Player VS DM argument: want your opinions.

[Pinkie Pyro]

Simple argument: my player is bitching that I tried to do something with his character (make it so that instead of one journal, he has 3 more organized ones, it was plot important) which was against his back story.

problem: he never gave me his back story in the first place, only a description of his character, and he's saying this is my fault because I didn't ask for a back story. I never do, because I assume if my players don't give me one, they don't have one.

so, who do you think is right?

TLDR;
DM: you should have given me your back story before we started playing.
player: you didn't ask, it's your fault this happened.

EDIT: the rest of my players gave me their back stories without being asked, just for reference.

[Squark]

Simple argument: my player is bitching that I tried to do something with his character (make it so that instead of one journal, he has 3 more organized ones, it was plot important) which was against his back story.

problem: he never gave me his back story in the first place, only a description of his character, and he's saying this is my fault because I didn't ask for a back story. I never do, because I assume if my players don't give me one, they don't have one.

so, who do you think is right?

TLDR;
DM: you should have given me your back story before we started playing.
player: you didn't ask, it's your fault this happened.

Well, you should ask for backstories so they can think about motivations and the like, but on the other hand, creating a backstory and not handing it over is... odd. I mean, DMs should be okaying backstories (within reason, I mean. It's fine to say, "That element of your character is problematic in the campaign," or, "Your character having a direct line to the king's daughter is too powerful," but asking players to tie their stories to specific places or things is fine). Although frankly, I expect every player to have at least a small backstory, so I'm not sure how this situation would have arisen. Given that the game is not collaborative, not competitive, I think DMs should expect players to be transparent in everything they're doing. I mean, if they buy an innocuous item and you think nothing of it only for them to do something completely out of left field with it, that's one thing (TIP: If a player has a long list of utility items for you, ask the player what each of them does and why they want it. You should let the players have those items anyway unless it's for something truly game-breaking or really, really doesn't belong in the setting, but this will let you plan for something that could otherwise throw your for a loop. Of course, memories aren't perfect and sometimes players come up with ideas on the fly, but it's a start). But Backstories, spreadsheets, spellbooks, and character sheets should be shown to the DM for approval and freely accessible to them whenever they ask.

Making specific adjustments to a character like this to enable a plot point after the game has started, however, is problematic. You'll put most players on the defensive, especially since their instincts (or at least mine, and probably a lot of others as well) would indicate you're trying to screw with them, and generally speaking, player's regard their characters as their territory. It would have been better to ask about the journal, and make adjustments to the plot from there.

[Thrudd]

It's best not to make plot based on character backstories, especially if they don't even exist or you don't know them. I would say, if you want to retcon something into a characters' back story, you need the player's permission. If he says no, then figure out something else.

Sorry, if you don't blatantly ask for a backstory, that isn't license to make up whatever you want later to serve your plot. If you wanted something specific in somebody's backstory for your plot, then you should have asked the players to cooperate during character creation.

In general, your mistake is in basing a plot on backstory instead of on information that has been introduced during play. IE, have them find the three part journal and learn through play why it is important.

[Squark]

It's not always a bad idea to use elements from a player's backstory to motivate that character or make the world seem more real, but you have to be careful. Best to collaborate with your players in such things, and recognize if you use kidnappings or murders very often your next party will most likely have no living connection to the world.

[heavyfuel]

I never ask for back stories. Some players don't like them, and that's fine, but he then later complains that I never did anything for his character like a personal quest, he can go play with some other DM. Basically, backstory of a PC is up to the player, not the DM (of course DM purview is necessary still)

[Honest Tiefling]

I could kinda see that since a lot of DMs tend to ignore any backstory given, that he didn't have the idea of handing it over? Even that is kinda a stretch. I think he should have realized something was off when you started the game without his backstory and ask if you wanted to see it, personally. Especially given that making a campaign is very difficult, and some people finalize their characters after the first session.

But I got to ask, how was this plot important? I also suspect he got touchy when his journal was stolen.

[EisenKreutzer]

It's best not to make plot based on character backstories, especially if they don't even exist or you don't know them. I would say, if you want to retcon something into a characters' back story, you need the player's permission. If he says no, then figure out something else.

Sorry, if you don't blatantly ask for a backstory, that isn't license to make up whatever you want later to serve your plot. If you wanted something specific in somebody's backstory for your plot, then you should have asked the players to cooperate during character creation.

In general, your mistake is in basing a plot on backstory instead of on information that has been introduced during play. IE, have them find the three part journal and learn through play why it is important.

This is a very strange opinion to me. The whole point of player backstories should be for the GM to base plots on them. Otherwise they are meaningless.

