Pointless/Less-Than-Amazing Prestige Classes

[Rystil Xilvertr]

Alright, so I've been looking at some of the prestige classes that deal with magic/etc., like Cerebremancer and Psychic Theurge. And...*Sighs* Apart from generally increasing caster/manifester level and spells/powers known, these prestige classes really aren't worth wasting 10 levels on.

But, when I look at the Warlock/caster classes (Eldritch Theurge and Eldritch Disciple), I see that they actually add much-needed benefits, like Eldritch Theurge's Spellblast and Greatreach Blast, and Eldritch Disciple's Healing Blast.
So, I'm curious how you guys would go about improving these - Would the caster/psionic PrC's be able to augment spells or combine spells and powers, and would Cerebremancer be able to combine arcane spells with divine spells/turning attempt uses for extra power?

Also, on the subject of Arcane Archer -
1) It requires arcane spellcasting and gives abilities that work dominantly on spells of a higher level than those required to enter the PrC (Fireball Arrow sound familiar?), so why doesn't it give improvements to caster level and spells known/per day?
2) I HAVE seen a homebrew Psychic Archer, and it was actually more flavorful than Arcane Archer (It gave extra power points and powers known, as well as, at epic levels, the ability to cause your arrows to burrow through things like Walls Of Force, not to mention that the light armor pretty much every Arcane Archer is proficient with doesn't interfere with powers the same way it does spells). But, I have NOT yet seen Divine Archers or Eldritch Archers, and, honestly, it would be so awesome to combine Imbue Arrow with a Spellblast and some augmented Powers.

So, I'd really be interested to see some improvements to AA (can cast spells in light armor, more versatility to the type of spells that can be placed on arrows, and caster level/spells known/spells per day progression), as well as some variations for Divine, Psychic and Eldritch Archers. I WILL come up with some myself, given time, and see what you guys think.

Here are the links to my sources:
http://dndtools.eu/classes/cerebremancer/
http://dndtools.eu/classes/psychic-theurge/
http://dndtools.eu/classes/eldritch-theurge/
http://dndtools.eu/classes/eldritch-disciple/
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Psychic_Archer_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)

[Telonius]

Here's my usual method to improving the Arcane Archer:
Take the Warlock class. Wherever you see the word, "Warlock," cross it out and write in "Arcane Archer." :smallbiggrin:

A little bit more seriously, yes, the prestige classes you've mentioned are generally recognized as being sub-par. Theurge-like classes that combine the features of two different spellcasting systems are particularly hard to "fix." Magic is extremely powerful in 3.5. One of the big reasons is that magic is extremely versatile. The primary spellcasters, just by being primary spellcasters, have the tools to end many different kinds of encounters, in ways that other classes just don't have. (Using "spellcasters" a bit broadly here; something like a Psion or an Artificer would also be part of what I'm talking about).

When you make a Theurge prestige class, you're taking a spellcaster and giving him even more options. In the published PrCs, that's "balanced" out by the character losing at least two caster levels on both sides of the casting, meaning they're a weaker character than if they'd just taken one class or the other. There are some shenanigans you can pull that advance you to full casting in everything, but then you might as well be a Gestalt character for how powerful that's going to make you. Finding the "sweet spot" between those two cases is pretty challenging.

With the Warlock Theurge classes, it's a little bit different. While Warlock can be pretty versatile, it just doesn't have the same world-shattering potential that most of the primary spellcasters have. Any Wizard who gives up some caster levels for Invocation advancement is by definition powering themselves down. So the Eldrtich classes are more about Warlocks who want a side of Cleric or Wizard, than Wizards who want a side of Warlock. Giving the Warlock a few extra goodies isn't going to stomp on game balance quite as much as giving a power upgrade to a Wizard would.

[(Un)Inspired]

Arcane Archer is a useful prestige class for it's given niche (pinning AMF to people) it's just weird that it's only two levels long.

[darksolitaire]

Arcane Archer works better if you think of it is a PrC for mundanes instead of casters. In that way, it doesn't seem to suck so much in comparison :smalltongue:

[Rystil Xilvertr]

Here's my usual method to improving the Arcane Archer:
Take the Warlock class. Wherever you see the word, "Warlock," cross it out and write in "Arcane Archer." :smallbiggrin:

A little bit more seriously, yes, the prestige classes you've mentioned are generally recognized as being sub-par. Theurge-like classes that combine the features of two different spellcasting systems are particularly hard to "fix." Magic is extremely powerful in 3.5. One of the big reasons is that magic is extremely versatile. The primary spellcasters, just by being primary spellcasters, have the tools to end many different kinds of encounters, in ways that other classes just don't have. (Using "spellcasters" a bit broadly here; something like a Psion or an Artificer would also be part of what I'm talking about).

