of a hex to balance it out. Seems like clever marketing to me. If they'd just made you pay 2 hexes for one ability it would seem like rip-off, which I kinda still think it is.

Gravewalker is even worse though. Aura of Desecration is a straight-up hex tax. Don't even get me started on gravewalkers. I've already been involved with extensive threads on that subject. Good riddance.

Wasn't this thread about forced reincarnation specifically?

[Psyren]

Gravewalker is even worse though. Aura of Desecration is a straight-up hex tax. Don't even get me started on gravewalkers. I've already been involved with extensive threads on that subject. Good riddance.

To be fair, that was a bigger problem with your GM than with the Gravewalker specifically. Any necromancer is going to suffer if the GM deliberately doesn't give it corpses. Gravewalker is still useful because it gives the Witch tools to deal with a generally problematic creature type.



Wasn't this thread about forced reincarnation specifically?

I said my peace on that subject; using it on fellow PCs out of the blue is generally frowned upon (as Desiani may come to learn.)

[Dalebert]

...they ate an extra permanent negative level for no reason.

Isn't that recoverable via Restoration?

I've pondered using reincarnation as a route to immortality. If you're picky (and you should be) get your hands on a scroll of limited wish to wish for the type of creature you'll come back as the next time you get reincarnated. Then use forced reincarnation on yourself. BAM! Young, healthy body, as well as a race change if you desire it.

Actually it's cheaper to just pay a wizard to cast limited wish for you.

[Psyren]

Isn't that recoverable via Restoration?

Sure, but again if they die anyway due to prophecy it's extraneous.



I've pondered using reincarnation as a route to immortality. If you're picky (and you should be) get your hands on a scroll of limited wish to wish for the type of creature you'll come back as the next time you get reincarnated. Then use forced reincarnation on yourself. BAM! Young, healthy body, as well as a race change if you desire it.

I don't know that LW can do that. Automatically hitting on an attack is one thing, but if you allow it to let you choose any result you want from a table before you roll that gets broken quickly. Pull any card you want from a Deck of Many Things, get any result when you Contact Other Plane, choose exactly where you end up when you're teleporting somewhere you've never seen etc.

[Dalebert]

I don't know that LW can do that. Automatically hitting on an attack is one thing, but if you allow it to let you choose any result you want from a table before you roll that gets broken quickly. Pull any card you want from a Deck of Many Things, get any result when you Contact Other Plane, choose exactly where you end up when you're teleporting somewhere you've never seen etc.

But the effect of controlling random events are not all equivalently powerful. A Deck of Many Things can be dramatically beneficial or dramatically horrible. Controlling that is a substantially powerful effect. Aren't all the races on the reincarnation table pretty much balanced out in general relative power levels? Are any LA+x creatures even on the table?

So a DM could reasonably conclude that controlling the reincarnation table one time is not too powerful for LW while controlling a Deck of Many Things definitely is. At the risk of meta-gaming a bit, consider this. You got to pick your race at the start of the game. Using a fairly powerful spell to pick it again later isn't that big a deal.

[Psyren]

One is indeed more powerful than the other, but either way you are using the spell to pick your preferred option from a random table. Like I said, I don't think I would allow that as a valid use. YMMV.

[Arbane]

I've pondered using reincarnation as a route to immortality. If you're picky (and you should be) get your hands on a scroll of limited wish to wish for the type of creature you'll come back as the next time you get reincarnated. Then use forced reincarnation on yourself. BAM! Young, healthy body, as well as a race change if you desire it.

I had the exact same idea, only using Divination to pre-plan it.

[Dalebert]

I had the exact same idea, only using Divination to pre-plan it.

Wow, that's way cheaper and quite brilliant. Just keep divining whether you will come back as race X if you reincarnate yourself in your next action. As soon as you get "yes", do it.

[Psyren]

At the risk of being a buzzkill, that's not foolproof either. You get a useful piece of advice, or possibly even "a cryptic rhyme or omen" - whichever power is answering you might give you the "useful advice" to just be happy in your own skin. And worse, if you ask questions on that topic again you'll get the same result no matter how many times you do it. And that's putting aside the 10% failure chance (which, if it fails once, will also continue to do so.)