A good GM always incorporates his players stories into his campaign. Explicitly not doing so is incredibly counter-productive. Character backstories are a gold mine of opportunities and stories, and should always be used. In fact, players should always strive to create backstories filled with plot hooks and ideas for the GM.

If I created a backstory for a character, and the GM ignored it for the entire campaign, I would be very disappointed and annoyed.

[atemu1234]

This is a very strange opinion to me. The whole point of player backstories should be for the GM to base plots on them. Otherwise they are meaningless.

A good GM always incorporates his players stories into his campaign. Explicitly not doing so is incredibly counter-productive. Character backstories are a gold mine of opportunities and stories, and should always be used. In fact, players should always strive to create backstories filled with plot hooks and ideas for the GM.

If I created a backstory for a character, and the GM ignored it for the entire campaign, I would be very disappointed and annoyed.

I think along similar lines, but I tend to think of it as more of a "Roleplaying Anchor" - characters should behave in line with their backstory.

[Pinkie Pyro]

this might clarify things a little:

the plot involved a memory eating beast, one of the clues was meant to be written in the character's journal.

specifically, at the start i had everyone wake up around an oasis, not knowing anything about each other or how they got there, and this player exclaimed "aha! i would write everything down in my journal!". I told him he had four journals, one each for maps, monsters, adventures, and his own personal thoughts, for organization. he said he would combine the last two, I allowed this. he read from the journal, and It explained why they were there and how they had met, but not why they had forgotten everything.

My plan was, after they encountered a new monster, he would write down the details of the new monster in his personal bestiary, and notice the last thing he had written in it was an incomplete sketch of some tentacled creature, the first hint.

we got to that part and the player complained that "I don't keep a separate bestiary, I write everything down in the one journal." I told him that he had separate ones for organization, and he informed me that he would not, due to a detail in his back story.

I asked him "what back story?" and he sent me the little txt doc he had written about his back story, and had not given to me. I told him it was too late for that detail to matter, because he didn't give me his back story prior to the session, and he complained that I hadn't asked for one.

[EisenKreutzer]

I think along similar lines, but I tend to think of it as more of a "Roleplaying Anchor" - characters should behave in line with their backstory.

Oh, definitely! This is another valid reason to have a backstory. I just don't think it is the only reason.

I guess I have seen so many players create backstories as a sort of insurance policy of awesome. Many GMs run their campaigns as their own one man show, not caring about the characters or their stories and only interested in showcasing their own creativity and running the characters through their own plots, shcemes and stories. So players in these games create long, detailed backstories about how awesome their characters are, as an insurance policy against being ignored by the GM. With a long backstory about the past awesome deeds of your character, you are guaranteed to atleast have some awesome validated by the GM, even if it exists only in your own notes, before the GM takes you on a railroad tour of his campaign setting and plot.

I don't particularly like that kind of GMing or playing, so I always encourage my players to give me plot hooks and story opportunities in their backstories so I can incorporate them into my campaign and make the characters awesome in the actual game, not just the nebulous past.

[EisenKreutzer]

this might clarify things a little:

the plot involved a memory eating beast, one of the clues was meant to be written in the character's journal.

specifically, at the start i had everyone wake up around an oasis, not knowing anything about each other or how they got there, and this player exclaimed "aha! i would write everything down in my journal!". I told him he had four journals, one each for maps, monsters, adventures, and his own personal thoughts, for organization. he said he would combine the last two, I allowed this. he read from the journal, and It explained why they were there and how they had met, but not why they had forgotten everything.

My plan was, after they encountered a new monster, he would write down the details of the new monster in his personal bestiary, and notice the last thing he had written in it was an incomplete sketch of some tentacled creature, the first hint.

we got to that part and the player complained that "I don't keep a separate bestiary, I write everything down in the one journal." I told him that he had separate ones for organization, and he informed me that he would not, due to a detail in his back story.

I asked him "what back story?" and he sent me the little txt doc he had written about his back story, and had not given to me. I told him it was too late for that detail to matter, because he didn't give me his back story prior to the session, and he complained that I hadn't asked for one.

What if he has his original journal, but pages are missing?

[Honest Tiefling]

Seems like a minor quibble, doubtful that he's intending anything. I'd toss him a bone, but remain firm that you believe he should have offered the backstory, and that if he wants his backstory to matter he needs to give it over. Go with the far more intelligent person's idea of missing pages to give him the hint regardless.