When you make a Theurge prestige class, you're taking a spellcaster and giving him even more options. In the published PrCs, that's "balanced" out by the character losing at least two caster levels on both sides of the casting, meaning they're a weaker character than if they'd just taken one class or the other. There are some shenanigans you can pull that advance you to full casting in everything, but then you might as well be a Gestalt character for how powerful that's going to make you. Finding the "sweet spot" between those two cases is pretty challenging.

With the Warlock Theurge classes, it's a little bit different. While Warlock can be pretty versatile, it just doesn't have the same world-shattering potential that most of the primary spellcasters have. Any Wizard who gives up some caster levels for Invocation advancement is by definition powering themselves down. So the Eldrtich classes are more about Warlocks who want a side of Cleric or Wizard, than Wizards who want a side of Warlock. Giving the Warlock a few extra goodies isn't going to stomp on game balance quite as much as giving a power upgrade to a Wizard would.

I see your point. Warlock is considerably less versatile than Wizard and Cleric, I see that much. And really with the Theurge classes like Cerebremancer, All I was saying was they lack flavor. Take away a few caster level bumps and jack up the prereq's and add in the ability to spend a full-round action to cast an arcane spell with a divine spell of the same range/target so long as both spells have a casting time of one standard action or less (Like adding Inflict Light Wounds to Shocking Grasp, for example). Nothing game-breaking, just something to make it a little more interesting.

[Rystil Xilvertr]

Arcane Archer is a useful prestige class for it's given niche (pinning AMF to people) it's just weird that it's only two levels long.

Um, actually it's ten levels long, but most people only take the first two levels, that way they can gain the best ability in the class (Imbue Arrow) And then move on to something else. And yes, it IS useful for what it's meant for, I just wish it gave at least a little boost to caster level, perhaps only every odd-numbered level.

[(Un)Inspired]

Um, actually it's ten levels long, but most people only take the first two levels, that way they can gain the best ability in the class (Imbue Arrow) And then move on to something else. And yes, it IS useful for what it's meant for, I just wish it gave at least a little boost to caster level, perhaps only every odd-numbered level.

...

I know it has more than 2 levels. The joke is that you should only ever take 2 and never even look at the rest. .

[Rystil Xilvertr]

...

I know it has more than 2 levels. The joke is that you should only ever take 2 and never even look at the rest. .

Alright, thank you. I wasn't insinuating you were stupid or anything, I was just trying to make sure you had your facts straight XD All good, right?

[(Un)Inspired]

Alright, thank you. I wasn't insinuating you were stupid or anything, I was just trying to make sure you had your facts straight XD All good, right?

Haha Ya of course. I often am in the position of not knowing all the facts so it never hurts to check.

I don't think there are any 2-level prestige classes however. I think the shortest we get is 3. Some please correct me if I'm wrong

[Rystil Xilvertr]

Haha Ya of course. I often am in the position of not knowing all the facts so it never hurts to check.

I don't think there are any 2-level prestige classes however. I think the shortest we get is 3. Some please correct me if I'm wrong

I'm pretty sure you're right. I'VE never seen any shorter than 3.

[Rystil Xilvertr]

Here's my take on improving the Prc's.


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q7YP6lVTxwIgBMlALccpTYUAsTFBnI-CRvVScgzM1xQ/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jQg1D7gVZwpyibzilMCYe9GIg1U7NOuRenQ05ett9Z4/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GESCRLmIjWvaSXGHJscciz4L1I_smf7RwTUFZe0P9cY/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fYxosg_oI38QMZskfgsYVQhH95Qia7QH4gxzJLGEb3s/edit?usp=sharing

[Venger]

Haha Ya of course. I often am in the position of not knowing all the facts so it never hurts to check.

I don't think there are any 2-level prestige classes however. I think the shortest we get is 3. Some please correct me if I'm wrong

there are no 2 lvl prestige classes. there are a great deal of 3 lvl prcs, though.

Rystil Xilvertr, it's a common thing on these boards to say a class is "only x lvls long" because there is no reason to take more than that many levels of that class, such as monk or fighter.

[Sir Chuckles]

Duelist deserves a mention. Prereqs are painful, locked into a fighting style that, while admittedly I am a huge sucker for, is incredibly subpar in 3e, and the inability to wear armor all make for a really bleh experience. It's good chassis with full BaB and a d10 hitdice is all fine and dandy, but it's a case of "Why every take the class when Swashbuckler, and also Daring Outlaw, is a thing?".

The archetype as a whole is woefully underrepresented in 3.5 and, to a lesser extent, Pathfinder. Darn shame, really.

[Nettlekid]

My go-to answer for useless/pointless prestige class is Lifedrinker from the BoVD. Every complaint about the Arcane Archer is multiplied tenfold for the Lifedrinker. It's a Vampire-only PrC which uses points from a Lifewell (built up by blood it drains) to apply Empower, Quicken, Heighten, or Maximize to its spells, and it can do some other stuff with the Lifewell too. Not too bad? EXCEPT THAT IT DOESN'T PROGRESS CASTING. You expect me to eat the +8 LA for being a Vampire, take the 10 levels of this PrC, and still have enough casting levels for my spells to be in any way relevant enough to benefit from that metamagic? Not going to happen before like, level 30. Not to mention the poor action economy of having to waste actions grappling and blood-draining before you can use that metamagic on your spells. But really, the loss of 10 levels to a class which largely improves spells is just ridiculous.

[Sartharina]

but it's a case of "Why every take the class when Swashbuckler, and also Daring Outlaw, is a thing?".Because Daring Outlaw and Swashbuckler weren't a thing when the prestige class was made?

I'd vote for Reaping Mauler. The grappler class that makes you worse at grappling.

[Sir Chuckles]

Because Daring Outlaw and Swashbuckler weren't a thing when the prestige class was made?

That doesn't mean it's not awful, and, if anything, is another example of them releasing a kind of "2.0" class at a later date. Many of the early PrCs are fairly terrible, either filling no niche or doing so in a very poor manner.

[Rystil Xilvertr]

there are no 2 lvl prestige classes. there are a great deal of 3 lvl prcs, though.

Rystil Xilvertr, it's a common thing on these boards to say a class is "only x lvls long" because there is no reason to take more than that many levels of that class, such as monk or fighter.

My name was supposed to be be Rystil Xilvertren, but apparently it was too long and it cut off the end and I didn't notice until after I made the account. For which I feel like a total noob.

And yeah, I got what he meant, it just took me a minute.

[Rystil Xilvertr]

So what did you guys think of my PrC Alt Class Features?

[Velaryon]

Because Daring Outlaw and Swashbuckler weren't a thing when the prestige class was made?

I'd vote for Reaping Mauler. The grappler class that makes you worse at grappling.

Agreed on that one, although it's simple enough to swap it around so that Improved Grapple is a prerequisite and you get Clever Wrestling at 1st level, which is how it should have been in the first place. Then instead of actively making you worse at grappling, it just focuses you extremely narrowly on something you're still not gonna be great at unless you can massively buff your size (or more likely, get someone else in the party to do it for you).

[Petrocorus]

I always point out PrC that have weird requirement, or too big requirement.

Silver Pyromancer could be interesting if it didn't ask you to have Turn Undead while being an arcane caster.

BladeSinger ask for a skill tax, a huge feat tax, lock you in the same kind of subpar fighting style that Duelist and advance only 1/2 caster level.


My name was supposed to be be Rystil Xilvertren, but apparently it was too long and it cut off the end and I didn't notice until after I made the account. For which I feel like a total noob.

You know you can change your name, normally? Once a year, i think.

[Venger]

I always point out PrC that have weird requirement, or too big requirement.

Silver Pyromancer could be interesting if it didn't ask you to have Turn Undead while being an arcane caster.

BladeSinger ask for a skill tax, a huge feat tax, lock you in the same kind of subpar fighting style that Duelist and advance only 1/2 caster level.

You know you can change your name, normally? Once a year, i think.
sacred exorcist gets you in without too much trouble.

bladesinger is grosser than gross, especially in a game where duskblade now exists.

[atemu1234]

I hate cerebremancer, myself. Nothing short of beholder cheese gets you to full nines by level twenty with that, and you're giving up two sets of class features. I'll stick to my StP Erudite Ur-Priest Divine Mind, thankyouverymuch.