[OldTrees1]

There was a misunderstanding. There is nothing to be gained from trying to claim the high ground or to make a fight out of what was a reasonable misunderstanding*. The right thing to do in this instance is to talk about why the single journal was important to the backstory and why the 3 journals was important to the plot. From that discussion you might find a 3rd way that satisfies both the backstory and the plot.

In this case there was a single journal and incomplete sketch was the most recent entry(prompting the hint when he next wrote anything in the journal)


*In contrast to your DMing style, I expect my players to have backstories and motivations for their characters regardless of if they share them with me or not. That way the character can show the backstory rather than the player tell the backstory.

[Pinkie Pyro]

In this case there was a single journal and incomplete sketch was the most recent entry(prompting the hint when he next wrote anything in the journal)


Which would have been fine if he had brought it up immediately instead of when i pointed out that he would record the new creature. I had already told him what the last entry in the log journal was, and we had moved on. So I'd either have to retcon everything back to the start of the session, or add "oh, and now you notice that there are torn pages" to the guy with +12 perception at level 1, which would have just lead to more arguments from players...

doesn't matter much, I've already changed the plot, and told him that next time your DM says "you have this" after you get amnesia, don't argue, the DM has a reason for it.

[Red Fel]

this might clarify things a little:

the plot involved a memory eating beast, one of the clues was meant to be written in the character's journal.

specifically, at the start i had everyone wake up around an oasis, not knowing anything about each other or how they got there, and this player exclaimed "aha! i would write everything down in my journal!". I told him he had four journals, one each for maps, monsters, adventures, and his own personal thoughts, for organization. he said he would combine the last two, I allowed this. he read from the journal, and It explained why they were there and how they had met, but not why they had forgotten everything.

My plan was, after they encountered a new monster, he would write down the details of the new monster in his personal bestiary, and notice the last thing he had written in it was an incomplete sketch of some tentacled creature, the first hint.

we got to that part and the player complained that "I don't keep a separate bestiary, I write everything down in the one journal." I told him that he had separate ones for organization, and he informed me that he would not, due to a detail in his back story.

I asked him "what back story?" and he sent me the little txt doc he had written about his back story, and had not given to me. I told him it was too late for that detail to matter, because he didn't give me his back story prior to the session, and he complained that I hadn't asked for one.

Okay. First, my position points: Backstories are great. They help the player visualize his character, they help the DM understand where he's coming from. Working the backstory that you've been given into the campaign is great. It allows the player to feel that his character is important to the plot in more ways than simply as an NPC-killer.
Now, the caveat: After reading your post, here's what I understand happened: The party woke up with amnesia. You told this character that he was keeping four journals. Red Flag the First: If it's plot-important for a PC to do a specific thing, you need to work that out with the player out-of-character. You do not tell a player what his PC has been doing. The party encounters monsters, and you tell him that he enters them in the bestiary. Again, don't tell him what he does. He fails to inform you of his backstory. Okay. This fault probably lies with him.
Short version: The argument you focused on (you asked for a backstory, he failed to provide it) is in your favor. He should have provided the backstory you requested. But that doesn't mean you get to rewrite it or weave it from whole cloth. It's his character. You don't get to write it, even if he failed to do so himself. You don't get to dictate his actions.

[Barbarian Horde]

Misunderstanding from my interpretation. He didnt tell you. You didnt ask. BLah blah blah blah. Get a new pc to take the burden after you ask for everyone's backstory.

[Thrudd]

This is a very strange opinion to me. The whole point of player backstories should be for the GM to base plots on them. Otherwise they are meaningless.

A good GM always incorporates his players stories into his campaign. Explicitly not doing so is incredibly counter-productive. Character backstories are a gold mine of opportunities and stories, and should always be used. In fact, players should always strive to create backstories filled with plot hooks and ideas for the GM.

If I created a backstory for a character, and the GM ignored it for the entire campaign, I would be very disappointed and annoyed.

If the DM asked for back stories, yes , you would expect them to be used in some way. However, this is in no way necessary, and in this case the DM didn't ask for them. Of course, this is a strange situation where the characters are meant to have amnesia, and the DM perhaps expected to reveal their back stories to them during the game.

In my D&D games, I do not recommend more than a few sentences of background. You just need to decide what motivates your character to be an adventurer, and maybe what the nature of their relationship is to the other characters, ( it is assumed they are already together as a party). Anything that takes more than a few minutes is too long, since characters are always rolled up in the presence of the group (and are not guaranteed to survive their first adventure).

If a player were to write an unasked for background story, I would feel no responsibility to use it during the campaign or to place more emphasis on that character than the others.

The players make the story as they play, exploring and interacting with the fantasy world. It is not written beforehand, by them or by me.