[Forrestfire]

Well, Ardent does. Spellcaster 2/Ardent 1/Cerebremancer 10/Legacy Champion 6/open level 1. Unlocks 9th-level spells at level 19 and 9th-level powers at level 17.

Still a pretty bad class, though :smallsigh:

[Petrocorus]

I would also say Jade Phoenix Mage, it's hardly a pointless or lame PrC, but i always disliked the restricted Discipline choice of the JPM. It don't synergise well with Crusader and not at all with Warblade, the logical base martial class entries.

It supposed to be the arcane equivalent of the RKV, but the RKV have better discipline choice, better class feature and can be used with Ur-Priest and Divine Crusader, provided you find a way to gain Turn Undead.


sacred exorcist gets you in without too much trouble.


I know, but it's still weird and pointless that the class ask for it. It's not even specialised against undead.

Speaking of Turn Undead, i also dislike the Prestige Paladin ask for it, since it make it harder for Favoured Soul to qualify, while their fluff has similitude.
That apply to the RKV too, actually.

[Esprit15]

I would also say Jade Phoenix Mage, it's hardly a pointless or lame PrC, but i always disliked the restricted Discipline choice of the JPM. It don't synergise well with Crusader and not at all with Warblade, the logical base martial class entries.

It supposed to be the arcane equivalent of the RKV, but the RKV have better discipline choice, better class feature and can be used with Ur-Priest and Divine Crusader, provided you find a way to gain Turn Undead.

Really? I found that the disciplines make for good flavor, and while it does kind of force you to use one of the weakest disciplines (Damned Desert Wind and their obsession with fire), it also gives you one of the strongest with Devoted Spirit.

My biggest objection is honestly the hitdie. A d6? Really? Couldn't at least err on the side of helpful and make it a d8? If I used Battle Sorc as an entry, my gish class is the one giving me the lowest HP. It gets the same dice as a Dread Necromancer or a Warmage! Given that a Crusader or a Warblade is the most likely martial entry (for the CHA or INT synergy with casting), you would think that one of the larger hitdice would be used. Then again, maybe I'm just whiny.

[Petrocorus]

Really? I found that the disciplines make for good flavor, and while it does kind of force you to use one of the weakest disciplines (Damned Desert Wind and their obsession with fire), it also gives you one of the strongest with Devoted Spirit.

My biggest objection is honestly the hitdie. A d6? Really? Couldn't at least err on the side of helpful and make it a d8? If I used Battle Sorc as an entry, my gish class is the one giving me the lowest HP. It gets the same dice as a Dread Necromancer or a Warmage! Given that a Crusader or a Warblade is the most likely martial entry (for the CHA or INT synergy with casting), you would think that one of the larger hitdice would be used. Then again, maybe I'm just whiny.

I do believe that the disciplines are good for flavour, Desert Wind is really logical for the JPM fluff-wise, but if you enter as a Sorcader, you lose White Raven. And as a Wizblade, you lose all you disciplines and have to start new ones. JPM would be good if it just add Desert Wind to your already known disciplines.

IIRC, the D6 is the same that for the Eldritch Knight. But yeah, D8 would not be undeserved. I've always wanted to homebrew a fix of the JPM.

As a related note, i don't really understand why ToB PrC just don't have a "+1 initiator level" similar to spellcasting PrC instead of specific progressions. That may be logical for the Master of Nine, but for the others, no so much IMHO.

[Rystil Xilvertr]

Eldritch Knight is blasphemy.

[Rubik]

Master inquisitive. "I can talk to people!" Its only actual class features are three spell-like abilities, each available 1/day. Bleh.

[Synar]

Giving arcane archer 7/10 or more spellcasting progression is actually quite the common fix. By the way, one of the reason the RAW arcane archer lacks such a progression is because it is one of the first prestige class ever made.

[Rystil Xilvertr]

Giving arcane archer 7/10 or more spellcasting progression is actually quite the common fix. By the way, one of the reason the RAW arcane archer lacks such a progression is because it is one of the first prestige class ever made.

Interesting.

[Rystil Xilvertr]

I had an interesting idea. Why, when using Imbue Arrow, do ALL targets get a reflex saving throw against Fireball/similar spells? You'd think if you fired the arrow and hit someone, they wouldn't be able to jump out of the way of the explosion originating from the arrow embedded in their body. Just a thought.

I'm thinking about putting together a prestige class that combines Arcane Archer with Justice Of Weald And Woe/similar abilities. After all, an Arcane Archer death attacking using a splitting Fireball arrow must suck for whoever they're battling.

[Forrestfire]

Well, given the abstraction of hit points, a hit is not necessarily a hit. It might have been a variety of possible "hits", or they could rip the arrow out and toss it to the side as they duck, or maybe they were taking lessons from Touhou characters or something.

[Rystil Xilvertr]

Well, given the abstraction of hit points, a hit is not necessarily a hit. It might have been a variety of possible "hits", or they could rip the arrow out and toss it to the side as they duck, or maybe they were taking lessons from Touhou characters or something.

My point is, the spell is centered where the arrow lands, and if you make a successful attack roll to hit, then the arrow is still going to explode on impact. If you miss, then yes, Ref half, but if you hit, then I still don't see how they could avoid it. Idk.

[Divayth Fyr]

My point is, the spell is centered where the arrow lands, and if you make a successful attack roll to hit, then the arrow is still going to explode on impact. If you miss, then yes, Ref half, but if you hit, then I still don't see how they could avoid it. Idk.
The same way they can avoid a fireball when being in a locked room which is smaller than the explosion. Logically, it would be impossible, but we all know rules have nothing to do with logic ;)

[heavyfuel]

The same way they can avoid a fireball when being in a locked room which is smaller than the explosion. Logically, it would be impossible, but we all know rules have nothing to do with logic ;)

Not really true. Rules Compendium (pg 113) says you don't get a Evasion if you don't have room to maneuver, so they could at best halve the damage, but not avoid it completely

[Arbane]

Not really true. Rules Compendium (pg 113) says you don't get a Evasion if you don't have room to maneuver, so they could at best halve the damage, but not avoid it completely

Given that making a reflex saving throw doesn't move the dodger even a single inch, I don't see why that would be the case.

[heavyfuel]

Given that making a reflex saving throw doesn't move the dodger even a single inch, I don't see why that would be the case.

I think it's mostly to be rid of the idea that people jump into Roguespace when they use Evasion, which is pretty absurd for an (Ex) ability. While a plain Reflex save can be seen as covering your vitals from debris/fire, completely avoiding it seems a bit too far fetched when you don't have enough room.

If it should be this way or not, it's up to each individual DM, but the rule is quite clear that you don't get Evasion.

[Taveena]

Well, Ardent does. Spellcaster 2/Ardent 1/Cerebremancer 10/Legacy Champion 6/open level 1. Unlocks 9th-level spells at level 19 and 9th-level powers at level 17.

Still a pretty bad class, though :smallsigh:

Savage Bard 1/Ardent 4/Ur-Priest 2/PsiTheurge 4/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 3/Cerebremancer 5.

TRIPLE NINES! WOO.

[Ellowryn]

Savage Bard 1/Ardent 4/Ur-Priest 2/PsiTheurge 4/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 3/Cerebremancer 5.

TRIPLE NINES! WOO.

So, what was your reflex save to dodge those flying books? :smalltongue:

[grarrrg]

So, what was your reflex save to dodge those flying books? :smalltongue:

Flying books are a Thrown Weapon attack, and thus target AC, not REF save. :smalltongue:

[Troacctid]

Savage Bard 1/Ardent 4/Ur-Priest 2/PsiTheurge 4/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 3/Cerebremancer 5.

TRIPLE NINES! WOO.
Doesn't qualify for Sublime Chord.

[Amphetryon]

Not really true. Rules Compendium (pg 113) says you don't get a Evasion if you don't have room to maneuver, so they could at best halve the damage, but not avoid it completely

Does the Deluxe (reprinted) version of the PhB or DMG include this verbiage for Evasion? Curmudgeon has opined more than once around here that - due to WotC's policy of rules primacy - Rules Compendium lacks the authority to add rules to books that came out after it (I'm paraphrasing).

[Taveena]

Doesn't qualify for Sublime Chord.

Ur-Priest with Alternate Source Spell. Second level Arcanes, bam.

[heavyfuel]

Does the Deluxe (reprinted) version of the PhB or DMG include this verbiage for Evasion? Curmudgeon has opined more than once around here that - due to WotC's policy of rules primacy - Rules Compendium lacks the authority to add rules to books that came out after it (I'm paraphrasing).

I don't know, as I don't have these books. But even then, if the Deluxe PHB doesn't mention anything, there is no contradiction between RC and the DPHB, the DPHB simply stayed silent in regards to this existing rule. If not, RC is pretty much a useless book (which will really make some people happy, for some reason)

Quick question about the books though. Are they referred to as "Player's Handbook" and "Dungeon Master's Guide" by these names exactly (despite what their cover says)? Because if they aren't, the Primary Sources Rules won't direct you to them, but the original PHB and DMG. Then again, I don't have these books to know if that is the case.

[Ellowryn]

Flying books are a Thrown Weapon attack, and thus target AC, not REF save. :smalltongue:

It does if they are targeting the square they are in.

[Amphetryon]

I don't know, as I don't have these books. But even then, if the Deluxe PHB doesn't mention anything, there is no contradiction between RC and the DPHB, the DPHB simply stayed silent in regards to this existing rule. If not, RC is pretty much a useless book (which will really make some people happy, for some reason)

Quick question about the books though. Are they referred to as "Player's Handbook" and "Dungeon Master's Guide" by these names exactly (despite what their cover says)? Because if they aren't, the Primary Sources Rules won't direct you to them, but the original PHB and DMG. Then again, I don't have these books to know if that is the case.

The most recently printed version of the PhB/DMG for 3.5 ARE the deluxe versions, last time I checked, which is why rules primacy directs you to those rather than the Rules Compendium, according to (my understanding of) Curmudgeon's argument, which I admit I'm giving a condensed version of.

[Chronos]

Evasion doesn't require roguespace. A fireball doesn't completely fill its space: Think of it as tendrils of fire all over the place. An ordinary creature is bound to get hit by a bunch of them, or at least a few (depending on whether you save), but a rogue is dextrous and skilled enough to work her way entirely into the gaps between tendrils.

[Forrestfire]

Except that all the pictures of fireball show explosions.

[HighWater]

I don't know, as I don't have these books. But even then, if the Deluxe PHB doesn't mention anything, there is no contradiction between RC and the DPHB, the DPHB simply stayed silent in regards to this existing rule. If not, RC is pretty much a useless book (which will really make some people happy, for some reason)

Quick question about the books though. Are they referred to as "Player's Handbook" and "Dungeon Master's Guide" by these names exactly (despite what their cover says)? Because if they aren't, the Primary Sources Rules won't direct you to them, but the original PHB and DMG. Then again, I don't have these books to know if that is the case.


The most recently printed version of the PhB/DMG for 3.5 ARE the deluxe versions, last time I checked, which is why rules primacy directs you to those rather than the Rules Compendium, according to (my understanding of) Curmudgeon's argument, which I admit I'm giving a condensed version of.
To confirm: the most recently printed PHB/DMG do NOT mention "can't evade when there's no room".
The most recently printed PHB/DMG do NOT refer to themselves as "premium", "deluxe" or in any other way differentiate themselves from the older books (outside of printing date and shinyness), except for some hidden updates that there isn't even a published changelog of. (Therefore, the updated PHB is the PHB.) I only noticed I had an updated book when I found out that the Choker-trick people were talking about wouldn't work with the MMI of the same edition because that Choker lost its Quickness.

As for those who think being able to evade a fireball while standing in the blast with nowhere to go is "silly for an Ex": The humble Earth Elemental (even the smallest ones) can swim through solid rock and metal as an Ex. Standing in the middle of a wild blast of fire and emerging unscathed seems fine for the higher CR Rogue... That's definitely not the most ludicrous (Ex) in the Monster Manual. I just can't be bothered to go looking.

Oh and also: half the PCs are able to alter the fabric of the universe itself, why exactly can't the Rogue stand in a Fireball without getting hurt?...
I like Roguespace and I think Rogue's have a tough enough time while having the ability, so...

This was massively off topic. Apologies and return to the Question at Hand!

[(Un)Inspired]

Except that all the pictures of fireball show explosions.

I'd like to think of this as a case of false advertising.

You're wizard goes to the spell store and sees these amazing adverts for this inescapable fireball explosion. Then they cast it and are like, "WTF?!? It's just a bunch of fiery tendrils!"

[Forrestfire]

Personally, I always liked the interpretation that AoE spells that allow Reflex saves work like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQLIaZUOnBU#t=221), allowing the rogue to be badass enough to evade, while others who succeed on the save still get grazed by a bunch of mini-fireballs.